Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:15 am
12 taplands, I feel like you'll have trouble casting things on curve, and lose tempo as a result.
Your deck being able to play Chained is a big draw, but 8 Mountains is still too light for my comfort.You can't play chain mostly because it makes your mana-base unplayable.
I'm also telling you that the burn deck is better. Even if you have to play marginal cards like deflecting palm, the burn deck I built is good.
I actually need to update my deck. Basically, take it, cut chains for 4 cards and it gets way better since you can improve the mana base.Your deck being able to play Chained is a big draw, but 8 Mountains is still too light for my comfort.You can't play chain mostly because it makes your mana-base unplayable.
I'm also telling you that the burn deck is better. Even if you have to play marginal cards like deflecting palm, the burn deck I built is good.
It's just hard, trying to fit both. I suppose that I can cut some number of Magma Jet and Lightning Strike, but then it decreases the number of 2 mana burn spells that the Swiftspear works so well with.I think that's a mistake. This is a format that is light on removal. Rabblemaster is exactly the kind of card you want.
Some testing notes:
Winners
Mindswipe: Been everything I wanted and then some. Might move to 3.
Disdainful Stroke: So many CMC 4+ spells. So worth it.
Mantis Rider: This thing is insane. It is a must-answer threat.
Losers
Swan Song: The ability to hit Courser is not worth losing the ability to hit planeswalkers. Too often I really didn't want to give my opponent the token. I have yet to pull off the Swan Song + Searing Blood combo. Moving to Negate.
Manabase: Not enough white mana. Cutting a UR Temple for a UW. UU for Nullify has been consistent by the time I want to use it.
Middling
Jeskai Charm: The extra point of mana hurts. Have not used the lifelink mode yet but the other two have proven useful. Have pulled off the "
put on top in response to fetch" trick.
Deflecting Palm: When it is good, it is REALLY good. I have redirected some really big hits. Not so great against the control and fast aggro I have been seeing. Still worth keeping in the main deck, but not a full set.
Post a preliminary list so we can mock you for being a great card analystHave a list in the works, will hopefully be testing soon if I give myself a minute to relax
Got some notes from today's testing. I'll spare everyone the notes from the Abzan Weenie's matchup, because that deck proved itself to be a steaming pile. Either that, or it has zero way to win against 2 mana burn spells in general. Searing Blood and Monastery Swiftspear means that he can never attack while I have 2 mana open, or he risks losing 2 creatures and I spend 1 card. The Abzan Midrange guy had classes all day, and then had to go to work so I didn't get to test against that.
Anyway, here's some scribblings relating to the matchup vs RUG:
His decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaiju-
shenanigans/
Halfway during testing, he decided that he hated the Temur Charm, and replaced them with Stubborn Denial. He's also running 2 Kiora instead of just 1, since he doesn't have a Sarkhan. And there are 2 Mana Confluence somewhere in there, he really needs to update the decklist on there or something.
My decklist is posted in this thread, above.
The turn 2 Savage Knuckleblade is real, and it pretty scary. The good news is that I did actually beat it in a race, thanks to Deflecting Palm, and some lucky draws set up by Magma Jet. The amount of life lost from lands is pretty good for our burn deck.
Burning out the Elvish Mystic, if you are on the play, is extremely important. No surprises there.
Icy Blast is extremely annoying,
but at least you can convoke a Stoke the Flames in response to diminish the value.
The mana base for my list worked much better than expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.
Individual card notes:
Monastery Swiftspear is fucking awesome. Punishes other aggro strategies for attack into it with mana open, and can give a very aggressive start against decks that stumble with CIPT lands and not having the colors they need. Sylvan Caryatid still bricks it for a while, but it kind of does that to most early
drops anyway. This hasn't come up in testing yet, but being able to attack into a Courser of Kruphix with 2 mana open is pretty sweet too.
Goblin Rabblemaster, I'm sorry I even doubted you. If they don't have the removal spell, then it gets out of hand quickly. It's also worth noting that he's super easy to cast, when all you need is 1 red source and anything else. When they do remove him, that just clears the way for another high impact creature. He also trades pretty favorably with the big creatures in the format.
Mantis Rider, absolutely bonkers, as expected. Great offense, great defense. Attack for 3, and then he's there to block any pesky 1 drops that stuck around, or just chump block so you can survive for the untap and burn finish.
Magma Jet is still sweet, especially given my lack of Scry. May bump it up to 4.
Lightning Strike
almost always just went to the face, or eliminated a Kiora every now and then.
Searing Blood, awesome, run 4.
Deflecting Palm, this over-performed for sure. I'm almost 100% on going up to 3 in the main. It got me out of a bunch of tough spots that no other card would have been able to do. All you really need to do is target a 3 power creature with it to get the value out of it. Great at screwing up combat math and letting you survive 1 more turn to win the game.
Jeskai Charm is pretty fucking sweet. The Lifelink mode is way more useful than I expected, especially if you have a Swiftspear or some Goblin tokens attacking. Definitely performed for me. Didn't use the bounce effect too often, but it was useful when I needed it. 4 damage for 3 mana is pretty nice too, when you need to top deck the killing blow.
Stoke the Flames, still great, run 4. Convoke to save your goblins,
kill a Knuckleblade, kill a Courser, kill a planeswalker, etc. Great spell.
Mindswipe, underperformed. I don't think I had it actually counter anything today, and one time I had both in my opening hand and it ruined me. Probably good in the hyper-late game, but it pretty much didn't do shit for me. 100% on removing both.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, pretty sweet. Mostly used the removal mode, and forced my opponent to commit damage to him instead of my life total.
Stormbreath Dragon, 1 is fine. He's still pretty solid, and dodges a lot of the current removal in the format. Late game mana sink if you flood, strong solo finisher.
Moving forward:
Removing the 2 Mindswipe, since they didn't do dick all day. Options to fill those slots include another Deflecting Palm, more Magma Jet, or 2 [card]Turn
to Frog[/card]. My testing partners today seemed to like the idea of Turn to Frog as removal, blocking the attacking frog, or dropping a flyer to the ground to push in some flying damage. A lot of my games today involved scenarios where one player was forced into the path of racing, and cards that let you live for another turn or 2 are super solid.
Tips from my judge buddy: Don't forget to call a judge any time your opponent forgets to show you a Morph creature when it leaves the battlefield. If it goes to his hand before showing it to you, then that's grounds for a game loss. Also, you do not have to declare Prowess triggers when you cast spells, only when they become relevant, such as when damage is dealt. Expect blowouts early on in tournaments, due to people forgetting that creatures are bigger than they look. The Prowess trigger is derived information, based on you casting a spell earlier in the turn.
You may be right. It could have something to do with all the Temples you are playing, with the Scry letting you get ahead in either card quality or land drops in general. I very rarely get ahead in mana against green decks, and therefore, they can always pay the X cost, and I never fired off a Mindswipe for more than 5 total mana. I'm alsoI am surprised Mindswipe didn't work out for you. Maybe it is because I am playing a slightly slower game than you are. Confluence might help with the mana issues but I worry about all the damage we will end up taking. I will have to test it.
Agree with your judge buddy on morph but you should always announce your triggers. There will be judges that will say you missed them if you don't.
It's on this page, page 4.
what was your list? I dont think ive seen you post it unless i just missed it.
Pretty much this. At the same time, my hand is getting low by then anyway.Costs five mana.
I can't speak for Jasper or confirm how the manabase changed, but this was on the last page:What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?
The mana base for my list worked much better than expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.
2 Mountains. The 4th Deflecting Palm is just there because it is super good against decks that are trying to go for big creatures.What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?
With 3 Deflecting Palm in the MD do you need the 4th in the SB still?
I really like the aggressive approach the deck takes, will be very interested to see how the new meta shapes up.