[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

Second Harkius · Postby **Second Harkius** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:11 am

Do not spurn them by vanishing again.

Second Harkius · Postby **Second Harkius** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:15 am

Users browsing this forum: Alex, DarthStabber, Spam, zemanjaski and 1 guest

Spurned.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:35 am

So am I the only person that likes Frenzied Goblin?

I'm pretty sure I value it over Denizen atm, if that tells you anything. Haven't tested it, but I consider repeatable Falter effects on creatures to be solid. Especially if you're combining it with something like Hammerhand to really fuck with your opponent's attempts to stem the tide.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:08 am

So am I the only person that likes Frenzied Goblin?
I'm pretty sure I value it over Denizen atm

ATM?

Ass to mouth? Thirst, I never knew.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:53 am

Frenzied Goblin wasn't good enough last season and I don't believe anything has changed to make it better.

MBA is not good either I'm afraid.

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:00 am

The Jeskai Burn deck I made is actually very good(minus treasure cruise).

Show me. I feel like I am going to be forced into a control deck this season and I am not liking it much. Every aggro deck I try keeps running head first into 3 mana 4/4s and 4 mana 4/5s that drain you.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:05 am

I think the only thing keeping frenzied goblin back was Jace and Mutavault. While my deck was different for the WMCQ, I did a lot of testing with frenzied goblin in boss sligh and it was actually a beating. It was just a stone-cold blank vs. jace and you had to get...creative to deal with turn 5/6 mutavaults vs. MBC. Without either card in the format, the card gains a lot I'd say. If the format really is slower, faltering your opponents turn 3/4 play is very strong.

I also think MBA is up in the air. Mogis marauder is theoretically less good, but that card wasn't a linch pin of the deck and Bloodstained brave and Mardu skullhunter are certainly welcome additions. Skull Hunter exacerbates stumbles and brave adds even more resilience to removal(in addition to bestow). The deck was actually very good in the hands of a skilled player assuming you dodged red decks last format. The reason why it may not be great now
considering all the gains is that Sphinx's revelation and pack rat rotated and those where your best matchups. I haven't played with straight MBA, but the version with the red splash was powerful in a BR vamps sort of way.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:06 am

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Magma Jet
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Spray
2 Frontier Bivouac
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Plains
8 Mountain
2 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Mana Confluence

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:08 am

The only thing I don't like about the deck is that the manabase is irrevocably fucked. Unless you cut chained to the rocks, you're stuck playing way to many red sources which takes away from the U and W sources you'd prefer to play. I COULD play temple of enlightenment, but that makes yoru searing bloods much weaker.

Manabase: fucked.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:37 am

Going live, gonna draft some cubes.

http://twitch.tv/gweivyth

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:42 am

Btw, Building control is hard as shit.

BUG: Just no. All the builds look horrible to me. Mostly because The block deck gains nothing from this block because Sultai is Delve focused. Without anything granting inevitability, the deck prefers to be midrange.

Junk: This shard has all the good control cards without having blue which is sure to annoy blue mages. Most everything that the control decks want is just BW, but the Charm, and siege rhino are almost the perfect cards you want. Instant speed divination and a wall that gains you three life? Sweet. You're again though, encouraged to play a midrange game that kills the opponent by the way your cards line up. You do however have the tools to run junk walkers.

Jeskai: Mantis raider and Narset are amazing, Keranos is inevitability, Dig through time isn't rev, but it functions the same way in that they chain well. The problem is that the cheap spells make you just want
to get aggressive. If you're playing lightning strike and mantis rider, why are we trying to extend the game? Lets just kill the fucker. Interestingly enough though, this wedge may make the new Wild Guess playable simply because it's a 2 mana dig spell.

Esper: Esper obv doesn't have support, but as I alluded to earlier, most of the cards you want for control are BW. Sorin, Elspeth, end hostilities, banishing light, maybe brimaz, and removal. With blue, you get 8 fetches for better mana, dissolve, see through depths, and Prog Sphinx which is a fine if uninspired win con.

I think the best bet is either Junk or Esper.

[deck]3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Dissipate
1 Dissolve
2 Dig Through Time
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Despise
2 Thoughtseize
2 Last Breath
1 Jace's Ingenuity
3 End Hostilities
2 Divination
4 Banishing Light
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Temple of Deceit
4
Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
3 Plains
3 Temple of Enlightenment[/deck]

[deck]3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Siege Rhino
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Banishing Light
2 Abzan Charm
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Wingmate Roc

Lands: TBD[/deck]

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:00 am

Sultai is definitely midrange, not control; but you do get to board Negate which is great.

I'm heading back to Pauper; new duals make non-mono colour control playable at last and DEs are back!

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:10 am

Every Bug Deck I've made has at least 3 counterspells in the side yeah. Not sure where I should be at between negate and disdainful stroke.

BUG enchantress keeps looking better and better. I just need to make sure that

A) I actually beat agro as much as I think I do and
B) Hornet queen is castable out of the board and/or if I should just main the card.

TBuzzsaw · Postby **TBuzzsaw** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:44 am

I have this feeling everyone is going to try jumping on the Abzan train the first few weeks and it's going to be the most popular wedge color. I want to play Boss Sligh, but the thought of Rhinos and Sorin makes it a hard choice.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:11 am

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Titan's Strength
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Lightning Strike
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault
19 Mountain
4 Mogis's Warhound
2 Frenzied Goblin

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm

Looks pretty similar to what I built except you found room for Rabblemaster, which I think is a good thing.

I like how bestowing Warhound not only triggers heroic but also Swiftspear.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:18 pm

@LP: Don't understand what Esper control would gain by playing Sorin. Am I missing something?

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:42 pm

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Titan's Strength
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Lightning Strike
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault
19 Mountain
4 Mogis's Warhound
2 Frenzied Goblin

I think this is the most interesting so far of these mono red decks. But I not completely sold on 4 Dragon Mantle. Maybe a splut with Hammerhand?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:47 pm

You need 4 Dragon Mantle. It allows you to run one less land and provides a long term plan for busting through fatties and Caryatid. It also allows you the luxury of sandbagging your other threats in anticipation of a sweeper.

PirateKingAtomsk · Postby **PirateKingAtomsk** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:07 pm

Going to miss Burning Earth against all the tri-color decks that are going to come out.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:58 pm

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Titan's Strength
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Lightning Strike
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Coordinated Assault
19 Mountain
4 Mogis's Warhound
2 Frenzied Goblin

In this kind of shell I've come around to Warhound being much better than War-Name Aspirant. Not only in the obvious ways - bestowing it on a Crusader triggers both it and Swiftspear's prowess - but also in terms of the way the deck wants to play out. On Turn 2 you want to play 2 spells, one of which will trigger either Swiftspear or Crusader. Aspirant wants you to tap out T2 and it gets worse as the game progresses whereas Warhound retains its value longer.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:09 pm

Yeah, I'm actually not very high on Aspirant.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:50 pm

I think Reaper of the Wilds gets much better after rotation. If you're in BGx it should probably be in your list.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2971

Decks I created, better to separate those from here.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:25 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:36 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?

Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:41 pm

0-2 the open. quitting magic. scrump.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:44 pm

What I noticed while building decks that there is shitload of cards I want to play at slot 3 and 4. And not really a lot of options at slot 2. No catch all removal, no awsome creature.

For example I know I want to play Brimaz and Goblin Rabblemaster. If I go Jeskai I have awsome 3rd 3 drop in Mantis Rider. In every deck I would like to have Charm, gods weapon (most cost 3), hall of triumph (cost 3) or solid removal (downfall, oblivion ring)

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:52 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.

It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:52 pm

0-2 the open. quitting magic. scrump.

X-

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:55 pm

/

would drop again

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:00 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.

You are correct.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:01 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah I think it certainly has its place. But in that deck that plays 4x Swiftspear and 4x Akroan Crusader my
assumption is that Warhound is better because on T2 you don't really want to spend all your mana on a 3/2 that won't attack until next turn, especially if you're on the draw and a Caryatid is already on the board. Instead you'll want to play a pump spell and a 1-drop or 2 pump spells or a Dragon Mantle and activate it once, etc. You can cast Warhound as a creature if you have no other T2 play. But it feels like Aspirant gets bad at a quicker rate than Warhound.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:09 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.

I understand, however Marauder would be just chumpblocked, so it doesnt matter.

Slightly better in ideal situation or more
consistent? (Marauder vs Aspirant) or less powerful with distruption (black one).

How would Jeskai Tempo deck looks like? All cards I found are:

1 drops: Firedrinker, Soldier of Pantheon, Magma Spray, Chain to the Rocks
2 drops: Dauntless River Marshal, Akroan Hoplite, War-Name Aspirant, Raise the Alarm, Mogis Warhound, Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, Searing Blood, Negate
3 drops: Brimaz, Mantis Rider, Rabblemaster, Charm, Ascendancy, Winterflame, Pilar of Light, Banishing Light, Dissolve, Devouring Light, Spear, Hammer,
4 drops: Ephara, Purphoros, Ajani, Bident, Chandra, Stoke the Flames, Eidolon of Countless Battles bestow
5 drops: Sakrhan, Stormbreath, Keranos, Aethersprouts

I could see it playing like: playing threat turn 1-2. Removing/countering whatever was cast turn 3-4, and either casting 3 drop with protection or going big with 5.
I am not really sure if going with prowess/heroic would be successful?

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:19 pm

Untuned (obviously) but I do think there's a lot of play to straight Bg with no third color.

[deck]
Creatures - 24
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Reaper of the Wilds

Spells - 13
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
2 Murderous Cut
1 Despise

Land - 23
4 Temple of malady
4 llanowar wastes
2 Jungle Hollow
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
8 Forest
[/deck]

EDIT: I think I want Necropolis Fiend here. Maybe -1 Polukranos, -1 Murderous Cut, +2 Fiend.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:20 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not
mistaken.
Yeah I think it certainly has its place. But in that deck that plays 4x Swiftspear and 4x Akroan Crusader my assumption is that Warhound is better because on T2 you don't really want to spend all your mana on a 3/2 that won't attack until next turn, especially if you're on the draw and a Caryatid is already on the board. Instead you'll want to play a pump spell and a 1-drop or 2 pump spells or a Dragon Mantle and activate it once, etc. You can cast Warhound as a creature if you have no other T2 play. But it feels like Aspirant gets bad at a quicker rate than Warhound.

You're not wrong, but you don't have to play Aspirant on turn 2 either. Or play it on turn 2 anyway and bestow the Warhound on it.

Provided that you can attack to get your counter, a 3/2 with psuedo evasion is very strong.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:22 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not
mistaken.
I understand, however Marauder would be just chumpblocked, so it doesnt matter.

Wut?

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:27 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.[
/quote]
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah I think it certainly has its place. But in that deck that plays 4x Swiftspear and 4x Akroan Crusader my assumption is that Warhound is better because on T2 you don't really want to spend all your mana on a 3/2 that won't attack until next turn, especially if you're on the draw and a Caryatid is already on the board. Instead you'll want to play a pump spell and a 1-drop or 2 pump spells or a Dragon Mantle and activate it once, etc. You can cast Warhound as a creature if you have no other T2 play. But it feels like Aspirant gets bad at a quicker rate than Warhound.
You're not wrong, but you don't have to play Aspirant on turn 2 either. Or play it on turn 2 anyway and bestow the Warhound on it.

Provided that you can attack to get your counter, a 3/2 with psuedo evasion is very strong.
Yep. I had it in my 12 1-drop and tricks list at first. But then I thought more about what that deck WANTS to do on T2 and Aspirant just didn't quite fit. I do think it's still a good card and likely fits into many other red and/or Mardu decks.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:30 pm

I think you're overcomplicating it, bro.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:30 pm

But isn't Aspirant good because it can bypass tokens and caryatids?
Tokens especially. Caryatid just chumpblocks.[/
quote]
It can't be blocked by creatures of power 1 or less. Caryatid can't block it, if I'm not mistaken.
I understand, however Marauder would be just chumpblocked, so it doesnt matter.
Wut?
Marauder is 1/2 for 1R that gets +2/0 when attacking...

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[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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