Dies to Removal

I've been brewing a RW list for paper. I'm not sure where my local meta currently stands but the most talented players tend to favor midrange and control strategies. With that in mind,

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (22)
4 Shock
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Godless Shrine
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
3 Toil / Trouble
2 Spark Trooper
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

SIDEBOARD STRATEGY

vs Mono Black Devotion: -4 Shock, -3 Chained to the Rocks, +4 Skullcrack, +2 Spark Trooper, +1 Assemble the Legion. Forget about their creatures and just burn them out of the sky.

vs Mono
Blue Devotion: -1 Boros Charm, -3 Warleader's Helix, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +3 Mizzium Mortars. I don't think Boros Charm really offers us much besides four to the dome, and I'd rather have more ways to answer Frostburn Weird and Nightveil Specter, so bringing in all three Mizzium Mortars seems like a strong strategy. Obviously we want to sandbag our Chained to the Rocks for Master of Waves.

vs GW: -4 Shock, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +3 Mizzium Mortars. Pretty self-explanatory.

vs Esper: -4 Shock, -3 Chained to the Rocks, -2 Warleader's Helix, +4 Skullcrack, +3 Toil / Trouble, +2 Spark Trooper. Also self-explanatory.

vs R/x aggro: -4 Firedrinker Satyr, -4 Rakdos Cackler, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +3 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Warleader's Helix, +2 Spark Trooper, +1 Assemble the Legion. Play control.

Thoughts?

No reckoners sideboard if you're not running mutavaults seems like a mistake.

If you're already going to run toil//trouble, you should consider bringing it into your midrange matchups as well, at least on the play. The 6 to the face tends to start things off nicely.

How about Ash Zealot? The first strike allows for cute combat tricks along with your burn

No Reckoners in the side is just a concession to my local meta. When last I played, there were Junk, Jund, and other black-based midrange monstrosities all over the field. The only matchups I'd really want Reckoner in are GW and mono red, and GW is not popular while my red matchup is already so favorable that I don't think Reckoner is necessary.

How about Ash Zealot? The first strike allows for cute combat tricks along with your burn

What am I taking out for Ash Zealot? It's nice to name cards, but there needs to be a more specific reason for including the card in the list over other options.

So you're trying to combine Walter White with Boros Burn? Seems cute. Why are you bringing in Spark Trooper against control? Post-wrath dome for six is pretty good (essentially two spears on a stick), but seems questionable to me.

Ash Zealot is better than Warleader's Helix in most match ups, as it is able to play an offensive and defensive roll in the early game depending on the match up. Warleader's Helix serves a very specific purpose (creating a large tempo change in the mid-late game). Ash Zealot seems like a stronger card in general, and thus is more suitable for your mainboard.

That's fair and worth consideration. Dropping Helix could allow me to go to 21 lands and make room for four Ash Zealot, but that could be a little greedy.

As for Spark Trooper, he comes in for Helix vs control because he does two more damage than Helix. He does make Hero's Downfall more live but if they're having to use removal on my Spark Trooper I'm probably winning anyway.

Keep chained vs. mono-black. You'll get them close to dead, they'll start raising you "like an Idiot", then stabilize with gray merchant being just out of burn range and you'll go on tilt for them being "lucky".

The reason Chained is both fine and good is because it's SO mana-efficient and it's never really gonna be a dead card. That and you could just randomly lose to pack rat.

Ok played bunch of matches today. Will first say what I play against (MODO)

GW Agro
Mono B Devotion * 2
Mono U Devotion * 3
RG Big Agro
Jund Big Agro
Rwu burn (splashed for steam augury and epix experiment)
AIR Red * 2
Boros Devotion * 3
White Weenie
GW Hexproof
Gr Devotion * 2
Esper Control (one standard, one wierd with Nightveil specter, Desecration Demon, Grey Merchant, Obzedat, Blood baron, Ashiok, Fiendslayer paladin) * 2

Playtested 3 Lists:
Went 5-4:

Wins vs:

Mono Red
Esper (wierd version)
UWR Burn
Boros Devotion
Gr Devotion

Lost vs:

Boros Devotion
Big Jund Agro
Mono U Devotion
Mono B Devotion (However mulled to 5 and to 6 to find hand with lands AND spells)

Next for testing was Pyro Boros:
Win vs GW Agro

Lost vs:

Mono Black Devotion
Mono Blue Devotion
RG Big Agro

then playtested Rwu burn:

(Deck same as the one from mocs, but with 1 more land and Steam Augury and 2 epic experiment in place of cacklers, satyr and ash zealot)

Won vs:

mono red agro
boros devotion
mono blue

lost vs:

White weenie - two games mulled to 5and didnt draw 2nd land (1 lander was scry land)
GW Hexproof - (turn 1 gladeclower scount, into ethereal armor and Forced Adaptation)
Gr Devotion - missclicked and didnt cast magma jet before garruk activation (he put ruric thar on board)
Boros Devotion (epic experiment for 7 didnt find me 7 burn)
Esper Control

@Pedros — Just curious, but why do you have 24 lands and two dragons main in the PyroWhite build? As an experiment?

He is testing list from the Big Boros Thread, but decided to post them here.

@Valdarith, I like the idea please tell me how testing goes (I'm trying to fuse Big Boros with PyroWhite).

Ah, ok. I like the idea of a single Dragon on 23 lands with Walter White. That seems like a good place to be. I want that third Chandra, though.

What Windstrider said. Unless something crazy innovative happens, that's what I'll be playing in two weeks' time.

I'm not sure if I want to go with this online or not. I'd have to give it a few days and think about its position in relation to the meta. I feel pretty confident in it from my local meta though. I won't be able to play in paper events until December so any testing I do on that front will be pick up games.

What Windstrider said. Unless something crazy innovative happens, that's what I'll be playing in two weeks' time.

I also agree.

Also to add, if any of you PyroBoros guys are having trouble with the Gx match up. Tajic is the real-deal, heh.

Will decide after GP and SCG Open tomorrow what to take to Wienna. Hope meta doesnt shift so much, and we all can work out to react to changes as fast as possible

What Windstrider said. Unless something crazy innovative happens, that's what I'll be playing in two weeks' time.

I also agree.

Also to add, if any of you PyroBoros guys are having trouble with the Gx match up. Tajic is the real-deal, heh.

Oh, I so want to put my shiny foil Tajic in the sideboard. I just need to figure out what to cut out for him.

I cut my Boros Charms for him.

After being on a holiday trip and not having played any magic for three weeks, I took PyroRed to a 3-1 finish at FNM. Last round I managed to beat the guy who has been dominating the shop with GR, so feeling pretty good.

I feel a strong pull toward playing the black variant again, so that's what I will probably continue to work on so I can roll with it next week.

I cut my Boros Charms for him.

I have a lot of Control players near me, so I like the Charms too much to take them out.

What other decks could Tajic be good against? I feel like his indestructibility has to be useful elsewhere.

Any creature deck basically.

It's good against control too, that's why I felt like it could replace the charms as well. The only thing that it gets hit by is Dsphere and Devour Flesh from those decks. Against Esper and UW, it's great when you have 2 vaults behind with a Tajic out. Swing in for 11 lawls. Rarely happens, but what's more common is dropping an Ash Zealot, SBD, or Phoenix with the Tajic and vault activation.

In other news, I finally lost with the tweaked list. Winning 19 straight, lost to GW Enchantments of all things, ugh (Nothing I can do vs 3 Fiendslayer Paladins lol). It doesn't mean that much since not all of them are T1 competitive deck wins, but I'm enjoying this version a lot!

Any creature deck basically.

Ok. That is what I was thinking, but my card evaluation skills aren't the greatest. <----- understatement

It's good against control too, that's why I felt like it could replace the charms as well. The only thing that it gets hit by is Dsphere and Devour Flesh from those decks. Against Esper and UW, it's great when you have 2 vaults behind with a Tajic out. Swing in for 11 lawls. Rarely happens, but what's more common is dropping an Ash Zealot, SBD, or Phoenix with the Tajic and vault activation.

Before this season, Control was typically my worst matchup as a player. I
understand that match a lot better, so I'm enjoying the many ways we have to beat them. I was thinking he could be good here since he dodges so much direct removal.

In other news, I finally lost with the tweaked list. Winning 19 straight, lost to GW Enchantments of all things, ugh (Nothing I can do vs 3 Fiendslayer Paladins lol). It doesn't mean that much since not all of them are T1 competitive deck wins, but I'm enjoying this version a lot!

Congrats on the win streak.

I think that bolded section is an overlooked part of playing Magic. If you aren't playing a deck that you enjoy, then you're not playing to your fullest. I think too many people play what they think is a winning deck, but they're not playing something good for them.

I think that bolded section is an overlooked part of playing Magic. If you aren't playing a deck that you enjoy, then you're not playing to your fullest. I think too many people play what they think is a winning deck, but they're not playing something good for them.

Definitely!

I'm testing your deck now Valdarith, opening impressions (I LOVE IT )

Here is the version I'm testing:

[deck=MDU's PyroBurn]Creatures (15)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (19)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

Others (4)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks

Lands (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
3 Toil / Trouble
3 Frostburn Weird
4 Anger of the Gods[/deck]

I feel a strong pull toward playing the black variant again, so that's what I will probably continue to work on so I can roll with it next week.

I posted a list a page back that has been succesful for me if you want some food for discussion.

I'm testing your deck now Valdarith, opening impressions (I LOVE IT )

Here is the version I'm testing:

[deck=MDU's PyroBurn]Creatures (15)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (19)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

Others (4)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks

Lands (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
3 Toil / Trouble
3 Frostburn Weird
4 Anger of the Gods[/
deck]

I would take some more white sources, as sometimes 8 sources for 8 spells post board is not so much.

WB temple maybe?

I posted a list a page back that has been succesful for me if you want some food for discussion.

Thanks. Looks like we both are fans of Tymaret. My old list is somewhere in this thread, it was using Spike Jesters over Ashley and swamps over Mutavaults. The changes I was thinking would make my list look a lot like yours, so that is probably a good direction to go then.

[quote="magicdownunder » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:18 pm"]I'm testing your deck now Valdarith, opening impressions (I LOVE IT )

Here is the version I'm testing:

[deck=MDU's PyroBurn]Creatures (15)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (19)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

Others (4)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks

Lands (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
10 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Skullcrack
3 Toil / Trouble
3 Frostburn Weird
4 Anger of the Gods[/deck][/quote:
2rnh9rt4]

I am absolutely in love with this list. I would love to hear how testing goes for you, since I might try this out myself.

I am absolutely in love with this list. I would love to hear how testing goes for you, since I might try this out myself.

I took down two 8-Mans and a few 2-Mans the list seems to be working great, I love how the list has the ability to grind out wins when/if the first 6 cards arn't enough (Vaults and Chandra for the win).

here is my current list:

[deck=MDU's PyroBurn]Creatures (15)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (19)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack

Others (4)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Chained to the Rocks

Lands (22)
2 Boros
Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavault
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Toil / Trouble
1 Skullcrack
1 Warleader's Helix[/deck]

Sers. thinking about swapping Frostburn Weird and Firedrinker Satyr from MD to SB since I only use the Drinker for the Bx and Control MUs.

Any vids of this deck MDU?

Any vids of this deck MDU?

Soon, I'm uploading 2 now - keep in mind I'm not sure how too play burn in standard yet, so I do waste a few life-points and spells. (Lucky for me, the deck kinda just wins on its own)

I 4-0'd at FNM with PyroRed. I wallowed in the tears from my MBC opponents.

I was torn between playing Chandra or more burn in the deck. I am interested to see how she works out for you.

I'd really like to see a fourth Young Peezy in the list, probably at the expense of one Skullcrack.

Valdarith, do you think Reckoner could be played in your board instead of Anger or is the mana base just too volatile to support him?

Thanks. Looks like we both are fans of Tymaret. My old list is somewhere in this thread, it was using Spike Jesters over Ashley and swamps over Mutavaults. The changes I was thinking would make my list look a lot like yours, so that is probably a good direction to go then.

Jesters are brilliant, but the current manabase is making me nervous. Glad we agree in the assessment of PyroBlack so far. It´s in a promising shape so far

Otoh do I have this idéa about Underworld Cerberus as a curve topper and rakdos guys instead of the various decks topping with the dragon. The deck would go pressure from 1 to 3 land, then the ca goes online at 4 (
Chandra) and finishes at 5 with a huge threat that must be answered with an exile effect. I´m in reality check mode on this, but there´s still a opaque shape of a deck in there.

I'm not playing Anger in my sideboard. I think Reckoner is better to have but honestly I wouldn't play it either. We want it against GW midrange and mono red. I feel like we can just burn the former out and we already have a favorable matchup against the latter.

MDU and others in here: I'm sorry to be a fanboy who just copies all of your lists to test, but I'm still new at Magic and red magey-ness, so I'm trying to learn from the best (the FoS'ers on this forum ), and... wow. I love that burn list. I've been testing on Cockatrice all day, and it seems to munch almost everything. Esper / other control just seem so favourable! Also, the rage it incites warms my cockles. "OMG fucking noob burn list, Jesus. Fag. Noob. No skill noob burn player."

I'll definitely be testing this burn-heavy list during the week and possibly taking it to FNM to try it out. I have a PTQ in Belfast in two weeks so I'm trying to get a deck in order that I can just focus on.

Ok warning! Big result down there:

First list I played today:

[deck]Creatures:
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:

4 Shock
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
8 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Skullcrack
2 Toil/Trouble
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

This is something I tested after talking to MDU in the morning. First played boros reckoners, didnt have a problems with casting it as I flood most of the time (or keep hands with 4 lands couse I dont like to ship hands like that especially with scrylands.

OK, now results. Plated 8 mans and 2 mans.

Red based (R and boros) Devotion: 2-3
Black Devotion: 6-0
Blue Devotion: 3-4
RB
Agro: 1-1
AIR Red: 2-0
White Weenie: 2-0
Naya Hexproof: 1-0
Gx (G and Gruul) Devotion: 2-0
UWR Control: 1-0
PyroDecks (boros and red): 1-1
GW Agro: 1-0
Esper Control: 1-0
BGx Creature Control/Midrange (Junk and BG) 2-0

Ok to sumarize I went 25:9, to sum to 74% win percentage (Which Is better than my avarage which is 70%).

Really liked the deck, Would be awsome if we could work on this more as it is my main concender to Vienna.