Greatest Idea Mafia *** Game Over ***

[Mcdonalds]

vote dechs

[Stardust]

Now there's the wagon.

Dechs, if I just wanted nothing but to lynch you then I wouldn't even be asking you questions. I'd present a solid case and set out to convince others. I'm asking you to take a stance where you can and tell me who you think is scum. You've been talking a lot this game. That's great, but it doesn't help if it doesn't lead anywhere. All I want to know is what you've learned from all the hard work you've been doing. Is that unfair?

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't know who's scum.

I think Ham, Red, Imopen and LMD are Town. With me in that group, that's the five town players we were guaranteed.

Stardust, I still don't know what to think of your claim and you're just tunneling me so I'm getting a little emotional about it. I hope you're town because I know you're good at it and that means we'll win.

That leaves WitchHunt, Jamie, and RCW. RCW's the top of my list for scum candidates. He's been around while I've been asking for claimed cards and he hasn't responded to it. Now is the time that he could claim safely if he's scum. That's the behavior I expected to see out of scum.

[RedNihilist]

DK and WitchHunt claimed Town Lover.
Jamie claimed Town Cop/Lover.

27 cards were dealt over a grand total of 118, 7 of them contain a Lover role.
Of those 7, only 5 are Town aligned (the others being Mafia Lover and Bulletproof Alien Lover), and 3 seem to have been discarded.

Seems like that nobody likes to be a Lover.
That means that choosing a strong role with the Lover drawback is actually less impactful than one could expect.

Jamie, why did you discard a role such as Cop if you were to be Town?

[Dechs Kaison]

I feel strongly enough about it.

Vote RCW

[Dechs Kaison]

Hey Red, does it always suck this bad being so far off time zones from everyone else?

[RedNihilist]

Yup.
You miss all the fun action because it usually happens when you sleep, and every time you ask a question you're set to wait for hours...

[Stardust]

I don't know who's scum.

I think Ham, Red, Imopen and LMD are Town. With me in that group, that's the five town players we were guaranteed.

Stardust, I still don't know what to think of your claim and you're just tunneling me so I'm getting a little emotional about it. I hope you're town because I know you're good at it and that means we'll win.

That leaves WitchHunt, Jamie, and RCW. RCW's the top of my list for scum candidates. He's been around while I've been asking for claimed cards and he hasn't responded to it. Now is the time that he could claim safely if he's scum. That's the behavior I expected to see out of scum.

Okay, cool, now we're getting somewhere. You said before that you thought I should be going after the guy who claimed the vanilla card. That's LMD. Why do you think he's town?

Do you have reason to believe that ham, Red and imopen are town besides the fact that they claimed a unique card? (1-shot Kingmaker, Private Investigator and Hider, respectively)

I'll ask these again too, because I think they might be interesting. What do you think of hammy's change of heart regarding giving up his card? What do you make of the way people claimed their lover cards?


PS: I miss you being in my time zone too because most of these folks post in the evening so I have no one to argue with during the day.

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't know who's scum.

I think Ham, Red, Imopen and LMD are Town. With me in that group, that's the five town players we were guaranteed.

Stardust, I still don't know what to think of your claim and you're just tunneling me so I'm getting a little emotional about it. I hope you're town because I know you're good at it and that means we'll win.

That leaves WitchHunt, Jamie, and RCW. RCW's the top of my list for scum candidates. He's been around while I've been asking for claimed cards and he hasn't responded to it. Now is the time that he could claim safely if he's scum. That's the behavior I expected to see out of scum.

Okay, cool, now we're getting somewhere. You said before that you thought I should be going after the guy who claimed the vanilla card. That's LMD. Why do you think he's town?

Do you have reason to believe that ham, Red and imopen are town besides the fact that they claimed a unique card? (1-shot Kingmaker, Private Investigator and Hider, respectively)

I'll ask these again too, because I think they might be interesting. What do you think of hammy's change of heart regarding giving up his card? What do you make of the way people claimed their lover cards?


PS: I miss you being in my time zone too because most of these folks post in the evening so I have no one to argue with during the day.

I never said you should go after the guy claiming the Vanilla card. I just noticed you banging on me about the Lover card but didn't even touch those two.

I think LMD's town because I read a lot of town mindset in his posts. He's trying to get discussion about your claim and he's trying to get us all moving on something. In addition to that, he came out with his Town card right away.

No, I don't have reason to believe those guys are town beyond their claims. Nothing they're doing, save Ham, even threw up red flags though, so I'm going with it for now.

Ham's change of heart doesn't bother me as much as his "You said you're scum so I'm not helping you" line. It's the way he resisted that bothers me. When he turned around and claimed, I think he was genuine about coming to understand what I was going for.

The cop/lover card is unique, so you shouldn't lump it with the other two lover card claims. I know mine's genuine, so I can't be too hard on WitchHunt for his claimed one. Knowing I have one doesn't make his any less likely, either. They're all unique cards and I've played enough poker not to make an assumption like that.

PS: You have me for another half hour, and during most weekdays, you'll have me for another four.

PPS: I wrote the PS first, so now it's only like 10 minutes.

[rcwraspy]

I don't know who's scum.

I think Ham, Red, Imopen and LMD are Town. With me in that group, that's the five town players we were guaranteed.

Stardust, I still don't know what to think of your claim and you're just tunneling me so I'm getting a little emotional about it. I hope you're town because I know you're good at it and that means we'll win.

That leaves WitchHunt, Jamie, and RCW. RCW's the top of my list for scum candidates. He's been around while I've been asking for claimed cards and he hasn't responded to it. Now is the time that he could claim safely if he's scum. That's the behavior I expected to see out of scum.

I thought you wanted that just from people who discarded town roles? This game confuses the hell out of me.

[rcwraspy]

So my fully discarded card you know about from rez.

I took the faction from one and ability from another.

The resulting faction discarded was werewolf.

The resulting ability discarded was vanilla.

[rcwraspy]

Not forgetting about your questions Stardust. Just have phone access today so only small posts today.

[Stardust]

What he wants is for people to claim the card you pulled your alignment from. It won't give any information on your role (or at least, very little), but locks you into the card that you used for alignment. Basically, he wants the benefit of counterclaims now instead of waiting for people to claim because they're scummy. Advantage is that someone might slip and claim a card someone else has (or else be forced to claim a vanilla card or something). Disadvantage is that it halves the card pool that the scum can get caught from later.

Pedit: So you pulled your alignment from a Town Vanilla card? It would have been better for you not to claim the werewolf bit.

[rcwraspy]

I didn't understand what he was asking until your post just now. Mostly because I didn't think it applied to me since I didn't discard a town role. I should have asked for an example in grid form.

[rcwraspy]

What he wants is for people to claim the card you pulled your alignment from. It won't give any information on your role (or at least, very little), but locks you into the card that you used for alignment. Basically, he wants the benefit of counterclaims now instead of waiting for people to claim because they're scummy. Advantage is that someone might slip and claim a card someone else has (or else be forced to claim a vanilla card or something). Disadvantage is that it halves the card pool that the scum can get caught from later.

Pedit: So you pulled your alignment from a Town Vanilla card? It would have been better for you not to claim the werewolf bit.

better off how? With all the possibilities this claiming stuff is just wifom anyway.

[Stardust]

You claim that your role came from a Werewolf card. There are only 11 possible roles you could have, 3 of which make no sense for a townie to choose and a couple more that are unlikely choices. If you are town, the scum now have a fairly good idea of what you might be capable of.

[rcwraspy]

I blame Dechs.

[Stardust]

If there is a vig, I would say shoot dusty, his op is basically a huge piece of wifom, that I feel ultimately confuses the town more than anything

His accusatory tone is off putting as well, iirc, he takes a more leading role as a town and he feels more antagonistic here

Hey LMD, you seem to think that I'm scum here, but now you're following me on Dechs. Am I town?

You later agree that vigging me would be a bad idea, but why didn't you try to lynch me in that case? Why did you never vote if you actually wanted me dead?

[Stardust]

That being said, there was a moment when stardust did not come across as his normal townie self...

imopen, can you point out this moment, please?

[Stardust]

rezmo, what will be revealed on death?

[imopen2]

That being said, there was a moment when stardust did not come across as his normal townie self...

imopen, can you point out this moment, please?

I'd rather not since that would allow you to correct your behavior going forward. I'm reading you as town right now, though, due to a strong town mindset in some of your recent posts, so it's probably moot anyways.

[rezombad]

rezmo, what will be revealed on death?

Role PM.

If you're asking if the cards dealt to a player will be revealed upon death or if the cards used to construct a players role will be revealed upon death, the answer to both of those is no.

[Stardust]

Thanks, rezmo.

I'd rather not since that would allow you to correct your behavior going forward. I'm reading you as town right now, though, due to a strong town mindset in some of your recent posts, so it's probably moot anyways.

Fair enough. I was asking since that showed some uncertainty in your read (and reads in general) that could have come from a scum mindset, but I won't push it since I like this answer well enough.

[imopen2]

Thanks, rezmo.

I'd rather not since that would allow you to correct your behavior going forward. I'm reading you as town right now, though, due to a strong town mindset in some of your recent posts, so it's probably moot anyways.

Fair enough. I was asking since that showed some uncertainty in your read (and reads in general) that could have come from a scum mindset, but I won't push it since I like this answer well enough.

Cool.

I like your RCW case. I also don't buy it when he says he didn't understand the claim dechs was asking for since I already explained what dechs meant earlier.

[imopen2]

Vote RCW

[rcwraspy]

What reason other than not understanding would I have for screwing up my claim?

[rcwraspy]

Hell I'm just now beginning to understand the dammed setup. Of course the claim request makes no sense to me, especially since Dechs misused terminology and I didn't think it applied to me in the first place.

[rcwraspy]

Thanks, rezmo.

I'd rather not since that would allow you to correct your behavior going forward. I'm reading you as town right now, though, due to a strong town mindset in some of your recent posts, so it's probably moot anyways.

Fair enough. I was asking since that showed some uncertainty in your read (and reads in general) that could have come from a scum mindset, but I won't push it since I like this answer well enough.

Cool.

I like your RCW case. I also don't buy it when he says he didn't understand the claim dechs was asking for since I already explained what dechs meant earlier.

The"case" hinges on me asking questions then leaving things alone and moving on to other things. In other words in early day one with little participation so far it hinges on nothing. Will expand on that tomorrow.

[rcwraspy]

imopen2, what exactly do you like about the "case"? This seems like too opportunistic of a vote tbh. We haven't interacted at all so far and now you're jumping in based on what exactly?

[WitchHunt]

Well, I've got a little bit of announcement, while re-reading and playing catch up in the thread I caught onto this.

The card i took alignment from was cop/lover

Since people started revealing their alignment card its best for everyone to follow suit, since whatever advantage there is gets you killed.

I'm counter claiming, I didn't have Town Lover, I had Town Cop/Lover as my card. I realize a Cop is a reasonably powerful role, and the reason I didn't pick it as my card was because there were so many factions besides Mafia and when doubled with the Lover portion of the card I didn't feel too keen on it.

I'm okay with revealing my previous sketchy claim simply because the counter claim profit is too strong.

Vote: Jamie

I'm in it for the town. If this backfires and I get lynched or NKed, you'll know to take out Jamie next.

[hamfactorial]

WitchHunt:

Why did you leave the cop portion off of your original claim?

[WitchHunt]

Similar reason to why I didn't like the fact so many conspiracy theorists were discarded, Aliens knew there were hardly any of them floating around, I didn't want Mafia to know there was one less cop floating around.

[Stardust]

Well that's interesting.

Unvote.

Jamie, what's up with that?

[hamfactorial]

I'm happy there's a counter-claim that came out of Dechs' plan, but I'm divided.

The odds of someone faking a card and then catching someone with that card is so low it strikes me as a stunt.

It's such a high-risk low-reward play for a scum player though, so I'm inclined to believe WitchHunt is being genuine with this.

[RedNihilist]

This his actually huge.

[Jamie]

I'm happy there's a counter-claim that came out of Dechs' plan, but I'm divided.

The odds of someone faking a card and then catching someone with that card is so low it strikes me as a stunt.

It's such a high-risk low-reward play for a scum player though, so I'm inclined to believe WitchHunt is being genuine with this.

I'm 80% sure this is a witchhunt-in-ww/alien/serialkiller world you make this claim in. Mafia has 2 or 3 people in this world. You counterclaim against someone you have a scumread that isn't ww/alien and if it turns out mafia you're golden and set to win because you're counterclaim-immune.
If witchhunt is ww I want to have this fight now but if he's alien he's guaranteed to take someone out anyway as he goes down so maybe we could save that lynch for another day (or maybe he gets nk).

The other 20% world is where mafia wants to trade 1 for 1 for some reason.

To answer rednihilist's question, cop is an information role when you could die at any time. It feels weak but I really thought hard on taking it over my other nonvanilla ability. My conclusion was to take the ability that was less scary/random option

[Jamie]

er, cop/lover is an information role when you could die at any time.***

[WitchHunt]

That reasoning is piss poor, I have no real reason as anti town to come out of no where and make a counter claim this bold. My best case scenario as anti town would be going 1 for 1, which would be retarded and just a terrible trade. I'm town, you're not, even if this gets flipped around on me you're still dying on day two.

[RedNihilist]

If the scum team is composed of three people, though, the move makes sense.
A mislynch would bring them to 3 vs 4, and the following NK would bring the game in a 3 vs 3 status... am I missing something here?

[Stardust]

am I missing something here?

Yes, you are missing something. A mislynch brings them to 3v5. This is a 9 player game. Does that make you neutral?

Anyway, I'm happy with lynching Jamie. He's right that we can't 100% trust WitchHunt to be town just because there's a small chance that this is mafia vs. werewolves, but 1) I doubt WitchHunt would try this targeting someone it's hard to get a read on this game (Jamie hasn't posted much), and 2) who cares?

I also came to the conclusion that claiming the cop/lover card is a perfect choice for a scum fake claim, because what townie would use that card for the abilities? Most townies had already claimed their alignment card when Jamie claimed this (he was second last, I think), making it very safe (it's not going to be one of the unclaimed ability cards) and unique. This just makes me trust WitchHunt more.

Vote Jamie.

PS: Sorry your first game had to end so quickly, Jamie. I hope you'll play again.

By the way, in case I do die overnight for some stupid reason, don't go too hard on Dechs or rcw just because of me. I'm going to continue grilling them both, but neither are particularly strong scum reads. That said, do not take Dechs' rage as a townie sign. It read to me as being quite hollow and perhaps an attempt to get cleared by acting angry.