Dies to Removal

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 4:45 pm**

Since a few infinite mana combos are on the table, I'll suggest a few ways to actually use that mana to win.

Oona, Queen of the Fae

Pros:
- 5/5 evasive body for 6 mana.
- Ability mills the table with infinite mana, and can do it the turn she drops.

Cons:
- She's as fragile as any other creature.
- Everybody knows what you're about to do as soon as they see her.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:00 pm**

There are better X spells I think. [card]Blue Sun's Zenith[/card] comes to mind immediately, as does Exsanguinate. I forget what the white zenith does (posting from my phone) but I bet that card works too.

I play Skyscribing, Prosperity, and Treasure Trove as my mana dumps in Azami. Debt to the Deathless is also a card for infinite mana.

Tl;dr: not huge on Oona personally.

Also not sold on Counterbalance, it seems pretty bad in a format where there is such a huge disparity in converted mana costs across the table, not to mention it's awful politics.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:06 pm**

Yes or no on counterspells?

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:08 pm**

Counterspells are fine. I'm assuming the normal offenders are in demand here? Hinder, Dissipate, Forbid, Spell Crumple, Counterspell, etc?

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:09 pm**

Also I'm going to add the three colored artifact lands to the deck, they seem pretty obvious.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:10 pm**

Exsanguine was my next suggestion. I went with Oona over BSZ because Zenith is target player mills out, while Oona can mill the whole table in one turn. I'm a huge fan of things that hit the whole table, especially if I win out of nowhere with them.

Exsanguinate

Pros:
- Table kill with infinite mana. Even if someone survives it somehow, you'll be so far ahead it won't make a difference.
- It's from Scars of Mirrodin, and has a cool looking vampire on it.

Cons:
- You get one shot and that's it. Gotta make it count.

Debt to the Deathless amounts to the same thing, I guess.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:12 pm**

Counterspells are fine. I'm assuming the normal offenders are in demand here? Hinder, Dissipate, Forbid, Spell Crumple, Counterspell, etc?

Sounds like a plan.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:13 pm**

Force of Will and Mana Drain as well if we forget about any kind of budget.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:14 pm**

I usually win the game via Laboratory Maniac with [card]Blue Sun's Zenith[/card], so it is always the first spell to come to mind when I think of infinite mana.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2014 5:15 pm**

Ah, that's a good plan too.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 12:30 am**

If we're talking counterspells, it's a bit more expensive, but I enjoy Render Silent

Pros:
Counterspell
Stops their turn if it resolves

Cons:
3 cmc is a bit high for a counterspell
It's split second jr,

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 2:56 am**

No one's suggested Arcum Daggson yet?

Pros: Obv
Cons: Requires artifact creatures, oh wait, the general does what?

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 2:57 am**

Card: Arcum Dagsson.

Pros:
+Lets you tutor for stuff and puts it DIRECTLY INTO PLAY, which is pretty huge on its own.
+Is clearly a powerful wizard. (He's not even a wizard, what kind of shit is that?)
+It's really hard to populate this list because I think just being able to tutor for stuff is a very powerful ability on its own, but putting it into play is over the top.
+Can do insane stuff with Freed from the Real if we decided to include it.

Cons:
-He's a creature that has a tap ability and no haste.
-Makes you sac an artifact to tutor for one.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 10:53 am**

Don't mind Azreal, he logs in once a month, says something snobbish, then disappears for another 30 days. It's likely he didn't even read the thread.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 12:47 pm**

Updated the rules a little bit. Changed it so that you can submit as many cards as you want, but only the first ten voted in make the cut.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 6:08 pm**

Card: Transmute Artifact

Pros:
+ Tutor.
+ Easy to ramp into bigger artifacts with all the mana rocks.

Cons:
- Have to sacrifice an artifact to tutor.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 6:10 pm**

Card: Enlightened Tutor

Pros:
+ Tutor.

Cons:
- Card disadvantage.
- Can be hosed by shuffle effects from opponents.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 6:49 pm**

Card: Mirrorworks

Pros:
+ Plays well with mana rocks.
+ Makes your artifacts harder to answer since your opponent will need to deal with it twice (outside of a sweeper).

Cons:
- Relatively expensive for the effect.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 9:29 pm**

Don't mind Azreal, he logs in once a month, says something snobbish, then disappears for another 30 days. It's likely he didn't even read the thread.

I say snobbish things much more often than that, thank you very much.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 9:34 pm**

I don't play a ton of EDH but here's my contribution

Master Transmuter

Pros:

- Protects an artifact with option of not losing card advantage
- Turns your cheap artifacts into Hyper mana rocks
- Cycle ETB triggers
- Gives cards flash

Cons:

- Needs to untap before she can protect herself
- Bad if gassed on empty board

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2014 10:12 pm**

So tempted to suggest Blightsteel Colossus, despite it being a pretty bad card.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 12:01 am**

Another submission:

Etherium Sculptor

Pros:
Makes most of our cards cost 1 less
Cheap investment to make our spells cheaper

Cons:
Easily removed
1/2 leaves something to be desired

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 1:32 am**

Pretty meh, I think. Semblance Anvil is pretty borderline too honestly, I only suggested it since it was also an effective beater.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 3:06 am**

Should the staple color-fixing lands be auto-includes? I mean, you need a good reason not to include them.

Command Tower
Reflecting Pool
[cards]Godless Shrine[/cards]
Hallowed Fountain
Watery Grave
Drowned Catacomb
Glacial Fortress
Isolated Chapel
[cards]Fetid Heath[/cards]
Sunken Ruins
Mystic Gate

And if we're not considering budget...
Underground Sea
Tundra
Scrubland

Specifically on the the ones that don't CIPT with no way around it, and don't do anything but generate mana. ([card]Forbidden
Orchard[/card] is an example of one that doesn't fit that description.)

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 3:08 am**

Academy Ruins

Pros:
- Artifact recursion source.

Cons:
- Recurs to top deck, which is less preferable than to hand or directly into play.
- Only taps for colorless mana.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 3:18 am**

Let's just make a mana base now and not have it count as anyone's picks:
[deck]
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Fetid Heath
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Mystic Gate
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tolaria West
1 Stip Mine
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
1 Vault of Whispers
6 Island
4 Plains
3 Swamp
[/deck]
38 land. Seem good? We can add fetches or scry lands if we want.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 3:22 am**

Card: Maze of Ith

Pros:
-you get to fuck with everyone's combat step
-people are less likely to attack you in general
-doesn't cost any mana

Cons:
-you basically miss a land drop the turn you play it

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 12:59 pm**

Updated OP. Let's save the mana until the very end, because there is an argument to be made about how heavily to lean on colors, etc. Mana fixing lands are awesome and all, but let's stick to utility lands for now.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 1:26 pm**

Anyway, I know Sydri kind of already does this, but redundancy is a good thing, and this will spell insta-scoop from most opponents because of their inability to play lands while Mycosynth Lattice is on board.

Card: March of the Machines.

Pros:
+Saves you mana in the long run.
+Combos with Mycosynth Lattice to keep opponents from playing lands.
+Harder to remove than Sydri due to being an enchantment.
+Having redundancy in your effects is powerful in Commander.

Cons:
-You also cannot play lands with Mycosynth Lattice on board.
-Some opponents can benefit from this as well.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:12 pm**

Master of Etherium

Pros:
- Potentially a great, big ass.
- Buffs other artifact creatures.

Cons:
- Value is only worth your current board state.

[x] Tallied.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:17 pm**

Ethersworn Canonist

Pros:
- 2cmc set of brake pads for your opponents.

Cons:
- Potentially dead vs. certain other decks.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:38 pm**

Gonna throw in some pillowfort cards. Why? They're artifacts and they help the deck smooth over bad draws.

Card: Crawlspace.

Pros:
+Not getting clubbed like a baby seal by Prossh players.
+Helps smooth out the early game while you're gassing up.

Cons:
-You still get mutilated by tron players.
-Not an amazing topdeck.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:41 pm**

Card: Silent Arbiter.

Pros:
+Keeps you safe, giving you plenty of time to gas up.
+Excellent card in tandem with Planeswalkers.
+Pretty good political card depending on the table.

Cons:
-Can also be a bad political card depending on the table.
-Keeps you from alpha'ing.
-Dies to board wipes.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:44 pm**

Master of Etherium

Pros:
- Potentially a great, big ass.
- Buffs other artifact creatures.

Cons:
- Value is only worth your current board state.

I like this guy, and I like his scarier brother... (especially with deathtouch and lifelink...)

Card: Darksteel Juggernaut

Pros:
+Huge guy.
+Indestructible.
+Doesn't afraid of anything.
+Pretty good thing to tutor for with Arcum Daggson.

Cons:
-Only as good as your board.

[
x] Tallied.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 6:45 pm**

Also Darksteel Juggernaut might have the best flavor text out of the whole block.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 7:04 pm**

Card: Scourglass

Pros:
+ Board wipe that doesn't destroy our artifacts.
+ Can be tutored with Arcum Daggson, Enlightened Tutor, etc.

Cons:
- Can only be activated during our upkeep.

[x] Tallied.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 7:08 pm**

Card: Trading Post

Pros:
+ Can recur artifacts in our graveyard.
+ Can make chump blockers.
+ Can buffer our life total.
+ Can prevent our artifacts and creatures from being exiled by sacrificing them in response to those effects.

Cons:
- Effects can be relatively low impact early in the game.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 8:11 pm**

As long as we're on the subject of beaters...

Cranial Plating

Pros:
- B-b-b-broken
- Equip for

at instant speed.

Cons:
- Could be called win-more.
- Potentially underwhelming in EDH.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2014 8:14 pm**

Sword of Feast and Famine

Pros:
- Untaps all your lands, letting you tap out to cast creatures and spells while still having plenty of mana open for counters.
- Pro green and pro black are very relevant.

Cons:
- Equipped creature has to connect.
- Draws a lot of hate.

Posted: **Wed May 21, 2014 9:42 am**

Gonna be busy today (It's my birthday.) so I'm leaving the updating of the OP up to Suga. I'm assuming he is up to the job.

Dies to Removal

Build-a-deck #1: Sydri, Galvanic Genius.