Open Site Blathering (formerly Advice from iridium ITT)

Shalako · Postby **Shalako** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:36 am

Well am I good or am I not?

Col. Khaddafi · Postby **Col. Khaddafi** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:37 am

We need posts in appeals because that is our process, but if you go back through everything that I have said I never asked for anyone to apologize (I don't think I have since I don't believe in force apologies). Others have, but I have 2 young kids and know enough from them that saying "Say you are sorry" means "Show that you submit to my authority and will make an insincere gesture to your brother.&
quot; I mean, I suppose others might want it and for them I guess they should come here and take a knee or whatever, but I don't care if you are "sorry" only that you are looking for long term solutions and aren't harboring malice that shows up on the website I work for. Grovel to someone else
(Is it really supposed to take clicking Submit 4 times to post here? Is that in my settings?)
So if you guys are not looking for apologies, why do we have to appeal again? that doesn't make sense.
I can't speak for others but I need something that shows you want to be on the site for what it has to offer and not because you want to crusade. Other might want apologies, but I just want people not to cause trouble.

The point is I have already made a detailed post ITT (and I'm sure every single staff member who is invested on "solving" these issues has read
it ITT too) mentioning we'd be willing bygones be bygones if we were to be unbanned and that speaking for myself I would have no particular incentive to be a "troublemeaker" or "rabble-rouser" (as you put it), and if I were to humor some of you guys on staff by making an appeal on the MTGS cave, I'd repost exactly this.

So again, if we are looking towards the future instead of the past, and if the idea is moving beyond apologies, finger pointing at who was ultimately responsible of all he bad that occurred to our community in the past 6months, what is the point of you guys not budging about the necessity to make an appeal in private if it isn't precisely for doing what you mentioned is unnecessary: groveling to the staff and being humiliated on a hidden corner of MTGS.

Surely you understand where I'm coming from.

Sir Sapphire the 3rd · Postby **Sir Sapphire the 3rd** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:11 am

Tango down.

Your fucked sir.

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:13 am

Well am I good or am I not?

I can't answer that as it's not my sole decision.

The point is I have already made a detailed post ITT (and I'm sure every single staff member who is invested on "solving" these issues has read it ITT too) mentioning we'd be willing bygones be bygones if we were to be unbanned and that speaking for myself I would have no particular incentive to be a "troublemeaker" or "rabble-rouser" (as you put it), and if I were to humor some of you guys on staff by making an appeal on the MTGS cave, I'd repost exactly this.
n
So again, if we are looking towards the future instead of the past, and if the idea is moving beyond apologies, finger pointing at who was ultimately responsible of all he bad that occurred to our community in the past 6months, what is the point of you guys not budging about the necessity to make an appeal in private if it isn't precisely for doing what you mentioned is unnecessary: groveling to the staff and being humiliated on a hidden corner of MTGS.

Surely you understand where I'm coming from.

I very much do understand where you are coming from. I am also much more concerned about the future than the past, but people are looking at your past to determine future actions. Frankly, there have been more than a few times where your previous actions have made my jaw drop. I can move on though but what happens the first time you don't like something on the site? How many mods do I lose? This might seem like dramatics, but it's not. People quit over this stuff. Unbanning you will likely cause 1-2 people to quit too. It will cause a fight amongst the mods and will likely piss off a lot of regular members.

So, while I have my own hair-brained ideas about how to run a reasonably large online forum I have to factor in as many things as I can and right now there are a lot of things surrounding this.

Tango down.
Your fucked sir.

*You're

Col. Khaddafi · Postby **Col. Khaddafi** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:26 am

The point is I have already made a detailed post ITT (and I'm sure every single staff member who is invested on "solving" these issues has read it ITT too) mentioning we'd be willing bygones be bygones if we were to be unbanned and that speaking for myself I would have no particular incentive to be a "troublemeaker" or "rabble-rouser" (as you put it), and if I were to humor some of you guys on staff by making an appeal on the MTGS cave, I'd repost exactly this.

So again, if we are looking towards the future instead of the past, and if the idea is moving
beyond apologies, finger pointing at who was ultimately responsible of all he bad that occurred to our community in the past 6months, what is the point of you guys not budging about the necessity to make an appeal in private if it isn't precisely for doing what you mentioned is unnecessary: groveling to the staff and being humiliated on a hidden corner of MTGS.

Surely you understand where I'm coming from.
I very much do understand where you are coming from. I am also much more concerned about the future than the past, but people are looking at your past to determine future actions. Frankly, there have been more than a few times where your previous actions have made my jaw drop. I can move on though but what happens the first time you don't like something on the site? How many mods do I lose? This might seem like dramatics, but it's not. People quit over this stuff. Unbanning you will
likely cause 1-2 people to quit too. It will cause a fight amongst the mods and will likely piss off a lot of regular members.

So, while I have my own hair-brained ideas about how to run a reasonably large online forum I have to factor in as many things as I can and right now there are a lot of things surrounding this.

Alright, fair enough, but then again if the staff is not prepared to unban part of the people who got banned because Gutter, there is then no point for those people to appeal on the hidden section of MTGS, unless it is to be further humiliated on top of the previous slanderous bannings.

I share this exact feeling you have over some people not being able to move forward, and it is the exact reason I didn't wanted to be baited into one more dance of useless appeals, where I'd have probably been harassed by people bearing grudges before being unceremoniously tossed out (again). And quite frankly if people are not ready to move on, I don't see why I would have to
take the high road and forgive those who destroyed our community.

Pendulum · Postby **Pendulum** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:45 am

How many mods do I lose? This might seem like dramatics, but it's not.

Um, no, that's like the prime example of dramatics. I happen to be an expert on that subject.

Shalako · Postby **Shalako** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:28 am

Well am I good or am I not?
I can't answer that as it's not my sole decision.

Well, when that's figured out Let me know so I don't have to Appeal and then be told I'm not good enough to come back.

Shalako · Postby **Shalako** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:29 am

It will cause a fight amongst the mods and will likely piss off a lot of regular members.

%99 of your members could give less of a shit about the gutter or Site Drama.

Don't lose sight of that.

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:55 am

It will cause a fight amongst the mods and will likely piss off a lot of regular members.
%99 of your members could give less of a shit about the gutter or Site Drama.

Don't lose sight of that.

I haven't. But those 1% are pretty damn vocal when they see the staff doing something they don't like... hmmmm, I think a lot of you guys are part of that 1%

Shalako · Postby **Shalako** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:06 am

I'm just confused why you care about what people who weren't even involved with what happened and are speaking out of their butts Most of the time think.

Could you answer Yes/No to my post above the one you quoted please?

Sir Sapphire the 3rd · Postby **Sir Sapphire the 3rd** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:01 am

Well am I good or am I not?
I can't answer that as it's not my sole decision.
The point is I have already made a detailed post ITT (and I'm sure every single staff member who is invested on "solving" these issues has read it ITT too) mentioning we'd be willing bygones be bygones if we were to be unbanned and that speaking for myself I would have no particular incentive to be a "
troublemeaker" or "rabble-rouser" (as you put it), and if I were to humor some of you guys on staff by making an appeal on the MTGS cave, I'd repost exactly this.

So again, if we are looking towards the future instead of the past, and if the idea is moving beyond apologies, finger pointing at who was ultimately responsible of all he bad that occurred to our community in the past 6months, what is the point of you guys not budging about the necessity to make an appeal in private if it isn't precisely for doing what you mentioned is unnecessary: groveling to the staff and being humiliated on a hidden corner of MTGS.

Surely you understand where I'm coming from.
I very much do understand where you are coming from. I am also much more concerned about the future than the past, but people are looking at your past to determine future actions. Frankly, there have been more than a few times where your previous actions have made my jaw drop. I can move on though but what
happens the first time you don't like something on the site? How many mods do I lose? This might seem like dramatics, but it's not. People quit over this stuff. Unbanning you will likely cause 1-2 people to quit too. It will cause a fight amongst the mods and will likely piss off a lot of regular members.

So, while I have my own hair-brained ideas about how to run a reasonably large online forum I have to factor in as many things as I can and right now there are a lot of things surrounding this.
Tango down.
Your fucked sir.
*You're[/
quote]
fuck you

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:47 am

I'd want to be on the site for Mafia and that's the only thing I would want to interact with.
Gal , can this be done?
Can I mask him out of everything but Mafia? Yes. Do I want a member on the site that we've deemed unsuitable for EVERYTHING except one forum? No. It's sort of an all or nothing deal for me. I've said this many times, but either you are good or you are not.[
/quote]
Not everyone is good or bad, there are defining lines.

FaheyUSMC · Postby **FaheyUSMC** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:09 am

I'm just stopping in to say I missed you all.

ALSO HIS FUCKING NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA YOU STUPID FUCKING SHIT GET IT RIGHT BEFORE I HAVE ANOTHER ANEURYSM.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:54 am

I'm just stopping in to say I missed you all.

ALSO HIS FUCKING NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA YOU STUPID FUCKING SHIT GET IT RIGHT BEFORE I HAVE ANOTHER ANEURYSM.

Long time, still doxing ?

Slammu · Postby **Slammu** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:47 pm

What this thread needs is a fresh breath of spam.

(I say that in all seriousness, because absofuckinglutely nothing is going to be accomplished by all of this.)

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Blackhound is Fahey no?

Second Harkius · Postby **Second Harkius** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:16 pm

What this thread needs is a fresh breath of spam.

(I say that in all seriousness, because absofuckinglutely nothing is going to be accomplished by all of this.)

Finally, can (or minimally limit) the spam. At least in public places. Of the posts that are visible to guests, there's a frighteningly high noise-signal ratio. (Amongst the highest I've seen anywhere, including CNN and Facebook.) Thirty meaningless spam posts in a row do absolutely nothing to draw people here and do a surprising amount to send them away. It's
just garbage posts. Put it in your TBGTE and leave it out of other places.

Slammu · Postby **Slammu** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:24 pm

LOL. CI is another good place for spam.

Kaitscralt · Postby **Kaitscralt** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:14 pm

Galspanic, if you are expecting staff to quit over N.S's unbanning, then why wouldn't you go falsely announce his unbanning right now just to get those people off of your team? It would be a simple management exercise to expunge chaff from the mod group who are unable to demonstrate important skills to moderation such as: critical thinking, moving on, brainstorming, greater good versus selfishness, reading, empathy, not being a ragequitter, closing mouth when breathing, maturity and intelligence.

Frankly I am disappointed the administration is not using the Gutter unbans as a time to figure out who needs to be removed from the mod group until they can put the website before their personal bias and unbreakable grudges.

Pendulum · Postby **Pendulum** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Or just "Now that we're with Curse and have an active owner we're overstaffed. Who wants to step down, keeping in mind that we're trying to improve relations with all facets of our userbase?"

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:16 pm

Galspanic, if you are expecting staff to quit over N.S's unbanning, then why wouldn't you go falsely announce his unbanning right now just to get those people off of your team? It would be a simple management exercise to expunge chaff from the mod group who are unable to demonstrate important skills to moderation such as: critical thinking, moving on, brainstorming, greater good versus selfishness, reading, empathy, not being a ragequitter, closing mouth when breathing, maturity and intelligence.

Frankly I am disappointed the administration is not using the Gutter unbans as a time to figure out who needs to be removed from the mod group until they can put the website before their personal bias and unbreakable grudges.

Some good
points here.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:20 pm

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost ... stcount=18

1 year ago today, time flys.

ExarionUniverse1 · Postby **ExarionUniverse1** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:37 pm

Galspanic, if you are expecting staff to quit over N.S's unbanning, then why wouldn't you go falsely announce his unbanning right now just to get those people off of your team? It would be a simple management exercise to expunge chaff from the mod group who are unable to demonstrate important skills to moderation such as: critical thinking, moving on, brainstorming, greater good versus selfishness, reading, empathy, not being a ragequitter, closing mouth when breathing, maturity and intelligence.

Frankly I am disappointed the administration is not using the Gutter unbans as a time to figure out who needs to be removed from the mod group until they can put the website before their personal bias and unbreakable grudges.

and from the
information I am getting most of the staff wants this bad spell to end Gal, those that caused this will probably be the ones that quit.

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:47 pm

I'm just confused why you care about what people who weren't even involved with what happened and are speaking out of their butts Most of the time think.

Could you answer Yes/No to my post above the one you quoted please?

Which one?

Can I mask him out of everything but Mafia? Yes. Do I want a member on the site that we've deemed unsuitable for EVERYTHING except one forum? No. It's sort of an
all or nothing deal for me. I've said this many times, but either you are good or you are not.
Not everyone is good or bad, there are defining lines.

I know. Unfortunately, that does involve judgment calls and not everyone will evaluate situations the same.

Frankly I am disappointed the administration is not using the Gutter unbans as a time to figure out who needs to be removed from the mod group until they can put the website before their personal bias and unbreakable grudges.

I'm not going to "Gotcha!" the staff, but I can tell you that we are very aware of people who are unwilling to let shit go. There is a bit of a personal dilemma with myself...since the mass bans it has been easier for people to put the website first, make changes that we'd talked about for a
long time, and haven't had a huge number of staff leave. Since this all went down CI is manageable and relatively productive. Mods aren't sending me PMs about how site drama isn't ruining thier fun (completely unrelated mods who you'd never think even cared too). It's been nice. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily right, so that's why I am here.

Or just "Now that we're with Curse and have an active owner we're overstaffed. Who wants to step down, keeping in mind that we're trying to improve relations with all facets of our userbase?"

Don't forget that banning some of these people did improve relations with some facets of our userbase. That's sort of how stupid and ingrained some of this stuff was.

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:59 pm

Oh CI has cooled down now has it? Maybe because the last year of drama was all "The gutter closing" related. If we were left alone in the beginning it wouldn't have happened and now the place is gone that isn't a problem anymore.

And to be fair, the people who applied for moderation are aware of site drama. If you don't want to be involved in drama an don't want to deal with people, don't be a mod.

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:01 pm

That's like a hospitality worker complaining that someone had a winge about the food and he had to calm them down, it comes with the job for Christ sake.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:07 pm

CI has indeed cooled down, but then the site is being run a lot better now than it was 6 months ago.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:12 pm

I found this post from CorpT from last month to be interesting as well.

Originally Posted by Nai
Okay, let's get transparent here. If you're going to try to hang out dirty laundry, I'm going to do it too.

CorpT, you were specifically asked to take part in the mod-only thread that you have access to instead of only lurking and reporting posts. You were making people feel uncomfortable with your presence because they felt you were spying on them. Instead of taking this to heart and joining a community ready to welcome you, you left because we didn't want you reporting posts you didn't like.

That's laughable, but Ok. I reported posts when asked to. I stopped when asked to. I left when asked to.

Quote:
If you three want to do better for this site, then be constructive. Don't complain constantly. CorpT, you want to bring up a problem you have with mods? You were invited to step in and talk. So do it, don'
t angst because they don't want you to act the spy.

Megs specifically called me out for discussing mod issues in grr. So I stopped. I pmed you and er. That was completely blown off. So where am I stopped to go?

The issue I have with teia is not personal. I'm sure you don't believe that, but it's true. My issue is her posting and attitude. Search grr for her posts that mention any ci warrior, Fahey, harkius, Brandon, belgareth and you'll see. The fact that these are tolerated and defended is shocking. I saw those posts and general negative attitude as detrimental. They spread to other mods and, I believe made much of the drama worse. Her duplicitous posting made me not believe that she was sincere in anything she said in ci.

But I can see that this is not going to change. You believe any criticism is invalid because people don't like her personally. So... Good luck.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:15 pm

"Why should the Grrrrrrrr thread exist and its effects on the rest of the forum"

Snigger.

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:30 pm

That's like a hospitality worker complaining that someone had a winge about the food and he had to calm them down, it comes with the job for Christ sake.

To assume all new mods know exactly how CI drama effects their soon to be coworkers isn't really fair. But, you guys don't know anything about having your friends beat up and dragged out, do you?

. The people we bring on now, I assume, know more about this stuff, but I'd rather they just hire on and have fun working their forum. We are about there and anything that shakes that up will be slower to happen than some like.

Col. Khaddafi · Postby **Col. Khaddafi** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:30 pm

If I was unbanned on MTGSalvation, Teia would likely ragequit from staff, and that would be very detrimental to the quality standards of iridium, hence it is better that I remain banned for the greater good of the site, as well as ensuring that WCT remains a subforum without casual racism and the endorsement of slavery.

But, you guys don't know anything about having your friends beat up and dragged out, do you? .

To be fair to the staff no, because this was all a misunderstanding and you guys did nothing wrong

(sorry could not resist, take this last comment on a
light-hearted tone if you will

)

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:34 pm

Yeah yeah yeah ....

Pendulum · Postby **Pendulum** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:35 pm

That's like a hospitality worker complaining that someone had a winge about the food and he had to calm them down, it comes with the job for Christ sake.
To assume all new mods know exactly how CI drama effects their soon to be coworkers isn't really fair. But, you guys don't know anything about having your friends beat up and dragged out, do you? . The people we bring on now, I assume, know more about this stuff, but I'd rather they just hire on and have fun working their forum. We are
about there and anything that shakes that up will be slower to happen than some like.

Wait.
You don't honestly believe Spring will last forever, do you!?

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:53 pm

Lets change the Watercooler talk before clarifying any of the rules.

What people are now pissed off sparking CI issues and helpdesk issues.

Why this must be the fault of the gutter or people bullying us.

Cant be any other reason.

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:00 pm

Its also fine for teia to rip people behind closed doors, but god help if anyone to call her names such as I dunno "Teita"

If she cant take it, then dont give it out.

Anyway rant over, moving on.

Galspanic · Postby **Galspanic** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:08 pm

Does this have anything to do with unbanning people?

Blackhound · Postby **Blackhound** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:15 pm

You are right it does not, but then neither does 3 quater of the stuff in this thread, and like I said rant over.

Peace.

Col. Khaddafi · Postby **Col. Khaddafi** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:25 pm

I think we have reached a conclusion about unbanning gutterfolks: The least prominent of the bannings have been reversed or will be reversed soon (minus one or two guys) whereas the former guttermod trio is not likely to be unbanned at this juncture (as the dragging of kpaca's/Jones appeal attests it) due to the opposition of a minority of the staff who still bears grudges.

Possibly we will be able to reconvene a few months from now once these guys have been dealt with/ignored/marginalized/let their grudges go. Not much more than can be said.

So yeah it seems this is more likely than not turning into some sort of speakeasy chat/etc... why not?

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:35 pm

-->

Captain Murphy · Postby **Captain Murphy** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:36 pm

When in doubt: Blame gutter

Dies to Removal

Open Site Blathering (formerly Advice from iridium ITT)

Who is online