Dies to Removal

Creatures (11)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Satyr Firedancer

Lands (23)
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph


Spells (26)
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
3 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix


Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Oracle of Bones
1 Young Pyromancer
3 Chained to the Rocks
1 Skullcrack
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil

Fixed formatting. I just read the article myself and everything made sense so I'll take his word on Satyr Firedancer. I'm pretty sure we can solve whatever perceived problems he had with the control matchup

Been screwing around with the updated R/w/b burn list which has been solid so far. Game 1 vs Azorius control is a bit anemic. Hadn't seen Brad's list before but I can see why he did Satyr main instead of chain. Stronger versus everyone else except...mono black who eats you up game 1?

I've yet to get much testing in on the Satyr for g/r, w, or u. Spark Trooper may well end up being Satyr Nyx-Smith. Oracle and toil // trouble is fun as always.

I still think Searing blood is win more in a burn deck, even if you're playing with Satyr.

[deck]4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Oracle of Bones

4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Malice

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Spark Trooper
4 Toil // Trouble
4
Satyr Firedancer[/deck]

Sorry for formatting, on phone right now so little bit limited in edit mode ;>

I like that this deck runs 7 scry lands (hell I even saw those played in modern 2 color burn list) to prevent from flooding out.

Satyr nx smith seems good vs uw, dunno which is better him or firedrinker. Unanswered satyr hits for 2 -> 5 -> 8 which is quite good for 3 drop!

Ugh so many testing in 3 decks: rw burn, mono b agro, rb skies.

Btw should we somehow seperate threads so we dont spam all decks in same topic? Also is burn going to be posted n r/w or in dedicated burn thread?

Why black eats you allive? They have numerous removal spells which are almost dead (you play satyr and yp only when you have mana to get value from it), only problem is desecration demon, but it can be managed with yp tokens like we did in the past. Keep skullcrack for merchant and proceed. Yp to grind them out.

Also sb gives you assemble the legion, did you forget how it can blow black out?

Also what is mortars in sb for? Baron?

I think the best sideboard tech against U/w is to bring in 4 Spirit of the Labyrinth. That deck is already playing 4 boros charm main, so as long as you can keep one alive then turns Sphinx's rev in to a very expensive stream of life, and a 3/1 body for 2 mana is pretty sweet against U/w in itself

Satyr Firedancer is unplayable when two of the three best decks in the format are mono black and Uw.

Unplayable in the main, that is.

I also cannot fathom any of these R/x builds having a better than 45% matchup vs Gr. Having piloted Gr myself I just don't see it.

i also dislike having 4 of searing blood in the MD of all these burn lists...

@Pedros: The scry is vital. About black, YP tokens can be sweeped now making YP not that great. You can two for one yourself with firedancer if they kill him in response to burn. Playing against RDW has a similar problem. Yeah, assemble is still good versus black but Brad's deck is playing 7 questionable cards MD (YP/Firedancer) and 4 useless cards (Searing Blood) game 1 vs black. 1-2 assembles is unlikely to dig you out of that hole. I'm saying this with no experience testing his version so maybe it would surprise me. How good a deck builder is he?

I tried the one drops for a couple months and on average, all of them combined an average of 3 damage per game. That's terrible. The dragon deck uses them as removal magnets which makes it much better. Supposedly, Nyx Smith is good vs UW which I could see.

We should probably make a seperate thread. The thread below is sort of out of date and this could use a proper primer
now since it's had some GP success. I could do it but it would probably take a few days and I'm not sure I could keep up with it.

@Poppa: Boros charm doesn't protect spirit from celestial flare or detention sphere. It's still not a bad choice but it's a very narrow sideboard option for just uw. Esper or black devotion will insta kill it. Also, UW can dodge it with Jace and end of turn azorius charm.

@Val: The question is between chained to the rocks and Firedancer and in that case, vs UW, Firedancer is objectively better game 1 than chain in so much as it's at least a 1/1. Also, it kills fiendslayers out of the board while chain is going to get d-sphered. It really depends if there's a way to play around black to get a boros charm or skullcrack to kill something before you lose the dancer in which case, you've kept card parity and netted some damage. Since it can't realistically kill DD though, it strikes me as a bad idea.

@Purp: Me either. What deck has creatures
with 2 toughness that the burn deck is trying to race in damage? It rebuys phoenix, woo? And even sideboard, why is sideboard space being devoted to decks that burn pretty much stomps on?

Unplayable in the main, that is.

I also cannot fathom any of these R/x builds having a better than 45% matchup vs Gr. Having piloted Gr myself I just don't see it.

I have numerous videos of Rx beating Gr, some of these are top200 players which are pretty darn good...

EDIT: What a shock Rw moved toward more "burn" to combat the new meta game....

The meta with burn is going to get interesting. It's been under the radar but if people want to hate us out, I'm pretty sure they can and then it's back to a creature based deck again. Should be a nice moving target. I'm definitely holding onto YP for now.

Gr has always been beatable. Courser of Kruphix is the card that worries me. If firedancer has a purpose, it's versus Gr. Resolve two and they have to mortars or scoop.

When I refer to Gr it's with the BNG upgrades in mind, and I simply don't see that matchup being favorable. With all their 4+ toughness dudes Rw is really not where I want to be in that match. I'd say the match will be 40% at best post BNG.

I read through Brad's Article and he never really justifies Searing Blood or Satyr Firedancer for the meta so the cynic in me believe he is trying to ship cards, I do however agree on Bones being a very strong option against Bx and Control (esp. with T // T) since I said the same thing a few pages back - however Chandra is one of cards which helps breaks the UW MU.

Here is my take on the Angry Phoenix Archetype (created by Mezzel).

[deck=MDU's Angry Phoenix, Hidden Dragon]Lands 23
9 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 6
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Removals 6
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars

Thighs 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Burns 23
4 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
1 Assemble the
Legion
1 Mutavault
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Rakdos Cackler[/deck]

Beside the really corny name, the main idea in beating UW with burn is too have continuous pressure - so cards like Mutavault, Chandra, Pyromaster and Stormbreath Dragon which are just a nightmare for UW to deal with (esp. if your running Glare of Heresy) is the way to go. My proof is my own word and the online MOCS11 and Championship where the best scoring Burn list ran a combination of the three.

@Valdarith: the MU is certainly in Gx favor, but its not by a huge margin mainly because Burn and Fliers which don't really care about the ground force - again this is based on my own experiences, my meta may differ from yours.

[deck]
Lands 25
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 16
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Enchantments 5
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Legion's Initiative

Planeswalkers 2
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sorceries 2
2 Mizzium Mortars

Instants 10
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Boros Charm
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Last Breath
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Skullcrack
[/deck]

I've been playing this the past week after watching MDU's and Lazerburn's videos. So far I've 3-0'd five 8-mans and 1-1'd the rest so thank you both for convincing me to try it out

I'm planning to go to next week's SCG tournament so unfortunately I won't have that much
time to decide on whether to go with this deck or MDU's burn-heavy version.

If your on MODO go request a Online Clan invite so you can help us farm boosters Click here

I'll recommend running with what your accustomed, if you keep switching builds it will harm your mind-set (I'm currently experiencing this myself ).

Your list with the sweet [card]Legion's Initiative[/card] tech should work wonders for the current format (take that */3 guys), I'm not sure if Assemble is the best answer to Bx Devotion anymore though... (but its just our Plan B so it doesn't matter).

I'
ll be focusing on my new Angry Phoenix, Hidden Dragon brew while I wait for Malice to get released online.

If your on MODO go request a Online Clan invite so you can help us farm boosters Click here

Will do so!

I'll recommend running with what your accustomed, if you keep switching builds it will harm your mind-set (I'm currently experiencing this myself ).

That is true and with only a week to go it's likely not a good idea
to spend too much time testing a deck that I might not use in the end.

Bile Blight is my biggest concern vs mono-Black (and one of the reasons I decided to switch from a Pyro-red deck) though it's also likely that those decks will have it in place of Pharika's Cure so there's at least one positive from that.

Went 4 - 0 and then lost first match against black devotion in top 8.

Satyr firedancer is good against everything but red and black, no surprise there. Even then, he wasn't quite as awful as I thought if you let them top out and make use of useless skullcracks and charms. Been playing cockatrice games with him mainboarded over chains and it wasn't actually a bad decision. You still sideboard it out in a hurry against removal.

Dropped an oracle and 2 mountains for 3 mutavaults.

Creatures: 11

3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer

Lands: 22

8 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Silence
2 Mutavault
1 Temple of Malice

Spells: 27


3 Warleader's Helix
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Blood
4 Skullcrack


SB: 2 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 4 Toil // Trouble
SB: 4 Firedrinker Satyr
SB: 2 Chandra, Pyromaster
SB: 3 Chained to the Rocks


I made top 8 tonight in FNM. Control matchup struggled but everything else seemed decent. After g1 the control match up isn't too terrible and makes me feel better. Satyr Firedancer was realllly good. Maybe the sidedeck needs a little work. I wasn't very sure on it before going in.

Great results guys (take that Rw haters)

@Elricity: I agree on adding lands, you were running 10 4cc so the land will help...

@Crims0n: You won't beat UW control with that list its near impossible, heck your Bx Devotion MU looks like a struggle with Satyr Firedancer and Searing Blood MD.

Actually could you write a small tournament report? I'm mainly speaking from a theoretical PoV so I could be wrong but I doubt it (no BnG on MODO).

I'll recommend running with what your accustomed, if you keep switching builds it will harm your mind-set (I'm currently experiencing this myself ).

I agree! I've spent so much time thinking about BNG and testing I've started to think the current builds are somewhat lack lustre! Back to 'Almost' for me I think

I will definitely write one up when I wake up in the morning. Pretty late here! And yes, Bx devotion is a struggle too. I really like my creature line up, but I'm gonna try siding the searing bloods for chained to the rocks for right now. I was contemplating it a while before tonight, it is probably the better choice. granted its equally worse against UW but it at least improves the black by quite a bit. I look forward to brewing some more, I think the potential is absolutely there.

Assuming you have 7 slots in your SB you can pick between 4x Boros Reckoner and 3x Toil // Trouble or 4x Toil // Trouble and 3x Boros Reckoner (you have no space for Anger) which combination would you pick?

The Boros Reckoner drastically improve your Aggressive MU (which means then can also come in for more MUs) the 4x Toil // Trouble drastically improves your Control MU and slightly... kinda... improves your Bx MU.

I'm personally leaning towards T // T because Control is many times harder then aggro, its just that Boros Reckoner can come in for so many more MUs.

@Elricity: I agree on adding lands, you were running 10 4cc so the land will help...

Yeah. 23 is helping. 14 scry cards kinda makes it less of an issue. My current landbase is definitely going to screw me if someone runs peak eruption though and I can't boros charm through it to protect chains. I didn't keep amazing notes but I'll see what I can remember in the morning. However, as a teaser...killing Brimaz with a single shock...glorious.

If anyone is going to be on around around 6 PM Central time (GMT -6), I would like to grind some game 1s against mono black using Firedancer. Firedancer > chains everywhere else so I want to see
how much % I'm giving up vs black for the rest of the field.

Assuming you have 7 slots in your SB you can pick between 4x Boros Reckoner and 3x Toil // Trouble or 4x Toil // Trouble and 3x Boros Reckoner (you have no space for Anger) which combination would you pick?

The Boros Reckoner drastically improve your Aggressive MU (which means then can also come in for more MUs) the 4x Toil // Trouble drastically improves your Control MU and slightly... kinda... improves your Bx MU.

I'm personally leaning towards T // T because Control is many times harder then aggro, its just that Boros Reckoner can come in for so many more MUs.

If you're seeing more Control &B I'd go for 4 T &T and 3 Reckoner. I'd reverse this is I was living in an alternate universe where B wasn't everywhere

Satyr Firedancer is certainly more attractive in decks with Skullcrack and Boros Charm in the main. You still can't convince me that four main is correct. He's atrocious vs mono black and UW control.

Val, the choice is between whether you maindeck Satyr Firedancer or you maindeck Chain to the rocks. I think we can agree that not maindecking a creature hoser is a non starter right now. If you are saying to maindeck neither, can you put up a decklist?

Vs Black: You have the possibility of turning your boros charms and skullcrack into removal. You lose a viable chance of dealing with desecration demon. Game 1, you absolutely need to make every dancer kill one creature or you're -1 card. I fully agree it's bad here but I don't think it's quite the dead card you think it is.

Vs UW: You have a 1/1 creature instead of a card that says "discard this card".

Vs Red: See black plus you lose the ability to keep phoenix from coming back. You do shunt burn away from your face so there's that.

Vs Everything else (Gr, WW, U Dev): Chain reads "exile one creature not named BBV or Stormbreath".
Firedancer reads "stomp all over your opponent".

So, the question really becomes how much do we lose vs black and red opposed to what we gain vs the rest of the field by running Firedancer over Chain.

Brad Nelson has been piloting RWb burn at SCG Nashville today. Was 4-0 until he lost 0-2 in the fifth round to what deck? G/R Monsters. Brad sided in Satyr Firedancer which was pretty good with Warleader's Helix, allowing him to down a Ruric Thar after it blocked Chandra's Phoenix, which made the game close, but in the end G/R Monsters pulled it off.

Assuming you have 7 slots in your SB you can pick between 4x Boros Reckoner and 3x Toil // Trouble or 4x Toil // Trouble and 3x Boros Reckoner (you have no space for Anger) which combination would you pick?

The Boros Reckoner drastically improve your Aggressive MU (which means then can also come in for more MUs) the 4x Toil // Trouble drastically improves your Control MU and slightly... kinda... improves your Bx MU.

I'm personally leaning towards T // T because Control is many times harder then aggro, its just that Boros Reckoner can come in for so many more MUs.

Same. Reckoner is very nice but aggro is easier to handle.

Brad Nelson is 4-1 @ SCG with RW Burn with 4 Satyr Firedancer and 4 Searing Blood MD and 2 Oracle of Bones and 3 T/T in the SB.

List is here

Hmm, guess Searing Blood is actually working for Brad. Really would have seen that ending badly.

Ok, I kept very sparse notes but here was my playtest last night with this build. I was able to get 2 of the oracles, 2 temple of malice and the playset of Satyr. Got the 3rd Oracle with winnings.
Match 1 vs Thomas: Black devotion

I remember very little here other that I ended both games at 22 health and steadily chipping at his life total. He never gained life off Gary. 2-0
nSB: -4 shock, -1 YP, -2 Chandra. +3 spark trooper, +4 toil // trouble.

Match 2 vs Joey: White Weenie

Game 1, i mull to 6 and keep a one land hand with shock, 2 magma jets, and a scry land on the draw. I miss my 2nd land drop. Although I eventually made it to 4 lands, it was too late.

Game 2, I nuke his creatures and then I resolve Chandra and start picking off 1 toughness guys. I play Satyr. He plays Brimaz. Warleader's Helix to remove and recur a phoenix from earlier. I start using Chandra to card draw and get a second Satyr. He plays another Brimaz which dies to shock + double Satyr trigger. Pitch remaining burn next turn for finish.

Game 3, he keeps a 1 land hand and never draws another. 2-1
SB: -4 skullcrack, -2 Oracle of bones, -4 boros charm, -1 phoenix. +4 Satyr Firedancer, +4 Boros reckoner, +3 Spark trooper

Match 3 vs Eddie: Jund Midrange. Creatures were Carytid, Desecration Demon, Reaper of the Wilds, and Stormbreath.

He knows I'm playing burn so he tries to race me
constantly shocking himself to accelerate out dragons. I keep having to rework the math of burn in my hand to see if I can kill him. 3rd shock land puts him into burn range as he hits me with 2 dragons and I dump burn at his face end of his turn and then on mine. Game 2 he tries beating me down with a desecration demon and I respond by tossing spark troops at him when he keeps tapping out. 2-0
SB: -4 shock, -2 Chandra, -1 skullcrack, +3 Spark Trooper, +4 toil trouble

Match 4 vs don't remember: Junk reanimator. We intentional drew and then played out just for amusement. Game 1 he gets stuck on 4 lands so he can't cast Obzedat's aid and just dies. Game 2, he resolves an Obzedat at 8 life followed up by 2 BBV's and I didn't see skullcracks. Game 3, my hand is like 3 boros charms and a couple other burn so I obliterated him.
SB: -4 chain (blanked on his entire creature package), -3 shock, +4 toil, +3 Spark trooper.

Top 8 match vs Matt: black devotion

Game 1, we trade a few hits until I take over
the game. Game 2, he goes into heavy thoughtsieze/duress mode and plucks any creature burn I might have. It made my t/t's objectively bad. I'm not able burn him out before he finishes me with Nightveil. Game 3, I get stuck on 3 lands with a heavy hand and can't do anything effective and lose.
SB: -4 shock, -1 YP, -2 Chandra. +3 spark trooper, +4 toil // trouble.

Deck as it is now:

[deck]
3 Oracle of Bones
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Satyr Firedancer (testing)

4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

2 Chandra, Pyromaster

2 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault (working on 3rd)
7 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Chained to the rocks
4 Toil // trouble
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Spark Trooper[/deck]

Your ok with losing against Bx and Ux without chains and UW without Dragons?

Brad Nelson has been piloting RWb burn at SCG Nashville today. Was 4-0 until he lost 0-2 in the fifth round to what deck? G/R Monsters. Brad sided in Satyr Firedancer which was pretty good with Warleader's Helix, allowing him to down a Ruric Thar after it blocked Chandra's Phoenix, which made the game close, but in the end G/R Monsters pulled it off.

He did come first place in the end, that said I would of been shocked if he manage to clean out Gr with his MD - we all agree that the Gr is slightly unfavorable but it would be even worst with his list.

Yeah the fact that he has no Chained in his 60 really doesn't help that matchup.

He did come first place in the end, that said I would of been shocked if he manage to clean out Gr with his MD - we all agree that the Gr is slightly unfavorable but it would be even worst with his list.

If this was in regards to Brad Nelson's list, he actually has lost at least 2 rounds and is actually down in the ~60's, not anywhere near the top tables for sure. I believe they just put his and BBD's list up on SCG in order to put a list out there.

I agree that this list, especially the sideboard, is kind of weird but Im no pro player so my opinion doesn't much matter xD

He did come first place in the end, that said I would of been shocked if he manage to clean out Gr with his MD - we all agree that the Gr is slightly unfavorable but it would be even worst with his list.

If this was in regards to Brad Nelson's list, he actually has lost at least 2 rounds and is actually down in the ~60's, not anywhere near the top tables for sure. I believe they just put his and BBD's list up on SCG in order to put a list out there.

I agree that this list, especially the sideboard, is kind of weird but Im no pro player so my opinion doesn't much matter xD

Good, I didn't think it was a good list - but man this line above the list was misleading: 1st Place at StarCityGames.com Standard
Open on 2/8/2014 from this link

[quote="LP, of the Fires » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:36 pm"]Creatures (11)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Satyr Firedancer

Lands (23)
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph


Spells (26)
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
3 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix


Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Oracle of Bones
1 Young Pyromancer
3 Chained to the Rocks
1 Skullcrack
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil

Fixed formatting. I just read the article myself and everything made sense so I'll take his word on Satyr Firedancer. I'm pretty sure we can solve whatever perceived problems he had with the control matchup [/quote:
3606op44]

So Bard Narson stole your list and is playing it card for card.

No that was the list Brad posted in the SCG newsletter.

Pay to attention. I'm an idiot.

Thank too Elricity, I now rate Satyr Firedancer the best new red card in BnG - I like it even more then Temple of Malice now (in burn at least)

The main issue I was having was that I kept comparing it too bears and other 1cc or 2cc creature where he just stacks up horribly - what I should have done was compare Satyr Firedancer to Chains and Mortar, in which case Satyr Firedancer is insane (Though I still want to run some Chains MD, maybe the old school 2x Chains and 4x SFD combo or 3/3).

I don't like all four Satyrs main, but I'm fairly conservative in my deckbuilding so take that for what it's worth. If any deck could play Satyr Firedancer, it's this one thanks to all the high-impact burn spells that point to the face anyway.