Archives[Primer] Boros Burn

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[Primer] Boros Burn

Post #1 by Pedros » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:22 pm

[deck]
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

4 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
27 Burn

Sideboard
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Boros Reckoner
2 Burning Earth
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Spark Trooper
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

Is it a fluke? (3 * 3-1 finishes in daily)

Meta is dominated by a devotion to permanents and mono removal decks. Most of the burns can be used as removal if needed. 4 main skullcracks should be good for limited amount of lifegain.
Also solid SB plan for agressive decks.
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Post #2 by Tyrael » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:22 pm

Seems legit

This seems like it'd stomp every aggro and midrange deck at my FNM
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Post #3 by Keftenk » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:48 pm

I thought about something like this, but with UR...
It had some success in a very low yield of testing, but I gave up on it due to MTG related events that I wanted to practice for with something else I had experience with.

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Post #4 by hoeiberg » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:18 pm

Could this work in RB? Erebos seems really good in burn due to the not gaining life thing and drawing cards when you run out of gas. And Rakdos' Return could really do a number on some of the slower decks. Furthermore Dreadbore succeeds in taking out troublesome walkers as well as creatures.

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Post #5 by Keftenk » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:40 pm

BR List from PTQ Dublin.

[deck]
26 LANDS
6 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph

7 CREATURES
4 Desecration Demon
3 Stormbreath Dragon

25 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Read the Bones
3 Dreadbore
3 Thoughtseize
3 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Magma Jet
2 Rakdos's Return

2 OTHER SPELLS
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

SIDEBOARD
1 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
1 Rakdos's Return
4 Duress
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Shock
2 Underworld Connections[/deck]

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Post #6 by Tyrael » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:31 pm

^ people have been running a similar list at my FNM

It seemed to have a bad matchup vs Esper which is a pretty popular deck atm
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Post #7 by Narcasus » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:07 pm

I have been testing that list some online, the R/W burn list. I found replacing the 3 Warleader's helix with Chandra' Pyromancer to be working better for me. This may be due to limited testing though.

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Post #8 by Elricity » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:35 pm

I don't like the 4 chained mainboard or the limited number of mountains and/or red sources as a whole. And I agree a couple Chandra would be better but I'm pretty sure the idea is that mainboard, you can use the lifegain to finish an "aggro" race and/or fuel paying the life for toil. I'm not amazingly excited about 4 toils on 4 black sources. I guess the idea is to have Trouble early before most decks have a thin hand? Also, I'm of the opinion that Helix is better than spark trooper except for those rare 6 mana turns where you can boros charm it (on 21 lands?) so you should 4 of those before trooper.

Also, pretty sure this deck doesn't need Anger when you're playing pyros and phoenixes. Maybe I'm wrong but it's not like Pyroboros needed it. I'd rather run a full set of Reckoners. Maybe whoever built it was really gunning to hate out Carytids?

How about this?

[deck]
Land 22
9 mountain
4 sacred
foundry
4 blood crypt
4 temple of triumph
1 temple of silence

Creature 8
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Others 3
2 Chained to the rocks
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet

Burn 27
4 boros charm
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet
4 shock
3 toil // trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard

2 Chained to the rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
1 Warleader's Helix
4 Boros reckoner
2 Spark Trooper[/deck]

I'm rusty on MODO meta so maybe I'm missing something.

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Post #9 by Elricity » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:09 am

Ok, I don't think this needs the w/b land but I do feel like it needs the extra land with all the 4 drops in sideboard. Honestly, it could use the 3rd vault sideboard with the amount of 4 drops that want to push in. I'm going to be ballsy and drop another mountain for a 2nd mainboard mutavault. The control matchup could use some help.


[deck]Land 22
8 mountain
4 sacred foundry
4 blood crypt
4 temple of triumph
2 mutavault

Creature 8
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Others 3
2 Chained to the rocks
1 Pyromancer's Gauntlet



Burn 27
4 boros charm
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet
4 shock
3 toil // trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard

2 Chained to the rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Burning Earth
1 Mutavault
4 Boros reckoner
2 Spark Trooper[/deck]

Bumming off MDU's sideboard plan back in the main pyroboros thread. Feel
free to pick at it.

[spoiler=3 color control:q6ekuecn]. -2 chained, -4 shock, -1 young pyromancer, -2 flames for +2 Mizzium Mortars (for BBV or SBD), 2 burning earth, 2 Chandra, 2 spark trooper, 1 mutavault.[/spoiler:q6ekuecn]

[spoiler=Rx:q6ekuecn]-1 pyromancer's gauntlet, -3 skullcrack, -4 boros charm, -3 toil//trouble, +2 chained, +4 boros reckoner, +2 spark trooper, +2 mortars[/spoiler:q6ekuecn]

[spoiler=mono u:q6ekuecn]+4 boros reckoner, +2 mortar, +2 chained, +2 spark trooper, 1 mutavault, -4 boros charm, -4 young pyromancer, -3 skullcrack. I don't think I need Chandra's falter here if I'm pulling out YP and I probably need the lifegain just to race.[/spoiler:q6ekuecn]

[spoiler=mono b:q6ekuecn]+2 chained, +2 Chandra, +2 spark trooper, +1 mutavault, -4 shock, -3 magma jet[/spoiler:q6ekuecn]

[spoiler=Gx devotion:q6ekuecn]+4 boros reckoner, +2 chained, +2 mortar, -4 young pyromancer, -4 boros charm[/spoiler:q6ekuecn]

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Post #10 by Elricity » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Ground through some tests last night and apparently just burning out mono U and trying as much as possible not to kill much else than Nightveil and Judge's familiar (preferably with shock) is the best bet. I ended up cutting both spark troopers to have it be a 4th helix and a rod of ruin.

It's the only deck where trooper is reliable life gain and even there, you don't need it. Anywhere else, it's so easy for it to get blanked when you need it most. It was nice that it dodged Judge's sac ability but that's about it.

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Post #11 by Narcasus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:02 pm

I think im ganna take this list for a spin this friday and see how it goes. I just need to pick up the blood crypts

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Post #12 by Elricity » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:33 pm

And toil // trouble for me. It's the cheap cards I always have the biggest trouble getting quickly. It's a solid 4-6 damage early which gets the race going so I am tempted to try testing the 4th.

I really want to mainboard Chandra but she can be fragile since you aren't clogging the board and sometimes just ignoring their creatures is the right call. Plus I don't want to clog my 4 slot game 1.

For mono blue, I want to test siding her in instead of mortars. I'm afraid she'd just be a fancy ping + fog but maybe it's for the best since I want other ways to kill that stupid Judge's Familiar (was surprised how often that messed up my plays). I only ever really want to mortars nightveil on sight due to the exile/card advantage part. Frostburn was either low damage or exposed itself to shock. I was surprised how slow blue's damage really is as a whole unless they hit that early MoW. Everything else I care about dies to
shock as well and I needed every card I could get to finish them off.

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Post #13 by Narcasus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:18 pm

how relevant has the gauntlet been for you? working well as a one of? i havnt played with the card yet.

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Post #14 by Elricity » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:39 pm

I like it because it's much harder to interact with in the meta than Assemble or Stormbreath. It's an answer in two turns or lose card. Play with it though and see how you feel about it.

That said, as a one of, it's only relevant when I draw it.

My only worry is about exiling it with Chandra on 23 lands. I was originally running 2 in a 24 land deck and it was amazing there.

I expect I'll bounce between this version and one of the Walter White varients just to throw people off.

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Post #15 by zemanjaski » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:57 am

Im going to be testing variants of this archetype next week, I think it is very well positioned.
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Post #16 by Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:19 am

Curious if gauntlet ends up being good. If it doesn't work here, it isn't working anywhere.

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Post #17 by magicdownunder » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:22 am

zemanjaski » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:57 pm wrote:Im going to be testing variants of this archetype next week, I think it is very well positioned.


IDK if I like running a "burn" list with decks packing 8x discard effects, no question you'll stomp aggro but control and midrange isn't a bye - if you had a chance to watch Arise, Phoenix Arise's performance during DEs you'll see what I mean.
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Post #18 by LP, of the Fires » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:04 pm

You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #19 by zemanjaski » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:02 pm

Now I'm sold.
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Post #20 by Keftenk » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:05 pm

O-o Spark Trooper ;o

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Post #21 by Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:46 pm

You guys thinks this deck is a real deal? Cant imagine playing it in something like GP.
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Post #22 by Keftenk » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:02 pm

Hmm, I'm not sure heh. I'm having a blast with it. Just Toiled//Troubled my opponent for 11 damage lol. Those Standard Event deck lists though are brutal, 21 mana had me screwed on 1 land hands countless, countless times. I've played 3 matches, 8 games total and I've had to mull every single hand except one.

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Post #23 by Keftenk » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:23 pm

I might take something like this to FNM tonight if I can track down some of the cards, just to see how it runs.

[deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Shock
4 Toil // Trouble
2 Warleader's Helix

Lands
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Mountain
4 Temple of Silence
[/deck]

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Post #24 by Yarpus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:31 pm

I'd probably play more creatures just to cut bad cards.

4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Shock
2 Warleader's Helix

22 lands

SB:
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Aurelia's Fury
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Wear // Tear

Toil // Trouble is probably the first card to cut. Really. Also, I'd consider Annihilating Fire instead of Skullcrack... but on the other hand Skullcrack is usefull in many matchups: Mono Blue (turning off damage prevent), Mono Black (grey merchant/whip) and UW. Maybe reduce them to 2.

Well, I'd also prefer to go big my old Kuroda Deck. It was basically a burn deck with higher curve and top-end finishers. Look at the list.

4 Ember Swallower
4 Stormbreath Dragon

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

2 Chained to the Rocks
2
Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack
2 Anger of the Gods

24 lands
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Post #25 by Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:39 pm

I like the 2nd one more to be honest.

Anyone Dega Big Burn? I like exava into dragon as 4/4 hasters
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Post #26 by Narcasus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:25 pm

You mean i can light people on fire AND attack with dragons? i think I'm sold.

Quick thinking on a SB

Burning earth 2
Hammer 2
Anger of the gods 2
Chained 2
Mortars 2
Reckoners 4
assemble? 1

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Post #27 by Aodh » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:33 pm

The only appropriate creatures for this deck are Chandra's Phoenix and Young Pyromancer. This deck likes to blank removal, so if we have creatures, they better draw out more than one removal spell. I'd like a split of 2 Flames of the Firebrand and 2 Toil // Trouble. This deck really needs to keep all cards live in the maindeck so that we don't just get beat up by aggro while we go: Skullcrack, Trouble for 2, Skullcrack Boros Charm, lol. I played Boros Burn for several months (I'm RDW?'s friend who developed the deck with him), and we don't that many stiff spells.

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Post #28 by Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:35 pm

I think that if you cut Toil, you lose the option of actually being a burn deck. Test it before you cut it.

I'm not a huge fan of the spark troopers but I know they're there for the potential to turn boros charm into more lifegain.

Guys, this might actually be the wrong deck for Chandra. Her +1 is quite a bit weaker without creatures to back her up.

Is the scry from the other set of temples is important?

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Post #29 by zemanjaski » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:58 pm

Id switch Cackler for YP; it's better on any turn that's not turn 1.

The scrylands help compensate for no Mutavaults; they also let you cast both sides of Toil // Trouble.
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Post #30 by Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:14 pm

What I mean is Temple of Silence's scry better than either Blood Crypt or Godless Shrine's shock? I suppose it's what let's the list try and get away with 21 lands. I'm screwing around goldfishing it now.

Cackler seemed to be a weird choice. The whole deck tries to get around common answers and then he puts in one of the easiest cards to blank. Shrug.

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Post #31 by Aodh » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:34 pm

I would be running:

[deck]Creatures
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Annihilating Fire
2 Warleader's Helix

Land
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Mountain
4 Plains

Sideboard
4 Toil // Trouble
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Wear / Tear[/deck]

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Post #32 by Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:46 pm

Don't do the plains. You want the narrow chance of casting Toil or even both together because sometimes Trouble is the bad part of the spell. W/B or R/B dual of some type or drop Toil // Trouble altogether.

So far with the 8 temples, 21 lands is working. Go fig.

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Post #33 by Aodh » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:02 pm

Not a fan of 8 taplands in a mana-hungry deck, but this is with no recent testing of course. I'd probably run 2/2 split of scrys and shocks.

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Post #34 by zemanjaski » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:19 pm

Elricity » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:14 am wrote:What I mean is Temple of Silence's scry better than either Blood Crypt or Godless Shrine's shock? I suppose it's what let's the list try and get away with 21 lands. I'm screwing around goldfishing it now.

Cackler seemed to be a weird choice. The whole deck tries to get around common answers and then he puts in one of the easiest cards to blank. Shrug.


My advice is always to try the deck as is, even if sonething seems obviously wrong. Often you need to get a feel for how the deck plays before you can really understand all the interactions.
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Post #35 by Yarpus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:31 pm

I get the point on rendering removal useless. Still ...
Burn deck looks pretty bad against BTE Aggro decks. All you can do is 1-for-1. Even if most of your cards are flexxible removal-wincon, one stumble and you're dead. Playing bigger creatures makes the whole situation better as you get access to premium anti-creature card, AoTG.
And it's not like removal is really good against you. Your main wincon is burn, but you can finish off games on the back of dragon.
Sound like a plausible idea for me.
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Post #36 by Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:39 pm

Ok here is the list I would like to try and will play some matches today:

[deck]

Creatures:
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Stormbreath Dragon

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
3 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
3 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

2 Mutavault
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Silence
4 Sacred Foundry
6 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Anger of the Gods
1 Doom Blade
3 Toil/Trouble
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Skullcrack
1 Ultimate Price
1 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars

[/deck]

12 Haste creatures with sort of protection on each of them:

Phoenix fly, and can be recoured by most spells
Exava is black and multicolored, is 4/4 and has first strike
dragon fly, pro white

24 lands with 8 scry to set up later turns. I will try 2 mutavaults to see if they can be good here. Total of 12 white sources (7 white mb, 3 Sb), 8 black (4 mb, 2 sb) and 18 red.
n
SB is work in progress.

Thougts? Is Exava too much?
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Purp
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Post #37 by Purp » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:45 pm

Pyromancers Gaunlet?
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Post #38 by Pedros » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:51 pm

Dunno, first will test dragon and exava as a solid 3-4-5 punch haste creatures.
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Post #39 by Elricity » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:44 pm

Purp » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:45 pm wrote:Pyromancers Gaunlet?


As much as I wanted it to work, it's probably too slow, particularly with these 21 land builds. Sideboard...maybe. The deck really wants to be non-interactive and fast. It can't clock as fast as one drop versions but it's harder to stop.

@Z and Aodh: Yep, getting why the scry lands are in here now.

@ Yarpus: I understand but I think the lifegain mainboard is to handle BTE and Anger just shuts it down.

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Post #40 by Keftenk » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Played with this on the side last night at FNM, only played 3 decks. It's fun, but I'm not too sure how it stands versus real players playing real decks /shrug

[deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Shock
2 Warleader's Helix
4 Toil // Trouble

Land
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Mountain
4 Temple of Silence

Sideboard
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

These were the results:

otD vs UB Devotion 2-0
otD vs GU Devotion 1-2
otP vs Esper Control 2-0

I tried getting a match up with either the Mono White or Mono Red
Devotion that was there, but they were going late in their games while I was waiting for everyone else to finish :(


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