[Primer] G/R Monsters

[Purp]

Your turn 2 play dies to BB and other spot removal.. why play it over caratid? Ive read the thread, and it still makes no sense why you would want it

[magicdownunder]

Cause its cute and can be good?

[Purp]

cute...

[Link]

Scavenging ooze is everything LP said it was.


like how does white weenie/mono blue/red finish you off when you gain 6 life.


Or are you talking about gyre sage?

yeah gyre sage is just a high variance card (like most evolve cards). It helps a lot versus mono black and control, who cares if they 1-1 you with bile blight? I rather have a 3/4 gyre sage kill them those games when they 1-1 all my other threats...

I'm just hoping fanatic of xenagos makes the curve good enough to play gyre sage over caryatid. I do like the boon satyrs but I think you can't go wrong playing at LEAST one ooze probably 2.

I'll probably run some combo of boon satyrs/scoozes until I pick up my Xenagods. I don't imagine the fanatics will be hard to aquire

[LP, of the Fires]

I don't personally give a fuck whether you play caryatid or gyre sage, but I personally play caryatid. Sage isn't a mandork. It's a card with abilities that does a lot of things sometimes.

[Link]

But is a T2 mana dork really what you even want anymore LP?

I mean they said there was no 2nd elf for a reason and the reason is thats what the deck REALLY needs.

I mean T3 polukranos and Xenagos are hot and all but when they just get thoughtseized or downfalled I really just want to jam some 3 drops in their face on T3 (or T2!) that make my 2-drop not embarassing.



I don't do maths

but when I do

gyre sage now has at least 7 cards that evolve her on T3 with no elvish mystic draw. (and if you adjust the curve it go up to as many as 10 with 4 boon satyr 4 fanatic 2 scooze).

Or we could go back to playing kalonian tusker and ask them which one they want to bile blight bro.

But that's just me and my aggro self speaking. I'm sure with midrange you just go hurrdurr caryatid and hope your planeswalkers take over the game...(but if thats the route you're going for G/r devotion is seriously the way to go
with Garruk and the new 2/4 dude)

[LP, of the Fires]

Friends of mine are telling me G/U devotion is the way to go if you like nykthos.

Seeing as that's neither here, nor there, I reiterate I don't care what 2 you play. Either approach is probably fine.

But I do appreciate the analysis

Am in interested in how courser of kurphis plays with the deck since it just goes so well with domri. Unsure if that heavy durdle midrange deck is viable though.

[Valdarith]

I'm glad we're having this conversation now because I was about to initiate it.

Personally, if they're using removal on my Gyre Sage, I am very pleased. It's one less removal spell for my fatties, but it comes with a risk of having needed that extra mana for a five drop later in the game.

If we're running 24 lands, I think Gyre Sage is fine. If we go to 23 I prefer Caryatid since having that assured source of mana is huge.

The next conversation needs to be Fanatic of Xenagos vs Courser of Kruphix. I said earlier that this more aggressive deck may prefer Fanatic, but now I'm not so sure. Fanatic doesn't dodge instant speed Bile Blight and Courser is a better defender against aggressive decks with CA upside. Fanatic is definitely the more aggressive card, and trample is a big deal when we're trying to push through that extra bit of damage, but do we really need him when we run Rampager, Polukranos, and
Stormbreath Dragon?

[redthirst]

The first Scooze is potentially great. The second one is likely a Grizzly Bear.

It is both a solid turn 2 and late game play, though, assuming there are targets for its ability.

Re: Fanatic vs Courser - Personally, I like cards that get me more cards so I like Courser.

[Valdarith]

Got in a lot of games tonight and concluded that I like Caryatid but don't like Courser here. It just sat there most of the time doing nothing, and if we're running Caryatid we can't afford another do-nothing even if it does occasionally spike a land.

[Valdarith]

Have to go to bed now, but when I test next I want to try this out:

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fanatic of Xenagos
3 Boon Satyr
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, God of Revels

Spells (9)
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

Lands (23)
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Stomping Ground
5 Mountain
10 Forest
[/deck]

[Valdarith]

Missing one slot. It's Scavenging Ooze. Also -1 Satyr for another Ooze.

[LP, of the Fires]

Didn't see you online =(

[Valdarith]

Yeah, I saw your message awhile after you sent it. Cockatrice needs a better notification than a little green exclamation point in the corner. It's impossible to see when you tunnel vision during a game like I do.

[Valdarith]

Now with sideboard!

[deck=Valdarith's Gruulhammer]
Creatures (28)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fanatic of Xenagos
2 Boon Satyr
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, God of Revels

Spells (9)
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

Lands (23)
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Stomping Ground
5 Mountain
10 Forest

Sideboard (15)
2 Hunt the Hunter
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Plummet
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Flesh / Blood
2 Nylea's Disciple
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
[/deck]

General thoughts: I don't feel like I need an answer to Master of Waves beyond what the deck already has. Polukranos does work and I can bring in removal from the board to keep devotion low. I also have no idea what my postboard strategy vs mono black should be. I feel like the 60 is pretty strong against them and I'd only side in a couple of
cards. UWx would get the most action from the board, and I feel like the red matchup is pretty good as well.

vs UWx: +3 Mistcutter Hydra, +2 Destructive Revelry, +2 Flesh / Blood, +1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, -2 Scavenging Ooze, -3 Mizzium Mortars, -3 Fanatic of Xenagos, . Scavenging Ooze is terrible here, Mortars is dead, and Fanatic is underwhelming because trample is irrelevant. Substitutions are self-evident.

vs Mono Blue Devotion: +1 Mizzium Mortars, +2 Plummet, +1 Flesh / Blood, +2 Nylea's Disciple, -2 Xenagos, the Reveler, -4 Fanatic of Xenagos. Bring in more removal and keep devotion low. Xenagos planeswalker is underwhelming here and Fanatic seems like the worst creature for this matchup. Nylea's Disciple helps make up for a possible aggressive curve into Master of Waves.

vs Rw Devotion: +2 Nylea's Disciple, +2 Destructive Revelry, -2 Xenagos, the Reveler, -2 Boon Satyr. Revelry for Chained to the Rocks and Hammer of Purphoros, Disciple for lifegain + wall for Ash Zealot and BTE.

vs
Mono Black Devotion: +2 Plummet, -2 Scavenging Ooze. I guess? Can't think of anything else I'd want against them and Ooze is our worst card. Only thing I fear from them postboard is Lifebane Zombie. Ruric Thar would be nice but he comes down late and that just gives them more time to hit it with Thoughtseize or Zombie.

vs Rw burn: +2 Nylea's Disciple, +2 Destructive Revelry, +1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, -2 Xenagos, the Reveler, -3 Mizzium Mortars. Xenagos planeswalker isn't necessary here, and Mortars is basically dead. Disciple for lifegain, Revelry for Chained to the Rocks, Ruric Thar for a lot of pain.

vs Gr Devotion and Gr Monsters: +2 Hunt the Hunter, +1 Mizzium Mortars, +2 Flesh / Blood, -2 Scavenging Ooze, -??????????. I don't know what to take out honestly.

Thoughts? What other matchups should I be concerned about? I'm sure some new things will pop up in the next couple of weeks which will force me to revisit this.

[Link]

run shock over the disciple.
you need a one man to terminate for soldier of the pantheon sometimes. better I guess red to really just kill you with Phoenix

[Link]

better against red text to speech is sad. also you don't need a wall for Asha and burning tree you need to kill it

[Link]

I dont like flesh out of the side either mean it or don't run it at all. with those slots you could have Chandra pyromaster she does a lot of work again zombie and gives you a plan against black

[Valdarith]

I've always thought Chandra to be very narrow in the black matchup except to ping Lifebane Zombie. Dies to Hero's Downfall and a backswing from Demon, but if we're playing 4 Domri and 2 Xenagos I can see this being less of an issue. Trying not to be jaded due to my results with Rx. She's decent against WW but they're going to play fewer one toughness creatures so probably not nearly as good. Our WW matchup is already hilariously easy so I can't imagine wanting her. She is very good against control though.

Question is what to take out for her in the black matchup. Maybe a couple Polukranos since he's a four mana 5/5 that gets taken by Lifebane? I don't want to take out too many creatures and dilute the deck...

Good point regarding Disciple. Killing their devotion is better.

[Link]

Gyre sage has been impressing me

[Valdarith]

Kent Ketter is currently running G/R Monsters in the top 8 of SCG Nashville with Courser of Kruphix instead of Fanatic of Xenagos and it is quite impressive. I've been debating tossing the Fanatics for Coursers and keeping the pair of Boon Satyrs.

He's also running some number of Chandra in the main along with Domri and Xenagos.

[Valdarith]

He just made top 4 by casually crushing B/W midrange.

[zemanjaski]

Courser > Fanatic not close.

[Valdarith]

I think I'm going to go with 3 Courser in my list. Drawing multiples is clunky and it's a bit defensive which feels bad in a deck already running Mystic and Caryatid. I'm thinking 3-3 split of him and Boon Satyr.

[redthirst]

I think I'm going to go with 3 Courser in my list.

Dat 180.

People testing: anyone tried Skylasher against UW and MUD?

[Valdarith]

Yeah I've tested lists with and without him and at first I was leaning on Fanatic because there were times where Courser just sat there and did nothing because of his lack of power. But he generates enough value to merit inclusion. I think my issue was running four. Three seems best to me.

[Valdarith]

Thinking about this.

[deck]
4 elvish mystic
4 sylvan caryatid
3 courser of kruphix
3 boon satyr
4 ghor-clan rampager
3 polukranos, world eater
2 xenagos, god of revels
4 stormbreath dragon

4 domri rade
3 mizzium mortars
2 xenagos, the reveler
1 chandra, pyromaster

4 temple of abandon
4 stomping ground
11 forest
4 mountain
[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, something like that looks good to me.

[zemanjaski]

I think I would want a Scavenging Ooze in the maindeck. Just a really good card imo.

[Valdarith]

I cut it for the fourth Caryatid in that list but a singleton might be nice.

[Purp]

You can easily get away with 2 mutavaults. My buddy Justin (guy playing GR and beat Brad Nelson on camera) said he had no problem with casting cards due to mutavault.) He was playing fanatic, I would imagine with courser it shouldn't be a problem.

[Valdarith]

Way too loose IMO. You need 14-15 untapped green sources for a turn one Elvish Mystic, and you need 12 red sources + 3-4 Caryatid to hit RR for Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra. The math just isn't there to support Mutavault.

[Link]

you can usually "Get away" with it yeah... but the games where you are forced to mull or you just flat lose bc of your mana base are not ok.


4 mountains doesnt look right either... I usually run 6 especially with that chandra and not scooze (heavy green requirement). Double ghor-clan is also RR in requirement ;D

[Valdarith]

I'm running four Caryatid though, and I want 15 untapped green sources for Elvish Mystic.

[Jack]

Since this has become very close to a tier 1 deck, this thread should probably be moved to the competitive section.

[Valdarith]

More testing done, including against Kamahl's Bant Walkers deck.

1) I'm an idiot for not wanting the full four Courser of Kruphix. I was being too results oriented and not paying attention to long term value. Card is insane, even vs control.
2) Boon Satyr is nice. Does some serious work against control and is a great late-game play against all decks.
3) Xenagod continues to be insane, and I differ from Kent Ketter's build by running two. With Gr increasing in popularity in my local meta, having an extra Xenagod pushes that match in my favor.
4) Speaking of Kent Ketter, I think his list is damn near optimized. In fact, our 75 is 2-3 cards off.
5) I cut Scavenging Ooze and haven't missed it one bit.
6) I now run one Chandra main and one side. Results have been good.

[redthirst]

Post the Kent list please - sounds close to what I'm currently doing.

[Toddington]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=63367 ?

[deck=Kent Ketter's GR Monsters, 2nd Place at SCG Nashville on 2/8/2014]
Lands (24)
7 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malice

Planeswalkers (7)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

Spells (4)
4 Mizzium Mortars

Creatures (25)
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Xenagos, God of Revels

Sideboard
2 Arbor Colossus
4 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Plummet
2 Unravel the Aether
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Flesh
[/deck]

[redthirst]

Danka Todd.

Yeah, that's pretty close, though I've not seen any reason to drop Boon Satyr.

[Valdarith]

For the sake of clarity, here is what Kent is suggesting now:

[deck=Kent Ketter's Gr Monsters]
Creatures (25)
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Xenagos, God of Revels

Planeswalkers (7)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Domri Rade
1 Xenagos, the Reveler

Lands (24)
7 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mystery

Spells (4)
1 Flesh
3 Mizzium Mortars

Sideboard (15)
2 Arbor Colossus
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Gruul Charm
2 Plummet
2 Unravel the Aether
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Flesh
[/deck]

I've been testing a singleton Boon Satyr because I like its flexibility as a 3 or 5 drop plus flash to play around control. I also have two Xenagos planeswalkers, two Xenagod, one Chandra main, and only three Polukranos (I'm in the minority with that
decision). I am also running the full four Mizzium Mortars as a concession to my local meta forcing Brimaz and Gr growing in popularity, and moved the maindeck Flesh / Blood to the side.