[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Kazekirimaru]

"You play Azami? You're not playing with us."
"Uh, fuck yourself, because I can beat your ass in real life. *Has a seat.*"

I have a hard time believing anyone ever speaks ill to you in real life when you have the approximate shoulder width of a stationwagon.

[Dechs Kaison]

If you sit down at my EDH table with a pile of 100 cards, you can play.

[BlakLanner]

Ugh, another 3-1 finish at FNM tonight. I know I should be pretty satisfied with a 75% overall win rate the past few months but I am just terribly disappointed.

[Alex]

"You play Azami? You're not playing with us."
"Uh, fuck yourself, because I can beat your ass in real life. *Has a seat.*"

I have a hard time believing anyone ever speaks ill to you in real life when you have the approximate shoulder width of a stationwagon.

And I lift.

I threaten neckbeards who talk to me like that with bodily harm and they usually shut right the fuck up. I'm harmless, but they can't tell that by looking at me.

[Khaospawn]

Alex is "tough nerd. "

[DarthStabber]

I love playing my nekusar deck, it's just so much fun, with group hugs that start to strangle, and a bunch of board wipes, because I have to get that card advantage back somehow. And it's self regulating. In groups that play shitty decks they beat nekusar easy, but he's a serious threat to good decks. Part of it is the low counter count, only hinder and forbid, though I am considering controvert just because it's a recursive counter, but costs 4 mana so people give it a little leeway. That is the key to not being hated out as a blue deck, low counter count. It doesn't occur to people that forbid will stop them all day in a deck that built around howling mines and wraths.

[Khaospawn]

Best multiplayer EDH General that has white in it? My playgroup has no white color decks and everyone just wins(leyline/helm combos, enter the infinite, doubling season, marawis wake, omniscience etc) because no one can remove enchantments. Looking to build a deck to stop this.

My advice? Just stick with what your're playing now but pack some more answers to these problem cards and combos. If you're still on the Nin deck, you have things like Chaos Warp, Cyclonic Rift, and Capsize. Other good removal options are Disk, O-Stone, Karn Liberated, Spine of Ish Shah, and Aftershock (although that doesn't hit enchantments).

[Valdarith]

Or run a deck like mine that has removal effects on their creatures. It's literally a Pod deck for EDH.

[Wraith223]

My friend and I both play Nekusar commander to keep the hate under control. It is a fast game and they can't kill both of us before we get infect online....Glissening oil on Nekusar, winds of change, play howling mine (before or after winds of change), and die on your draw step!. People don't realize that Nekusar decks don't attack normally. I can, but defense is way better for my strategy. Thus new players leave me alone and die cause of it.

Kaalia also gets serious hate from fear of super angels. It gets murdered fast in group games.

Another guy plays Cen Triplets as his commander. Hate that card BAD. Most of the generals I see are: Gerad (Golgari), Teeg, Krenko, Kiki Jiki, Wort-Boggart Auntie, Doran, and few others I can't recall.

We don't give people shit about their commanders, but it is acceptable to group rape a deck.

[Jack]

Just started Attack on Titan. It's the first anime I've watched in 8 years. Thoughts: listening to everything in Japanese is a bit weird, the spastic weather effects are strange, same with the super intense facial expressions, but overall the art style is fantastic and the story rocks.

[Khaospawn]

I used to be a complete asshole when EDH games became too degenerate. If people were playing combo, I'd build a faster combo deck. Rather than bitch about it, I'd end the game on turn 3 or 4 and ask how much everyone enjoyed shuffling for ten minutes before they all died after five minutes of game play. Eventual they all learned to just play more removal and I'd ease back and play more fair.

At the end of the day, people that want to end EdH games super quickly have not learned one of the key rules of playing fun games: just cuz you got the power, that don't mean you got the right. Most of these players are super competitive in what is supposed to be "fun" games because they're insecure about their skills, which usually comes from playing constructed with bad decks or they have inferior long game skills, which means when they enter into EDH, a format with a giant card pool and immensely powerful card
interactions, they go HAM trying to prove to everyone how good they are with their 2 card combo which they dig up with a ton of tutor cards. Or they're just dicks. Or both.

[Wraith223]

I actually prefer quick games instead of 2 hour games for EDH. I think the most hated combos are Land destruction and turn control. Infinite turn combo is a close third.

Extort is really amazing in group games and seems to be ok in the minds of players.

[Jack]

Being behind on land sucks. I'm fine with infinite combos, since all they do is end the game. I don't like decks with lots of tutors built around a combo, though. I also hate playing against decks with 20+ counterspells (although it can be fun to play them, just because blue-based control is the strongest archetype in the format, barring a few really fast combo decks.)

[Jack]

I agree with Khaos that the really strong decks can be among the easiest to play. I've been messing around with a Thada deck that Azrael suggested in some thread here, and there is very little thoughtful interaction. Same thing goes for Clique.

[Jack]

My Riku deck is definitely one of the most thought-intensive decks I've ever piloted in any format.

[Jack]

Anyone who plays Modern should definitely give this a read:
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... or-modern/

[DocLawless]

Someone explained to me not long ago that every time you go up a level of play it becomes a totally different game. I knew that, but for some reason just having it spoken (typed out?) to me was a moment of clarity. People tend to react to players on a level above them by saying their decks are "un-fun" because that's easier to do than accepting/understanding that there is a level of skill beyond where they currently play. I mean, that's human nature. "The problem isn't me, it's something else." But in reality, the problem is someone playing a deck that is more competitive than the group currently averages out to, and people choose to bitch and moan rather than adapt to it and be better players for it. Back in the Sally days of INN/RTR Standard, we said "a group's average skill plateaus at the level of its strongest player". You shoot yourself in the foot by telling
your strongest players to fuck off because they play "un-fun" decks.

[DocLawless]

Oh, and I did this...



$10-$15 card for $5? Yeah, I'll buy that. And it's from ShuffleandCut, not some new seller that may or may not be reputable.

[Jack]

Doc, could I ask what else you're picking up? I haven't really paid attention to the new cards, and don't want to have to pay 3x for them next season when I'm interested in standard again.

[Jack]

I mean, I know I should get a lot of the temples, but are there any rares that only don't see play now because they're outclassed by shit from rtr?

[DocLawless]

I couldn't tell you, man. I've been EDH exclusive since January. Everything I've picked out as being good or bad has been entirely based on whether or not it'd be good at my EDH table.

Zem dropped a hint a while back that we should be aggressively trading for Prophetic Flamespeaker, so I've been collecting those on blind faith.

[Wraith223]

Thanks Jack! That article was very informative. Vendilion Clique is my favorite card right now. I faced BR Vamps from innistrad while playing Faeries. She turn one dropped Cavern of souls. More than half my control are counters. Shit. I had been drawing discard and kill spells early so I was ok, but she was drawing a vampire soon. She does and it's Vampire Aristocrat. It hits play and I am dead without thinking it through. My hand is 2 cryptic command, 2 V. Clique, and counter spells. I realize the answer is in my hand. Cryptic to bunco the bitch + Draw and Cast V. Clique it away. She does it again next turn and I repeat the process. She mana floods while I coast to victory with V Clique + Bitterblossum.

Cryptic Command and V. Clique are just to good.

[Wraith223]

I mean, I know I should get a lot of the temples, but are there any rares that only don't see play now because they're outclassed by shit from rtr?

Master of the Feast might see play when the Desecratio Demon goes. Also, the bestow one is good to.

Prophetic Flamespeaker is good but terrible top decked late game with no protection. It's a big if as his attack is only 2 without help. He is easily chump blocked.

Brain Magoot is a pick up.

Athreos is my favorite god of the block, but Thassa is very good as well. I bought 2 of the BW god.

Temples seem good, but the next set might nerd RU, WB, and RW again. GW, UW, UB, GB, and UG might be worth having in play set. Mana confluence should be picked up just for standard needs.

I like Brimaz
for long term. Been playing with him a while and he is so useful. As a commander, an equipment support deck would be cool. The 4 toughness is so relevant.

[Jack]

Yeah, I can see Temple of Enlightenment being a $14 card in October/November, but I still need 4 Hallowed Fountains and 3 more Thoughtsiezes, and I really hate dropping so much money on just a few cards that I won't immediately find a use for.

[Khaospawn]

I think there just comes a point as an EDH player where you reach a level similar to a Kung-Fu guru; yes, you can kill a table on turn 3 or deliver a 5 point palm exploding heart technique punch to kill someone, but is it really worth it? I see myself as 'above that.' I'd much rather play a game where I can test my limits. Sure, it helps to have that game-winning combo in your back pocket when you need it, but I shuffled and sat down at an edh table to play a game, not solitaire with an audience. If I wanted to masturbate while I combo out, I'll stick to Modern Storm, know what I mean?

[Jack]

I'm still kicking myself for deleting 4 $26 Scalding Tarns and 4 $22 Arid Mesas from my TCGPlayer cart 11 months ago, and I'm afraid most important lands in Modern will probably increase in price by about 50% over the summer.

[Khaospawn]

But then again, this is all coming from the guy with a $2,000 1v1 Kaalia deck that is capable of winning on turn 2 and play MLD, so what do I know?

[Khaospawn]

Jack, don't worry, they'll be reprinting fetches in about a year or so. WoTC announced it at PAX.

I just sold $1100 worth of cards yesterday to raise money for a new car. Know what I parted with? Sets of Mesas, Flats, Catacombs, and Mistys (along with some other goodies). I ain't worried.

[Jack]

Jack, don't worry, they'll be reprinting fetches in about a year or so. WoTC announced it at PAX.

I know that, but it would be nice to be able to play pretty much whatever deck I wanted to play for these two years in between.

[Jack]

I don't think it's good that demand drives certain cards past the $50 mark in the first place, especially for Modern. I think it would have been better for everyone if Wizards printed Modern Masters until the demand for sealed product was gone. This would bring a lot more business and money into local game stores than some high singles prices would.

[Jack]

But then again, this is all coming from the guy with a $2,000 1v1 Kaalia deck that is capable of winning on turn 2 and play MLD, so what do I know?

I would think that having something that powerful and linear would get boring after a while. Hell, I'm already getting a bit bored of the Thada Adel deck I proxied up. I'm guessing you save it for special occasions where you need to stomp a few fools extra hard.

[DocLawless]

I think there just comes a point as an EDH player where you reach a level similar to a Kung-Fu guru; yes, you can kill a table on turn 3 or deliver a 5 point palm exploding heart technique punch to kill someone, but is it really worth it? I see myself as 'above that.' I'd much rather play a game where I can test my limits. Sure, it helps to have that game-winning combo in your back pocket when you need it, but I shuffled and sat down at an edh table to play a game, not solitaire with an audience. If I wanted to masturbate while I combo out, I'll stick to Modern Storm, know what I mean?

I'd personally love to be at that point. Truth be told, my group isn't going to help me get over that hump. No going infinite, no
multiple turns, no Stax, no MLD... I keep coming up with ideas for my decks that might be awesome, but the group wouldn't allow because it goes against one of those rules they've set. There's another EDH group at a different LGS who are more competitive than casual, but they share space with Yu-gi-Oh players who can't seem to communicate without screaming and I always have a migraine until noon the next day when I do go. I always get my ass handed to me, but I always leave with new ideas too.

[Kazekirimaru]

Just started Attack on Titan. It's the first anime I've watched in 8 years. Thoughts: listening to everything in Japanese is a bit weird, the spastic weather effects are strange, same with the super intense facial expressions, but overall the art style is fantastic and the story rocks.

[DroppinSuga]

Give me a group without infinite combos over a group with combos anyday. I'd much rather test my skills over the long term then use my tutors to turn 4 combo out.

[Khaospawn]

But then again, this is all coming from the guy with a $2,000 1v1 Kaalia deck that is capable of winning on turn 2 and play MLD, so what do I know?

I would think that having something that powerful and linear would get boring after a while. Hell, I'm already getting a bit bored of the Thada Adel deck I proxied up. I'm guessing you save it for special occasions where you need to stomp a few fools extra hard.

Yeah, it's kind of like having that restored muscle car in your garage
that you only take out once a month on the weekend. At least, that's how I imagine it.

It represents the heart of my collection. The day I part with it is the day I make a very big decision.

I rarely play it, and yes, it's there to embarrass and win. But it feels so good to cut loose with it. Occasionally, I'll keep it 1v1 and play a multiplayer game with it, and while I rarely can beat a whole table with it since I'm public enemy number one, it does make for some fun and funny times.

[DroppinSuga]

I think with EDH it's important to show up to each group with different decks. If I see certain people, I pull out the combo decks, otherwise I play other decks or I remove the combo pieces and replace with other cards

[Khaospawn]

I think there just comes a point as an EDH player where you reach a level similar to a Kung-Fu guru; yes, you can kill a table on turn 3 or deliver a 5 point palm exploding heart technique punch to kill someone, but is it really worth it? I see myself as 'above that.' I'd much rather play a game where I can test my limits. Sure, it helps to have that game-winning combo in your back pocket when you need it, but I shuffled and sat down at an edh table to play a game, not solitaire with an audience. If I wanted to masturbate while I combo out, I'll stick to Modern Storm, know what
I mean?

I'd personally love to be at that point. Truth be told, my group isn't going to help me get over that hump. No going infinite, no multiple turns, no Stax, no MLD... I keep coming up with ideas for my decks that might be awesome, but the group wouldn't allow because it goes against one of those rules they've set. There's another EDH group at a different LGS who are more competitive than casual, but they share space with Yu-gi-Oh players who can't seem to communicate without screaming and I always have a migraine until noon the next day when I do go. I always get my ass handed to me, but I always leave with new ideas too.

Hey man, restrictions breed creativity. Play fair like they do, but push the boundaries. Stay within the "guidelines" but do powerful things .

Play Zur, the king of enchantments. Voltron up and rape face. Or better yet, abuse ETB effects to make soft locks with Rafiq as your General. That way, the beatdown plan is your secondary
option.

Ultimately, play cards you enjoy. You'll figure out something within the boundaries of their rules. When you beat them, they'll have to raise the stakes.

[Khaospawn]

Talk about some restrictions : my beloved Jaya deck lost all 4 fetches, Crucible of Worlds, Sword of Fire and Ice, Batterskull, Gamble, Vesuva, and Karn Liberated.

All the heartache.

Fortunately, losing these powerful cards opened the door for me to play more Red card draw : Faithless Looting, Dangerous Wager, and....something else that draws. Lol, I forgot what it was.

The only thing that I couldn't sell from it was a beat to hell Wasteland...so yeah, Jaya still gets to rock some targeted LD with that, Dust Bowl, Strip Mine, and Aftershock.

[DocLawless]

I think there just comes a point as an EDH player where you reach a level similar to a Kung-Fu guru; yes, you can kill a table on turn 3 or deliver a 5 point palm exploding heart technique punch to kill someone, but is it really worth it? I see myself as 'above that.' I'd much rather play a game where I can test my limits. Sure, it helps to have that game-winning combo in your back pocket when you need it, but I shuffled and sat down at an edh
table to play a game, not solitaire with an audience. If I wanted to masturbate while I combo out, I'll stick to Modern Storm, know what I mean?

I'd personally love to be at that point. Truth be told, my group isn't going to help me get over that hump. No going infinite, no multiple turns, no Stax, no MLD... I keep coming up with ideas for my decks that might be awesome, but the group wouldn't allow because it goes against one of those rules they've set. There's another EDH group at a different LGS who are more competitive than casual, but they share space with Yu-gi-Oh players who can't seem to communicate without screaming and I always have a migraine until noon the next day when I do go. I always get my ass handed to me, but I always leave with new ideas too.

Hey man, restrictions breed creativity. Play fair like they do, but push the boundaries. Stay within the "guidelines" but do powerful things .

Play Zur, the king of
enchantments. Voltron up and rape face. Or better yet, abuse ETB effects to make soft locks with Rafiq as your General. That way, the beatdown plan is your secondary option.

Ultimately, play cards you enjoy. You'll figure out something within the boundaries of their rules. When you beat them, they'll have to raise the stakes.

Sage advice, redbro.

Sometimes I just feel like some of their "guidelines" are only there because they don't know how to play around them. No infinite combos is one thing. I agree with that. And no infinite turns, or taking excessive multiple turns, I can agree with too. But no stax effects? No winter orb/stasis effects? Even infinite mana combos that take 3+ pieces to assemble, are easy to disrupt, and do nothing unless I can use that mana... I just think we should re-evaluate some of these guidelines we have. Then again, I'm just one guy at a table of four to eight people, depending on the day.

Rafiq has interested me for a while now...
maybe I'll look into that.

[Khaospawn]

Also, Doc, remember that when you sit at a game, if you can't identify the fish, then you are the fish.

Be a shark. And if you're not the shark, become one.

Take down the big dog at the store. If you can't, learn from him. And then beat him.