New Card Talk & Future Brews[Post-JOU] Boros Burn

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Elricity
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Post #81 by Elricity » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:52 pm

Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:47 am wrote:[deck]

Brainstorming ideas for IQ this saturday. I'm really at a loss, I feel like I can't improve both the hexproof and control matchup at the same time. I also expect to see more archangel getting played. Im also worried about control players being able to pack up to 8 o rings... is there anything we can do about this?


If control decides to go to 8 o ring, don't play permanents. YP and CP aren't that impressive in the matchup. Control actually isn't going to do that though because d-sphere ruins banishing light spam's day.

The normal mana base shell doesn't need mana confluence. 18 r, 11 w, 4 b is perfectly fine.

And if you think the meta will be hexproof, aggro and control packing 8 o rings plus archangel?

[deck=Incredibly Purp
meta specific deck]
Land

3 Mutavault
3 Boros guildgate
1 Mana confluence
6 mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence

Rest of maindeck

37 spells from Purp's list

Sideboard

2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Celestial Flare
4 T/t
1 Mutavault
1 Chain (10 mountains)
1 Banishing Light
1 Skullcrack
2 Assemble (seriously don't see mono black going away)
1 Chandra[/deck]

If you know control is packing 8 o ring, then font of ire is awful.

Sideboard vs aggro: -3 skullcrack, -4 boros charm (I know it's decent sometimes vs aggro but not as consistant), +2 mortar, +2 flare, +1 chain, +1 o ring, +1 Chandra. Drop something for the vault if you care enough but I think you can make do without a land when you're packing that much hate. You might have to change this vs red decks flinging peak eruptions by keeping some number of charms.

Sideboard vs hexproof: -2 searing blood, -2 chain, -1 flames, +2 flare, +1 o ring, +1 skullcrack, 1 vault. You drop the creature interaction
spells, you have the option of trying to burn them out through lifegain, boros charm or flare their creature, o ring the key stuff, or lifegain struggle your way past them. Still not great but you play to what you have. Drop a phoenix or two if you want to keep the chains for their non hexproof creatures.

Sideboard vs control: -8 creatures, -2 chain, +1 skullcrack, +1 vault, +4 t/t, +2 mortar, +2 flare. They now have a ton of dead cards (o rings and creature kill), you have 4 ways to remove their scary creatures that are spells +1 o ring for an emergency, and you nova. Yes, this means you keep searing blood for archangel, vaults, and elspeth tokens. This is a very risky next level plan if they don't go the direction you expect though. If they do though, you fuck their christmas.
Last edited by Elricity on Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #82 by Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:57 pm

I dont know if control is packing 8 orings, probably not. Im just being speculative for all scenarios. Basnishing Light makes SBD value go up imo.
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Post #83 by Elricity » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:01 pm

Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:57 am wrote:I dont know if control is packing 8 orings, probably not. Im just being speculative for all scenarios. Basnishing Light makes SBD value go up imo.


Ok, if they don't:

-2 chain, -2 seearing blood, -4 shock, +1 o ring, +1 chandra, +4 t/t. +1 crack, +1 vault

At least you have the option of going either direction.

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Post #84 by Elricity » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:06 pm

Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:28 am wrote:This deck has done well in 3 online JOU tourneys

[deck]
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
16 Mountain
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack
2 Aurelia's Fury


4 Burning Earth
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Boros Reckoner
[/deck]


There is so much wrong with that deck that I don't know where to start.

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Post #85 by LaZerBurn » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:33 pm

Elricity » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:06 pm wrote:
Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:28 am wrote:This deck has done well in 3 online JOU tourneys

[deck]
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
16 Mountain
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack
2 Aurelia's Fury


4 Burning Earth
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Boros Reckoner
[/deck]


There is so much wrong with that deck that I don't know where to start.

Oh I don't know, many's the time I've wished my Chains were Aurelia's Fury :D
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Post #86 by Elricity » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:39 pm

I gave that such an effort being my pet card for DGM and was disappointed (always once a set). Though, 8 white and no mutavaults particularly made me cringe. If they're trying to make burning earth work, at least a few plains would be nice. There's consistancy and then there's just overkill.

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Post #87 by Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:01 pm

the creature count seems pretty solid.
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Post #88 by Purp » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 pm

This doesn't seem bad.

[deck]
3 YP$
1 Ash Zealot
4 Phoenix
[/deck]
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Post #89 by Crims0n » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:09 am

in what kind of meta would running 2 stormbreath be good in? one dominated by UW? I kind of like it with the new o-ring seeing a lot of play.

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Post #90 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:11 pm

[deck]
3 YP$
2 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 WLH
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood

2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks

4 Scared Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Conflux (instead of the guildgate, I am adding this simply for another untapped t2 red or and untapped white when I need it)
7 Mountain


SB
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

Could easily -1 AZ for +1 FotF. I think I also might find room for +1 Spark Trooper in the board.

Thoughts?
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Post #91 by LaZerBurn » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:47 pm

Think you need Wear and 3 Banishing Light?
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Post #92 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:04 pm

I probably don't need 3 Banishing light, but I do like having 1 wear as an instant speed answer to things. Possibly -1 Banishing Light +1 Spark Trooper.

1
[deck]
3 YP$
2 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 WLH
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood

2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks

4 Scared Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Conflux (instead of the guildgate, I am adding this simply for another untapped t2 red or and untapped white when I need it)
7 Mountain


SB
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Spark Trooper
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]


2
[deck]
4 YP$
1 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros
Charm
4 WLH
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood

2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks

4 Scared Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Conflux (instead of the guildgate, I am adding this simply for another untapped t2 red or and untapped white when I need it)
7 Mountain


SB
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Spark Trooper
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]


3
[deck]
3 YP$
1 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 WLH
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood
1 FotF

2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks

4 Scared Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Conflux (instead of the guildgate, I am adding this simply for another untapped t2 red or and untapped white when I need it)
7 Mountain


SB
2 Chained to
the Rocks
1 Spark Trooper
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]



4
[deck]
4 YP$
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 WLH
3 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood
1 FotF

2 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks

4 Scared Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Conflux (instead of the guildgate, I am adding this simply for another untapped t2 red or and untapped white when I need it)
7 Mountain


SB
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Spark Trooper
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear//Tear
1 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]


Laid out so many because it helps me to just look at them.
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Post #93 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:14 pm

Looking at them, I might want a 3rd Mizzium Mortars to hedge for a rise in possible x/4 creatures or possibly one anger.

Could Boros Reckoner just be better than Mortars in the matchups we want it(also helps with hexproof)?
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Post #94 by LaZerBurn » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:26 pm

I like version 4 the best. I'd run 2 CttR and 1 BL main (speed with Aggro expected) with 2 CttR and 1 BL in the SB though. I'd run Banishing Light over Wear for the flexibility, also doubles up as the 3rd Mortars. This gives 8 terror efffects with 2 Banishing Light replacing 2 MM and bringing much greater flexibility to the list.

I still prefer MM to Reckoner - better Vs MonoU, great synergy with YP, overload potential.

At the end of the day I think you're best running the list you like the most Purp, the differences are minimal and I think being happy with your list and SB plan goes a long way :)
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Post #95 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:39 pm

I am just at a loss for what we can do to improve hexproof, without hurting other matchups.
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Post #96 by LP, of the Fires » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:48 pm

Hexproof's simple. you lose to it. If it becomes big in the meta, you either pick up a new deck, or warp your deck/sideboard to turn an unwinnable matchup into a bad one, lose a lot, then pick up a new deck.

Really straightforward.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


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Post #97 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:00 pm

It makes more sense when a black guy says it.
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Post #98 by magicdownunder » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:10 pm

Purp you play online (I mean MTGO) right? You've must have noticed that Aggro decks have spiked up which pushed Jund into no.4 and in turn pushed up Devour Flesh and friends.

Hexproof went from No.6-7 into no.13 as a result. Thus I believe that you may see them in the first few weeks or in local/SCG event for awhile but I doubt you'll see them in a months time or in GP (not as long as Bx and Control stay dominate).

I'm going to build my post JOU list to focus on beating the anti-Aggro lists for the first week and carry on from that point.
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Post #99 by Purp » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:17 pm

Yeah MDU, I agree. The thing is I will be playing in both an IQ (on release weekend) and Open the next weekend, so I was wondering if there is anyway to hedge. I will just need to get lucky with matchups.

@MDU I would like to know your thoughts on the creature base (from the ones I had listed above)
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Post #100 by magicdownunder » Thu May 01, 2014 5:15 am

I like the creature based in list 1-3 for an aggressive meta game, I really dislike Searing Blood without Ash so if I want to run Blood (which you do vs Aggro) I'll also force Ash into the list.

I should note that I'm rather bias with cards like Flames.
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Post #101 by magicdownunder » Fri May 02, 2014 1:48 pm

[deck=MDU's RW Burn]Lands 23
7 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice
1 Boros Guildgate

Creatures 9
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Enchantments 4
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light

Burns 24
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock

Sideboard 15
3 Toil // Trouble
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Boros Reckoner
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon[/deck]

Why Stormbreath Dragon? Because its good against UW, Bg (decay, BB, cure does nothing), Ux Devotion and is strong vs Gx

Why Boros Reckoner? Because I couldn't justify Anger, so he is my 1 sided board sweep on legs and because he is good against Gx, Rx and Wx too an extent....

Why 2x [
card]Banishing Light[/card] MD? Because I ALWAYS wanted to play 4x chains MD but I couldn't justify it.

Will I post my SB plans? If we have enough people interested in debating the theoretical MUs sure.... but it may turn out too be fruitless.
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Post #102 by Purp » Fri May 02, 2014 2:38 pm

I like it, I would probably switch up the SB though. I want 2x Wear//Tear to deal with hexproof. With 2 Wear and 2 banishing light +4 skullcrack, we have 8 answers to courage. With them jamming 4x mana confluence in their deck, hopefully then dealing atleast 3 damage to themselves and gaining no life really helps us win this matchup. I do like the dragon, however I am not sure it's better than ash zealot or searing blood in the opening weeks of the format ( I want answers to aggro before turn 5).
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Post #103 by hoeiberg » Fri May 02, 2014 5:26 pm

I like SBD if MBD gets less popular, it does look kind of silly against Desecration Demon though, and will just eat a doom blade and roll over. But if MBD turns into Bg or Bw then i think SBD could be quite strong. Against Uw he is obviously a house, i don't know about Esper though, they pack quite a lot of black removal. I'm torn on him, but if the meta develops right he could be nuts.

Reckoner? Well you are the expert, but if Athreos becomes a thing (and i expect it will at least in the early format) i could see the exile from Anger becoming very relevant.

The deck looks solid and i like your argument for O-ring, but it's obviously very hard to make accurate predictions of the meta after JOU.

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Post #104 by montu » Fri May 02, 2014 10:51 pm

@MDU - Looks like a solid start.

I got my fist round of paper cards today - a booster box and fat pack. Looks like my daughter's WW deck is going to benefit more than anything I would run.

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