Dies to Removal

To be honest even if new archetype (something like my tokens) spawn right now, rotation is so close that I dont give a shit about it. Better have more strenght for after rotation

@Dauntless

Sry for not answering. I really liked Rise the Alarm, when I cast it it did around 4-6 damage, or eat 2 removal spells. Also liked the fact it didnt go to the top when control put it on the top.

3-2 drop in 8 round wmcq.

Won 2-0 vs bw midrange
Won 2-0 vs gr devotion
Won 2-1 vs uw sphere controln with archangel ram sb. Glare, pillar, chains ftw.
Lost 1-2 vs mono black devotion with full specters and garys. Game 1 and 3 which I lost was because I drew 8 lands (kept muta, 2 scry forge 3 spellls, swung with mutavaults turn 2 those games, spells got thoughtseized) scryed like 6 cards to a bottom with lands and jets. Lost because he had 2 specters each time that stole 4LIGHTNING STRIKES on a fucking first swing. 4 attacks, 4 strikes stolen. Those specters did like 10 damage and then I lost to 1 merchant...
Lost 0-2 to burn. Game 1 on a draw kept 2 lands with scry and jet when he mulliganed, missed 3rd land even with magmajet on turn 2, and when he cast yp without mana up couldnt cast my own and shock... didnt draw 4rd land while he just cast 5 spells plus swing with phoenix. I saw how did he sb vs burn as he
played near me, he kept phoenixes and had FULL 4 RAMS... he said he didnt want to loose a mirror match, and he was right... I sb out all creatures and board chains, glare, deicide. He just cast ram turn 2, stoke with ram turn 3, helix, helix, 2 charms while I couldnt find anything to stop his repetable lifegain and it was impossible to race (kept 3 lands, jet, charm, stoke and skullcrack).

I dropped from the event asI didnt have chance to top 8 anymore.

Raise the alarm thoughts: great vs conrol as it does huge amount of damage before jace and forces them of using jace +1. Good vs black or bw, as they can bile blight them for 1 for 1, however those tokens did like 6 damage. Other time they did 3 and eat downfall and devour flesh. Not awsome vs green. Mediocre vs burn: can eat YP, needs potential 2 removals, however not good if you are on sb all creatures plan.

While I think I got unlucky vs black, imo I dont have a clue how to play burn mirror wihout dedicated sb. To me it is a goldfish game,
especially now with so many 4 burn to a face. You dont have to get rid of anything that is not yp, and need only ~5 spells to win. With dedicated sb strategy it might be different.

2 CTTR + 2 RTA might be an option, too, I think.

Problem is I can only manage to have 2, maybe 3 slots (if I cut stoke/helix) free. I dont want to cut magma jets, as I always thought it was one of the best cards in a deck. How would a deck look like with 2 RTA and 2 CTTR? 2 skullcracks?

Ok here is a list based on lat MDU lists:

[deck]
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Raise the Alarm
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

7 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Battlefield Forge
1 Temple of Malice

Sideboard
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil/Trouble
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Skullcrack
1 Deicide
1 Banishing Light[/deck]

I currently have 19 Red and 11 white sources with 4 mutavaults and 5 temples. Really want to fit 6th temple, however dont want to cut mutavault, and 19 red is safe for RR on turn 3, which is somehow crucial for this deck (either Phoenix or YP + Shock). I think 11 White sources is enought.

Really like the idea of Raise the Alarm, however I can see playing 2 Chain to the Rocks in this spot - it would give me better game vs mono
Blue, Monsters and GW/Naya agro, while worse vs Planeswalkers and Control, similar vs Small agro.

SB is copied from one of the MDU list, I really like his configuration. Deicide is really good addition.

I understand that Raise the Alarm is experimental card and the safest choice might be cutting them for Chained to the Rocks. That would give me 1 free sb slot, probably for something like Wear/Tear, Reprisal or Pilar of Light. Probably Pilar of Light, as it kills both Nyx Fleece Ram and Archangel of Thune.

Currently testing out some new technology for Rw Burn which I've stolen from dauntless268 so far it seems promising, if it makes it through the grinder it could make for an interesting twist in a way we can tackle all three archetypes at once (without just being better or how my opponents like to say luckier)

Spark Trooper or Wild Richochet?

Which part of his approach are we ignoring?

He is playing Seering Blood over Chains.
He cut Magma Jet for Stoke in Flames

I dont know, however I felt pain about watching Sperling playing. I think he lost game 1 because he didnt cast helix or boros charm when opponent tapped out for revelations.

Moving forward, which version of a deck is best (not for PT, but for sth like GP, SCG or WMCQ?)? Chains in MD or stokes in MD version?

I'm not so sure. I think people just want to play Hushwing because it's new.

I partially agree here. It's pretty nuts vs Genesis Hydra and Hornet Queen.

It doesnt work vs Genesis Hydra. vs Green it works only vs Reclamation Sage, Hornet Queen and Heal-Centaur. However do we even care with them gaining life as in this matchup I think going control is what we should do? (maybe depends if you see caryatid?)

Patric Chapins take on Burn with commentary:

Going back to the Naya-front: I wonder, is it possible that R/W Burn is supposed to consider splashing green? How much does it really cost us?

[deck]

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Mountain
3 Mana Confluence
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Triumph

4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
2 Stoke the Flames
4 Warleader's Helix
Sideboard
4 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Skylasher
1 Banishing Light
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil[/deck]

So the theory is that we beat Black Devotion and B/W because of our burn package. By sideboarding a million pro-blue creatures, maybe we can steal enough free wins against Blue Devotion to turn the matchup around. They might also add a nice dimension
against U/W, if we should have to face one. This would hurt our aggro matchups, so it’s a calculated risk, but I kind of just want to hate out black and blue devotion decks.

Thoughts?

Also his take on "Big Burn" with commentary:

I had considered Soul of Shandalar in a R/W Burn deck, giving us more staying power against black decks. The thing is, that’s already a good matchup. Is the Soul of Shandalar doing enough elsewhere? It does require us to play more land to support it...

[deck]

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Soul of Shandalar
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

10 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Stoke the Flames
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

You might have noticed I snuck a couple Anger of the Gods in there to try to steal some free wins against aggro decks and blue devotion. It’s probably more
of a sideboard card than a maindeck one, but Soul of Shandalar does encourage us to be more of a midrange deck. Even when playing a more normal R/W Burn deck, I would definitely want access to some Anger of the Gods in my 75. It’s one of the most underrated cards in Standard in my opinion.

You know, we could just embrace the creatures, be willing to make their removal good, and pick up stuff like Young Pyromancer, Prophetic Flamespeaker, and Stormbreath Dragon.

Last sentence is similar to a RW tokens shell that was popular some time ago.

I can't take duscussion where you're calling card 'Hush!' seriously.

I don't have any opinion right now, I'm not playing much standard yet. I think the card has a lot of potential.

Sorry about that, typing from tablet and writing Hushwing gryffin takes a lot of time without auto-fill. When I go near computer I will change it. I didnt want to offend you...

Hushwing is much better if you want a proactive strategy post board. Obviously not good if you want to play a control mirror

Another deck that Hush! Is good against is mono blue/devo green vs master of the aves/nyleas disciple and reclamation sage. However vs those decks you want to play control (I assume vs green). My question is if you dont want to play Hush! Vs black would you still put it in sb to play against g and u devotion? I dont think it changes how you play as a control in sb games, however there might be no other cards to board it out from.

Btw would you sideboard Pillar of light vs blue? Killing only weird and thassa...

I think vs MBC after board, I want 2 assemble, 2 banishing light, 2 Chandra, 2 pillar of light; with that in mind I think i would actually cut 4 Boros charm and 4 Skullcrack...my worry isn't them gaining life; I just want to draw cards and answer their threats. Being able to deploy cards to the board helps to fight their discard strategy; once any ca engine gets online you're often going to get ahead quite quickly.

This is a first time I heard about this kind of sideboard plan vs black. It would also kill the concept of Hush! Vs them.
What is your position on Hush!?

I killed it at FNM tonight with the Saito list running Stoke in the Mortars main spot, Mortars over Reckoner, Pillar of Light over Reprisal, and Hushwing over Wear//Tear.

A few notes :

1) Flamespeaker is fucking bonkers.

2) Hushwing embarrasses Master of Waves for all the lolz and is just absurd.

3) Exiling an attacking Thassa with Pillar of Light is a beautiful thing.

I never got to cast the singleton Stroke, but I'm sure it would've been nice.

Good job, keep it up!

I think point of running Stoke the Flames is to not have dead cards game 1. Didnt MDU said it already? Isnt it obvious?

Btw I like idea of Hushwing Gryffin in sideboard MDU. I think this will be my backup deck for events if I dont find anything more interesting.

Not quite sure Pillar is better than Reprisal. Exiling creatures only seems to be relevant with Whip.dec and Souls (which I don't think will see play)

Also vs Weird, Thassa, Courser or Gray Merchant.

I'll be more active when standard is relevant again.

GP Utreht in ~4 weeks, WMCQs starts in ~5-6 weeks. Anything going on that isnt burn?

Will anyone from DtR be attending GP Utrecht?

I am thinking about it.

I'll be more active when standard is relevant again.

GP Utreht in ~4 weeks, WMCQs starts in ~5-6 weeks. Anything going on that isnt burn?

Then try out my deck. It is really good.

If there would be any agressive deck other than slight or burn I would probably also help out. Currently I am only enjoying modern, might record daily or such for it.

I dont think MDU was talking about not playing Helix, just as an option to suplement playing with Helix in place of stuff like mortars (ued for dragon and blood baron and another efficient removal, however close to completely blank vs control anyway).

Am I right MDU?

@Rhyno

Probably it is worse than helix, however for playtesting purposes I can see it would be good way to test it out.

So what do you guys think - the new Convoke Burn spell is worth playing? If yes what are we looking to cut? (I cant see myself cutting anything from the md).

The same Firedrinker would be brought. Control only probably. Question is who does more damage there: Eidolon or Satyr.

I dont know about states but I un-officially won 80 people iq with junk pile last holidays when I visited sister. Sold all valuable cards from reanimator, so had to run junk tokens with scion of vitu ghazi etc. Took whole cash, gave ticket to my opp. Didnt loose a singlke game.

YP is more universal cards, usable in every matchup, while firedancer and eidolon have their own matchups to shine.. to an unsolved meta I would take Yp, to an solved one I understand @Z point about not bringing any other creature. Most times eidolon will do 2 dmg, and any burn spell would do 2 or even more. I however like mdus point of him vs contol.

Attacking with mutavault, magmajeting to setup your draws, playing boros charm or lightning strike or just playing another scry land isnt good play?

I dont disagree with wild guess, however it isnt even card advantage.

Long time ago there was a burn deck playing Epic Experiment that finished top 16 in premier event.

Just saying ^^

One thing I noticed is the fact that noone is running banishing light in RWburn (no one means noone in scg).

I also am thinking flames of the firebrand are better than seering blood right now.

Why you want to play wear//tear when you can just play additional basnishing light?

Is our old favourite Viashino dead?

Btw do you still go for no creatures plan vs black / bg? Or it isnt good when we dont have assemble the legion to back this plan up?

Good value for good decklist Z, thanks if it was in response to my pm

Have grinders on friday while waiting for GP, might play in some standard events to get more byes. Also good having backup deck if I have to drop from main event as I suck in limited.

I played Flames of the Firebrand in md and it was awsome. Quote good to kill 2 pack rats with it. Ah memories

Playing with 8 tap lands (6 scry) and 3 viashino in sb, won with 2 viashino even when my op had blind obedience on board.

vs Black I Had toil and troubled.

Draw 2, Get 2 Chandra Phoenix Back, Deal 3. Opponent lost both games when he had whip and 4/4 pack rats.

G2 vs Red. Stabilize on 1 life, land BO, Land Chandra kill creature extort get 3 chandra phoenixes back. Next turn land Phoenix for block Extort +1 swing mutavault. Next turn land phoenix extort attack mutavault.
I didnt want to loose to lightning strike in response to BO trigger so I waited and ultimated Chandra Copying Helix 3 times. GG Sir finished at 15 life.

ACHIVEMENT UNCLOCKED

Searing Blood oposite Firedrinker Satyr with Young Pyromancer on board and 2 Chandra Phoenix in graveyard.

Imo biggest problem is Obzedat. I dont have any problems vs baron versions, however obzedats one are pain in the ass...

Junk is horrible matchup, almost unwinnable. But manabase kills this deck (or choosing to run all coursers, obzedats, downfalls lifebane zombies... Manabase cant support that color requairement, even with caryatid)

Another 6-0 wih MDUs burn.

Played MDU last version yesteday after PTQ, easy 6-0. 3 ASsembles, 3 blind obediences for those matchups where they matters are awsome.

Imo BO > Peak Eruption, but still needs testing. BO is useful vs monsters and obzedats also.

Green Agro , White Agro and Red Agro looks like they become more and more popular. First 2 doesnt run removal. Should firedanecers > Mortars now?

@Pedros: What happen too your junk deck?

It loses horibly to Esper and Mono Black.

If sth I would try to build this sweet Green Black Midrange. Less shocklands and taplands, doesnt loose too many cards and have same engine.

@Pedros: What happen too your junk deck?

It loses horibly to Esper and Mono Black.

As for Toil // Trouble I tricked my Esper opponent with a jace. He had 3 lands to split, and 5 cards in hand, so I knew he would just discard 1 of them. So I gave him all 3, and then Toiled him for full 7.

Toil is quite good also vs sphinx's revelation if u trick them to react on your turn. Like cast leathal spell on your turn, they revelate for bilion, you toil them for exact bilion.

Right now my Toil // Trouble was cast for 7 and 6 vs same Esper opponent.

messing around with a manabase like this. The extra scrylands is cool and putting pressure on your opponent to put you on certain cards is always fun lol. still a work in progress though.

4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Mountain
2 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Enlightenment

if we are able to splash into green, even off a couple scrys only makes me want to consider destructive revelry as a sb option. 2 damage instant kill your d sphere seems pretty good for us, if we can cast it

Nope you cant play sb card with 2 lands that make that mana. We play black mana to make Toil // Trouble BETTER, not to enable it. It is fine on its own.

Managed to 4-0 a daily with recent build (toil troubles in sb, 6 total temples, 2 guildgates, 3 muta with 3rd muta in sb along with 2 assembles and 2-1 split of mortars / spark trooper.

Beat BG Dredge, Esper Control (this matchup is so intense, I think he missplayed hard on his own upkeep, but that is only me), Jund Monsters and RG Agro.

Vs RG Agro, BG Dredge and Jund Monsters YP and his tokens are soo freaking good. Vs Esper 1 tokens from YP did like 2 or 3 damage ase he didnt do anything with it. I think it makes this card too awsome not to play.

Only 1 game I had problem with lack of mountains and red, where I had 2 temples (WR and WB) and mutavault.

I also played like 6 other 8 mans, where I mostly did 1-1, loosing to all mono black opponents, mono green and BG midrange deck. I think I sb wrong vs mono black (I consulted Z after playing all of those and I sb poorly. What he is saying makes total sense),
however games I lost mostly were very close plus I didnt see a single assemble those games. Anytime Assemble would win me a game within 2-3 turns. I also left my opponent on 2 life with magma jet and didnt find any burn in top 3 cards to finish him off (notice the fact 2 of those games he had 2 staff of death magus and devour fleshed his demon for 7).

As for mono G stompy that deck is really fast and all creatures are big. Dunno if that was just bad luck and his deck was blessed those 2 games (as he had played total of 4 aspect of the hydra and ranger's guile), however YP tokens arent awsome when he has nylea.

BG Midrange is deck close to the Junk Reid Duke was playing in invi, but without white. Curve of Scavenging ooze, Specter, Courser, Demon, Reaper, Gray Merchant. With all green and black removals those color is blessed and card advantage of courser and underworld connections and specter. He said mana is working fine as he is playing all dual in the world to make it work, but when I asked it is
much more stable than 3 color mana from jund monsters or Reid Duke junk. I felt really miserable when playing against him.