Dies to Removal

I dont really get why you are so ezcited with brain magot. I will say it again. How do you even have spot for this creature and what are ypu cutting for it? Most of the time you are forced to take removal as they could just kill magot to get the other card back. It isnt tidehollow sculler, which has 2 power and an exile a card complete,ly.

You are saying you take removal so they cant target your pain seer. When
do you even cast your pain seer then? Remember you can still kill in response so you dont even look in my hand(I think. Similar as killijg banisher priest targeting token in response).

Trigger still resolves, so you look at the hand. The card you choose to take simply goes back to the player's hand immediately.

This is incorrect. If someone is dumb enough to toss a removal spell at the maggot in response to the ETB trigger, here's the stack.

Remove card from hand
Removal

After the creature dies.

Remove card from hand
Return the card to hand

So, the card, which hasn't been chosen yet, is "returned". Now they resolve the exile effect and the card is permenantly gone. It's the old fiend hunter trick. So, in other words, if your opponent only has one removal in hand, he's screwed as you can just take it from him or he can kill your dinky 1/1 and get "thoughtsiezed".

Read the card again. It doesn't work that way.

Probably as good as Tormented Thoughts to be honest. For TT to be better, you need to have a bestowed creature AND be willing to sacrifice it AND have an opponent with a nearly full grip. The earliest that all is going to happen is turn four if you are playing Mogis's Warhound, and that's Magical Christmasland assuming you have it and TT and have had the enchanted creature survive! Not to mention I'd hate to topdeck TT on an empty board when I'm looking for action.

I'd only want that kind of effect against burn since our other matchups where we'd want the effect are already favorable. Even then, I'd rather just play Brain Maggot against burn. It's a real beating for them. In fact my sideboard should completely eschew Peak Eruption and opt to complete the playset of Brain Maggot because of how good it is against them.

@ Val, I like the list. But shouldn't spiteful returned be Mogis's Warhound? U already have the Scarhide to bestow at cmc 4, the warhound gives you more options on t3. Also, I'm really curious to try out Tormented thoughts. In a deck with bestow creatures it seems like it can do some damage. Bestow a warhound on a cackler,sac the cackler to make ur opponent discard 4? And ur still left with the creature! How about this:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pain Seer
4 Spike Jester
4 Mogis's Warhound
4 Herald of Torment

Other Spells
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dreadbore
2 Tormented Thoughts

Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mana Confluence
8 Swamp
[/deck]

It may or may not need to
be Warhound. As I stated in an early post, two drop into bestowed Warhound is big, but Spiteful Returned is easier on the mana base. The greedy person in me says go with Warhound, especially if it's only a two-of.

I haven't thought about Tormented Thoughts yet, but I feel like it belongs in a more midrange build or something with Master of Feasts. If we're splashing red we have to ask ourselves if Rakdos's Return is just better.

I dont really get why you are so ezcited with brain magot. I will say it again. How do you even have spot for this creature and what are ypu cutting for it? Most of the time you are forced to take removal as they could just kill magot to get the other card back. It isnt tidehollow sculler, which has 2 power and an exile a card complete,ly.

You need to reread Tidehollow Sculler. It does not exile a card permanently unless you do some stack tricks.

I'm not sure what your exception with the card is. Perhaps you are having difficulty with understanding the gain in tempo you receive from playing the card. Imagine the following scenario:

I'm on the play against GR Monsters and play Rakdos Cackler and Pain Seer on my
first two turns. Opponent plays two lands and a Caryatid. On my third turn, I cast Brain Maggot and see a hand with Polukranos, Mizzium Mortars, Stormbreath Dragon, and three lands. My hand consists of Herald of Torment, Dreadbore, Spiteful Returned, and a Temple of Malice. Which card do you take?

If your answer was Mizzium Mortars, you got it wrong. The pick is actually Polukranos. Now my opponent has only one choice for his turn three play: Mortars my Brain Maggot to get back Polukranos (assuming he doesn't topdeck another one). That is a HUGE tempo play because instead of being able to play his fatty to block my guys down he has to waste another entire turn killing my 1/1 while I get in for additional damage AND gain value from Pain Seer. Not to mention that if he topdecks a Courser to play on turn three I have the removal spell in hand ready to go!

You are saying you take removal so they cant target your pain seer. When do you even cast your pain seer then? Remember you can still
kill in response so you dont even look in my hand(I think. Similar as killijg banisher priest targeting token in response).

Trigger still resolves, so you look at the hand. The card you choose to take simply goes back to the player's hand immediately.

When you cast Pain Seer is entirely matchup and hand dependent. It would take an exhaustive amount of thought to list all the possible permutations.

You really think 1/1 for 2 is going to be good vs gw? Yes you take card but you cant attack or block with it, so this is basicly 1/1. It isnt lifebane zombie or sin collector to be good vs creature/spell decks.

Against GW decks that generally lack hard removal spells, it's a 1 for 1. I don't see why you couldn't play both Brain Maggot AND Lifebane Zombie, but it is interesting that Maggot can take Selesnya Charm and Advent of the Wurm whereas Lifebane Zombie cannot.

Also isnt gw bad matchup for your deck to begin with? Almost every
creature is stomped by theirs, and most of the time removal kills same cmc or lover, so you loose tempo. Also dont forget that green received their sweeper in thos set. We dont even know if gw is going to be good, currently top 3 decks are black, uw and mono blue. Vs uw and black magot is quite bad, while va mono u it acts as removal that can be domesticated.

A deck with so many bestow creatures, Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot, Dreadbore, and Hero's Downfall ought to be pretty well positioned against GW. I don't think the matchup would be OMGAWESOME in game one but I would conservatively say it should be 55-60% preboard.

I still dont know why you want to play it instead of pain seer, spike jester, pack rat, assassin or spiteful returned. Every other card from this list is plainly better.

Hopefully now you understand.

So is mono black or Rakdos better?

The real reason for the red splash is Spike Jester, Dreadbore, and Mogis's Warhound. Of course, Hero's Downfall is a more expensive Dreadbore at instant speed that can kill Master of Waves, but one mana makes a big difference in an aggro deck like this. Spike Jester is the biggest draw to red as it allows you to just win games when curving out with a one drop, which is much more likely to happen now that black has access to three two-power one drops. Mogis's Warhound provides a nice pseudo three-drop to suit a dude up with and is especially attractive on a Pain Seer, but is it necessary? Splashing red means running 2-4 Mana Confluence which is a big deal when paired with Pain Seer and Thoughtseize. That's a lot of damage to be taking.

Mono black may be the way to go. I think Brain Maggot is mandatory to be able to deal with problem cards like Blood Baron or anything from Naya
Hexproof, but it's a great tempo play on its own.

If the deck splashes red, I think it needs to be very light to cut down on the number of Mana Confluence the deck has to run.

[deck]
Creatures (28)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pain Seer
4 Spike Jester
2 Brain Maggot
2 Spiteful Returned
4 Herald of Torment

Spells (10)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dreadbore
2 Hero's Downfall

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
2 Mana Confluence
8 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Duress
1 Dark Betrayal
4 Pharika's Cure
2 Gift of Orzhova
4 Peak Eruption
[/deck]

I think this is where I want to be.

What is so impressive with brain maggot. When it is killed it gives card back, plus 1/1 isnt good body to begin with.

It's a tempo play. It allows you to get ahead on board early by nabbing a card from the opponent's hand and potentially screwing up their curve all while having another creature. If they want the card back, they have to use a removal spell on your dinky 1/1 instead of the Spike Jester or suited up Pain Seer you've been jamming down their throat.

Agent should be Cackler too. And the fourth Cackler could be subbed in for a Lightning Strike or Spiteful Returned.

But you're only running 11 red sources. This is a black heavy list. Not to mention the static +1/+1 advantage.

Something I'm considering:

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Pain Seer
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mogis's Warhound
4 Herald of Torment
3 Agent of the Fates

Spells (11)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Strike
3 Dreadbore

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mana Confluence
7 Swamp
[/deck]

Mogis's Warhound and Dreadbore are the real reasons to be in red. T2 Pain Seer into T3 bestow with Warhound is a VERY powerful line.