[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Yarpus]

Can anyone show an actual decklist of Jund?

[lorddax]

Lost to Jund in top 4. My fault. Was too high off smashing Jund game 2 and was playing to fast and ended up tilting Animated my t2 mutavault on t3 with him having two open and watched it disappear as I realized I now had burning earth, hellrider, and vault stranded in hand. Lands Liliana and ooze and softlocks me out as I dont have enough mana to ever empty hand into two creatures onboard.

Opp went on to play Junk Reanimator in the finals and squeeze it out with tight tech play following Junds slim lines in the MU capitalizing on his opponent hitting a bit too many lands off Deadbridge with all action getting Oozed.

All in all not a bad weekend come in 2nd at FNM for 20cred and then 4th for Gameday netting another 10. Started Friday at $8.17 credit, -0 FNM Member's entry fee(prolly whole reason Im playing this season, buy store
membership that 3-7 dollars off entry fees) +20 FNM prize -7 Gameday Member Entry +10 GD Prize. Sitting around 30 store credit currently. Grinding KDW since Rav release has paid off and I think Im now positive for season after this weekend.

Thinking about flipping Thundermaws for credit before they drop. Good idea or are they seeing Modern play? Don't want to drop cards that Im gonna need later.

[hamfactorial]

I think a lot of people will dump their Hellkites prior to rotation, and the price has already tanked on them. If you have a playset, you can make $60 on them now and buy them again if you need any. UWR is using them in Modern as a 2/3-of finisher, but the demand isn't very high.

I'm going to hold onto mine in paper, but I sold them on MTGO because redemption for mythic rares keep the prices high for a while.

[TubeHunter]

Finished 3-2-1 getting ousted in the top 8 by bant hexproof.

thundermaws are seeing fringe play in modern, id probably sell them if you want the most value


Tommorow is a dual legacy/vintage double proxy event, taking Tin fins for legacy, and MUD for vintage. Can't wait!

[Kazekirimaru]

[deck]
Land
23 Island
24 Mountain
4 Reliquary Tower
3 Ghost Quarter
Not Land
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Lightning Storm
Sideboard(Mostly Land)
8 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Bojuka Bog
2 Zombie Infestation
[/deck]

3-1 At the LGS. Lulz.

[Jack]

Lightning Storm is probably the coolest win-con I've seen for a Treasure Hunt deck. I'd build it, just like I'd build AiR, but I already have 2 or 3 playable decks in Modern that I want to stick with. I might try to sell Soul Sisters to upgrade one of my other decks more, but I don't like infect too much and the whole soul sisters deck isn't even worth the fetches for burn or Gruul zoo. I'm not sure if my Sisters deck is one that "rewards technical play", which was one of Alexis key points in his modern article. Fuck, why didn't I just buy the fetches when they were still $20 - $30?
Why don't I just play Legacy?

[PirateKingAtomsk]

[deck]
Land
23 Island
24 Mountain
4 Reliquary Tower
3 Ghost Quarter
Not Land
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Lightning Storm
Sideboard(Mostly Land)
8 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Bojuka Bog
2 Zombie Infestation
[/deck]

3-1 At the LGS. Lulz.

oh god reminds me of a friends goblin charbelcher deck.

[Link]

ham you ever post your gruul zoo list?

[hamfactorial]

It's a pretty bad budget brew right now, but I'm happy to share.

[deck]Modern Budget Gruul Zoo[/deck]

[Alex]

Went 7-1 and I lost to (get this) tribal vampires in the finals. Stromkirk Captain is kind of a beating.

[windstrider]

Stromkirk Captain is an underrated card.

[Khaospawn]

Stromkirk Captain is perfectly fine as long it's done safely.

[Alex]

Stromkirk Captain is an underrated card.

First Striking Nighthawks do not fuck around.

[photodyer]

Yeah, with Reanimator at a low and Mutavault to accelerate lord effects, Vamps is more viable (AoS wrecks the deck). If Wraths start showing up in main decks again with any reguarity, the tribe will be undercut again.

Were you playing against a mid/control list or a more creature-heavy build, Alex? Nocturnus? I'm building a Br list that transforms out of the board into a Zombie aggro list just to troll at FNM...I have to get a little more play out of all of the great ISD movie monsters before they rotate out.

[Alex]

It was basically Rakdos Aristocrats. It played Goblin Diplomats, Nighthawks, Stromkirk Captains, and Falkenrath Aristocrats, as well as 3 Blood Artists and some number of removal. Goblin Diplomats was a total beating, forcing me to attack with my win conditions into First Striking Nighthawks.

I did kill him in one game with double Staff of Nin (since you can shoot down every threat) but aside from that I just got my ass beat.

[photodyer]

Interesting...Diplomats does sound pretty fun with first-striking deathtouch...

I'm surprised at no Keeper, but the 4-slot in vamps is the biggest issue with the tribe because everything you want is there.

[zemanjaski]

Diplomats is also a huge win-more; it's not like they are playable without the other pieces. Stromkirk Captain isn't underrated, it's just that vampires are multiple creatures short of being a deck at 1 and 2 cc; you've got HUGE quality at 3-4; Cavern and Mutavault; but below that there is Stromkirk Noble. That's it.

[Khaospawn]

Looks like it was a Gruul deck that just took down GP Warsaw. Go Flinthoof Boar and Thundermaw!

[Platypus]

Diplomats is also a huge win-more; it's not like they are playable without the other pieces. Stromkirk Captain isn't underrated, it's just that vampires are multiple creatures short of being a deck at 1 and 2 cc; you've got HUGE quality at 3-4; Cavern and Mutavault; but below that there is Stromkirk Noble. That's it.

Child of Night got reprinted in M14. That on second turn followed by Stromkirk Captain is pretty ok.

[zemanjaski]

It's not the worst.

[DroppinSuga]

Silly question here, but would anyone be willing to trade me 3 M14 Chandras and 3 Young Pyromancers?

[zemanjaski]

Modern:

4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

2 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
4 Spell Snare

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents

5 Island
1 Mountain

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm fond of Magma Jet in UR Delver but that's just me. That list looks solid.

[Kazekirimaru]

Can anyone show an actual decklist of Jund?

Standard or Modern?

[Valdarith]

Won gameday since I was first and took an ID with second place. We both wanted the playmat but he offered to give me all the store credit for it and I couldn't refuse. I ended up with $65 store credit. He was on Naya Blitz so I didn't feel too confident in the match anyway. We played it out and he won 2-1. Overall I am very happy with my deck and think it's exactly where Dos Rakis wants to be.

[photodyer]

Diplomats is also a huge win-more; it's not like they are playable without the other pieces. Stromkirk Captain isn't underrated, it's just that vampires are multiple creatures short of being a deck at 1 and 2 cc; you've got HUGE quality at 3-4; Cavern and Mutavault; but below that there is Stromkirk Noble. That's it.

Agree on all points, zeman. Diplomats is an interesting enabler for this particular build, and I would think sideboard. And you've nailed vamps perfectly; there is no early game in the tribe, but then suddenly at 4 you have this outrageous selection of creatures to fit many different archetypes. And regrettably, they have nothing truly playable beyond 4 (except of course Baron, but he pulls the deck into white when the best synergy
is with red), so you can't go with a solid midrange plan that won't get outclassed. The best option for the tribe still is likely early control/hand disruption and even sweepers into lord effects...which of course gets wrecked if the other guy can kill the lords.

Still, given the dominance of Burning Earth decks this weekend, being able to chump the other guy's hand and then clear their field with something like Temblor before going after board dominance seems worthy of consideration. Kibler's deck is designed to dodge Lifebane Zombie if both decks are playing on-curve, though, which kills the most value-added hand disruption at black's disposal. And maindecking something like AfB seems just too damn awkward in this format, particularly if one were trying to play Mutavault for tribal synergies. The curve gets hosed...crap. And of course Falkenrath Aristocrat is really awkward against Tmaw Hellkitty if
you aren't playing LS or something else to feed and protect it. Hmmm...

[Yarpus]

Standard or Modern?

Standard. Can't find whole Lifebane Jund at all.

[photodyer]

Okay...I'm back to where zeman started me thinking a few days back, but I what I want to do may be too ambitious from a color weight standpoint and just may not be worth doing in the first place..

First question: Is a midrange deck in Rakdos colors capable of beating Jund? If not, all the crap below is academic and we move on.

Assuming the possibility, here are my thoughts...

Looking at Dos Rakis from a midrange perspective...spend early turns killing their stuff, then start curving out with impactful creatures T3. The board would be transformational to a more traditional creature curve for control MU's.

(I realize that I likely could have approached this more simply, but I don't have time to go back and redo it now so please bear with me.)

Can the following be played together with reasonable hope of getting them out:

[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] - 1
Lifebane Zombie - 1
Desecration Demon - 2
Hellrider - 2
Chandra, Pyromaster - 2 (sideboard?)
Thundermaw Hellkite - 3

The remainder of the maindeck would be burn and removal for the most part. Phoenix may or may not make sense depending on how much burn the list runs, but a recurrent evasive threat would be welcome against other removal-inclusive decks. Hellrider is obviously not at his best without a supporting cast, but is a great creature by any standard and would work with the transformational plan. He might be better replaced by one of the flying vamps depending on the ultimate bent of the deck.

The main goal would be to hit Lifebane into DD and Hellkite; the Zombie grabs
big problem creatures (Tusk, angels of all flavors), and Demon + Dragon trumps just about anything another deck can throw out. The deck should be able from the start to squelch the early turn work of aggro decks then overrun them; against Jund the creature package comes in and we have the advantage of not being hit by Lifebane's ETB ability while running big flyers that they have to kill or be killed by.

Does this line of thinking make any sense at all or am I going too deep?

[windstrider]

Photo — The problem with a list like that is the same problem we had trying to make Vampire Nighthawk work in Dos Rakis: going from double red to double black is punishing on the mana base. The variance and inconsistency would probably prevent that from working out. When it did, it would be powerful, but you'd also be looking at dead cards in hand.

[photodyer]

@ strider - I never had an issue with VNH because we were running Cavern and thus more "black" sources (VNH just wasn't aggro enough). The issue then was also trying to go from T2 to 1 turn 3, which is more restrictive than hitting it by T3 into T4, but in this case Cavern is useless as the creatures are disparate types. On the other hand, however, not needing to hit Zealot mana on T2 means one should be able to play some Swamps. Don't get me wrong--I know there is potential for color screw. The first question though is whether the
ubiquitous nature of Lifebane in the current meta makes it worthwhile to try to "go big" without green or white. Is Desecration Demon still worth running without Mutilate or opportunities for lifegain? I'm throwing the concept out for consideration as the demon is really pretty strong in the meta right now, as is Hellkitty. It seems like they could be a beating in the same list.

[Yarpus]

Desecration Demon belongs to Mutilate decks. As he's 2 points above the curve, he survives T5 Mutilate and gets his way cleared to deal damage (opponent shouldn't have any creatures to sacrifice after Mutilate resolves). Without reliable sweeper that keeps him on the field, DD is pretty poor.
What about Exava? Hasty and brutal beater. She's probably going to be our new Hellrider after rotation as you can't joke on 4/4 Haste First Strike guy.

I believe you should play Mono B with Red splash. 8-10 Red Sources should make it possible for you to play Thundermaws and Burn. And you get huge consistency on Mutilate, DD and early discard. BR Control was actually the first deck I planned to run when RTR came out. <3 Try to play Rakdos Keyrune there as it's amazing for both acceleration and beating values.

[Valdarith]

Okay...I'm back to where zeman started me thinking a few days back, but I what I want to do may be too ambitious from a color weight standpoint and just may not be worth doing in the first place..

First question: Is a midrange deck in Rakdos colors capable of beating Jund? If not, all the crap below is academic and we move on.

Assuming the possibility, here are my thoughts...

Looking at Dos Rakis from a midrange perspective...spend early turns killing their stuff, then start curving out with impactful creatures T3. The board would be transformational to a more traditional creature curve for control MU's.

(I realize that I likely could have approached this more simply, but I don't have time to go back and redo it now so please bear
with me.)

Can the following be played together with reasonable hope of getting them out:

[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] - 1
Lifebane Zombie - 1
Desecration Demon - 2
Hellrider - 2
Chandra, Pyromaster - 2 (sideboard?)
Thundermaw Hellkite - 3

The remainder of the maindeck would be burn and removal for the most part. Phoenix may or may not make sense depending on how much burn the list runs, but a recurrent evasive threat would be welcome against other removal-inclusive decks. Hellrider is obviously not at his best without a supporting cast, but is a great creature by any standard and would work with the transformational plan. He might
be better replaced by one of the flying vamps depending on the ultimate bent of the deck.

The main goal would be to hit Lifebane into DD and Hellkite; the Zombie grabs big problem creatures (Tusk, angels of all flavors), and Demon + Dragon trumps just about anything another deck can throw out. The deck should be able from the start to squelch the early turn work of aggro decks then overrun them; against Jund the creature package comes in and we have the advantage of not being hit by Lifebane's ETB ability while running big flyers that they have to kill or be killed by.

Does this line of thinking make any sense at all or am I going too deep?

You have the right mindset but you're going too deep on black. I've been having the same thought with Jund and UWR being such a big player right now. I've had a lot of success going big with these two decks in games two and three, especially with Burning Earth in my sideboard.

I think you're looking for something like this:

[deck]
nCreatures (18)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells (17)
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Doom Blade
1 Dreadbore
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (25)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Mutavault
2 Swamp
10 Mountain
[/deck]

Every single one of your cards are strong so you never worry about topdecking Nobles or Cacklers. Phoenix, Aristocrat, and Hellkite all grant evasion with Hellkite clearing out spirit tokens for Aristocrat. Exava is a good alternative to Hellrider since you're running less than 20 creatures and she goes toe to toe with x/4s which Dos Rakis tends to have issues with otherwise.

[Yarpus]

My idea of decklist:

[deck]4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
4 Thundermaw Hellkite

4 Pillar of Flame
4 Appetite for Brains
4 Doom Blade
4 Searing Spear
4 Rakdos Keyrune
4 Mutilate

4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blood Crypt
16 Swamp

Sideboard (15):
4 Rakdos's Return
4 Dreadbore
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Rakdos Charm[/deck]

Against R-based aggro you just use Nighthawks instead of Lifebanes.
Against Control you use Dreadbore/Rakdos's Return instead of Pillar of Flame/Mutilate.
Against Midrange you use Dreadbore/Rakdos's Return instead of Pillar of Flame/Searing Spear.

[rcwraspy]

Vala I like that list a LOT. Very close to an "all haste" list I was thinking of a while ago, but of course a lot tighter of a list than I came up with.

What are your SB thoughts? First stab has me doing something along these lines, but I don't know if that's right. Maybe there should be a few copies of Olivia as well:

[deck]
Sideboard (15)
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Slaughter Games
3x Tragic Slip
[/deck]

[Valdarith]

Tournament report up in the Dos Rakis thread:

http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.p ... 512#p88512

[Valdarith]

Vala I like that list a LOT. Very close to an "all haste" list I was thinking of a while ago, but of course a lot tighter of a list than I came up with.

What are your SB thoughts? First stab has me doing something along these lines, but I don't know if that's right. Maybe there should be a few copies of Olivia as well:

[deck]
Sideboard (15)
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Slaughter Games
3x Tragic Slip
[/deck]

1) I wouldn't bother with Cavern. They can't counter all of your spells, and ALL of them are good, so eventually you will get in. This is the kind of inevitability that Jund has.

2) I prefer Electrickery over Flames in this
deck since you have so much powerful removal to begin with. And honestly with Bonfire you don't even need Electrickery here.

3) I prefer Sire of Insanity over RR because the only matchup I'm bringing RR in from the side in is Jund and UWR, and Sire is superior in UWR and I prefer to hedge more against that matchup than Jund. Two maindeck RR ought to be enough to take care of Jund.

4) Two Slaughter Games may be okay against UWR just to get Aetherling out of the way, but I'm not sure if I like it or not. Burning Earth would make sure they never get Aetherling online.

5) No need for Tragic Slip. Should be Burning Earth instead.

My sideboard:
[deck]
Sideboard (15)
1 Swamp
1 Dreadbore
1 Doom Blade
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Burning Earth
2 Sire of Insanity
2 Devil's Play
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Flex slots
[/deck]

Go big or go home.

[hamfactorial]

I discovered Guttural Response today while looking in Decked Builder and immediately want to play it in all of my Modern sideboards.

[toddulent]

I was on the FoS board on MTG Salvation. I dropped out for a while, because my schedule at work changed and I couldn't make it to ANY MtG events except Saturday and Sunday. Since there were none and it hasn't looked like my schedule would change, I sold my collection and invested in Kaijudo. I've been playing Kaijudo since April.

I am planning on getting back into MtG when Theros comes out. I've been looking at M14 cards and I don't see RDW getting much support to replace the staples that will rotate. However, I loved all R/x variants and figure I can jump back in with a budgeted version of RDW, Dos-Rakis, Gruul aggro, or even Jund Aggro. I want to start acquiring cards to be able to build these whenever I want. What are the staples I should be getting now anticapting rotation?

EDIT: Oh! Also, does anyone have a Dos-Rakis deck that does not include Innistrad block and M13?

[Kazekirimaru]

Standard or Modern?

Standard. Can't find whole Lifebane Jund at all.

[deck]

4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Lifebane Zombie
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thragtusk

1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Dreadbore
4 Farseek
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Putrify
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Tragic Slip

4 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetary

Sideboard
1 Barter in Blood
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Slaughter Games
2 Underworld Connections
[/deck]

[Kazekirimaru]

I was on the FoS board on MTG Salvation. I dropped out for a while, because my schedule at work changed and I couldn't make it to ANY MtG events except Saturday and Sunday. Since there were none and it hasn't looked like my schedule would change, I sold my collection and invested in Kaijudo. I've been playing Kaijudo since April.

I am planning on getting back into MtG when Theros comes out. I've been looking at M14 cards and I don't see RDW getting much support to replace the staples that will rotate. However, I loved all R/x variants and figure I can jump back in with a budgeted version of RDW, Dos-Rakis, Gruul aggro, or even Jund Aggro. I want to start acquiring cards to be able to build these whenever I want. What are the staples I should be getting now
anticapting rotation?

EDIT: Oh! Also, does anyone have a Dos-Rakis deck that does not include Innistrad block and M13?

Welcome back!