Dies to Removal

did you use the exact list above?

I used the one I posted where I said "this is where I am at"

Any feedback?

Hard to give much because I played mono black devotion 4 rounds out of the 5.

Lost a bunch of game 1 but won the rounds after sideboard.

Erebos was a house! Won me probably 4 games himself. Found we would both end up in top deck mode but drawning Cards made the difference.

On my phone so can't type much.

Another smaller event today tho

Lmao 2-1 at an event right now..

Played 3 more Mono black devotion decks... 7 in a row on the weekend but 5-2 against them

that's good. I expect the MBD will make up at least a third of the field at most events with BW midrange, Blue Devotion, and Esper making up another 40-50%

Well that's good since we have a good matchup against all of them (BBoV is a pain vs B/W midrange but that's what the SB devour fleshes are for)

Also I'm still pissed since I'm forced to keep testing with proxies (nobody wants to trade their vaults/rats/hero's downfalls fml)

Thanks Tyrael for letting me know this thread exists.

Other people told me not to start a thread in competitive yet.

Dpainne, not a known giver of fucks.

Relevant stuff from the other thread:

Re: Primer

Rakdos Shred-Freakdoes not die to everything! He is good because he doesn't die to Doom Bladeor Ultimate price. His devotion is for [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card] and Erebos, God of the Dead. His Human subtype is for Xathrid Necromancer.

OK, so I played Mono Black Aggro at FNM. I played this list:


[deck=JS's MBA ]Creatures (28)
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (22)
19 Swamp
3 Mutavault

Spells (10)
2 Bile Blight
4
Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)
4 Xathrid Necromancer
4 Dark Betrayal
2 Devour Flesh
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Duress [/deck]

I went 2-2 with winds against G/r Devotion and R/w Devotion and losses against U/w Devotion and W/u Aggro.

These are my observations:

1)I feel the deck needs slightly more removal. Certain cards in the aggro match up HAVE to die or you just lose. You can't race everything.

2)Lifebane Zombiewas the MVP in all of my matches. 3 power intimidate is huge vs decks not running much removal.

3) Pain Seer was ridiculous. I drew so many cards. It did kill me once, but it was worth it. The number of games where I had 5 cards in hand at the end of the game was amazing.

4) I drew [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card]more than I wanted to.You only really want it for the alpha strike.

5) Herrald of Tormenttook over the game every time I
could bestow it. I had one game where I was on one life and couldn't cast it, but I'll still file it under very good.

6) Brimaz is as good as advertised.

7) Discard package was slightly disappointing versus top deck hero's at my LGS.

8 ) The deck seemed to want 1 more land. There was more than one game where if I hit the 5th land I won, but I didn't get there.

I'm thinking of a few adjustments. I have two GPT's tomorrow (one after the other) and I think I'm going to play this:



[deck= JS's MBA 2.0 ]Creatures (26)
4 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (23)
20 Swamp
3 Mutavault
Spells (11)
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)
4 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Duress
1 Bile Blight
3 Doom Blade [/deck]

That is, unless there is a spicy list from the SCGO

SB Plan: (feedback appreciated)

VS GR Monsters
n+2 Erebos, God of the Dead, +1 Bile Blight, +3 Doom Blade
-4 Rakdos Shred-Freak, -2 Tormented Hero

VS UW/x Control
+4 Xathrid Necromancer, +2 Erebos, God of the Dead, +2 Duress
-3 Bile Blight, -1 [card]Hero's Downfall[/card], -4 Lifebane Zombie

VS U/x Devotion
+1 Bile Blight, +3 Doom Blade
-4 Rakdos Shred-Freak

VS MBD / BW Midrange
+4 Xathrid Necromancer, +3 Dark Betrayal, +2 Erebos, God of the Dead, +2Duress
-4 [card]Lifebane Zombie[/card:
tk60mjii],-3 Bile Blight, -2 [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card], -2 Rakdos Cackler

VS GW Aggro
+1 Bile Blight, +3 Doom Blade,
-4 Tormented Hero

Top 8'd a GPT this weekend with the above built / SB plan.

Mono Black Devo 2-0
Esper Midrange 2-1
Esper Control 2-0
GR Monsters 1-2 (Mull to five, draw nothing but swamps off the top G3)
ID
Top 8 VS BW Midrange 0-2 (G1 Mull to six, get thoughtseized, draw zero non-swamp cards off the top, G2 Keep a 2 lander, never draw another land, 6 three drops in hand when I die).

I didn't end up following the SB plan VS BW, I decided I wanted LBZ in.

After this weekend, I think -1 Swamp + 1 [card]Mogis's Marauder[/card].

Also curious about playing [card]
Spiteful Returned[/card].

You're playing a very different version of this deck than we are...

But that's good cuz I love the direction you've taken!

Is there a reason you're not on the pack rat plan?

1) I hate Pack Rat
2) Bile Blight, Dsphere, SV and and DiS are everywhere. Everyone I play is running one or more.
3) Pack Rat doesn't have synergy with anything.

Dpainne, you should talk to NBW about a banner for the primer. I will try to trim the videos just to the relevant parts so we can add them when we have time.

NVM, real pain in the ass to trim.

Videos:

Round 5 (24:40 start)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88PdIAAqWOA

Round 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaioG_HXEZk

Haven't you ever wished you had more removal? Also 23 lands for Bestow seems correct, I think you do need extra lands to play removals and threats on the same turn anyways.

I'm really concerned about BBV almost to the point where I'll argue running some [card]Far // Away[/card]. . .

P.S. I hate Pack Rats as well, but I think he is much too strong not too run.

I think pack rat becomes a lot worse with the printing of bile blight and temple of enlightenment. Even mono black devotion is cutting it down to a two of in many lists.

Additionally, I don't think you can run necromancer if you run rat.

MDU why would you run Far // Away over Devour Flesh?

and yeah I loathe pack rats as well

Johnny, it's cute that you linked a player who was running 4 pack rats main tho

(PS: where did you get that sig maaaaaan)

1) I hate Pack Rat
2) Bile Blight, Dsphere, SV and and DiS are everywhere. Everyone I play is running one or more.
3) Pack Rat doesn't have synergy with anything.

Well DiS and other sweepers kill almost everything in your MB but you have 7-8 discard spells for that...

NerdBoyWonder

It doesn't gain them life 1) and 2) if I splash some Blue it can be even better

Though would hitting it with Seer mean I take 6? If so then we can't run it, for now I just want to bounce ideas.

You are correct, CMC is 5.

Devour flesh seems better. You can devour your own stuff in a pinch.

@ Tyreal, I'm playing a list based on the SCGO 17th place list, that ran shred freaks and Necromancers in the side.

If i dont play pack rat i would play assassin over shread freak, as it is just more powerful.

You would take 5 mdu as 3+2 = 5.

Dont know id u saw but in rb thread I linked list on spikes that splashes blue for rapid hybridization, duskmantle seer, dmir charm and spell rupture. I liked his list. I would call it the seers - it looses even more life but gets even more card advantage plus duskmantle seer is a huge beater that doesnt die to most popular removal. Plus running necromancer with all those humqns is so sweet.

I didnt see black cutting rats, you still run seizes and duresses to protect rats, but maybe not going all in is a correct choice? I would not cut them completely as they are quite awsome vs green and white decks.

Omg so much traffic that I cant put reply as aomeone already answered everything. Have pack rat as an 1 or 2 of?

If i dont play pack rat i would play assassin over shread freak, as it is just more powerful.

You would take 5 mdu as 3+2 = 5.

Dont know id u saw but in rb thread I linked list on spikes that splashes blue for rapid hybridization, duskmantle seer, dmir charm and spell rupture. I liked his list. I would call it the seers - it looses even more life but gets even more card advantage plus duskmantle seer is a huge beater that doesnt die to most popular removal. Plus running necromancer with all those humqns is so sweet.

I didnt see black cutting rats, you still run seizes and duresses to protect rats, but maybe not going all in is a correct choice? I would not cut them completely as they are quite awsome vs green and white decks.

Splashing other
colours makes the mana way too awkward, hence why I gave up on Br. Blue brings even less than red.

TKA isn't terrible, but I like fast starts against black and control. You want to apply pressure. TKA doesn't do that well. It's obviously better if you're on the back foot as quasi removal, and it dodges drown, but I think (at least for my tastes) it is worse than RSF.

Pack Rat is rediculous.... Won me so many games......

I found it to be amazing vs Mono Black Devotion, and thats the best/most popular deck.

Not even thinking about dropping it.

Ended up losing my win-and-in to top8 to R/G monsters. Lost game 3 on a triple BTE into Caryatid draw =(.

Few Observations:

Duress was good. I think I can get behind it maindeck possibly.

Mogis was pretty lackluster , think I want more removal.

I found R/G to really need a terror in most games and I never saw one at all. Really want at least 2 Doom Blade in the sideboard.

Love the deck tho!

Duress is not maindeck material unless you have a sure and very stable meta. I can see going down to two marauder in favor of more removal.

Pack rat is obviously powerful, but you lose so much synergy / give up a lot versus bile blight and verdict decks.

I was running 2 Marauder in my list.

Disclaimer: I played 10 rounds of competitive magic this weekend, 7 of them in a row were MBD so a lot of my thoughts on the deck are going to relate to that by nature.

That said, I certainly like MDU's approach of no Marauder, and running more removal.

Duress maindeck is not as crazy as you think. Lets run through the matchups.

MBD- Very good, strip their removal, which they typically have.

U/x Devo - probably at its worst here, but I see very little of it recently.

R/G - Great again as they have removal and walkers to hit.

Control - obviously amazing.



How can you say Pack Rat has no synergy? Come on.

I see it having synergy in 3 ways.

1) running 4 Mutavaults, what card has more synergy than that and we are running 4 of them.

2) Thoughtseize - lets us untap with rat and often win right there

3) Cheap "not so powerful" creatures - In
other decks with rat like MBD, they run a ton of good powerful cards. Every card they pitch to rat is good...Demons, merchants, removal etc. In our deck, Pack Rat lets you turn your 1 and 2 drops into monsters later on, getting enormous value out of otherwise dead cards.

@Dpaine

I found it as well, because we started to run Bile Blight we doesnt have that many terrors anymore. I like having access to Bile Blight, but not at the cost of Ultimate Price - not auto 4 or 3 of. Imo 4/3/2 split of Downfall/UltimatePrice/Bile Blight would be best.

MD Duresses are nice, but dont know if needed. Realing too much on discard punished me almost in every game I realied on it - you cant prevent them from having good top of their decks, and using removal on creature they cast generates a lot of tempo (they might have a lot of good cards in hand but mana only to cast 1 per turn).

Also how do you sb vs mono black? Before BTG I sb out all thoughtseizes and lifebanes as I had 4 specters in sb for those matchup, plus Erebos and Dark Betrayals.

I adjusted my sideboarding as I went kinda. Also depending on play or draw.

I lost a lot of game 1's but still pulled it out.

-2 marauder
-3 lifebane
-2 tormented hero

+2 Duress
+2 Erebos
+3 Dark betrayal

I removed some 1 drops so I wouldnt be as weak to Drown in Sorrow, which was really easy to play around.

I saw MDU took out his Downfall but they have limited threats and prone to flood so I like having plenty of answers for their creatures.

Could be wrong sideboarding as honestly, I usually look at someones guide but I just went with my instincts since deck is so new.

Against Mono Black my All Stars were Erebos and Pack Rat.

You're deck is infinitely worse for not playing pack rat.

There, I said it.

I was at the same PTQ as DPaine this weekend - the one that got canceled due to snow after the 5th round. I brought the same deck, though -1 Swamp (so 22 total lands), +1 Ultimate Price main deck.

DPaine was 4-1 after 5 rounds, I was 3-2 (but only 2-2 in matches played)

I beat Rakdos Aggro round 1, lost to RUG Devotion round 2 (had the guy at 2 life for like 5 turns, hoping for a top-deck Mogis Marauder but he stabalized. I also didn't sequence correctly - I played Herald one turn then Lifebane the next, but if it had been the other way around I could have taken a Ruric Thar out of his hand and probably won - it was game 3.), lost to R/W Devotion round 3, beat MBD round 4, and my round 5 opponent, who was also on MBD, conceded to me because his play group wanted to beat the snow.

Game 3 against MBD was hilarious, and came down to a top-deck war. Erebos drew me 8 cards (I took myself from
20 to 4 against him, removing all his threats, including not letting him have any black devotion for Gary's trigger once) and during the top-deck war I was the first to land and protect a Pack Rat, which won the match.

Agreed on Pack Rats comments, question about Duress - what MU is that card dead in? Hitting a walker in Gr seems like a plus and when the card is truly dead you can always feed it to Pack Rats

Though swapping the Duress out for more removal works as well.

Here is what I am thinking now..

[deck]Creatures (22)
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment

Lands (23)
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Spells (12)
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price

Sideboard
3 Doom Blade
2 Devour Flesh
2 Erebos
3 Duress
4 Dark Betrayal
1 Lifebane Zombie

[/deck]

Maybe -1 Ultimate Price + 1 Mogis Marauder

4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pain Seer
4 Pack Rat
4 Herald of Torment
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
1 Duress
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp
SB: 2 Erebos, God of the Dead
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Doom Blade
SB: 3 Dark Betrayal
SB: 2 Devour Flesh
SB: 2 Whip of Erebos

I'm just maining 4 lifebane zombie. Fuck yo hand nigga.

I like the idea of the 1-of duress in the main, not sure if a removal spell is better. I'm almost never playing turn 1 duress blind, so half the time it's a 2-drop or worse, so we'll see how things go. The 2 whips in the board could easily be a devour flesh and a dark betrayel.

Saw this list 4-0 a daily yesterday:

[DECK]
Lands (24)
4x Mutavault
20x Swamp

Creatures (24)
4x Herald of Torment
3x Lifebane Zombie
2x Mogis's Marauder
4x Pack Rat
3x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Tormented Hero

Spells (12)
3x Bile Blight
4x Hero’s Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
1x Ultimate Price

Sideboard (15)
1x Bile Blight
4x Dark Betrayal
2x Devour Flesh
4x Duress
3x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Lifebane Zombie
[/DECK]

nothing to see here

Saw this list 4-0 a daily yesterday:

[DECK]
Lands (24)
4x Mutavault
20x Swamp

Creatures (24)
4x Herald of Torment
3x Lifebane Zombie
2x Mogis's Marauder
4x Pack Rat
3x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Tormented Hero

Spells (12)
3x Bile Blight
4x Hero’s Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
1x Ultimate Price

Sideboard (15)
1x Bile Blight
4x Dark Betrayal
2x Devour Flesh
4x Duress
3x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Lifebane Zombie
[/DECK]

Card for card the deck that got 4th at Super Sunday.