Archives[Primer] G/R Monsters

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[Primer] G/R Monsters

Post #1 by Link » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:43 pm

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"Roots, ruins, and room to fight. All the comforts of home." -Domri Rade


What is G/R Monsters?
The idea is to ramp out into huge CA engines like Domri Rade, Xenagos, Chandra, and Courser of Kruphix or ramp out 4 and 5-drops that are very hard to deal with off-curve and monstrous them earlier than it should be. This deck uses excess mana very well, and has very diverse and resilient game plan against control.



The Game Plan

This is what G/R Monsters offers compared to other archetypes:


-Power
This deck can lay down huge intimating board states. Ruric Thar is not fun for blue mages to deal with.
Xenagos, God of Revels gives your next drops huge power and can threaten to take down mono black through their demons and life gain.. Having two planeswalkers resolved is nearly unbeatable. Especially if they come down under curve:

-Acceleration
Ramp is very powerful and one of green's strong points. If you play powerful cards earlier than your opponent can deal with, you can take over games. Not just ramp, but Gruul also has velocity with Burning-Tree Emissary. Being able to play multiple cards a turn is actually very valuable in magic, hence the secret +1 mode on Xenegos that lets you dump your hand against other midrange and threaten ultimate (his ultimate is very real against decks without board wipes).

-Threat Inevitability
Almost every card needs to be a threat. This is so that no matter what the hand spread, no matter what you draw, every card contributes to the same goal of smashing, and winning. I've taken a liking to having 0 answers MB,
with only Domri and Chandra as conditional removal, and just play the game of slamming questions into their face. Accelerating into answers (like mortars) is situationally very powerful, but answers make the game go later and your late game is filled with topdeck mana creatures. This has become somewhat less true with the decks reliance on Sylvan Caryatid, but I'm still a firm believer in Gyre Sage.

-Planesawlkers
I think the G/R line up of Planeswalkers is the best in standard currently. I may be biased, but Jace looks silly compared to Chandra and Xenegos and what they offer for their archetype. It is also still damn near impossible to be a T2 Domri Rade on the play, I don't care what deck you're on.

The Creatures

The Mana Creatures
Elvish Mystic: This guys strength is a bit hidden. Most importantly, he allows you to stay on curve on T2 while allowing you to play a tapland. Obviously T2
domri is fine, but there arent many 3 cmc plays worth ramping into, so I especially like T2 2-drop with guildgate. With tragic slip and pillar gone, he gets to stick around longer than he used to. He can be a bad topdeck, but I've drawn him with Domri, bloodrushed him, and Boon satyrd him up many a time to not give him his credit.

Gyre Sage: I like to split dorks into two categories: Threat ramp and fixing ramp. Gyre Sage can ramp you, especially with Burning-Tree, but importantly she is threat ramp. She is ramp that, when you play the big dudes and evolve her, she also can get in the red zone and be an awesome value creature. See 2-cmc for more.

Sylvan Caryatid: Mana fixing and holds down the fort in aggressive meta. Not an actual threat at all, so be wary running her in a midrange/control meta.

Voyaging Satyr:Fixing ramp, and a 1/2 is important because he can evolve experiment one. Most importantly, he&
#39;s fixing that can attack, be scavenged on, be boon satyrd ( 5/4 isnt bad in combat), etc. .

Zhur-Taa Druid: Hey I like this guy. He is threat ramp as well like Gyre, except he reliably ramps you the turn after he comes down. Both him and Caryatid die to anger and verdict all the same, so if you're against control you want your ramp to actually kill them. Chandra+Him adds up against midrange decks, but he's a sad thing to see against aggro when he could be the plant again. I don't like running him and plant, as it was too much durdle ramp for my tastes, but your mileage may vary.


1 Drops
Experiment One: My verdict is out on this guy. He tested very powerfully when he came down on T1 and I curve out or double evolved him with BTE+Sylvan Caryatid. Then the rest of the time he was just an awkward card that asked me to slow down my tempo to get value out of him,
and I rather not do that. I figure guildgates will be my other T1 play, and this guy can stick in the low curve midrange decks that don't have value engines like PWs.


2 Drops
Burning-Tree Emissary: This might look out of place in a midrange deck with very little other targets to chain into, but she does a lot of things. She can fix mana into double red for hammer (and then attack cause hammer!), be played out with Domri on T2 to protect him (or fight an opposing dork), and can be easier to cast that Tusker on curve. She pressures control pretty handily if you can chain 2 of them also, or if you just go BTE+ZTD. Those two go well together.

Gyre Sage: Gyre 'Goyf. This guy is putting up results for me. She is the middle ground between ZTD and an 0/3 plant. Its a card that can ramp you, can beat down, and can definitely soak up some removal. Inconjunction with BTE she can ramp you 1
mana and double evolve that turn which is a huge deal. Turns out 3/4s for 2 mana is a steal. I think this card is pretty underrated and is going to overperform when I take this list to a big tournament.

Kalonian tusker: I think this guy is our new Strangleroot. No he's not as good, but he's a damn 3/3 for 2. He's in contention with BTE, but if you're running the plant for fixing and not ZTD, I think he's worth the slot. He pressures control hard enough to get them to tap out to deal with him (which is answered by playing a bigger threat or Planeswalker), and also stonewalls aggro and wannabe cats just the same.


3 Drops
Boon Satyr: The literal nuts. This guy is insane. He looks innocent, but he's a combat trick, a wrath protection card, removal spell all bundled into one awesome package.

Witchstalker: I think this
card is a bit underrated. Its a solid 3/3 vs. aggro that can't be interacted with, and its a safe body to Boon Satyr enchant against doom blade decks. The "during your turn" restriction limits it to getting counters solely off counterspells, but its fine. We're really lacking on 3-drops.

Courser of Kruphix: The king of value and what put this deck solidly into competitive along with Xenagod in BotG. The value this guy generates coupled with Chandra, Domri, and scry lands is just insane. Its a 3-drop the deck desperately needed if you like value.

Fanatic of Xenagos: While comparatively less reliable that Kruphix and not a CA engine, this guy goes great with the god himself because of the trample and also just serves a more aggressive game plan if that's your style of smashing (it definitely is mine).


4 Drops
This is where our deck takes off. Ramp into 4+ drops, these are
the big players. I feel like the backbone power of this deck is playing 4-drops that are "dual" cards with their monstrous keyword.

Deadbridge Goliath: This guy does work in ways Polukranos can't. He's easier to cast with the mana base sometimes, and his scavenge is very relevant at making topdecked elves better. I like a split of him and Poly K, and am currently skipping on the Swallower who's mana sink has proven unreliable.

Ember Swallower: Hitting double red is eased by Caryatid, but that's the only part of this cause that makes me want to limit the numbers in the list. 4/5 for 4, and if you can ramp into it T5 you will demolish. The consistency of this (and casting it in the first place) has been underwhelming so far in testing. You really want more green sources than red because of mystic and scavenging ooze, so its hard to cast this guy in the first place. And hitting 7 mana isnt the most doable
thing.

Polukranos, World-Eater:
5/5 for 4 is already pretty decent, though he lacks trample, he does give us access to instant speed removal which this deck sorely lacks. He is legendary so I'd limit to 1-2 copies, but he really only shines against decks with x/1-3 creatures to remove, as would be obvious, so I'm not sure at his meta-game staying potential. He kills ember swallowers though.

Polis Crusher: CRUSH DA POLIS. I think this guy is a steal at $1.50 right now. He has a bunch of keywords, pro enchantments, Monstrous, AND trample. Sadly you cant Boon Satyr him, but when hes a 7/7 and eats a chained to the rocks. d-sphere, or UNFLINCHING COURAGE, you won't be complaining.

Ghor-Clan Rampager: You need to be careful with this card. He can actually be mediocre in midrange decks, so if you need to shave numbers to fit in cards this is where I'd start. He's definitely at his best with a
bunch of aggressive 1-3 drops to bloodrush over, and currently we only have Tusker/BTE. If you go the Experiment 1 route I'd say he's an auto-include. That said, he's a trampler that CAN be boon satyrd, so T3 GCR, T4 Boon Satyr is pretty big game against blocking midrange decks (especially vs. DD even if you lose your rampager you get Boon Satyr.)


5 Drops
Arbor Colossus: Triple green is rough, this guy is probably just better in Mono Green. Though I do like the idea of him early on in the meta as sideboard for the mirror match, because he makes stormbreath dragon look like a complete joke. The lack of trample makes Kalonian Hydra just a more solid card.

Boon Satyr: Yes, he's ideally a 5-drop. He's honestly the most valuable creature in the deck. Think of a GCR that sticks around, and when the creature dies you get a free 4/2 on the field. Use against Jace +1 for maximum value.
They can untap and verdict, but they lost their jace for nothing and wont clear your board.

Kalonian Hydra: If you're playing Ember Swallower, you might as well be playing stormbreath dragon as a finisher. I like this guy because he can wall off aggro AND threaten to win the game pretty instantly, whereas holding a storm on Defense feels bad and isn't that insane a clock. He works great with 2 hammers, and if you're running BTE, ZTD, and not plant I'd say this guy deserves a shot.

Stormbreath Dragon: This guy is no TMH. He might spike, but the meta game can easily adapt to answer him. I have two words: Black decks. Black can easily answer this guy, and he can't even swing into Desecration demon. Sure U/W and G/W look like total chumps against them, but if thats the case people wont play those decks and Stormbreath will go down in value as a finisher because the clock isnt that fast and he's not guaranteed to get in
like hellkite was. T3 Stormbreath is still pretty legit, so I'd say run him out there until the meta adapts. His monstrous is no joke vs. midrange that can only play 1-card a turn as well. 7/7 is when he starts to be a real card.

Xenagos, God of Revels: This threat will close out games. If you have any board state at all when he comes down he will put the beats down on fast, and that next polukranos you drop being a 10/10? With all the planeswalkers and dorks we run getting him online isn't impossible either, and he can beat down with 6 power quite well. Definitely a powerful finisher the deck was in the market for. Please post stories of your 12/12 hasted Ruric Thar!


6 Drops
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed: This guy is legit. I was wary of running him mainboard because of the 6 cmc, and he's still an easy cut if your meta is infested with aggro, but dropping him undercurve with ramp is just insane.
against decks that want to use his drawback against him, Boon Satyr and GCR work incredible well. As does all your planeswalkers if they came down before him (or hell, even after. 6 life when you're the aggressor isn't that much to pay to get your Ruric through.)


Planeswalkers
Chandra, Pyromaster: Double red holds me back, but she is the real deal. In conjunction with Domri she is insane, you can look at your top card then 0 Chandra safely if its a land. Her +1 is great at getting damage through, especially if you have plants on defense that you can sacrifice so they can't realisitcally race you or hurt chandra. Her ultimate is unused, just never use it unless its the last line you have in a midrange match and you have mortars or something boarded in.

Domri Rade: The best T2 Planeswalker there is. The only 2 cmc PW was complete shit for a reason (sorry Yarpus), this sort of
engine isn't meant to come down when your opponent just has 1 land in play. Control players hate him. Aggro players hate having to finish him off (because you WILL stabilize if you play a 4/4 and -2 domri, pretty guaranteed), midrange have the best bet vs. him because he CAN come down and whiff and not do anything for you, but he's worth that risk so I play the full 4.

Xenagos, the Reveler: This guy does it all for this deck. While Domri seems like the posterboy planeswalker in a creature heavy deck, Xenagos is the grease that keeps the wheels turning. He pressures the opponent to wrath very well, he accelerates our board presence (either through mana or guys) against other deck, and his ultimate will actually break a ground stall. People compare her to Chandra at 4 cmc, but they do very different things. Chandra is good at getting trhough damage in certain situation and digs through the deck like no other. Xenagos however is a guaranteed twice as
fast a clock against Chandra with Satyr, with multipilicative gains if they dont deal with every Satyr. Chandra can sometimes be suboptimal, because your deck isn't packed with value. Sometimes you 0 her for a dork or something that won't win you the game, whereas Xenagos can go the distance himself.


Utility Cards
Bow of Nylea: This card does it all, but does it do anything good? Well if Chandra's Phoenix is around to stay, the "snipe" part is just as relevant as the lifegain. And hey, I hear putting +1/+1 counters on Gyre sage/Trampler isn't the worse thing to do with your mana if a game goes late. Still testing this as a 1-of.

Clan Defiance: I think this card has been overlooked because of Bonfire of the damned. A potential 3-1 should never be underestimated, and this deck has the mana to make X have absurd amounts. This can break open ground stalls, snipe planeswalkers, burn
people out (yet another angle this deck can attack from). I'm currently trying at a 1-of, because its a play you generally only need to make once a game.

Ground Assault: A 1-1 answer with no limit. With 5 toughness creatures seeing play to combat the expected Mortars-Meta. Sorcery speed is the downfall, but you can't give these colors quality instant speed removal, thats what Jund gets. I have them in the sideboard, but being able to remove just about anything on curve is pretty solid. Doesn't play so well with ember swallower however.

[card]Flesh // Blood[/card]: THE kind of Ground Assault this deck was looking for! Scaleable damage spell? Check. Scales with the fat monsters you are playaing and blood rush? Check. Deals damage to players OR creatures so is fleixble? Fucking sold man. If you have Caryatids in your 75, you can cast both sides for random Ruric Thar scavenging or something, but its not something to mess with the mana
base for.

Hammer of Purphorous: Better in BTE builds both for hitting double red early (you can T2 hammer off stomping ground mystic and BTE, its a bit christmas land but huge game), but otherwise a solid one of. Against attrition decks that thoughtseize all your best cards and 1-1 answer you, throwing flood at them is pretty sweet. Against control if they don't d-sphere it (and they have to d-sphere domri, chandra, and xenagos remember), its a free win sometimes. In decks that can't support the double red, it can be a dead card in some match-ups and I've sided it out against midrange and aggro which are heavily in the meta as well. Oh wait that was only the first clause, the Fires of Yaminaya haste to your dudes makes it insane when playing fatties like Ruric thar and Polis Crusher. I definitely wouldn't play more than 1-copy but when you start hasting out Kalonian Hydras and 4-drops its just too sweet.

[card]Mizzium Mortars[/card:
2k1le2n3]: Overloading this card can seal the deck against aggressive decks, or just break ground stalls. Overloading has always been a powerful effect, but this deck does it sooner. It fits very well with the deck at doing powerful things earlier than other colors are prepared for. I'm using it in the SB until the meta game settles, as its a very good answer to certain decks but it isnt the most aggressive card we can be playing.

Shock: I've become a big fan of this versus MonoRed decks. The big problem with them is their ability to efficiently spend their mana each turn and overwhelm you. Shock uses their technology against them, and lets you have earlier and more efficient plays. Pairs extremely well with Scavenging Ooze.


Placing Lists
[deck="Jonathon Habel 1st place SCH Open St. Louis"]
Creatures (25)
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Scavenging Ooze
4
Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Boon Satyr
4 Polukranos, World Eater

Planeswalkers (8)

4 Domri Rade
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
3 Xenagos, the Reveler

Lands (23)
7 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
Spells (4)

1 Flesh
3 Mizzium Mortars

Sideboard
4 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Plummet
2 Shock
2 Unravel the Aether
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]


[deck="Kent Ketter 2nd Place SCG Open Nashville"]
Creatures (25)

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
Planeswalkers (7)

1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
Lands (24)

7 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malice
Spells (4)

4 Mizzium Mortars
Sideboard

2 Arbor Colossus
4 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Plummet
2
Unravel the Aether
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Flesh[/deck]
Last edited by Link on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:54 am, edited 14 times in total.

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Post #2 by Link » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:24 pm

This is the decklist I brewed as an ideal endpoint:

28 Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Boon Satyr
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Ember Swallower
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Polis Crusher
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

24 Lands
4 Stomping Ground
7 Mountain
9 Forest
3 Temple of Abandon
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

8 Non-creatures
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Clan Defiance

4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler


SB: 3 Peak Eruption
SB: 3 Destructive Revelry
SB: 3 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 2 Ground Assault
SB: 2 Mistcutter Hydra
SB: 2 Chandra, Pyromaster

the jank I ended up running:

[deck=RAGEHAMMER]
28 Creatures
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Zhur-Taa Druid
1x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Boon Satyr
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Polis Crusher
1x Polukranos, World-Eater
2x Ember Swallower
1x Kalonian Hydra
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

23 Gruul Lands
1
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

4x Domri Rade
1x Xenagos, Reveler
1x Chandra, Pyromaster

1x Hammer of Purphorous
1x Clan Defiance

SB:
3x Peak Eruption
3x Destructive Revelry
3x Mizzium Mortars
1x Witchstalker
2x Ground Assault
1x Skarrg Guildmage
2x Ranger's Guile[/deck]


R1: Played agaisnt Nuwen because I forgot to put our anmes on the sheet so we were auto-paired... I said at least we get this match out of the way and never have to worry about getting paired later, then she promptly 2-0s me with Dos rakis.


I brought in mortars and ground assaults and witchstalkers for ZTD, Ruric Thar, and something else. She Madcap skill'd a Thrill Kill and ate my face.


*shrug* I helped make her deck beat the metagame and I knew others would be palying my deck (one guy was playing it and managed to actually have all the right shit for it, ripped STRAIGHT off SCGs decklist with the stormbreath dragons and bullshit.


R2: White Weenies.

So I saw Chandra G1, he saw 3 precinct captains and an
imposing soverign. Yeah I crushed him with 4/4s.

Brought in Mortars and ground assaults, I took out Ruric because banisher priest and hydra i think and maybe some ramp. Taking out ramp and things to ramp into made my deck pretty consistently low curve midrange and that was fine because I have 3 cards total that cast 5+ and I really like that. Might never shell out for stormbreath (even though I got $60 store credit np ;D)

-3 ZTD
-3 5 cmc+ drops

+5 removal spells.
+1 witchstalker


was really solid even though I hadnt practiced SBing.

I kept a 5 land+scavenging ooze hand and got run over by a Pantheon into Imposing Sovereign into Pantheon+brave

yeah ok.


G3 I kept a more solid hand, stabilized the board with ember swallower, had mizzium mortars in hand with mana to overload it, but instead I got for the ember swalloer monstroust because his board was just Precinct captain and a token.

He had 3 lands out.
Extend hand? (one of my lands kept was the shrine. I had about 6 devotion out ;
D)


R3: U/W control

This guys a really solid player so I don't remember much of the details because we play fast. My deck has SO much play against control from the R/g sligh lists Im used to running and even more-so than Kiblers Gruul. I put pressure on him with BTE and ZTD, he has to tap out for something (I think g1 he tapped out for azo charm on his turn because he missed his 4th land drop). I play a Domri.
Then I play a Xenagos.

Then I win. I don't care how much he sphinxs for or whatever, I pretty much just win from there.

-1 Clan Defiance (my reasoning was I can't outburn sphinx's with it, so why bother?)
-1 Kalonian Hydra (lol azo charm)
-1 Polukranos, World-Eater

+1 Destructive Revelry
+1 WitchStalker
+1 Skarrg Guildmage


This game he taps out for D sphere for Domri and I have another domri in hand. I ALMOST had enough to Xenagos +1 Domri, but I just Xenagos'd instead.

He verdicted Satyrs because he had to.

I played another Domri.

I had two planeswalkers, I dont give a shit what he had. I +1 domri and see a destructive revelry in case he ever finds another d-sphere.

I +1 Xenagos (at the same time my friend was comparing Chandra to him and saying she was strictly better in Gruul all the time) and play Ruric Thar on 4 lands and say "can chandra do that?"

He verdicts a bunch of shit but takes 6.

I make a Satyr. I boon Satyr it, extend hand?

VERDICT PROTECTION OP.



R4: G/W Midrange

Uh-oh. Oh wait, I curve Xenagos into Chandra and destroy him. I basically just hit him with a BTE and have the 0/3 plant on defense for voices, get a bunch of cards, kill him with ZTD. Play Ruric Thar, he selescharms him ("sure") I flash in a boon satyr on a hardcast rampager that game I think, and kill him with Chandra +1 pings and ZTD( Adds up SON)

-4 BTE
-3 Domri Rade

+3 Destructive Revelry
+3 mizzium mortars
+2 Ground Assault

Did I mention I really fucking hate Unflinching Courage?

Yeah G2 he goes Cat into Unflinching courage
into unflinching courage. I lose, but I guess I kept a no-mortars hand.


G3 I keep a slow hand with mortars, mortars his first thing. then I play a rampager.
He passes with 4 mana up.

I don't swing cause lol? I play Ember swallower

He flashes in advent, duh, and swings at me with advent. I snap offer the trade, he kills swallower and plays loxodon.

I swing with my rampager, he accepts the trade. FLASH IN BOON SATYR NO TRADE SON.

He apparently had pithing needle in hand (lawl). He plays Archangel.

I Clan Defiance for 5 that bitch, swing for 8, youre at 3? cool.

He plays a Voice and doesnt unflinching courage it, then he just dies cause 8/6 trampler.

He sided out Selescharms me so I'm pretty sure it went a lot easier than it should (thank you obscure meta!), but I definitely liked my "kill all the shit he plays forever" plan with backup revelrys to answer the courage.


Superfriends hard to beat. People think Xenagos is weak in midrange, but you either +1 and unload
your hand faster than them or just build a better board precense (satyrs can block for EITHER PW you have out!)

am very pleased with the deck.

Are stormbreaths necessary? Call me still an aggro player, but I liked having the lower curve.

SB:
Ranger's guile is good against black decks and selesnya charm, but I didn't get much testing out of it.
Same with ground assault.
Witchstalker is either an easy cut or add 1 more of to the SB against aggressive decks. I also think he can do work vs. RBW and Jundesque lists. Basically everything in the SB needs more testing! Skarrg Guildmage is just my pet card. I want to throw 4/4 mountains at people, but an extra hammer in that MU might just be better -_-

The main changes I'm considering:
-2 Ember swallower
+1 Polis +1 Polukranos,
-4 BTE +4 Kalonian Tusker
-3 ZTD +3 Sylvan Caryatid
-Mountains
+Forests

and go more green. Since Im not running mortars main, it seems legit. gives me a better threat at 2 mana to pressure control into verdicted,
removes the double red, lets me play more Polis crusher (BOON SATYR POLIS CRUSHER FRIENDS FOR LIFE)

What I lose: T2 BTE into Domri. Zhur-taa druid as a card. Ember swallower as a card (much better against blood baron which people were playing, and also loxodon smiters et al)

Is it worth it? it might be for my lower curve list. I like Tusker as a card since it fights cats n shit which is important and is a decent clock against control (whereas T2 lone BTE is just bad) If you have stormbreath then you just cut the BTEs for stormbreath and add plants for ZTD and go to town.
Last edited by Link on Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #3 by Link » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:23 pm

did a lot of updating.

I think my motto for non mortars main deck atm is "instead of removing it, outclass it" >___>b

Its a solid card though I just can't find room for it.

Also I'm coming around to the idea of eschewing 5-drops (even the random kalonian hydra I have) just because you have enough to do with your mana 5+, so having a lower curve is better, instead of having a hand choked with 5-drops on turns where your ramp gets removed and your stuck on lands, etc. Basically the difference between the "jank" list and the real one is Caryatids, and taking out BTE (or Tusker if I go that route) for stormbreath and I don't know if thatlll make it clunkier, especially since I don't have the card quality of jund. I might be better off just having a lower curve with "power 4-drops" that can be monstrousd. Basically a sweet aggro deck with awesome PW engines and mana sinks.

Plus
Ruric Thar with ramp and boon satyrs are my real 5 drops ;D

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Post #4 by Link » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:28 pm

Also Nykthos is a card Im still unsure about. It might be better off just as another green source, but it does randomly ramp me from 4-6 sometimes and makes use of my land slots better than mutavault in this deck. I also had a game where I had mountains and shrine and BTE... and used the Shrine+BTEs green to fix my mana <__< (if it had been a forest though its sort of irrelevant, except for double green)

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Post #5 by Link » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:46 am

[deck]Creatures (22)

4 Elvish Mystic
2 Ember Swallower
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Polukranos, World Eater
Planeswalkers (7)

3 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Domri Rade
Lands (24)

9 Forest
7 Mountain
1 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Abandon
Spells (7)

3 Lightning Strike
4 Mizzium Mortars
Sideboard

2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Burning Earth
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Fade into Antiquity
3 Peak Eruption[/deck]

This is our first placing list. Looks extremely tuned to beat aggro decks, with 7 removal spells. I agree with the cutting of GCR like I posted earlier in the primer, and glad to see my land split was pretty correct with Shrine instead of mutavault though.

I disagree with:
Anger of the gods seems to be going a bit far, but if he adds those in he can really play a controlling
game. The rest of the SB looks pretty solid.
3 Chandra over 0 Xenagos? I'm not the biggest fan of that either, but that's been testing without Sylvan Caryatids I suppose. I especially dont like her 0 with the mortars and lightning strike in, but maybe you just +1 her up until in topdeck mode when youre happy to see anything. I definitely think Xenagos is good to have a different angle, and the board presence he creatres vs. chandra is huge.

22 Creatures with Domri... you're really missing a lot of potential to get ahead there I feel.


Bow is interesting. It seems pretty sick with Polis Crusher as well against desecration demons... I hadn't actually thought about it. I guess I'm just more of a hammer guy <_<

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Post #6 by Link » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:43 pm

Elspeth continues to give me fits, Stormbreath isnt enough sometimes. Aggressive starts with boon satyr and curves have helped of course, but any counterspell or d-sphere along the way and its a very tought match-up (UW)

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Post #7 by Yarpus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:50 pm

And that's exactly why Savage Summoning is a Magic: The Gathering card. Just try it. Casting T5 EOT 5/5 Rampager really doesn't hurt. Especially since he can't be countered and can't be killed with Sorcery removal before he attacks.
In terms of Elspeth, not that much can be done. She's backbreaking. Flames of the Firebrand, Legion Loyalists or killing your opponent with burn after he taps out to cast her are the only way I know to get rid off her.
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Post #8 by Link » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:35 pm

if I'm going to savage summoning anything it's ruric thar or polis crusher, but still not convinced.

will try

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Post #9 by Link » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:51 am

so taking Zemans advice and my own gut instincts of my list (that boon satyr was the only 5-drop it needed) im running the curve that tops out at ruric thar atm featuring burning-tree for aggressive openings.

Here's the core idea-Ramp into Monsters into mana sinks. No clunky 5 drops.

The numbers still need work, but yeah, the curve is pretty sweet and the mana sinks are there. I sadly have decided hammer of purphorous is just a much better "make my lands dudes" card than Skarrg guildmage, because hasting out 4-drops and Ruric thar is no goddamn joke. (and better than giving them trample).

I'd have more Xenagos in there but I split have 1-1 split with chandra just because chandra ffs.
Current mana sinks:
Clan Defiance x1
Hammer of Purphorous x1
Polis Crusher monsrtousx2
Ember swallower monstroustx3
Polukranos monstroust x1
scavenging oozex3

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Post #10 by LP, of the Fires » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:14 am

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Stomping Ground
8 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Ember Swallower
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Satyr Hedonist
4 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
4 Voyaging Satyr
SB: 2 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 Time to Feed
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
SB: 3 Peak Eruption
SB: 4 Burning Earth
SB: 3 Anger of the Gods

Here's more or less what I think our local pro player is running at states. I mentioned boon satyr to him and he's considering adding it to the deck, though in place of what, I have no idea. Probably Ruric-Thar.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #11 by Link » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:28 pm

4x mistcutter hydra is questionable maindeck especially.

Ruric Thar is definitely maindeckable. He's one of the only things ramping into (james agrees).

3 Nykthos is gonna give him fits with mana as well. I'd probably shave a PolyK, and the Mistcutters for +1 mortars +4 boon satyrs

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Post #12 by Link » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Gyre sage. I think gyre goyf is the missing link.

ZTD gets run over by aggro and Caryatid is embarrassing versus control. gyre is the medium I might be looking for now that the 5 drops are cut.

will post tonight after Wednesday standard

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Post #13 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:52 am

gyre sage doing work. even as a 3/4 for 2 is fine

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Post #14 by Yarpus » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:05 am

Why going Gruul over Mono Green?

[deck]Creatures:
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Experiment One
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Gyre Sage
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Boon Satyr
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Deadbridge Goliath

Other Spells:
4 Pit Fight
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts

Lands:
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mutavault
21 Forest[/deck]

Thing you are actually getting from R is Xenagos. Fuck Xenagos. Have a beast. Removal suite is weak as fuck on the one hand - on the other hand, you have stable manabase, huge blowouts with Nykthos and monstrous consistency.
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Post #15 by LP, of the Fires » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:11 am

The hydra is something that fills every point of your curve.

I am taking notes though and I'll bring them up with homeboy when I see him today. I also agree with the Nykthos comment. Without BTE, it's not like you're getting a lot devotion out of them.

But if it hasn't been made clear, I don't know exactly what he's playing so I'll bring home more data tonight.

We gonna High Roller draft some Theros.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #16 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:19 am

I was thinking mono green. red gives you your engines earlier with xenagos, chandra, and domri. Domri mainly gives you a way to interact with the board. Also gives you hammer, emberswallower, and polis crusher as mana sinks.

And GCR.

Oh baby GCR.

I do think mono green can be very solid though, and that list is definitely where I would start. I'd probably throw in the full Kalonian hydra for pit fight though, and move pit fight to the SB.

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Post #17 by Yarpus » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:26 am

Kalonian Hydra sucks imo. It's too slow for current format, dies to Mizzium Mortars which is played even by RDW and generally is not where you want to be while tapping 5 mana.
I don't understand GCR in decklists like that. If you are looking for trample - you have Nylea. Your creatures don't need more removal-magnets with the promise of 2for1.
I agree on Domri and Hammer. But Hammer requires 2 red mana. Swallower is outclassed by other cards you have on your disposal imo. His Monstrous is not relevant enough to keep him with 5/5's available for the same price. Goliath and Polukranos can trade with Obzedat!
Yeah, Pity Fight sucks. So... -8 Forest +8 GR Lands, -4 Pity Fight +4 Domri ?
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Post #18 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:33 am

when you play hima turn early hes legit. He also has built in trample and just runs over midrange.

I'm talking about the benefits of R/G versus Mono Green. I don't think Nylea is anywhere near as solid as Rampager if I had to choose.

I wouldn't try to cram Red in solely for domri. If youre gonna go red I think you need the best of both worlds and BTE to sew it up.


Definitely try out Kalonian Hydra. Mono Green is a SLOW deck, but when they are forced to verdict every time you trop a gyre sage and kalonian tusker, you will eventually overwhelm them with threats. Kalonian Hydra is THE best threat you can play in mono green IMO.

If they have a mortars for that then you havent had a decent curve. Your early dudes HAVE to get mortars too. Hydra comes down when they are exhausted and just cleans them the fuck up.

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Post #19 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:45 am

also I think a resolved garruk -2 to put Polukranos in play and being able to instantly deal with a Elspeth tokens(provided you have a board precense of tuskers or gyre sages or what not) is friggin awesome

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Walp

Post #20 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:11 am

Anyway my notes from tonight:

Probably going to replace Ember Swallower, he definitely underperformed. Hitting 7 mana for his monstrous when it would matter is just not feasible. I'm probably going to play Deadbridge in his place as well as some # of PolyK and Polis Crusher (2 deadbridge 1 more PolyK?). Hitting double red wasnt worth the trouble either, as I wanted to use my BTEs early unless I had a nut Gyre Sage->BTE+4 drop hand.

Skarrg Guildmage is a workhouse. I won a mull to 5 against U/W off his back and mutavault. Insane.

Hammer is still the real fucking deal and definitely a reason to play Gruul over Mono G >_>b

I played Naya and burned him out with a destructive revelry after a grindy game and me hitting him with dorks until he got to 2. He flashed in advent unflinchingcouraged it, and I destructive revelred him for lethal XD was great.

Two matches against UW. G1 he mulled to 5, but he just had the right cards in order and even though I had huge CA with Domri (and him using azo charms before I +1 domri) I just couldnt catch up on tempo and he resolved an aetherling into elspeth. G2 I mulled to 5 and won off Skarrg guildmage and hitting him with a 4/4 for 6 turns because he had blown all his stuff on my early drops (last breathd BTE? Ill play guildmage). Lost g3 due to ember swallowers stuck in my hand forever

Other UW match was easy. Bait out d spheres with domri and xenagos, then punch him in the face with Hammer. He played elspeth, and had to choose between making tokens or killing my poly K (only to have her die to a golem). He choose golems. I choose an 8/8 polukranos and beating his face in.


Changes:
+1 mutavaul. Going to accomplish by throwing out the ember swallowers and making the mana base easier with BTE as extra red sources (single red sources)
+2 Deadbridge Goliath (I wannt to scavenge this onto a
mutavault pretty badly)
+1 Polukranos
SB Ruric Thar, I just wanted to be faster for G1s.
+1 Bow of Nylea I like it versus desecration demon decks, RDW (kills phoenix!), and agaisnt reckoners. easy swap for hammer in those MUs,

Definitely keeping Gyre sage.

Making room for Skarrg Guildmage, its still hard. Its either him or Scavenging ooze in the MB. And I'm honestly leaning toward guildmage and bringing in "removal+scavenging ooze" from the SB when I need to play controlish.

I'll save Peak Eruptions for when the meta settles:

[deck]
28 Creatures
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Gyre Sage
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Boon Satyr
2x Skarrg Guildmage
2x Deadbridge Goliath
2x Polukranos, World-EAter
2x Polis Crusher

24 Land
9 Forests
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of abandon

8 Noncreature
4x Domri Rade
2x Xenagos, Reveler
1x Hammer of Purphorous
1x Clan Defiance


SB:
2x Ruric-Thar, Unbowed
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Hammer of Purphorous
n3x Scavenging Ooze
3x Mizzium Mortars
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Ground Assault[/deck]


that's where I'm at for now. Goodnight!

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Post #21 by Yarpus » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:56 pm

Skarrg Guildmage is a workhouse. I won a mull to 5 against U/W off his back and mutavault. Insane.

He's basically the best mana sink in the format IMO. Both abilities are extremally relevant. I'd love to have him in RDW. He's that fucking good.
You can drop some amount of Scavenging Ooze. It's not a crazy card anymore, and remember that in multiples it becomes Grizzly Bear. So I'd do 2-2 split on Ooze/Skarrg and 4 Goyf Sages.
But then ew, you play BTE. I'd drop those fuckers but you're the boss here.

Probably going to replace Ember Swallower, he definitely underperformed. Hitting 7 mana for his monstrous when it would matter is just not feasible. I'm probably going to play Deadbridge in his place as well as some # of PolyK and Polis Crusher (2 deadbridge 1 more PolyK?). Hitting double red wasnt worth the trouble either, as I wanted to use my BTEs early unless I had
a nut Gyre Sage->BTE+4 drop hand.

Swallower has his decks. Non-G decks find him usefull - but you just have better options. 2-2-1 on Crusher, Goliath and Polukranos?
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Post #22 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:04 pm

yeah Im running 2-3-1 tonight but I dont have a 2nd poly K.

BTE is what makes Gyre Goyf insane. Being able to double evolve her, and ramp into 4 on T3 is flat out unfair. You get a 3/4 body (that can ramp into 6 mana next turn) and an early 4-drop. She also lets you protect Domri, catch-up against aggro, dump bears against control to force a lot of pressure (BTE->Guildmage is sick and you dont have to play cards after that until verdict unless they divination and you get a free resolved PW).

I tried Tusker, but not only can you not cast him sometimes because of mountains, but he just didnt do the things that BTE could've done in the situations when I had Tusker instead of BTE for a1-1 swap. So I went back.

At first I wanted swallower to beat Loxodon smiter decks with selesnya charm tbh, but it hasnt made that much of an impact yet and they can only selescharm so many things. 5/5s for lyfe

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Post #23 by Yarpus » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Well, I'll explain what Gyre Goyf is to me - and then you will explain me why my train of thought is wrong and why still BTE is better. I'm not sarcastic, you're the one who has an actual touch with the deck and generally is just better deckbuilder. (hope that my rants here aren't annoying for you)

I want to cast T2 Gyre Goyf. He's 1/2 for 2 who does nothing.
But then, at T3 I cast something. It can be nearly anything this deck plays except of a dork. And based on construction of the decklist, this thing is scary.
My opponent has to kill what I've just played. It's a threat. It's probably a fucking Boon Satyr.
Gyre Goyf is 2/3 and gives me 1 mana.
My opponent kills Boon Satyr.
And then I cast Polukranos beacuse hell yeah, why not.
My opponent has to deal with Polukranos.
Gyre Goyf is 3/4.

Gyre Sage is imo a creature that is always in the shadows of other creatures. Threats. Nobody considers Gyre Goyf a
threat. It's *just* Gyre Sage. People have to constantly respond to your other threats while Gyre Sage becomes a beast.
BTE doesn't corespond with that strat at all as all he provides is tempo increase.
He's not another threat in your deck that takes your opponent's sight away from Gyre Sage.
He's a grizzly bear. They can remove Gyre Sage and leave BTE on the field. Nobody gives a fuck about it.

It's a fine thing that BTE fixes your mana sometimes, but I don't believe he's good enough to be in here. I think I'd rather have Satyr Hedonist or just another Scavenging Ooze.
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Post #24 by Link » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:45 pm

I mean your rants dont annoy me, I enjoy the criticism because BTE has been a staple in most of the decks Ive built and its entirely possible I'm overvaluing her.

I just think the velocity given by BTE is a core part of the deck. I'm not playing Gyre Sage naya where I just sling these threats at them turn after turn, I'm playing Gruul. What we've lost in haste we've retained in tempo acceleration and ramp.

BTE allows you to ramp into that 4 drop on T3. Yeah you can just play out a boon satyr on T3, but to be honest I REALLY value him as a 5-drop and would like to cast him on 5 mana as often as possible.

Control players cant just ignore BTE, bears will kill you. Especially Satyrs and Bears (T3 BTE-> Xenagos). BTE is obviously better in multiples as well. I've cast Mystc into BTE+BTE+Domri T2. Its not christmas land, these are hands that can and will happen.

And I think the mana fixing is important. Not only
is double red with Hammer very hard at times, decks like this generally mulligan very poorly because it is a bit of a "pieces of the puzzle" deck and its difficult to win games wherey ou mull to 6 and have no ramp or acceleration and just try to Domri on T3 and 4 drop on T4. BTE lets you keep those double forest hands that would otherwise just be really unplayable.

Scavenging ooze is solid but the problem I have with him is that I usually only want to cast him on T4+ and eat a few things. And I have a shit ton of other 4-drops already to cast on T4 that are 4/4s. The gain life clause is only relevant against aggro these days, hence why bring him in for sure against aggro and lower the curve. I also dont maindeck enough removal to play ooze as a sort of "land ooze, remove their threats and eat them, win game" deck, which is what Jund/G/B decks are currently very specialized in.

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Post #25 by Yarpus » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:48 pm

Now I have to agree with you. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Post #26 by Link » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:34 pm

holy shit I fixed the RDW match-up.

SHOCK.

Took out ground assault, put it in an instant speed answer that helps shore up the disparity of early game mana efficeincy between our two decks.

Between shocking somehting and scavenging ooze, I have a lot of instant speed plays to reduce their impact on me.

I'm also probably just going to move scavenging ooze main as a concession to the meta right now. My theory is that even without mizzium mortars MB, red decks are going to be killing my creatures to race past me so I'll have plenty of GY fuel that way.


Gyre sage continues to impress me. No one wants to spend a card on it, and they quickly learn that they should (which SO opens the way for my sexy 5/5s).

Also if Master of Waves becomes a deck... guess who's going to shit down their throat?

Miscutter hydrra thats who.

Whats that? You have to verdict your own army to deal with him?

Sweet deal bro.

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Post #27 by atatjacob1 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:49 am

Fate » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:34 am wrote:
holy shit I fixed the RDW match-up.

SHOCK.

Took out ground assault, put it in an instant speed answer that helps shore up the disparity of early game mana efficeincy between our two decks.

Sweet deal bro.


Have you considered magma jet alongside or in place of it? I could understand that what makes shot good is that it only costs one mana (so is a T1 play), but I always have weird deluded hopes of scrying to put a creature on top as to always hit with Domri. I am still undecided, have you tested magma jet yet? Shock is probably better but we can't just rule out the jet. Do you side mystic out against aggro? If not, when you get both in hand do you keep shock open or play the dork?

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Post #28 by Link » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:48 am

I'll post a proper write up later.

magma jet is solid, but the 1 mana is REALLY important. you need to try and keep up in mana effficiebcy. once you've dumped your hand you are good to go

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Post #29 by Link » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:30 am

Anyway the thing I like about this deck a lot is that the side board options are very powerful.

You can play THREATS that are also ANSWERS.

Arbor Colossus? If a 6/6 isnt a threat I dont know what is. Oh yeah, and that stormbreath you were planning on killing me with? Go fuck yourself. I rather Arbor colossus than overload a mizzium mortars for "value" any day in this deck.

Mistcutter Hydra? Oh yeah now you have to verdict your OWN win con or race me. Gl.

Ruric Thar? Yup. Ruric Thar.

You force them to have answers for your threat/answers, and then how are they winning again?


All the things I brought in mortars for I found myself just outclassing them on the battlefield instead. like sure I could overload mortars and go to town on some "stalled" board states. The way I play though, board states dont get stalled. Shit gets fought. Trades happen.

Scavenging ooze cleans up the mess.

I
said before I like mortars+ooze, but I like shock+ooze WAY better.

Also Gyre sage is the fucking shit. Earlier today I was thinking about how resto angel shit on reckoner, and then tonight I got to block a reckoner with a 3/4 Gyre sage. He redirected the damage to my ooze (hue).

Hell, against mono red it was more like "make a 2/3, now you cant swing" and that alone just swung the game in my favor. Id play another fattie, evolve her again, and go to town with her. Aint nobody want to block a 3/4. I didn't double evolve her once and she was strong, so that speaks to the value of the card in this deck pretty highly.

I'm moving the hammer from the main as a concession to mono red as well. I think thats where Im gonna jam Skarrg guild mage into (instead of the bow). The bow was cute because you can play it against control and at least put a counter on mutavault every time, but I still rather have guild mage as the "middle" ground always awesome creature.


Oh yeah, do you know
how many people picked up Skargg guildmage and read it? He was absoluteffucking HOUSE tonight. Single handedly won me Esper and UB (vs. esper was hilarious because I had out hammer, guildmage, AND mutavault. hue).

The esper player said "I know what he does, I just dont know if hes good in this standard" I said "we're about to find out" and killed him with fucking lands (he hero's downfalled a mountain to try and "keep me off stromrbreath" mana. JOKES ON HIM I DONT NEED NO MYTHICS.)

Another highlight was me keeping a 5 land hand vs. white weenies. Gyre sage+Scavenging ooze.

He played precinct captain, 2 soldiers of the pantheon, couldnt swing into 2/3 gyre.

I played Polis Crusher. He tried to pacify it.Get stomped.

G2 I had no way I could lose. I had polukranos, deadbridge, in hand and a gyre sage (first one got double blocked and traded 2-1) and ooze on the field. I decided to play chandra instead of any of the fatties because nuwen playing next to me had just
played hers so we superfriended together. He path'd to stop his sovereign from dying and I lulzed and continued playing monsters.

He had archangel of thune, but thats where I got thinking that if he played smart he would have archangel+Path up to stop me from mortarsing it, or he would have fiendslayer+archangel to get her out of range.

I rather just force his ass on the defensive with monsters and make him trade off his fiendslayers before overloading mortars or archangel shenanigans even comes into the equation. He triple blocked a deadbridge with precinct and 2 fiendslayer. SHOCK, 3-1?

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Post #30 by Link » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:35 am

here's what I'll be taking to a 1k tomorrow. Meta will be I dont care because I'm going to smash. Well I guess MonoRed is a sweet deck so I maindecked the scavenging oozes over skarrg guildmage and hammer, but thats because I respect red more than control.

[deck]
29 Creatures
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Gyre Sage
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Boon Satyr
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Deadbridge Goliath
1x Polukranos, World-EAter
2x Polis Crusher

24 Land
8 Forests
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of abandon

7 Noncreature
4x Domri Rade
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Xenagos, Reveler
1x Clan Defiance


SB:
2x Ruric-Thar, Unbowed
2x Skarrg Guildmage
2x Arbor Colossus
1x Mistcutter Hydra
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Hammer of Purphorous
3x Shock
3x Destructive Revelry[/deck]

If the numbers seem weird its because of lack of cards. I only have 1 mistcutter for example, and only 1
polukranos. I have more chandras but I legit think Xenagos is good in this archetype with all my mana sinks and desire to make board precense. I have Satyrd on Satyrd action A LOT. Control seems to think Jace, AoT is a good counter play to Xenagos. So then I just make another free satyr and boon satyr the one at Jace. VERDICT THIS

Bow is an experiment. I really like it versus desecration demon decks, reckoner decks, mono red... which is why I had one MB. skarrg guildmage helps kill them g1 though so Im fine having him in the slot over bow.

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Post #31 by Helios » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:23 am

Grats on your success tonight! Bow is an excellent card, as I'm sure you'll soon discover. Try taking out Mystic for Experiment One and see how that goes- I think you'll like it ;-)

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Post #32 by atatjacob1 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:50 pm

I actually play-tested ex one over mystic. I think they're both viable options and can't go wrong with either. IMO Gyre Goyf seems to cover most of your ramping post T2, the only reason I love mystic is getting a T2 planeswalker that doesn't make you discard your hand (Yarpus...). Experiment one seems like an overall better card, it has some kind of boardwipe immunity, allows for kinky plays when you flash boon satyr in to evolve at instant speed and has somewhat of a synergy with DRade (evolve, fight, regen. Rinse lather and repeat). Not to mention, after you've done your early game ramping, what does mystic do? Jump in front of an obzedat? Experiment one provides a relevant threat both late and early game and it's really funny if for some reason (you sick bastard) you bestow it with boon satyr or add counters with the bow. Even after all that though, T2 Domri is amazeballs. Maybe cut 2 Ghor Clan Rampagers to increase
your one drop slots?

Also, Fate. The list your taking to the 1k tomorrow is one card short, there are only 28 creatures, not 29. Maybe see if you can find a Poly K on the day, tech in an ex one for lols maybe.

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Post #33 by Link » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:17 pm

Just barely missed top 8.

The games I lost were generally due to missing land drops, even in one game where I scryd two gas cards to the bottom I couldn't hit a land drops in a row, and it was pretty frustrating.

And that was in the mirror. The mirror match was not in my favor due to the decklist that top8d having a strong deck against aggro.
R2 against the mirror he had ember swallower and 3 elvish mystics out I shit you not. He also had like 6 land in play so he was able to starve me on mana and run me over with swallower.

G3 of that match I mulled to 4 (he had a game loss due to decklist, and I still lost heh).

Then on my win and in match I was against Mirror again.

G1 is the aforementioned struggling to hit land drops despite 2 temple hand, and he mortars my mystic to hurt me more. It went long and I was JUST about to stabilize, but then he topdecks ooze and has a billion more mana than me (I had neglected
to play my ooze becauase he couldve just fought it with his domri with the BTE+Satyr that he had out, so I boon satyrd blocked that and he played scavenging ooze afterward and I was dead).

G2, I keep a no-red hand with Domri and BTE. I have gyre sage though, and I go T3+BTE+Domri fight your mystic. How about YOU get fucked on mana now (spoiler alert: he didnt)? He mortars my gyre sage, but I was still fine because I had a scavenging ooze right? Missed 4th land drop ofc, couldn't make it big enough,a nd he plays his own ooze to eat the other GY fodder. Then he plays Polukranos, and I'm about to get wrecked. I play Bow of nylea. he picks it up, reads it. I swing with Emissary and 3/3 ooze, he blocks emissary with ooze and ooze with polokrano beacuse Im tapped out. I say they trade, he didnt read the deathtouch part.

DESPITE THAT.

He untaps, rips stormbreath dragon #1.
I miss another land drop, cant fucking play colossus, so play BTE+Put a counter on it.
Mounstrous dragon hits me for 11 one swing.
I topdeck MYSTIC. gg. Im still not dead because bow can gain life.

He rips another stormbreath AND ghor-clans it, it was a pretty bad beating for my win and in. So yeah, hitting land drops in the mirror is super important, but you ALSO cant keep durdle hands and just get beat down by scavenging ooze and emissaries and be forced to block and get dead to rampager. (jesus I just realized the netdeck G/R monsters has only TWO main board GCR so I got hit by some pretty big nuts).

Anyway report:
Last minute changes to decklist due to friend saying "theres a bunch of control today!" herp.
[deck=Ragehammer]
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Gyre Sage
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Boon Satyr
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Deadbridge Goliath
1x Polukranos, World-Eater
2x Polis Crusher
2x Ruric-Thar, the Unbowed

24 Land
8 Forests
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of abandon

7 Noncreature
4 Domri Rade
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Xenagos, Reveler
1 Clan Defiance

SB:
1 Gruul Warchant
3
Skarrg Guildmage
2 Arbor Colossus
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Polis Crusher
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Hammer of Purphorous
3 Shock[/deck]

U/W Master of Wave
Played against my friend with U/W round 1. G1 he stumbles on the 4th land, plays his dead cards out (bident and thassa), I play Xenagos and start beating his face in. He plays master of waves finally, feels good about stabilizing. PLUS ONE xenagos, had a mystic BTE, Satyr out, make 10 mana, Clan defiance him for exactsies, was sweet.

I sideboarded badly. I put in polis crushers+mistcutter Hydra(which was in my sb over destructive reverly as a more proactive plan) and took out gyre sage and deadbridge. The only way to BEAT Master of waves is to have mono green creatures out, so I put back in gyre sages and deadbridge, cut burning tree (because omenspeaker and frostburn shit on it anyway).

G2 I got DESTROYED by double master of waves hand I can't beat that shit. He swung for 15+ and I was just dead.

G3
I made the changes above and he was in "control" mode. He was thinking on T4, I had out just guildmage and ooze. he's at like 12, and I go "you have to verdict here or im just going to kill you." He's like "I don't got a verdict" I say "you're a bad liar" and he laughs and ends up verdicted.

I killed him with xenagos or something after that, or maybe it was hammer+another guildmage.

R2 vs. G/R Monsters
R2 was the game loss match where I misplayed and got my lands blown up by ember swallower. The misplay was I rampagered his domri to stop him from playing a 4-drop and fighting it with my elf to keep me off land. He played another domri, and I needed that GCR later for the ruric thar I had in hand, whoops. Wasn't that huge but I blew it way too early, even though domri can take over a match in the mirror easily.

R3 vs. Mono Red
He mulled to 4 g1. He shocked
some of my early gyre sages and stuff, but I eventually just took over the board with my 6- card hand.

-4 Boon Satyr
-2 Ruric Thar
+2 Arbor Colossus
+3 Skarrg Guildmage
+1 Bow of Nylea

Was nice and clean sideboard. Boon satyr is bad against ash zealot and magma jet and shock, and is a 5-drop in the other mode so I lower the curve with awesome mana sinks and 3 answers to the birdie.


G2 I won an unwinnable situation. I was being as aggressive as possible because I knew he was on the fanatic plan, and he ends up setting up his fanatic and chandra phoenixing me to get me low. I'm playing to my out of bow, clan defiance, arbor colossus, domri, even rampager wouldve let me outrace him with my deadbridge goliath.. I keep swinging at him with my fatties. to force him into defense mode.

I'm at 3 life, and dead to any burn, so I play a polis crusher post combat and pass. He doesn't have the burn and takes me to one life. Next turn I rip a gyre sage.... not my out. Still. I swing out with mystic
polis crusher, deadbridge. two mystics. He chump blocks everything and has only the phoenix left. I have 6 mana up but DONT monstroust my poliscrusher (because it wouldnt have been lethal anyway).

I pass to him, he sighs real hard and PASSES BACK TO ME AT 1 LIFE WITH PHOENIX OUT. ??? I was like "aha! you played around my fog!" he said "fog? what? I just need any burn spell shit" I rip a rampager and overkill him by about 15 damage.

No idea what that was about, but I survived a fanatic of mogis for like 9 ( and would've easily survived if I had seen any of the aforementioned tech or scavenging ooze).

R4 vs. Esper Control
G1 was a bit grindy. I was beating him with mutavaults and elves with the occasional boon satyr here and there. He 1-1d me for a bit, far and awayd me for a bit, but didn't have the sphinx's it was the one card missing from the game plan, so he just died. He actually supreme verdicted an lone elvish mystic
before he died <_<

G2 he keeps a 2 watery grave hand on the play. yeah. He proceeded to bitch about not hitting double white, and how I would've been blown out by it since I played BTE into mystic and then played out mystics in the subsequent turns with mountain mountain mutavault in play just to have the greem mana. I misplayed here because he shocked when he ripped his godless shrine t4 and passed. I should've played domri into the counterspell mana because he might not have them in, AND it let him azorius charm for free to draw a card when I could've applied more pressure (my hand was nothing but gas).
Lesson: its fine to get counterspelled when you have enough pressure on board and in hand so that the only way you lose is let them draw out of it by not applying more pressure.

Anyway I eventually mistcutter him for 4 when hes at 2 life and he far//away my boon satyr. I sacrifice my mystic that was by my lands because I had just tapped out for the hydra. He said it was "shady" or
whatever, but I was like "what other outs did you even have there? Doom blade hydra+azorius charm satyr? Did you have that? well ok then."

He was saying about how this was "such an easy matchup" and he's been crushing it in testing. I tried to reason with him that I know my colors very well and am pretty damn practiced versus esper decks, and that my decklist wasnt copied, but he was just on tilt. *shrugs*

The cherry on top? This guy had beat nuwen in round 2 because she fucked up her decklist and flooded a bit g1 (and drew both her madcap skills vs. esper) so she didnt get a chance to sb.

R5 vs. G/W midrange
G1: I had played this guy a few FNMs ago, but he's a very solid player. Basically I misplayed like a dog g1.
So we both keep really slow hands. I double scry, into t3 boon satyr (im on the play). He boon satyrs my boon satyr... lol? play xenagos t4. I have ruric thar the whole time. He eventaully plays out two seles
charms to block my emissrary and something else, and I boon satyr one of them bestow.

He untaps plays archangel of thune, one open mana.

Now I have options. I can play out ruric thar and see if he can deal with him, and save the boon satyr in my hand to make ruric thar unkillable. I decide to go to combat, he blocks with thune! I get greedy, I boon satyr my emsisary. He braves the elements! Huge blow out.
he flashes in a wurm precombat to make a 6/6 wurm and kills xenagos.

I play out ruric, into a 6/6 wurm. the hell else am I going to do, angel is still a 4/5 right now. Ruric blocks archangel, he rootborn defenses makes a second wurm. He forgets his angel trigger on his 6/6 wurm at least. Archangel is now a 5/6.

Ruric thar suicides into a wurm and I clan defiance post combat for not enough to kill angel, but I clear out his other wurms. He gains too much life and just wins with angel.

Fuck.

G2: I side in polis crushers but don't see them. T3 I swing in with gyre sage, he makes a seles
knight to block. I boon Satyr to evolve! big plays? Next turn I swing and he makes a knight to block the boon satyr, I had no rampager. After that, t5 maybe I think it was, he has out a fleecemane lion with 1 white mana open. I have a 2/3 gyre sage and a 1/2 gyre sage. I have no other fatties to evolve, warchant and clan defiance in hand. I can clan defiance the fleecemane asap, but if he has brave the elements Im fucked again! So I play war chant.

He suits it up with courage and goes to town. I can't clan defiance for 5 because my gyre sage didnt evolve twice (if the 2nd gyre sage had been any of my fatties I think I had that game). Next turn I had a land drop and go for the clan defiance for 5, because I, about to die to it anyway and cant play around brave anymore. Well of course he has ready and willing this time (and rootborn defenses main! jesus), and then flashes in an advent and lpays a 2nd courage for value.

I mean I fucked up by playing around brave the elements there in retrospect (he
didnt have it), but I definitely think the MU is better than these results, due to my own misplays G1 and poor draw G2.

I still have a win and in because my tie breakers are sweet. The match is above and it was painful and I dont want to relive it. The mirror has ALWAYS been the hardest match-up for me, and I guess I underprepared. I boarded in arbor colossus and bow and that I was good to go, but it was just land drops.

Anyway I'd probably take the ruric thars out of the main for the guildmages. even just as a 2/2 to start pressurjng him I like it ALOT better than Ruric.... and against control I don't even need to get to ruric mana to win I've found. Not ready to cut him yet, but I like mistcutter hydra a little bit better (especially if master of waves is part of the meta, which it will be).

I still dont want mortars, I dont care if I lost to stormbreath. I think it was mostly a variance game. Stormbreath will still come down and finish off a domri or something before you mortars it, and they
play the full 4 anyway.

Also debating just cutting chandra. She was dead in my hand a few games where I needed double red... it was just physically painful. Then I can go up to 30 creatures, 6 noncreatures, but we'll see. She did work against the mono red list as usual, but shes only good when your mana is good. To be honest I mostly used her 0 to hit 5th+ land drops today! Probably still keep her cause chandra baby, but if I cut her itd be for 3 skarrg/ 3 scavenging ooze main board.

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Post #34 by Link » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:20 pm

I'll make my own post for experiment one thoughts:

Im already having problems being starved on mana, and since gyre sage isnt reliable ramp (she WILL eat removal and thats FINE), you need to have A SOURCE of ramp in the deck and fuck if Im playing caryatid.

Allows for T2 BTE+Domri or just domris and thats always a beat down. Also with all the mana sinks hes just been an amazing card to have against control and midrange alike.

Experiment one is more for a mono green list with all in on evolve and kalonian hydra imo.

I can't afford to devote that many slots to "i need to curve out" threats when Im playing really powerful cards (why Im slpashing red) that I just need to actually cast and make monstrous.

Elvish mystic definitely has to stay. and with that I can't find room for ex1

to put it another way: Experiment 1 adds more variance to the deck. And if you want to play G/R with high variance? go for
the stormbreath dragon brew. It can go T2 domri, T3 chandra, T4 stormbreath, and that is bullshit unbeatable. But then it can also durdle around with plants and dorks and domris that miss because of mortars.

Im trying to make a consistent deck as my highest priority. I want to be constantly in a position to punish a stumbling opponent (from playing R/g sligh for so long, its how ive evolved as a player) and not be stumbling myself because I topdecked a experiment 1 or have to play him in weird ways and fuck up my own tempo to get "value" out of him.

You can argue gyre goyf is the same variance, but Id disagree. Being able to BTE+Ramp into fattieis better than a 3/3 experiment 1 on curve in my opinion (and you cant even make him a 3/3 on T2). AND lets say that my deck is operating somewhat right and I can only evolve either card once. Getting a 2/3 for 2 versus a 2/2 bear for 1 is a huge difference. I'll take the 2/3 that can ramp me against so many decks, and a 3/4 is just a god on the
battlefield it feels like (with the possibility to tap out for huge monstroust/clan defiance/ skarrg guidlmage).

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Post #35 by Link » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:13 am

Against this midrange meta, I need to get better at using Ruric Thar.

I'm just too used to optimizing damage in the early turns or wherever possible, that I need to realize "hey if I protect this ruric thar they are going to take 6 or just get stomped by rampagers and Boon satyrs on him."

I think he's a bit too midrangey for me now. He's honestly unecessary in the control match-up, where I utilize mana very effectively already and its usually unlikely I can untap after a verdict and slam down ruric thar, mostly Im slamming down hammer and hasted dudes or another Planeswalker.

So cutting ruric thar, moving skarrg guildmage to the main.

I still dont want to play a "value" card like mortars.

I'm gonna be retrying ground assault for the mirror and midrange decks. It can answer more things than mortars (which is a more controlling card that you overload to get ahead). being able to ground
assault a advent of the wurm, Polukranos in the mirror (huge), ember swallower, etc, seems like it could be a very powerful effect and I think I was a bit too arrogant leaning only on shocks as my interaction card because I was underestimating the midrange decks that are popping up that I can't just "go under" and who interact with me just enough and then put me on the back foot.

so -2 ruric thar main.

Also taking out polis crushers MB. I think its better as "lolu" sideboard tech that I dont show off game 1. They blow selesnya charm on early things then try to cruise on unflinching courage, and i just get em with the crusher. destructive revelry is "nicer" because its instant and they dont see it, and I do like combat tricks. Polis crusher beats them down when the dust is cleared though which revelry doesnt (you kill the unflinching on my advent? ok well I still have a 5/5 wurm....)

-2 polis crusher mb

+2 skarrg guildmage
+1 scavenging ooze (up to 3)
+1 polukranos,
world eater.

Polukarnos is huge in the mirror and I need to see him more often. Being able to have a 7/7 and shock an elf is incredibly powerful. I had a guy play his own polukranos to fight mine with his domri he had out just to deal with him.

testing out these changes tonight for states tomorrow

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Post #36 by Link » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:40 am

12th place Skarrg guildmage x4 made it in!

[deck=Joe Bowers]Creatures (25)

4 Ember Swallower
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Satyr Hedonist
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Polukranos, World Eater
Planeswalkers (7)

4 Domri Rade
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
Lands (24)

8 Forest
8 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
Spells (4)

4 Mizzium Mortars
Sideboard

4 Nylea's Disciple
4 Skarrg Guildmage
4 Magma Jet
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

magma jet over shcok in the side. No mutavaults at all for consistency, Nylea's disciple stops Fanatic of Mogis pretty well.

Looks pretty solid and streamlined, though clearly going for the more midrange approach. I mean mortars your stuff then blast your lands isnt a bad strategy, and if the mana can be made to work and it doesnt fold to control its not that bad.

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Post #37 by Link » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:18 am

hell maybe I do just want experiment one and be a low curve aggro deck with solid mana sinks.... thanks for the advice helios. Maybe 2/2 beaters on T2 is just what I need more of to get me going. I mean my mystics were going on the offensive a decent amount today

Edit: I think... I think I do like it. A lot.

[deck=Ragehammer]
28 Creatures
4 Experiment One
4 Gyre Sage
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boon Satyr
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Deadbridge Goliath
2 Polukranos, World-Eater
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Skarrg Guildmage

24 Land
8 Forests
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of abandon

6 Noncreature
4 Domri Rade
1 Clan Defiance
1 Hammer of Purphorous[/deck]

gonna work out the SB, but I definitely think I want war chant here if Im going lower.

Also love that hammer golems evolve late game experiment ones and gyre sages.... Seems sweet.

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Post #38 by Link » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:56 am

still workin the kinks out in testing, so I don't want to give a Sb yet.

The options are
Ruric Thar for control
Polis Crusher/destructive revelry for G/W decks/Junk Whip decks
Arbor Colossus for Stormbreath dragon and desecration demon
Gruul Warchant to be able to push through more damage with all your dudes
Ground Assault/Mizzium Mortars/Magma Jet/Shock for spot removal in MUs you deem necessary.

I'm honestly considering cutting Domris from the main for Magma jets/Mortars/Lightning strikes. Jets are just that good at ensuring you curve out, and with 8 evolve creatures its neccesary like you wouldn't believe. Also might let me hedge on a few more temples, like temple of abandons for 1 forest 1 mountain.


Domri just isn't that aggressive at the end of the day. He's solid guy and awesome removal value, but when Im the beatdown it just feels like I need more beatdown not something that might draw me more
cards that everyone and their sister is used to removing by now.

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Post #39 by Link » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:22 pm

Ok, so after testing with mono green, Yarpus was right all along. Ragehammer really should be just mono green for consistency, and we lose GCR but gain Nylea, Garruk, and hyper ramp with Nykthos. Also more mutavaults.

I'm not giving up on gruul yet though. I think the reason to go gruul is a bit greedy: ramp into double costing red cards that are very powerful (Chandra is powerful, Ember swallowers' monstrous is very good in midrange at making your mana creatures better).

In bullet form the reasons to play Gruul over Mono G are:
-Chandra Pyromaster as an awesome engine
-Ember Swallower to armageddon lands while also having mana creatures in play to starve opponents
- Access to Hammer to be able to just trump control
-Access to Skarrg Guildmage as another powerful threat and mana sink against control
-Domri Rade engine
-Ruric Thar

So I need a deck that takes advantage of these engine, but also isn't just "
ramp" deck that is flawed because it can't kkill with its ramp.

Zvi's hypermana article has inspired me to go back to G/R monsters. It also reinforced my deckbuilding beliefs because "every card needs to be a threat or mana" is one of his tenets for building ramp. Mortars is powerful and allows you to x-1 people, but against other decks going long you are left with a dead card and a bunch of dorks.

His article ALSO encouraged me that stormbreath dragon is unnecessary, because of the key point:

In this format it is very likely that you ramp from 2-4 on T3, and from 4 to 6 as well given the mana creatures are mostly 2 mana instead of 1 cmc dorks. With this I am going to be crafting a deck again from scratch with t3 "4 cmc monster" and ruric thar at the top end again.


I'm going to be considering experiment 1 though, with 2 mana creatures that evolve him and can beat down (voyaging satyr being key in that he can fix for double red). 0/3 plant will be given consideration,
but I'm still not a fan.

Decks I'm aiming at: being able to beat the mirror with stormbreath and useless plants
-G/B desecration demon midrange decks
-Junk midrange
-Esper
-G/W

While still also respecting mono red with the SB.

Other considerations:

Mystic allows me to stay on curve and also play 4 temple of abandon +1-2 guildgate (I really want to hit double red on curve), so he might get consideration over experiment one because I can T1 mystic, t2 guildgate 2mana dork. They can kill one dork, and you still cast a 4 cmc spell.

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Post #40 by Link » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:34 pm

updated the primer with a section on mana creatures, split into two categories:

Threat ramp and Fixing ramp.

Gyre sage and ZTD are ramp that can actually win the game (not by themselves, but progress you there)

plant, voyaging, and manaweft are color fixers that are very weak on their own


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