Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[Link]

well I don't want to be too town this early because I don't want to get crosskilled so...

/lurk

[Link]

damn I lied... its WAY too scummy

Unvote:
Vote: Void

[Wraith223]

Damn Zem. Off and running to stir the pot with traps. Good job.

- edit -

Zem plays really consistent, thus watching for scum tells will be very hard.

Now you're a fan of my style? You've not had much good to say about it in other games (this is our 3rd). Why the change of heart?

It works regardless how I feel about it. It's to much yabba yabba, but you can't argue with the results.

[imopen2]

Damn Zem. Off and running to stir the pot with traps. Good job.

- edit -

Zem plays really consistent, thus watching for scum tells will be very hard.

Now you're a fan of my style? You've not had much good to say about it in other games (this is our 3rd). Why the change of heart?

It works regardless how I feel about it. It's to much yabba yabba, but you can't argue with the results.

You mean how he is a scum suspect in every game he plays and gets day killed a lot? Great results...

[Wraith223]

Damn Zem. Off and running to stir the pot with traps. Good job.

- edit -

Zem plays really consistent, thus watching for scum tells will be very hard.

Now you're a fan of my style? You've not had much good to say about it in other games (this is our 3rd).
Why the change of heart?

It works regardless how I feel about it. It's to much yabba yabba, but you can't argue with the results.

You mean how he is a scum suspect in every game he plays and gets day killed a lot? Great results...

Again, pure commentary but a true read. You looking to get rid Zem?
Getting people to talk more is a great risk but pays off if survivors utilize the information properly.

[zemanjaski]

My being day killed says a lot more about the clowns wielding guns than it does about me.

[zemanjaski]

well I don't want to be too town this early because I don't want to get crosskilled so...

/lurk

Crosskilled?

Unvote

[zemanjaski]

You're not normally so snarky imopen2. What's up?

[Wraith223]

Wall of text incoming!

G_R has been posting shit finally and it looks weird. My gut is talking again but it's weak. My break downs of Posts that caught me eye.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175590#p175590:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:54 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz]Mandatory [b:3k6utmzz]vote Stardust[/b:3k6utmzz].

Manders![/quote:3k6utmzz]

So this starts off as being normal G_R MO.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175641#p175641:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:48 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175610#p175610:3k6utmzz]zemanjaski » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:33 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz][b:3k6utmzz]Unvote, Vote G_R[/b:3k6utmzz]

You've activated my trap
card.[/quote:3k6utmzz]
I saw your vote. Didn't care. I RSV Stardust every game, not you. [/quote:3k6utmzz]

He sees Zem is fishing. Throws ball back in Zems court to perry "trap". Fine so far.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175681#p175681:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:58 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175668#p175668:3k6utmzz]Stardust » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:47 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz]
How is that a trap? Tell me what you thought Z was thinking.[/quote:3k6utmzz]
It's how I saw it. I came here with the intention of RSV voting you as a tradition I'm trying to initiate. Saw you already had a RSV vote, shrugged, and voted anyway. Next thing I know, zem seems to be drifting away from RSV by saying that my only action (voting for you) activated his "trap card" and I
also noticed he was the one voting for you earlier.

You're not ignoring me at all. [/quote:3k6utmzz]

G_R attempting to use reason! Now he sees that Zem is looking for an easy bandwagon and gets defensive. Now I am intrigued. Why? He really wanted to rid Stardust and does not want to go after Zem. Is this scum team one bumping into scum team 2? (not flavor gaming as this will happen with 2 scum teams). He is really backpeddling saying that his vote was his own but band wagoned anyway. I see a conflicted purpose here in writing. The last sentence is a throw off to desensitize the situation of the conflict with emotion.

[quote="[url=http://diestoremoval.com/
viewtopic.php?p=175699#p175699:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:19 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz]


Trap card comment seems to come from a town mindset, so I decided to act on what I considered scummy first, then acknowledge other guy's scum hunting. Then I got reminded that I have a gentelmen's agreement with 'Dust to hold our reads of each other till at least day two (or longer, if appropriate)*.

[size=85:3k6utmzz]*: This comes from several games where we have both been town and pushed for each other's lynch. Worked wonders last game, where I had strong scum reads on him, yet he once again turned out to be town.[/size:3k6utmzz] [/quote:3k6utmzz]

Now he gives Zem a quick nod of "good boy" for his trap work. He never gave any kudos last game. My gut is growling now. He wanted to vote Stardust and now
backs out on a random agreement I have never heard of or seen. Stardust only gives a smile and now their is an agreement? That's BS. In the second sentence G_R claims scum hunting with Stardust but it did no good. That is a strong back peddle if I have ever seen one. He follows up that it did not work. That is supposed to help town or make us feel good? Sounds like fluff to me to unseat any notions of scum reads.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175704#p175704:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:21 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz]I don't English well, I must be scum every game.[/quote:3k6utmzz]

This is kind of a red haring as his language is fine and better than last game by miles. Now he is placing joke false leading claims that he must be scum every game. He is attacking your judgement with play known false claims. I see it as desensitizing.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=175705#p175705:3k6utmzz]( G_R ) » Fri
Jan 17, 2014 11:22 am[/url:3k6utmzz]":3k6utmzz]It's getting really old, I'm totes lurking every day 1 from now on. [/quote:3k6utmzz]

I have no idea why anyone would say this. I fucking hate the word "totes" as it a poor language disaster, but that is not reason I am doing this read on G_R. He says he will lurk day 1. He knows folks on here hunt lurkers. Stupid statement or it is counter trapping. I see it as a poor thought out post that is telling of his error to just ignore Zem's trap or go after Zem as a perry instead.
This my read so far. I really don't have anything on Iamopen2 as usual cause he posts fairly clean except for claims. Indeed Zem, he is being snarky, but is that a tell? IDK THUS...

[b:3k6utmzz]Unvote, Vote G_R[/b:3k6utmzz]

[zemanjaski]

What is a "perry trap"?

[Wraith223]

What is a "perry trap"?

I don't believe I said "perry trap". Counter trap is what I said. Perry vote or claim makes sense, but and offensive action should be labeled counter attack/trap. The perry denotes a block of sorts to an attacking claim or trap. I use the term perry from fencing. Forgive me if it is confusing.

See you all tomarrow!

[zemanjaski]

Ah OK, its spelled "parry".

Thanks.

[Manders]

Jeez, you guys talk a lot.

First, Hi, Wraith! Nice to meet you as well.

Hi, Void!!

So, preliminary thoughts:
GR's hard to read, but I'm not convinced he's scum.
Stardust has a tendency to be absentminded sometimes, so I'll ignore his "I'm a cop" in a game where we KNOW there's no cop. He's either being absentminded...or trying to throw people off and fish for responses. Neither is inherently scummy.
Wraith is scumhunting. I believe he's wrong about GR, but his post is 100% scumhunting, so he is my first true town read.
No one else has pinged anything.

Furthermore, I didn't read the OP, so I didn't notice the mod color thing. I could be a bitch and point out that I used a DIFFERENT shade of purple (and I really do always use purple for votes/notes to the mod), but I'll just pick another color.

Unvote Void

[zemanjaski]

SD's day cop comment was a joke. SD was referencing a game the some of us (SD, wraith, G_R, imopen2, myself, maybe someone else I am missing) played where I fake claimed day cop in RVS to screw with some of the others.

[zemanjaski]

I don't like Wraith's conclusions, but more important than conclusions right now is intent, and I would agree with Manders that Wraith has clearly demonstrated a Town mindset.

[Jack]

I feel that Wraith based his read off of jokes that G_R made that he took seriously.
Wraith: G_R and Stardust mentioned their agreement multiple times during DTR mafia. That isn't some new agreement that they made when they found out they were on the same scum team.



And just something for everyone in this game to keep in mind: every player has a reason to hunt scum. Don't call someone out as mafia because they fail to hunt scum or clear someone because they put effort into finding scum.

[Jack]

unvote

[zemanjaski]

And just something for everyone in this game to keep in mind: every player has a reason to hunt scum. Don't call someone out as mafia because they fail to hunt scum or clear someone because they put effort into finding scum.

I think both of those are good alignment indicators when examining newer players. What would you suggest then? How do you envision finding scum?

[Jack]

Mostly by looking at player associations, I'd think. I can definitely see where this is a harder game, both for the town and the mafias. The mafias each have a harder victory condition, since they must get the other team killed as well as seven townies, and pretty much can't afford to lose a man, since it makes winning much harder. It is also harder for town, since the scum will be scum hunting as well and we only have 1 power role.

[zemanjaski]

That's a good observation, and I like looking at alignments as well (more so a few days in though when it is more clear).

From a game theory perspective, there been three factions offers up some interesting discussion points. Obviously, Town would prefer the Mafia to kill each other early; that's a given. Ideally we want to wipe out an entire faction (fire or ice) before targeting the second; reducing the number of NKs available I think has to benefit Town.

Looking back, I like imopen2's posts the least, so

Vote imopen2

[zemanjaski]

Further to our discussion freedom; it should come as no surprise to anyone that one of my favourite indicators is "activity level". I think that it is hard for inexperienced scum to maintain a decent level of activity, without resorting to "content-lite" filler posts. See ham in DTR-mafia for a perfect example. However, I am finding that increasingly I cannot rely on this indicator as the DTR meta seems to encourage lurking as either faction.

[Captain Murphy]

unvote

I think the important thing is not to getting too bogged down in silly things like a trap card comment of stardust being a cheeky joker claiming cop. I think finding connections between players is going to be key.

I think there needs to be a discussion closer to the end of the day deciding the 3 best doc choices so it isn't plundered on one of the 4 scum or someone who might not be supporting the town.

[Link]

dont tell me I have to explain what crosskills are >_>

[zemanjaski]

Yup, mafia scrub here.

[Link]

hot mafia on mafia crime

[zemanjaski]

well I don't want to be too town this early because I don't want to get crosskilled so...

/lurk

Alight then, i'll play.

Unvote, Vote Fate.

[Manders]

And just something for everyone in this game to keep in mind: every player has a reason to hunt scum. Don't call someone out as mafia because they fail to hunt scum or clear someone because they put effort into finding scum.

There's more to it than just "he scumhunted," but that I'll keep to myself. But, you are correct, and as z said, everyone in the game will be legitimately scumhunting.

Looking back, I like imopen2's posts the least, so

Vote imopen2

What don't you like about his posts?

unvote

I think the important thing is not to getting too bogged down in silly things like a trap card comment of stardust being a cheeky joker claiming cop. I think finding connections between players is going to be key.

I think there needs to be a discussion closer to the end of the day deciding the 3 best doc choices so it isn't plundered on one of the 4 scum or someone who might not be supporting the town.

Oh ho ho!

Vote: Captain Murphy

Who can tell me why I just voted him?

Yup, mafia scrub here.

Jesus, Fate, don't bog up the game with bullshit.

What he means,
z, which has already been discussed in a previous post (either here or in the signups) is that, if both mafia teams decide to kill the same person, their kills will fail.

[Link]

no I meant I don't want the other scumteam to NK me


truce Ice Mafia?

[zemanjaski]

Town would be very happy for the NK to fail, Fate Y U SO SCUM?

@ Manders, having played with imopen2, his style of posting so far is consistent with his scum game. I am content with my vote remaining here for now.

[zemanjaski]

@ Manders. You voted Murphy because he is deducing info that will benefit the scum team's NK actions. Do you thik Murphy is scum?

[zemanjaski]

LOL

Missed your vote on Murphy, Manders, disregard my question then. Painkillers limit my already poor reading skills.

[Wraith223]

Until G_R posts a response, I am not dropping my vote. I forgot about the Agreement on the sign ups. Although, he made those odd comments and got defensive about it. I still think its a good read until he posts back.

Captain Murphy seems to be minimizing my read and coming to the aid of G_R. Hmmmmmm. Manders is on to something.

Dropping Suga is seriously lurking with one post.
Void is lurking as well but has posted. Not much though.
Where the hell is Rez?

[imopen2]

Unvote

Vote: Murphy

Fishing for the doc target is a big no no in this setup. You're a much better player than that, Murphy.

[Jack]

Vote Murphy.

[Wraith223]

Wow, Captain Murphy wants to Doc hunt. WTF? Just....WHAT?

Still waiting for G_R, and if he responds good; I will immediately vote C.P.. What a poor notion to event present.

[Wraith223]

Edit- "even present". damn ipad.

[Jack]

It's not that he wants to doc hunt, it's that he wants us to come up with a list of the players we think the mafias would want to NK. This would benefit nobody but the mafias and the doctor, but the doctor should be making these decisions for himself.

[Link]

Town would be very happy for the NK to fail, Fate Y U SO SCUM?

@ Manders, having played with imopen2, his style of posting so far is consistent with his scum game. I am content with my vote remaining here for now.

No you misunderstand.

1. I didn't know the kill failed if thye both used it on a townie (never heard of that mechanic, usually its just scum are immune to each others? I skimmed through the set-up readings not my thing.)

2. I didn't want to be killed by either team because I have this bad record of dying N1 every game I play and never getting to contribute.


But now that I know I can go full blast town mode and the scum have to gamble which one will deal with me fuck lurking.

[Link]

SO HERES MY THOUGHTS:

I haven't played legitimate forum mafia in some time. I usually play on mafiascum where my meta is so established that my mere presence in the game gets reactions for me to read, I don't actually need to effort in those games.

I don't really have enough experience on this site to establish history and meta reads on people, hence my shitbad play in Crosstown where I literally was not reading the game. I DID think Kaze was scum D1, but I eventually let my gut get overrun by his bullshi and backed down....

Not making that mistake this game. Void pings my gut super hard and he's disappeared.

Now this Murphy issue.... see I agree his plan is borderline retarded and anti-town.... but I don't know enough of him to know what kinda move that is. Is he scum being bold as fuck? Is he misguided town?

We're not doing his plan, that's for sure, but do we need to auto-lynch him as a response?

I
definitely don't like freedom or imopens votes for starts, so I'm leaning no (I realize its multiball so scummy votes can be on other scum but still rather stick to Void at this time)

[Link]

It's not that he wants to doc hunt, it's that he wants us to come up with a list of the players we think the mafias would want to NK. This would benefit nobody but the mafias and the doctor, but the doctor should be making these decisions for himself.

shallow goddamn analysis

freedom don't be scum thats internally inconsistent with your values