[Primer] PyroRed

[LaZerBurn]

I've just had a horrible morning of losing tix on MTGO, largely I have to say, to myself

Here's the high point - a Mono U players thoughts on the Rod after it had just won me the game

All the best for the MOCS later MDU!

[LaZerBurn]

@ Pedros - love the deck title

[Pedros]

@ Pedros - love the deck title

Would love comments on the deck no the title thou. I still am preparing to GP here and there, dunno about the meta in Vienna.

[Keftenk]

You've never been screwed with a hand full of Mutavaults? I understand the math of it happening, but it happens and when it happens its almost always a mull or a terrible start which we don't want either.

[windstrider]

Still editing. Hit the damned submit button by mistake.

I went 3-2 last night for a fairly disappointing evening. I had a bad start to the night when my daughter did something that upset me greatly. It goes to show how important attitude can be going into an event. I bought the Purphoros playmat to make me feel better, and it seemed to help.

Lost the first round to a Gr Stompy that just trampled over everything I put down. Got him to 6 life game one, then he bloodrushed a Rampager and used Predator's Rapport to gain 13 life. At the end, I had 5 life staring down a Nemesis of Mortals with two Firedrinkers. Ouch. He was doing something right since he ended the night 4-1.

Won the second round against Mono Red devotion. Two Reckoners sealed the first game for him. I went into control mode and burned him out. I saw lots of Stormbreaths
on the second and third games. My favorite play was when he swung into my Reckoner and Phoenix with a Stormbreath, a Zealot, and a BTE when I was at 10 and he was at 8. Blocked the Zealot with the Reckoner to kill it and the BTE. He forgot the first strike happens before other combat damage. I killed him on the return swing aided by a Lightning Strike to the face.

Third round was a series of rather easy wins vs a mono red Dragons list using Scourge of Valkas with Stormbreaths, Dragon Egg, and Hatchling. This guy likes to play lots of all-in kinds of decks built around specific creature interactions. I beat him down game one, and then controlled him the second game. He was amazed at the Chained to the Rocks taking away his dragons.

I lost the third round to Esper. I had to mull to 3 the first game because I saw an opening draw of two 'vaults for lands and then couldn't get another hand with any lands.
Finally settled on one land, two Phoenixes and nearly won that game regardless when he durdled. It sucks because I easily won the second game with a great curve from Satyr into Zealot into Phoenix. I lost the third by hitting land pockets and burn but not enough creatures to effectively race his Obzedat or Elspeth tokens. An overloaded Mortars would have saved me, but it was not to be. He admitted that I could have won that round if I hadn't had to mull to 3 that first game.

And I won the fifth round vs. a mono-black homebrew list. Not much to say except that he was surprised I attacked with my Satyr after he enchanted it with Sinister Possession. I told him that I didn't care about the life loss if I was killing him more quickly.

Not a great night, but the deck is gaining respect as I heard a lot of people complaining how Chained blanks their best stuff for only one mana. I never felt outmatched, even when I was behind on life.

[Pedros]

Yeah sometimes it happens, however it is extremely unlikely, and upsite is much bigger than downsite.

I also tend to mulligan agresively, I dont like keeping 1 landers on a play (only keeping if I have 2+ 1drops) and all removal hand preboard, so I dont mind it.

[notap123]

I went to a smaller FNM to try out the R/W variant. Suffice to say I beat myself a couple time primarily to not recurring the phoenix 3 times in one game and my not checking my sideboard before playing in another (still busting 3 years of rust off ).

I will say that while playing Pyrewild Shaman, though clunky, made for some great lines of play. I was getting land flooded for a few turns but had a phoenix on board and a shock in hand. Swinging for 5 every other turn made a huge difference.

I played against a GR ramp that played hammer. The board stalled for a few turns and it made me think that there should be some number of Wear/Tear. Now that I'm thinking about it I also played a BG deck that played some lifelink enchants.

[windstrider]

Congratulations to everyone who did well last night.

Edit: Regarding three Chandra's in the deck.

I added the third Chandra back in to ensure seeing her more often, and I was glad I did since I saw her in almost every round that I played. She just does so many things right for the deck in so many different matchups, especially if a Phoenix is lurking nearby.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Pedros - love the deck title

Would love comments on the deck no the title thou. I still am preparing to GP here and there, dunno about the meta in Vienna.

I've played Pyro in all it's forms since rotation and I regard it as a Tier One deck, especially in the hands of a skilled player, as it has posted consistently good results for a variety of players in all it's incarnations.

I personally like your current build of the deck and in all honesty I think that you
are at the stage now of going with your gut, for want of a better expression. MDU, Zem and yourself (I know there are others too, just can't remember everyone right now) have posted good results running different builds in the same meta on MTGO so I don't think there is necessarily a 'right' build, outside of the core shell, even for a particular meta game. Similarly all of the cards you mention - Titan's Strength, Last Breath, AoT, Pyrewild have been used successfully (MDU who has posted consistently good results while testing all of them recently) and there are strong arguments for all of them. The issue is that there simply isn't enough room for them all

Generally speaking I like a lot of land in my decks (I posted on the Big Boros thread advocating 25 for 4 Dragons) but I do think that 23 is fine for 2 Dragons in this deck, for the same reasons Soebek outlined - you don't really want/need to cast it on curve so its generally not a problem. The same is true for the Reckoner with 19 Red sources. On paper it's not optimal but as you are not aiming to drop him on T3 it's doable (MDU and Zem posted about this recently too).

I always try to get in at least 2 copies of a card though I'm happy to split them between the deck and the S/B like you are doing with Stormbreath. I'd favour 2 Dragons over the Hammer/Dragon split partly for this reason and also because although I love the Hammer I don't think you need it.

I like 3 Chandra in this build, again for the same reasons that Soebek outlined. The AntiMODO variant ran 2 and I was happy with 2 in that build as the BTE/FFS combo was largely about finishing the game quickly in a field made up primarily of MBD and Esper (it was when I played it anyway) ; Chandra shines in the long game, you quite simply didn't get there very often so 2 was fine.

I personally prefer Titan's Strength to Pyrewild but both cards have been used very successfully - you and MDU like
Pyrewild, F.I.A. is a proponent of TS - so I don't think that there is a 'right' answer here either.

Personally I don't currently 'like' Fanatic very much; initially I loved him but he simply hasn't done much of late in my match ups, hence my current lack of enthusiasm. I'd run the second Rod (I prefer this to Last Breath against Master) and the second Titan's Strength (or in your case Pyrewild) in his place.

Hopefully you will find this more helpful than my delight at your deck name Best of luck in all your GP's

[Pedros]

@LaZerBurn

I am little bit unexperience agressive mage - I started playing magic 2 years ago, just when innistrad came out. I started with mono U illusions (without delver back then), then played delver, spirit deler, anti delver grixis control which I developed on my own (finished 9th on WMCQ), Esper Non-Delver Delver (the one with restos, blade splicers, unburial). After rotation moved to Junk Ramp - the one Cassial from MTGS developed, Bant Midrange (Rev and Prime Speaker Zegana), Junk reanimator and 5color OmniThragfire, then just before rotation Junk Aristocrats and Junk Tokens. As you could see I mostly played control, midrange and tempo decks, no true agressive decks. And mostly I didnt play any red spells/creatures.

That's why I sometimes post questions that seems illogical - I am just inexperienced in red matters ;P

I will then try to test 3 Chandra, however it will be hard to squeeze so many 1 offs then -
shaman, flames and dragon is 3 slots.

[windstrider]

Put the Dragon in the sideboard. It's not needed maindeck.

[Aodh]

Regarding Chandra, 2-3 are both fine configurations. Drawing multiples isn't terrible and, in some cases, it can be especially good. Plus, you want to see her every game.

Regarding dragons and land, Dos Rakis ran on 24 lands to support three TMHK, so 23 lands can probably support two in the 75.

That being said, the dragons seem counterintuitive in this deck (at least in the mainboard); we want a lot of mana not so we can play big spells, but rather so we can play multiple small ones to proc. several synergies in a single turn.

Nice FNM reports, guys; lots of good places. I couldn't go to FNM last night (and I'd probably pilot AIR anyway), but it's good to see that this deck is still solid in the field.

[Jack]

[quote="notap123 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:20 am"not checking my sideboard before playing in another (still busting 3 years of rust off ).
[/quote]
Don't feel bad. Sometimes, game 1 will end and I'll feel sad when I realize that I can't bring in Blood Moon (that card would seriously wreck shit against this standard, especially all of the Nykthos decks).

[hamfactorial]

Dat Blood Moon feel

[LaZerBurn]

@ Pedros - I don't think your questions are at all illogical, quite the contrary; I think they are well thought out and intelligent, seriously

FYI my main deck is currently exactly the same as the one you posted - 1 Shock - 1 Pyrewild + 1 Chandra + 1 Titan's Strength

[Pedros]

@ Pedros - I don't think your questions are at all illogical, quite the contrary; I think they are well thought out and intelligent, seriously

FYI my main deck is currently exactly the same as the one you posted - 1 Shock - 1 Pyrewild + 1 Chandra + 1 Titan's Strength

Only 2 shocks? How do you feel about it, as it is solid removal vs agro decks and good chandra recursion?

[FullofGravy]

Can't find a Rod of Ruin, so I'll have to see if the singles dealer brought full sets.
They had 310 people for today's PTQ, so a decent chance of a pretty big turnout tomorrow. Don't know whether there's any coverage though.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Pedros - I don't think your questions are at all illogical, quite the contrary; I think they are well thought out and intelligent, seriously

FYI my main deck is currently exactly the same as the one you posted - 1 Shock - 1 Pyrewild + 1 Chandra + 1 Titan's Strength

Only 2 shocks? How do you feel about it, as it is solid removal vs agro decks and good chandra recursion?

I'm not 100% it's
the right call but haven't missed it as yet - I've got the 3rd Chandra so on paper I have the same amount of recursion and I really like the flexibility TS gives me - I can trade and keep my guy alive so it's removal or it's drawing out their removal and acting as a Boros Charm or it's a straight up scry Bolt. I'm finding the Dragon surprisingly good which is pleasing me no end

@Gravy - where are you playing at?

[FullofGravy]

LaZer- Playing a £2k in London, UK.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, y'all are awesome

I went ahead and put in the two rods. The three colors are such a small meta thing, that I'm much more likely to hit mono-u. I still really wanna see the look on a mono-u player's face when I drop one though...

And the first place gives me a lot of confidence going into the IQ tomorrow, though I proly should have gotten second, but it's whatever, lol

[dejection]

Played PyroBoros at FNM, running 23 land, 4 mutavaults, 3 chandra, 2 chained, 3 shocks, 1 flames, 4 pyromancers, 4 ash zealot + the usual stuff.
Sideboard: 2 chained, 3 mortars, 2 flames, 2 boros charm, 3 skullcrack, 2 act of treason, 1 hammer

Round 1: Br aggro (2-1)
My opponent was playing that list that won some tournament or something, with some titan's strength. Won the die roll, and young pyromancer + shock shenanigans beat his start of tormented hero in to spike jester into madcap skills. A phoenix comes down and I beat him over the next few turns, with the 4 removal spells in my hand killing everything he topdecked.

Sideboard: -3 Cackler, -4 Satyr, +2 Chained, +3 Mortars, +2 Flames
Game 2 I mulligan a no lander and keep a 6 of 2x temple, mutavault, mountain, phoenix, chandra. He has 1 drop into spike jester into madcap skills, and the 4 cards I see through my draw steps and scry are all lands and I
scoop without showing him chandra.

Game 3 he curves out again, but this time I have shock into jet into ash zealot scryland into chandra, gg. Flipped her ulti for the fun of it because I drew a second.

Round 2: Uw devotion (2-1)
Never saw what the white splash was for, and he opened guildgate into omenspeaker so I had put him on UW control. Then he played claustrophobia into master of waves, but i had the chained and a pair of phoenixes closed the game out.

Sideboard: I saw no judges familiar or cloudfin raptors, and that omenspeaker + claustrophobia made me think he didn't have them. So i go -3 shock, -1 flames -2 jet, +2 chained, +3 mortars, +1 skullcrack. Not the most optimal, but jet wasnt doing much for me anyway and a 1 of skullcrack to kill master seems sweet.
Game two I have lead 1-drop into double 1-drop but he has a frostburn wierd. I attack and trade a jet for it, then he has detention sphere to 2-4-1 me, he plays thassa into master of waves, and I draw no answer, and just have an ash
zealot to hold his tokens off. He ends up detention sphereing it and killing me.

Game 3 He misses his third land drop for a turn, and i have a mortars for his frostburn. He gives me a raised eyebrow when i play it as if to say "you sided that in?". But i don't have pressure, I just have a young pyromancer and a few burn spells and chained in hand. and he plays a thassa to dig and play more guys, i burn them and have some pyromancer tokens, however he has another wierd to shut me down. He went master, i chain it, he dspheres, i chain again, he plays a second master and I chain a third time. We get into a large board stall with me hitting with the phoenix 2. Topdecked mortars on 5, then temple the next turn, then I killed his team and he was shocked.

Round 3: Bg (2-0)
He opened double deathrite shaman, and I had cackler into zealot, and he just chumped the zealot. he then had a doom blade for ash, I had young pyro into shock for the other deathrite, and he had a demon on turn 4. But
pyromancer tokens, phoenix, and mutavault beat the demon up easily.

Sideboard: -3 shock, -1 flames, -3 jet, +2 chained, +2 act of treason, +3 skullcrack.
Didn't see any green aggro things like lotleth troll and dreg manger, so I supsected gray merchant. shock and jet dont kill much.
Game 2 he opens deathrite, i have my 1-of jet to kill it and i start beating down. he has hero's downfall for one of my creatures. My hand is 2 acts and a skullcrack, and he taps out for a demon. I draw young pyromancer for the turn, consider acting but decide to just play pyromancer. He plays a second demon, I act one and he sacs the other, i hit him for 6 with my guys + mutavault. He then plays whip, I sac to demon, topdeck lightning strike for lethal. he complains about missing his 5th land for gary, but honestly skullcrack would have made sure i got it.

Round 4: UW control (2-0)
He has maindeck planar cleansing. I don't remember what happened, but i boarded -3 shock, -2 chained, -1flames, +2 charm, +3 skullcrack,
+1 hammer. but i remember thinking that he didnt have the full 4 verdicts so i didnt play around it as much. Turns out he did, but hammer and chandra won me the game.

Later on I tried out rod of ruin against mono U devotion, and it was quite fun. It did beat master of waves, but I do think last breath is better. We already have chained, so rod killing multiple masters isnt that hot. sure, chained is weak to cyclonic rift, but the matchup feels so tempo oriented that cyclonic rift beats rod as well.
If i were to play standard again, i would play the same maindeck probably, though that flames could be anything. I would rework the sideboard, the flames and the acts could change. I have never tested reckoner on 19 sources, ill tweak with it and see what happens. I also would not side rod of ruin at the moment.

[Tyrael]

Hi guys, long time no see.

Quick question, I just got my first Chandra and the second one will be coming soon. Do you think I could run the mono red version with 'just' 2 Chandra's and 2 Mutavaults (instead of the 3 chandra 4 mutavault I keep seeing)? Really can't afford anything else atm...

[RaidaTheBlade]

I've been running with 2 chandra 1 mutavault for a while now, and been doing just fine/really good.
I am trying for a second muta, but meh...

But yeah, it runs fine. And not having 4 mutas actually allows for Reckoners in the sideboard, which I personally love.

[Tyrael]

Good thing I ordered the Reckoners before they spiked up again then

Well I had to play my small devo red list while I was waiting for someone that wanted to trade Chandra and I'm kinda tired of how inconsistent its performance is, so I'm eager to take this archetype for a spin, Thanks Raida!

[Helios]

An overdue update:
I will be defending my thesis in 3 weeks time. As such, MDU will be taking over the primer for the next 3 weeks, keeping the sample decks up-to-date and fleshing out the video archive post. I'll still be around, but won't be posting as much.

That being said, THANK YOU ALL! The bevy of reports and testing demonstrates this group's commitment to excellence. It makes me proud to see how far we've all come since last year, and in some cases even sooner. A special shoutout to the newcomers who've written such detailed reports - keep it up!

Re: Dragon- I was unable to make it to FNM this week to test, so I'm glad that ya'll had success with it. However, I wouldn't play two in the main with 23 lands. I'd suggest 1 main and 1 Dragon + 1 Mountain (or 4th Muta) in the SB, since it seems like the deck is shaping up to have some free SB slots.

Re: Chandra- I'm a fan of the 3rd Chandra, and she's
coming back in once I get back to playing. Think about her this way: if you have one on the board, and she's sticking around, then you are probably winning anyway. And if she doesn't, chaining Chandras back-to-back can be backbreaking against most decks.

Tyreal: Don't worry about missing one or two cards out of the main 60- use the ones you have, and win your way into them

[magicdownunder]

An overdue update:
I will be defending my thesis in 3 weeks time. As such, MDU will be taking over the primer for the next 3 weeks, keeping the sample decks up-to-date and fleshing out the video archive post. I'll still be around, but won't be posting as much.

That being said, THANK YOU ALL! The bevy of reports and testing demonstrates this group's commitment to excellence. It makes me proud to see how far we've all come since last year, and in some cases even sooner. A special shoutout to the newcomers who've written such detailed reports - keep it up!

Re: Dragon- I was unable to make it to FNM this week to test, so I'm glad that ya'll had success with it. However, I wouldn't play two in the main with 23 lands. I'd suggest 1 main and 1 Dragon + 1
Mountain (or 4th Muta) in the SB, since it seems like the deck is shaping up to have some free SB slots.

Re: Chandra- I'm a fan of the 3rd Chandra, and she's coming back in once I get back to playing. Think about her this way: if you have one on the board, and she's sticking around, then you are probably winning anyway. And if she doesn't, chaining Chandras back-to-back can be backbreaking against most decks.

Tyreal: Don't worry about missing one or two cards out of the main 60- use the ones you have, and win your way into them

On that note, if you have any suggestion for the next update let me know

I'm going to try and find all the up-to-date list made by DtR members which did well in a large event (+ anything which Z post) and stamped them with a date.

[zemanjaski]

May as well do my own personal update. Due to a combination of work and an ongoing chest infection ill be relatively light on for content for a bit. Hopefully some MODO contributions though. Sort of obligated to work on CFB stuff right now. Middle of December through nye ill be away with Pip; ill have Internet and a laptop so ill be doing some work / playing but I'm not sure how much time ill have. Hoping to be completely focused in the new year leading into GP Melbourne.

Big thanks to MDU for stepping up.

[Jack]

Helios: what's your SB? I'm having a hard time seeing where these "free slots" might exist. Then again, I'm still running a pair of Peak Eruption SB, as they come in against a large part of my meta.

Actually, I'd like to start a discussion on this card. It's great against the decks I commonly face, as I play at a shop that hosts draft and constructed simultaneously every Friday, so the turnout for either one is usually less than 20. Many of the people there love to play midrange, and there are a number of control players as well. Since Theros has only been available for a bit under 2 months, many people don't have enough cards in paper to easily switch between decks, and so many are still playing the same Dega/RB mid lists that were a bit more prevalent in the first few weeks of Standard. This means that Peak Eruption is still a relevant "hate card" for my meta and it's unstable mana
bases. However, I am now questioning whether or not it is my best choice, even if it is good. Act of Treason or Traitorous Instinct are still effective choices against these decks, as well as some of the other midrange decks that Dega's Anger of the Gods.

[magicdownunder]

Magic Online Championship Season 11-Rematch Update

Running:

[deck]PyroWhite - MDU Tweaked[/deck]

G1: MonoBlue Devotion (0-2) LOSS
G2: Rg Devotion (2-1) WIN
G3: BG Rock (2-1) WIN <- almost lost due to misplay which costed me R1
G4: Br
Aggro (2-1) WIN
G5: MonoBlue Devotion (1-2) LOSS
G6: MonoBlue Devotion (2-0) WIN

Only 6 rounds, with my horrible standings so I won't make top8 (not even top16) thus I'll just get 12 Booster + 1 Foil Alt Art Scrubland.

I got fairly unlucky against MonoU with some rather bad draws, I think I could have won G5 R3 but I took a gamble which didn't pay.

4-2 - FINAL Rank 18th

[zemanjaski]

Well done nonetheless. Thank you again for your tireless work and contributions. Ended up being a very profitable season for you?

[magicdownunder]

Well done nonetheless. Thank you again for your tireless work and contributions. Ended up being a very profitable season for you?

Just under 2000, not sure how next season will go with no more DEs.

On that note I wonder how long I should sit on these alt art lands before I sell them, I mean if trash (mocs) alt art commons sell for $30 these 4 lands should fetch even more.

EDIT: Hah..hahaha... wow... missed top16 and 24 booster by two ranks (I'm 18th), I blame all the people I beat for dropping after being defeated .

[zemanjaski]

I like that I converted one elite player to the red Mage cause this season. Slowly, slowly.

[montu]

I will be defending my thesis in 3 weeks time.

Best of luck! Smash it!!

[LaZerBurn]

Well done MDU, thanks again for the vids and thanks for taking over the Primer

[Tyrael]

Quick question: would you guys recommend a build with ashley or emily for a meta with a mix of control (60%), aggro (20%) and 'big' devotion (20%) decks ? Gonna be mono red atm, foundrys are expensive

[RaidaTheBlade]

Tyrael, you're in a similar boat to me. I think FIA's earlier statement to me applies to you as well, and makes a good bit of sense.

Since you don't have enough Mutavault, you will need a way to amass board presence, so Emmy is preferred over Ashley.

So I'd say BTE for now, much as I do love Ashley

[magicdownunder]

Quick question: would you guys recommend a build with ashley or emily for a meta with a mix of control (60%), aggro (20%) and 'big' devotion (20%) decks ? Gonna be mono red atm, foundrys are expensive

Ash is better in a control dominated meta, btw your REALLY hurting our chances by not getting vaults in this type of meta game.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Yeah, didn't the the percentages edit till just now. With that much control, the haste is really great.

[Tyrael]

Quick question: would you guys recommend a build with ashley or emily for a meta with a mix of control (60%), aggro (20%) and 'big' devotion (20%) decks ? Gonna be mono red atm, foundrys are expensive

Ash is better in a control dominated meta, btw your REALLY hurting our chances by not getting vaults in this type of meta game.

Running 2 atm, will get more later

[magicdownunder]

Some advice, from a lowly inf. grinder.

If your under budget constants, its usually better to pick a cheaper deck (like AiR, AiR is a freaken good underrated deck btw) then it is to half purchase a deck.

That said FNM level events should be ok...