Dies to Removal

Her comment about the mono red matchup makes no sense...a few burn spells to the face and we're dead.

Umm...I think you need to reread her comment about monored aggro decks.

I can't see other aggro decks such as GW and Monored Aggro having a difficult time against this deck.

My mistake. I read "can" instead of "can't"

The question is: is the specter alone good enough to hold off other aggro decks?

Specter is a FLYING 3/3 body that can't be Doom Bladed or Ultimate Priced. He can be Bile Blighted but at the cost of MBD possibly having to kill their own. He also could let you play cards off the top of your opponents library or just exile things.

2/3*

Fair enough

[deck]Creatures (24)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
3 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder
3 Lifebane Zombie

Spells (13)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price

Lands (23)
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Duress
1 Lifebane Zombie[/deck]

Trying to make the Necromancer work...

So deck would be:

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder

4 Thoughtseize
3 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall

19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

SB:
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
2 Erebos
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Desecration Demon
[/deck]

If we dont like Desecration demons, what would we play? 1 More Lifebane Zombie and 1 more Specter? (Remember both comes vs Gx, Rx and Wx decks)

I'll cut the DD for 1x Lifebane Zombie and 1x Mogis's Marauder which will greatly up your win-rate vs Gx.

Yeah nice idea MDU. Nice to have you here. If I can get cards today will play in tournament.

Be sure to write a detailed report Pedros

Pedros - you def going with Seer over Thrill Kill? Or just testing?

Testing, in some practice games I drew so many cards with pain seer. Also leads to akward position if u do turn 1 seize turn 2 pain seer turn 3 rat with mutavault. Downfal rat or tapped pain seer?

Sounds good, I like MDU's suggestion too. The list is starting to look VERY solid

I don't think you can run Bx Aggro without Pain Seer, your running many non-aggressive cards with any forms of CA.

On that note I think you need 4x Herald of Torment since he will provide most of your damage along with Pack Rat and a lesser extent Lifebane Zombie as well.

Anyhow here was the list I posted many moons ago:

[deck]Black Aggro[/deck]

I still stand by the 6 MD Discard since every deck run non-creatures spells including Gr and Ux Devotion and I really want my Pain Seer and
Pack Rats to get by unmolested, the changes I would make are:

[deck]Black Aggro[/deck]

UWx
In: 2 Erebos, God of the Dead, 2 Duress, 3 Mogis's Marauder
Out: 3 Bile Blight, 2 Ultimate Price, 2 Pack Rat

Bx Devotion
In: 2 Erebos, God of the Dead, 2 Duress, 3 Dark Betrayal
Out: 3 Lifebane Zombie, 4 Hero's Downfall

Gx Devotion
In: 3 Doom Blade, 3 Mogis's Marauder, 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Out: 3
Rakdos Cackler, 1 Duress, 4 Tormented Hero

Ux Devotion
In: 3 Doom Blade, 3 Mogis's Marauder, 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Out: 3 Rakdos Cackler, 1 Duress, 4 Tormented Hero

Disclaimer: I havn't tested the list, so this is all theory crafting.

/Agree MDU This decks plan really is T1 Discard T2 Pain Seer T3 Removal/Pack Rat. 6 Discard makes sense as both the snatching of an answer to Seer/Rat and the spying is essential with such a brittle start.

Why Merchant?

Miss 4rd Lifebane Zombie somewhere, as it is good vs everything that isnt black.

22 or 23 lands?

You have to run 23 lands you have so many 3cc spells, I would most likely cut another Rakdos Cackler for the 4th Lifebane Zombie rather then a land.

I tossed Gary in mainly for the Rx MU, it could be Cure or Whip or Gift of Orzhova.

Man , Duress is interesting, but no Mogis Maruader at all in the maindeck? I have typically always had the midset of game 1- kill them quick so every card in the maindeck should be working towards that mostly. I feel like he is too powerful in a deck like this not to run 2+. Very good vs R/G and Mono Blue and even decent vs control if they tap out for Elspeth.

Now that I think about it....a lot of decks do run non-creatures. Duress/TS are such bad topdecks though.

Going to a PTQ and TCG 1k event this weekend so should have some feedback after that but still tweaking furiously!

Duress/TS topdecks feed Pack Rat really well though.

Fixed that for you.

lol that is true Nate, but I think for me, 4 TS might just be enough , in the maindeck at least.

I would rather have more removal or creatures but I know MDU is very good but after watching him play a lot, we have vastly different styles and such so its no surprise we disagree on this.

Throwing up this article too btw, some good info in here from a really good aggro player

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ack-aggro/

2-2 in event today:

1-2 vs rg monsters, lost game 3 when I kept 3 discard 2 doomblades 1 pack rat 1 swamp on a draw. Didnt draw a single land ang got punished from top of my opponents deck.

2-1 vs rg monsters, lifebane zombie plus pac rats.

2-1 vs mono blue devo, here tormented heros did a job.

0-2 vs rg monsters, game 1 blown up by double witchstalker double rampager. Game 2 seized turn 1 and said : I discard this xenagos but if you draw mana dork turn 1 I am screwed. And it happened so my curve got destroyed and didnt draw a single removal for 6/6 ooze.

Btw his hand: ooze, witchstalker, xenagos 4 lands. I have seize, ultimate price, pain seer lifebane zombie and 3 lands. Seized xenagos, priced dork so he didnt have turn 2 stalker, he placed ooze, I played lifebane taking stalker, his ooze is bigger than everything.

Deck works fun, mogis marauder works perfect with taking out planeswalkers. Pain seer needs
work but it can draw so many cards that imo it is worth it. Singleton whip is very good as we take damage in huge amount, considering 2nd and moving 4rd lifebane to md over something.

Didnt drew a single durres game 1 but I see tit being good. If I want another whip I will have to consider if I want another duress or lifebane. 6 discard seems good thou.

What was your full list Pedros? You mention another whip and I buzzed through a few lists and didn't see the whip present in any of them.

/Agree MDU This decks plan really is T1 Discard T2 Pain Seer T3 Removal/Pack Rat. 6 Discard makes sense as both the snatching of an answer to Seer/Rat and the spying is essential with such a brittle start.

If that's our plan then I don't really see why we're running one-drops at all tbh...

If that's our plan then I don't really see why we're running one-drops at all tbh...

Curve out with creatures = Plan A, Discard into Rats Plan B and Discard into Seer Plan C .

Most games will be focused on the curve and removal, if you get lucky and have the cards for Plan B and C you go for it

Makes sense, thanks for your insights

Is there any way we can fit Mogis and Duress together in the main deck or is it just too crowded?

also, interesting article on black aggro by Conley Woods on CFB: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... new-black/

Makes me want to reconsider Spiteful Returned

Thanks for the link.

Conley is thinking a lot bigger than we are. Curving at 5 rather than 3

I love the gift of orzhova's SB but I don't like his MB, feels like mono B devotion with one drops

I kinda feel like at that point, I'd rather just run MBD

I chose whip and 4rd lifebain over gray merchant/wings from mdu's sb.

Heres the Top4 Super Series deck in Action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaioG_HXEZk

The more I test and the more we discuss, the more I like the Super Series list.

Pedros, I think you are def right with the SCG Open list having too much at 3 mana with the 4-4-4 herald/lifebane/mogis.

[deck]Creatures (24)
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mogis's Marauder
3 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (24)
20 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells (12)
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ultimate Price[/deck]

Thats the super series list.

Can't help but feel like 24 land is just a bit TOO much.

Was thinking swapping 1 Swamp for the 4th Pain Seer.

his sb was

[deck]1 Bile Blight
2 Devour Flesh
1 Lifebane Zombie
4 Duress
3 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Dark Betrayal[/deck]

interestingly, no lifegain

The more I test and the more we discuss, the more I like the Super Series list.

Pedros, I think you are def right with the SCG Open list having too much at 3 mana with the 4-4-4 herald/lifebane/mogis.

<style>.decktbl {border:3px outset #00A3DD; border-radius:2px;} #dk4 td{width:225px;vertical-align:top;border:1px solid #00A3DD; padding:15px;} #dk4 th{text-align:left; color:white; background:#00A3DD; border:3px outset #00A3DD; padding:5px 15px;}</style><table class="decktbl" id="dk4"><tbody><tr><th colspan="2">Deck</th></tr><tr><td><b>Creatures (24)</b>
3 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lifebane Zombie">Lifebane Zombie</a>
2 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mogis's Marauder">Mogis's Marauder</a>
3 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/
Pain Seer">Pain Seer</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rakdos Cackler">Rakdos Cackler</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Pack Rat">Pack Rat</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tormented Hero">Tormented Hero</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Herald of Torment">Herald of Torment</a>

<b>Lands (24)</b>
20 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp">Swamp</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mutavault">Mutavault</a>

</td><td><b>Spells (12)</b>
3 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Bile Blight">Bile Blight</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hero's Downfall">Hero's Downfall</a>
4 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
1 <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ultimate Price">Ultimate Price</a></td></
tr></tbody></table>

Thats the super series list.

Can't help but feel like 24 land is just a bit TOO much.

Was thinking swapping 1 Swamp for the 4th Pain Seer.

a second ultimate price would be good too.

lol what the fraglerock happened to that quote

Here is where I am at right now


[deck]Creatures (25)
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (23)
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells (12)
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ultimate Price

Sideboard (15)
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Devour Flesh
4 Dark Betrayal
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Lifebane Zombie
3 Duress
1 Mogis's Maruader[/deck]

just very slight tweaks to Super Series list

I have been brewing a lot and maybe the list I came up with doesn't fit in this thread but that's where it started so I'll post it here later tonight.

Here is where I am at right now


[deck]Creatures (25)
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (23)
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells (12)
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
1 Ultimate Price

Sideboard (15)
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Devour Flesh
4 Dark Betrayal
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Lifebane Zombie
3 Duress
1 Mogis's Maruader[/deck]

just very slight tweaks to Super Series list

Sweet list, too bad we have to give up the extra ultimate price and the doom blades sb tho

You can find room for them.

Could cut 1 Dark Betrayal, 1 Whip, 1 Mogis, 1 Lifebane.

The rest I think is pretty set in stone.

Yea idk Devour Flesh might be better than DB utility-wise anyhow

Did a PTQ today but because of snow, it got cancelled after 5 rounds and we got our money back.

About 250 people.

I was 4-1 when it ended.

Played U/W control then 4 Mono Black Devotion in a row. Lost to one of them.

Well done dpaine Shame it got cancelled after such a good start.