Dies to Removal

Hello everyone,

Thanks again for the welcomes here. As I mentioned in my introduction, I attended my first SCG IQ running mono red (3 - 0 first three rounds, then lost the last 3, for a 3 - 3 finish). After the tournament, I've decided to -2 Seismic Stomp and move to SB, +2 Goblin Shortcutter and bring some more consistency with the full play set as the shortcutter turned out to be a great asset throughout the day. Moreover, after reading hamfactorial's awesome post about the hypergeometric distribution and crunching some numbers in my own excel spreadsheet, I've decided to -1 Mountain down to 16, and with the extra slot +1 Legion Loyalist for the full play set.

Anyway, I would love to hear any recommendations you may have to improving this to a Tier 1 Deck:

[
deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (32)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter

Spells (12)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
16 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Electrickery
2 Seismic Stomp
3 Skullcrack
1 Smelt
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]

My sideboard is new after reading more from John at Red Deck Winning about Chained to the Rocks. Not sure if this is enough dual land (4) to make it work with 3 Chained to the Rocks, or should I drop to 2? I was thinking of keeping 2 Electrickery for Master of Waves and [card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card] (originally had 3), and keeping 3 Skullcrack v. UW and 1 Smelt for dealing with [card]Whip of
Erebos[/card]. Also, any thoughts on using Sacred Foundry, rather than Temple of Triumph? I feel like Sacred Foundry would be more consistent, so that is probably the better move with a fast deck, but then Temple of Triumph does offer the scry.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
-shortcutter

If you want to run Chained, you NEED at least 8 dual lands (temples + foundries). I can speak from experience that you'll often be starved for white sources if you run any less. Your version (which is similar to Tom Ross's Boss Sligh build) is pretty basic: do or die. You don't need chained to the rocks at all, because if you ever arrive at a point where you do think: oh CttR would have saved my ass here, chances are you'd still have lost if you did have it.

Thank you Tyrael, I appreciate the feedback on the dual lands. I guess I have some thinking to do if I want to keep CttR in the sideboard. I'll have to do some more testing and see if the two additional Goblin Shortcutters do the trick. Also, you're right I have seen Tom Ross's Boss Sligh list and it is similar; just no Firefist Striker and shortcutters.

Again, thank you for the guidance.

Well in my continued testing tonight in a number of rounds Goblin Shortcutter is just closing out games for me, especially if i have a Firefist Striker already in play. I'm very happy that I went with the full play set right now. Also, after losing a game 2 to monoB, I sided in the 4 Temple of Triumph and the 3 Chained to the Rocks and took care of his Desecration Demon with CttR, played around his removal and eventually got him.

I'm still thinking about -1 Legion Loyalist going back to what i originally had in my IQ and wondering if anyone has suggestions on what to add for the 60th card?

Thinking of +1 Magma Jet…just for a bit more burn, and scry ability. Any thoughts?

Also, still figuring out how
to add in Sacred Foundry if I want to keep CttR. Maybe just main board the play set?

Decided to update my deck and -1 Legion Loyalist and +1 Magma Jet. I figure after a bit more of play testing if I find I'm running into mana problems I can always change it out with Shock


[deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (31)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter

Spells (13)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills
1 Magma Jet
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
16 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Electrickery
2 Seismic Stomp
3 Skullcrack
1 Smelt
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]

Have since decided to -1 Magma Jet and +1 Shock in the 60th card slot due to the mana cost. Also, decided to +1 Smelt in the sideboard due to Whip of Erebos and -1 Seismic Stomp. Thinking of dropping the Seismic Stomp for a Pithing Needle. Also, just ordered 4 Sacred Foundry to main board for Chained to the Rocks later.

[deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (31)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter



Spells (13)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills
1 Shock
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
2
Electrickery
1 Seismic Stomp
3 Skullcrack
2 Smelt
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]

Any comments appreciated.

Is splashing white really worth all the trouble, just to have use of 3 Chained to the Rocks? I feel like if you wanted to splash a color, you'd want to splash black to gain use of Spike Jester or something, along with the black removal like Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, and Dark Betrayal. That would also open you up to using dreadbore.

This is, of course, if it's even worth it to splash a color at all, when the deck is so all-in. I believe that Mizzium Mortars would be a useful replacement for what you're using CttR for. It also has the benefit of possible late game overloaded blowouts.


I think you should run Seismic Stomp main board, and add 1 pithing needle into the side. Maybe drop Titans Strength and Foundry Street Denizen. FSD's only purpose here is to be played turn 1, followed by a couple BTE's and a Madcap skills
or Titans Strength. I get the feeling that doesn't happen often enough for him to really be worth it, but I could be wrong since I'm just theory-crafting here.

If you're going to play Titans Strength and Foundry Street Denizen, why not play Akroan Crusader? Otherwise, I feel like there are better options.


Just so you know, I'm not entirely negative. There are things I like about your deck, and it gives me a couple ideas of my own, but I'm not sure if your deck does anything any better than Tom Ross's build, which I'll post here just for comparative reasons, and I like to see things side by side.

[deck]
Creatures - 27
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Akroan Crusader
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Ash Zealot
3x Arena Athlete
Spells - 16
4x Dragon Mantle
4x Madcap Skills
4x Lightning Strike
4x Titan's Strength
Lands - 17
17x Mountain
Sideboard - 15
1x Pithing Needle
1x Nivmagus Elemental
1x Coordinated Assault
4x
Shock
4x Peak Eruption
4x Skullcrack
[/deck]

If you want to play Akroan Crusader, you need to play 4 Dragon Mantle, too. And if you are in topdeck mode, this is not something you want to see if you have very few creatures on the board.
Due to the very bad MonoBlue MatchUp, The Boss came up with the idea of splashing green for Skylasher. Check it out: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27 ... Blitz.html

I played his MonoR heroic for 2 FNMs, going 3-1 on my second tournament ever.
Right now, I am building a MonoR Deck for a (Neewbie-)friend, and i decided for going the nonHeroic Route, because i think it is easier to play and you have less dead draws in topdeck mode. Only nonCreatures Mainboard are going to be Lighting Strike and Madcap Skills. If i didnt forget something.
Gonna play Rubblebelt Maaka over Titans Strength, because you can
hardcast it.

Will post the List as soon as i have roughly shaped it. (Can i say it in English like that? )

E: Due to the lack of Ash Zealots, i have to use Shock and Seismic Stomps.

Jasper and TheCleaner, thank you very much for the comments. You bring up some great points.

Is splashing white really worth all the trouble, just to have use of 3 Chained to the Rocks? I feel like if you wanted to splash a color, you'd want to splash black to gain use of <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Spike Jester">Spike Jester</a> or something, along with the black removal like Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, and Dark Betrayal. That would also open you up to using <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/dreadbore">dreadbore</a>.

I've been doing some thinking about this and still feel Chained to the Rocks is worthwhile with such large creatures in the game right now (Desecration Demon, Polukranos, World Eater, etc). Also, with running only 16 land, I feel the
one mana for CttR is a great value right now.

This is, of course, if it's even worth it to splash a color at all, when the deck is so all-in. I believe that <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mizzium Mortars">Mizzium Mortars</a> would be a useful replacement for what you're using CttR for. It also has the benefit of possible late game overloaded blowouts.

Great point, I've decided to sideboard in 3 Mizzium Mortars (I lose out to Pithing Needle though unless I drop it to 2). My only concern is that with only 16 lands, I will rarely have 6 on the table, and if I am ever at the point where I can overload Mizzium Mortars I've most likely lost already because I'm flooding out and can't stay aggressive. But regardless of the overload ability (which is icing on the cake), I think you're right, as I do need to keep at least a couple in the sideboard for Blood Baron of Vizkopa,
etc.

I think you should run Seismic Stomp main board, and add 1 pithing needle into the side. Maybe drop Titans Strength and Foundry Street Denizen. FSD's only purpose here is to be played turn 1, followed by a couple BTE's and a Madcap skills or Titans Strength. I get the feeling that doesn't happen often enough for him to really be worth it, but I could be wrong since I'm just theory-crafting here.

If you're going to play Titans Strength and Foundry Street Denizen, why not play <a href="http://deckbox.org/mtg/Akroan Crusader">Akroan Crusader</a>? Otherwise, I feel like there are better options.

I will definitely think about Akroan Crusader. I do like that Denizen can plus up to trade with Mutavault, etc. which has worked well for me in the past. I may have to test out Akroan.

Also, I will keep Seismic Stomp in the sideboard at least (as I think it is my only real answer for dealing with a heavy hexproof deck; as I want to continue
with my dodge and pump strategy with Madcap Skills, Titan's Strength, Firefist Striker, Goblin Shortcutter. With that said, I'm currently testing -1 Shock and +1 [c}Rubblebelt Maaka[/c] for the 60th card, just to add a bit more for this strategy.

If you want to play Akroan Crusader, you need to play 4 Dragon Mantle, too. And if you are in topdeck mode, this is not something you want to see if you have very few creatures on the board.
Due to the very bad MonoBlue MatchUp, The Boss came up with the idea of splashing green for Skylasher. Check it out: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27 ... Blitz.html

I played his MonoR heroic for 2 FNMs, going 3-1 on my second tournament ever.
Right now, I am building a MonoR Deck
for a (Neewbie-)friend, and i decided for going the nonHeroic Route, because i think it is easier to play and you have less dead draws in topdeck mode. Only nonCreatures Mainboard are going to be Lighting Strike and Madcap Skills. If i didnt forget something.
Gonna play Rubblebelt Maaka over Titans Strength, because you can hardcast it.

TheCleaner, thanks for the advice on this. It's always a tough call on Rubblebelt Maaka v. Titan's Strength. I've been loving the scry ability with Titan's Strength so will be sticking with that for now. But I have decided to +1 Rubblebelt Maaka.

So, if I stick with CttR in my sideboard then it's looking like this:

4 Temple of Triumph
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Smelt

Unless I main board Seismic Stomp in place in of Lightning Strike and expect to race every game to the finish and not
worry about removing the smaller creatures; which I've been testing out a bit; then I won't have much room for Mizzium Mortars.

Current testing (-4 Lightning Strike, +4 Seismic Stomp; -1 Scock, +1 Rubblebelt Maaka):

[deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (31)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter



Spells (13)
4 Seismic Stomp
4 Madcap Skills
1 Rubblebelt Maaka
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Smelt
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]

Is this too many Seismic Stomp? I'll have to do some more testing…

Thanks again for the comments!

I'd say that you'd want to only run 1 or 2 Seismic Stomp mainboard, with none in the side. This is because SS should be a card that you draw into, not start the game with. You want to topdeck a SS when you have a decent field presence already as it will often win games like that.

You'll want to keep the Lightning Strikes in the main, as these can go to the dome, and also allow Ash Zealot to trade up with larger creatures.

Other than that, your list looks decent.

Thanks Jasper. I've noticed 4 SS is too much main deck. I've already -2 and +2 Lightning Strike. Actually I'll -1 the Rubblebet Maaka and +1 more for Lightning Strike, totaling 3. Will see how that goes.

Thanks again for the feedback!

^I would have made those changes as well.

Thanks Platypus.

Updated deck list:

[deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (31)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter



Spells (13)
3 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills
2 Seismic Stomp
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Smelt
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]

Interesting after all this play testing, the only changes main deck (with exception of swapping out for Sacred Foundry) from my IQ deck are:

-1 Mountain
-1 Lightning Strike
+2 Goblin Shortcutter

I like the idea with sbding in Chained and Temples, although im not sure if that takes up too much space from your sideboard. If you splash white, why not splash green too, so you can play Dryad Militant, too? Decent OneDrop, i think:)

Hi TheCleaner,

Thanks for the comments. You bring up a great point about that Temples; something that I've been thinking about the past couple of days as well. I recently dropped to 2 Temples, so when I side in the 3 Chained, I need to see if having 6 dual lands will be enough. That would leave me with 2 open slots for the sideboard.

Currently thinking about:
2 Revoke Existence, or
2 Electrickery

If I go with Revoke Resistance, which I have added in (just haven't tested yet), that could probably replace Smelt all together and let me side in Electrickery. Thinking I'll give this a test:

Updated Sideboard:

3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Electrickery
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Revoke Existence
3 Skullcrack
2 Temple of Triumph[/
c]

Any thoughts on the 6 Plains total for the 3 CttR?

Any thoughts on the 6 Plains total for the 3 CttR?

6 white sources gives you just under 60% chance of seeing at least 1 in your first 8 cards, 75% to see it in your first 12 (Realistically the game won't go much longer than that with your list, or you probably just loose). However with only 3 chained to go with those, it leaves you with only a 37,3% chance of being able to cast chained by turn 5 (12 cards assuming on the draw). Is this good enough to splash for? I wouldn't do it, but I'm by no means an expert deck builder. Therefore I'll stick with just giving you the numbers and leaving the decision to you.

hoeiberg - thank you for bringing me back to the hypergeometric distribution. I guess I should have ran those numbers by now You're right about looking at the numbers. I didn't even think about it yesterday, but just the fact that I'm swapping out Smelt for Revoke Existence I will definitely want to run all 4 Temples.

Thanks!

With updated test sideboard:

[deck=Red Dodge & Pump]Creatures (31)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Legion Loyalist
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Shortcutter



Spells (13)
3 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills
2 Seismic Stomp
4 Titan's Strength

Lands (16)
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Revoke Existence
3 Skullcrack
4 Temple of Triumph

[/deck]