Dies to Removal

Watching the star city games open on saturdays must be what the rest of the us feels like waiting for the weekend football. Need hotwings badly.

The siege rhino picture show

Eww...

Its
The Junky rhino sieger show.. . .

i have had it with these motherfucking siege rhinos on this motherfucking plane of tarkir

Damn. thats good.

dtr, ctc
you and me
and siege rhino, baby

Never gonna siege you up, never gonna rhino down. . .

It would be nice if Dash just won the game instantly right guys

Are you being an serious? There's... probably a big difference between winning the game instantly and forcing a removal
spell out of an opponent but... then yeah. It would win the game sometimes on the spot, yeah. Which is what 5cc red things should be doing if you've done your job to that point.

It's difficult to take this comment seriously since not that long ago that's exactly what Hellrider (for four!), Thundermaw Hellkite, and Zealous Conscripts did on a consistent basis. Bonus points if you could chain two or more of them together on consecutive turns.

We really have no argument windstrider. They did, and so did falkenrath aristocrat and they they should continue to do so. Specifically, though, red (ish) card should just have some inherent card mechanics that provide things like: card advantage, temporal advantage, and disruption. Since we cant have protected threats (red) things like haste and things that occur regardless to how many counters their holding up is kindaa Good thing. Though, this forum is not to be taken seriously as indicated by the mexican siege rhinos.

Midnight, why are your posts always full of sentences that jump all over the place, watch where you're hitting enter you FUCK!

ah sorry.

Won the PPTQ today (amusingly it was like the wmcq run last year; went 5th, 2nd, 1st).

Good job man!

Ah yes, condescension after losing due to not knowing how a mechanic works. This is some quality FoS.

Condescension?
meh. see my sig.

I should have read the mechanic, which is one of the reasons I brought it up, I'm not ashamed of oversights, no none should be. The mechanic is ... wrong though, its a victim of ivory tower design. hell in this case i was.

Fos is constantly playing against the grain.

It would be nice if Dash just won the game instantly right guys

Are you being an serious? There's... probably a big difference between winning the game instantly and forcing a removal
spell out of an opponent but... then yeah. It would win the game sometimes on the spot, yeah. Which is what 5cc red things should be doing if you've done your job to that point.

It would have been nice if it couldn't be countered

Uhm, yeah. I'm starting to think that its
an intrinsic flaw of magic. I'd like to set my redmage bias aside for a second and just talk about "balance".

Except... talking about shit like that is easy to bore people with, but you all probably know red is being trolled pretty consistently (and not by our resident assholes).

Lets put it like this. You know how White trolls the fuck out of red decks sometimes? Red needs to do that
shit to blue intrinsically. Instead reds getting some really hand me down effects and they're not allowed to have nice things. Disrpution: i used to play ponza and wildfire aperture but effects like stone rain so land d strategies are out . That's actually fine, but they need to replace red disruption, with something disruptive. I'm thinking turf wound and Solfatara style effects should be standard in red as their disruption.

Secondly, after looking at DASH... I realize, how horribly easy it would be to design things like that which DO evade counters and/or make red a little better without saying "can not be countered" on every card. Though red should be able to get "Can not be countered versions of all effects for like 1 color less mana tacked on. . Thats rantish I'm sure, but I'm just kinda disappointed with the things they offer.
Red is supposed to get some kind of mana aceleration, but its pretty much second class dark rituals which aren't there so much because... well ... storm.
Its also been given "Loot" effects like faithless looting and Wild guess and other shitty things like that which don't provide card advantage nor efficiency. Now the chandra effect isn't terrible, in fact its pretty decent, but it does price you into playing things only on your turn. Sometimes thats enough.

Aside from red needing the same cards like "Dash" but with "put into play for its dash cost" and not "cast" there are a few other things they could really use to get there, so what we're doing isn't just the realm of "the greatest lavamancers ever on earth" but a viable alternative to any other color.

I might start harrassing Mike Rosewater with this. I mean fuck I've been playing this damn game my whole life, and what do i get? Cards I love to play with? No. I get sieged, and laughed at by mediocre control players. Jesus. . .

I don't really understand the point of his comment. If you fucked up an easy mechanic to understand, why would he suggest you start playing a more difficult deck to pilot?

Ah accumulated me beating everyone anyttime i've bothered to show up and playing with you know r/x scrumper aggro.
The idea is that fucking up that mechanic was a odd thing for me and... wait a fuckingminute@#$FUCKBBQ?

suggest you start playing a more difficult deck to pilot?

Standard... control... difficult...




Oh...hahahah... oh god..... omf...lol... o'stop kait, for a second
there I thought you were serious. That's why I stay here, you guys make me laugh out loud
at least once a day.

If it makes you feel better, goblin heelcutter is retarded in draft because it's dash is like double falter.

Thanks Lp. . .

and midnight_v wept.

Actually, you know I had a good run till then, i got to Tymaret my entire army. so you know ymmv

He sieged against his family, he sieged against his friends. Mostly he just sieged.

Fucking applause. I laughed out loud.

Also... I while playing a match realized. . . that I had not paid enough attention to the wording of dash.

So... for those of you who drink tears hear you go:

In the last round of FNM I had my control opponent dead (by my reading of dash) and as he countered the new haste dragon, and I responded "DASH!".He politely and quietly explained to me that dash does not put into play but casts for an alternate cost, an alternate cost which can be countered. Though, that wasn't the worst part, and since its you fuckers I'll tell you. Guy goes on to say (and he's being heartfelt NOT TROLLING) "I can see why you'd think that, I mean it would be perfect for red mana symbols have some effect that inherently works vs counters. He then makes this kinda sad/concerned face and goes "Why don't you just play control, man? You're pretty decent, so you could pilot it, and they get way better cards you have to admit?"

Rarely, have I embraced such humiliation...
Made an honest fuck up? Check.
Schooled like a sakura? Check.
Politely suggested to that leaving Vegas might be good for me, as the games are fixed.

Dear Wizards, why doesn't dash put things directly into play? Is it because you're love affair with blue is eternal?
Or is it that you just kinda feel like red by itself is for idiot scrumper fags? Tell us that we might amend.

Edit:

rhino, rhino rhino, siege rhino, rhino, siege siege, rhino rhino

Is that the theme to rawhide?

If not, "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino, Seige them Rhino, Rhinos! RHIINOS!"

One time I cosplayed as a cute girl. Some guy took my picture and put it on the 4chan. Shit was cash.

Wait.
Wut?


Jesus. This forum is insane.

The Maverick doth protest too much, methinks.

Knuckleblade and Butcher are not bad, they're just not that good right now, especially compared to Siege Rhino. Both are objectively good cards.

Uh-huh. Lets think.
A. I mentioned quite a bit the unbalanced mess of the cycle is what makes it dumb. So reiterating that they're bad compared to siege rhino, is stupid.
2. Fuck you. (just you know because you deserve it)

B. When I really think about it, no, they're not really very good. I think what's really needed is a criteria that of what makes a good creature compared to a Great/Good/Decent/Weak/Bad.
People do this with planeswalkers depending on how it Costs/protects itself/provides card advantage/wins the game.

Creatures can be judged in consequentialism however. Saying that "this card is good. On its own. In a bubble" while you may be tautologically correct, you're point is pretty much fucking irrelevant if they're not GOOD, when it matters.

Where it matters is when they're most likely to be played: Standard
Are they good in standard? No.
What are they good against? The popular removal at the time they're played? No?
How do that stack up against popular cards in the same set as them?
Will they make an impact in another format?

I don't know what the questions are but that shit of "No, on its own that's a good card" needs to fucking die.
The shell matters, the things going on around them matters, and what they do on and empty board and when
facing removal? Matters.

oh and TOM ROSS. (have a nickel, sweet thang}

It's the Christian thing to do...

hahahahaha! slow clap.

Kibler: I really didn't get it from the start. I thought siege rhino was his obvious choice for it makes sense its still green its in his chosen realm.
It just really turned me off to certain "pros" thinking about how that played out for his devotees.

Still... the cycle is terrible. Compared to rhino
Butcher is bad.
Knuckleblade is bad
Mantis Rider is actually good, but not better than any spot removal spell in the format which is bad.
Sutlai had a necromancer of some vein, but... he wasn't was he? So at least they got sidisi.

The thing is there is no reason for it, and I had to think about what maverick and alex, and Kait are saying about red (base red) being bad. Not that the strategies it could have are bad, but the strength of the cards they're given is generally fairly low. . . comparatively. There's a social contract really where red can get mediocre guys, nothing to protect them, and amazing burn, but that contract is too easily broken.

When released for a brief second I looked at Butcher and wondered if you could just get the Dos Rakis/aristocrats/Zombies thing going with him, but ...no its a false start.

Later, I sat and thought about what all the fos guys were really trying to play. When it was 4 thundermaw/hellrider/Falkenrath Aristocrat and great little humans or zombies vs Thragtusk and Resto.
I mulled the philosophy until I figured out that what most of them really wanted to play was something like "Demigod red", but despite Sam black and the R/W midrange deck that we were doting on recently. . .

Why the hell aren't you playing siege rhino

I don't think in that ultimately siege rhino will win the day. He's a set up for U/x control to win the day, because he excerpts so much more pressure on traditional aggro decks than control decks which actually LOSE 4 mana wrath but gained a few cheap sweepers keep little guys out.

Ultimately, I think the proper move for this season is... Siege Rhino, or some kind of *you* flavored control deck.

I've been reading James' articles, and I don't think the "Standard Bogles" deck hes endorsing (while kinda fun) is the deck people should be moving forward with. Not enough people are going to be able to "Tom Ross" that shit, and win because " I Tom Ross'd that shit".


But I sure as hell am going to give it a try!

Plus without someone saying something... anything different. you guys start to stagnate on witticisms. Go. Spam. go...

Shit, Midnight is having a full-fledged forum breakdown due to prolonged exposure to the Gutter combined with the raw, undulating realization of a life with Siege Rhino killing his poor ass over and over. These meltdowns don't pass quickly.

Man your Belza stations. We're not going to lose another soldier.

No. No. Unlike most resisters I looked at a Lightning Helix, on a 4cc guy, and said "Oh... So its like that" and have been killing people with that shit all season.
Its just... dissatisfying is all.
I've been doing well. I do weary of unbalanced cycles though, and I start to wonder right at the beginning are these
people stupid?
I keep hearing Pat Sullivan and Ced talking about how the "basic cable version" of butcher is a 5/4 for four and I keep waiting for one of them to say "but the rest of its pretty conditional and ...kinda bad"
I watched all season wondering why the hell people kept trying to force savage knuckle blade, and by people I mean Kibler, and Antony Lowry, though to be fair I should be used to that type of tripe from them. The amount of people that were following that was just...
So while I'm a bit indifferent to playing whatever silly shit they print. I'm baffled as to why they print shit cycles like that, and how the hell can peoples card analysis be so bad, so consistently.

also...
Loss of life - black / 3 damage... Lightning... something. something. meh.
Trample with fat butt green - green /... black
Hateful permanent that makes people cry - white... yep.

Never allowing tears to be collected because "Fuck it, lightning helix, has gone post op now. ." priceless.

I... I actually think... I do fucking hate you fucks.
kinda. . . this thread is like a trainwreck . . . or a fat girl dancing in a thong.

U/w heroic or Siege rhino. . . people keep saying this is the best standard ever.
I'd have thought a lightning helix creature would be in mardu.

What about the Brutal hordechief? Is there a deck that wants him?

New set is kinda demoralizing. Not much there.

Reality shift is a totally "fuck you" blue can do it all. Which I guess is in with magics history ...
so yeah

I guess you weren't playing last season when mono blue had the same effect mainboard

Oh now, I was there for packrat season. It was shitty then too.

The idea that the effect isn't going anywhere and isn't an occasional flash in the pant is the fuck you. Hell I guess I shouldn't bitch it could have been in green, and pushed even further for being so.
Oh fucking well.

New set is kinda demoralizing. Not much there.

Reality shift is a totally "fuck you" blue can do it all. Which I guess is in with magics history ...
so yeah

Red dryad arbor : a 1/1 goblin mountain with haste that deals you 2 damages every time you tap it (either for attacking or for mana).

Or I don't know maybe something like:

Good red card
Cost: Mountains
Good red card has no drawback.
Good red card does the things good red cards should do
OR
Does something important to magic in general that red cards are
generally denied in magic.
OR
Is a creature tacked onto a spell for an undercosted amount.
*/*

Such things would please me.
Rabble master was one such card. Young pyromancer as well.

I posted a deck in the developing section, I don't know if you guys can be twigged to give it a sec, but I've been having a blast with it and thought that I'd share, for those who might have missed it.

We play what works. We just prefer red.

Thats an odd thing... the implication being "red doesn't work right now". No, no... we play red "and a bunch of seasonal pet decks" seems closer to the truth.

Perhaps this will give the scrumps a glimmer of hope..............

---

Could be distracting. The heyday of red ending? Our clan seems so bare, hell Z is playing the ROCK!... strange days.

I'm not much one for giant monstering it up but.... phototitan is really pleasing for some reason.
The johnnymagic part of me wants to just sac him over and over again for fun and profit!

No...no... not gonna happen though.

I defend to my death your right to say that

Troll-lol-ol-lol-lol. . .

card is shit

Its not "good" but I hate it when they specifically word things, to be non interactive.
It opens the design space to bullshit. Its basically, a thing that works around anti-lifegain defense. Brining it back (because every so often we get a "Set your life to X") is just annoying.
I'd just rather thing like that not exist.

Resolute Archangel
Magic 2015
5 W W
Creature - Angel
Flying
When Resolute Angel enters the battlefield, if your life total is lower than your starting life total, it becomes equal to your starting life total.
4/4

How annoying.

That card... it looks cool but, to be honest Its not amazing. I hat to be in the sayer of nay camp, but yeah.
I remember I was getting some rabid responses like when I said: "Exava: She's not a thing" and "That phoenix is a worse version of vexing devil: It will see no play"

Just to analyze this servant card correctly, I think a couple things

1. It doesn't really have a deck "right now" Its not a red devotion card, and its not a RDW's card really (I mean you could force it but that doesn't make it a good choice), Jund which routinely accelerates into things has its acceleration plan locked down with its hexproof walls and whatnot. Its one of those things that doesn't inherently make anything better.

2. Mentioned before, but bearing reiteration, Red has nothing that it particularly wants to accelerate into. Mogis fanatic, is a card that most people are holding back on as a trump (
right, wrong, or most often circumstantially. Stormbreath Dragon is a similar cast, if playing some kind of sledgehammer-y thing you're pressuring a wrath out and playing it after; not playing it pre-wrath for 4 damage and the potential of a early removal spell. The Soul of Shittty-forgtten-plane, like most red titans in many ways he has the weakest effect of the cycle but further doesn't lend itself to being used with generator servant because a deck that wants to power out huge threats likely wants to do it consistently.

I'm won't go so far as to say its unplayable and bad, but that it requires a bit more on its own to be excited about. Come to think of it that goes for the titan as well... Hmm...

Hey LP, can you fit that titan into your devotion deck?

EDIT

I'm not buying any Khans of Tarkir because it rotates when the fall 2016 block becomes legal

Wait. WUT?

Happy birthday to RedNihilist!

HAHAHA This

Happy Birthday RedNihilist

Dolt was likely forced to download the beta which would explain his hatred of it, if you watch CFB vids you will see the old client hat most players use

Gotcha the old one it the one MDU mostly uses.
The new one... people hat that shit. When does it become mandatory? Actually fuck it google ho!

I thoroughly enjoy mtgo but doubt I will be continuing into the beta (July 16th) which I find nearly unusable

I hear that a lot. The beta is the ugly one with the gray background I take it.
What's wrong with it? I hear a lot of complaints about it... but all I get from them is "FUCK that I don't like it" I mean is the interface
designed by 13 year olds instead of 8 year olds? Or is it just... completely different?

QPs = Qualification points. They are used to enter the Championship Series events that they hold each month. You can get some pretty valuable promo cards for entering as well as a shot at a lot of money if you win the monthly event and qualify for the annual tourney.

Thanks for that post. Im like a million miles away from MDU territory though.

I mean, I hate mtgo as much as the next person but consistent misclicking shows a lack of basic mental and motor skills and not setting phases is pure user error of a system designed by an eight year old

That's an interesting point you bring up.
Why would there be user interfaces issues with a program you're new to?
*the world may never know*

So yeah, resist the urge to jump right in to paid events. Buy a cheap deck. (likely burn or sligh)
and spend a week familiarizing yourself with the ins and outs of the program.

The truth is we fuck up because: Impatience.

You sit down like "YES! Time to burn some folios" and really you actually need to sit the fuck down, and relearn to play with the
new toy.

@BlakLanner: Thanks
What QP's "_____ points"

Modo fucks me up as well L_D.

The last time I played I ... I remember misclicking in such a way that I shot my own, ash zealot with a lighting strike, the turn I was going to win.

I kinda walked away after that. The thing to do I imagine is spend a week in the practice room. Even then you're still going to lose some to misclicks occasionally I'd imagine.

What I want is instruction on things like Why "Don't waste time on 8 mans" and "How daily's are better" I don't know like "how to go infinite" etc

also...
Dat Garruck.
Dat necromancer's stockpile?

Apparently there is some problem with the switch the server is connected to. I've moved it to another location while this is getting fixed.

Also, since I couldn't get on the site yesterday, a happy belated birthday to Midnight_v.

Redbro, thank you. You're awesome. We of the forums rarely see each other, but its awesome that we take the time to give a damn. You're awesome.

I tried to tell you all...

Yeah...we didn't listen.

I didn't expect Kird Ape, but I was hoping for something playable outside of Limited.

Yeah they.... I guess they're still pushing g/w. One of the things done to appease certain pros.
So the White 1 is pretty good, and the red one... *shrug*

Kird Ape is not a real Magic card

hahaha! LOVE IT Thanks

By the time a Monsters deck can cast a fatty, they're usually within range of dying. Amiright, LP?

Yeah, I'm not buying this "its not a deck thing" it seems disparaging in the way of "I don't like it so its not a deck"...

Its like alex hasn't been reading tom ross, OR paying attention to the opens. It's clearly established that its Damned good vs midrange. Infact, thats the reason for playing boss sligh.



So what I'm really wondering is... "What determines, if something is a deck"?

Boss Sligh is not a real deck, its just good against clunky control decks.

@Midnight- it literally took me seconds to Google search and copy/paste.

Cool cool I think there's enough regeneration about here with out me doing it "unintentionally".

Finally... Grim Lavamancer!

Overall, I think the Boss sligh deck is one of the more degenerate things in standard and it steamrolls all the top deck

What is a "metagame"?

Metagaming -
Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.


The highest level of strategy in many complex games, metagame refers to any aspect of strategy that
involves thinking about what your opponent is thinking you are thinking.

Metagame comes into play in any game where no single strategy is dominant and opposing sides are aware of multiple strategies that can succeed dependent upon opponents' actions. In order to perform at the highest level, it then becomes necessary to think about what your opponent thinks you will do (which may depend on what he thinks you think he thinks he will do, etc.) and to make decisions based on clues regarding what level they are thinking on.

This term is most commonly used to refer to poker and other complex card games, but is increasingly being used in relation to video games with complicated player vs player elements and even traditional sports.

Ex-
"Normally I would raise the flop with this hand as a semi-bluff, but I've been so aggressive lately that taking metagame into consideration I think he will go all-in with any pair, so instead I'm going to fold."
Ex-
"This guy thinks that I'm going to
zergling rush which means he will waste resources defending early. Instead I am going to focus on resource development for mid game, and metagame will win me this match. "


"Meta" is short for metagame. You've been using the term correctly.

Damn man I'm sorry, you wrote all that: Poe's Law I guess
I meant in a "JEOPARDY" sense.
Like:"I'll take "THE WORLD AS IT SHOULD BE" for $1200 ALEX"
Answer: What is "a metagame".
CORRECT!

Overall, I think the Boss sligh deck is one of the more degenerate things in standard and it steamrolls all the top deck

Is that a good or a bad thing?

Also... it may be that Sligh IS the top deck for this meta. I think that's a good thing. They polarized the meta for a few months.

This shakes it up. I was right the more I think about it. G/W and WW exist only when red becomes a thing. Boss sligh makes Brave naya into a deck, and other things. No ones willing to go all in like that because there's going to be people playing revelation.deck no matter what the weather.

What is a "metagame"?