Dies to Removal

Does Hushwing stop Seige Rhino trigger?

Yes, It stops any trigger that fires when a creature enters the battlefield.

Hmmm...... Also good vs Hornet Queen and Hydra..

It won't stop Genesis Hydra. That is a "on cast" trigger not an ETB.

was in the process of editing that post ha. I might try him out over ashcoud tonight.

I have been considering putting a pair in the sideboard. I loved it last season vs Gary and Master. I am not sure what ETB effects we are worried about other than those two though and Hornet Queen is not something I overly fear since we should be winning by then anyway.

Good point.

Would anyone board in Deflecting Palm against rabble red for Stoke? I am contemplating going up to 3, I don't see how we lose to green with that card.

I would most certainly want Palm vs Rabble Red. Not just for Stoke, either, you can just let the Rabblemaster through and Deflect that as well or a creature they pumped with Titan's Strength.

Edit - Favorite move from playtesting against GR: They play Xenagod and then Stormbreath, double's Stormbreath's power then has it deflected back. He never pumped anything bigger than a Courser again after that.

Try Kevin Jones list with 4x Gryff over Rabblemaster

The more that I think about it, the more I think I should be shaving Searing Blood and maining a few Disdainful Stroke. I think I am going to go back to 2 Mindswipe as well. I would only play 2 Blaze or 2 Syncopate max. I don't see why I would include more just because it does both. I also balanced the mana better since I no longer need double blue for Nullify.

[deck]Raka Counterburn[/deck]

Maindeck Hushwing Gryff seems pretty weak when against anything not Junk or Green Devotion. (And isn't most of green devotion etb sideboarded?) I was toying around with the idea, but when compared alongside Mantis Rider, it just seemed bad.

Gryff also can't end the game on its own unlike every other creature we play main deck. If we start seeing more Doomwake Giant, Nylea's Disciple, or Purphoros we might want to look into putting it in our sideboards.

Well I think 1-2 sideboard (~3 if you're really trying to metagame) is great...I'm just very skeptical of it main.

What effects are really worth the Gryff? I could see it last season when Master and Merchant were big....

Siege Rhino is the big one. Doomwake Giant, Eidolon of Blossoms, Nylea's Disciple, Wingmate Roc, Hornet Queen, and Purphoros are honorable mentions. I don't think it merits maindeck inclusion but might find a few spots in the side if more of these cards see play.

Don't forget about Sidisi and every creature with raid except for bloodsoaked champion

the reason i like hushwing gryff is because its a creature that they dont want to kill and if they take 4 points of damage off of it waiting for mantis rider or seeker then we have just stoked them and if they take 6 or 8 we are getting lethal with critical mass of burn. Who wants to kill it? I know I wouldnt.

the boros burn deck that made top 16 in the tcgp 5k at texas had 4 hushwinggryph sideboard

the flash works great with this decks strategy and allows you to try one or two Mindswipe again

While I like the flash, I'm not such a big fan of the drop in power level. I'm really not high on rabbles though. It's not like he's bad, cause he's not, but I feel we can do better.

I wouldn't play him vs esper.

While I like the flash, I'm not such a big fan of the drop in power level. I'm really not high on rabbles though. It's not like he's bad, cause he's not, but I feel we can do better.

I think Brimaz is where we want to be in that spot. He's been excellent for me.

My original concept for this deck was more Boros agro running Seeker of the Way, Monastery Swiftspear and Goblin Rabblemaster to leverage cards like [card]Titan's Strength[/card] or Gods Willing to push through damage and lifegain. While the deck was quick, it was terrible in top deck mode and had zero sources of card advantage nor enough reach if burn was used to make way for attackers. Moving to more of a Jeskai shell has certainly helped in that regard since SCGNJ against this decidedly midrange creature meta. I do *really* miss Chained to the Rocks though from a 10 mountain mana base in Boros. I played a full playset main deck and they did serious work.

In my area there seems to be a glut of Abzan decks and also B/W midrange removal.dec for god knows what reason. Stormbreath has gotten the nod and been absolutely stellar so far in those matchups. I've had mixed experiences with Ashcloud, but it certainly feels odd casting him on turn 4 and passing with no attacks (or just suiciding a goblin token) which happens quite a bit. Walking Ashcloud into Magma Spray, Abzan Charm, or Banishing Light is also pretty brutal. Giving my opponent a 'free' tapped out turn can be problematic as I am unable to even bluff a reasonable defense with Seeker/Mantis. The other side to that coin is that if I'm able to untap and put dragon into play I often swing for lethal or close enough that I can burn them out next turn. (but I might be winning those games regardless?)

I continue to flop back and forth between playing the deck almost solely at Instant speed with smaller threats in a counter/burn style the later turns or tapping out to continue to apply pressure through threats. The deck currently just doesn't have a good rhythm on turns 4-6. Not including a 4-drop (Chandra wasn't cutting it for me against so many green decks), just puts you in a weird position on those turns as well since I don't have much to do aside from maybe an end-step lightning strike or stoke which feels very inadequate against Polukranos or Siege Rhino. Charm can be solid here though to set them back a turn if you have pressure on the board to capitalize.

With the removal / burn suite being so limited (compared to last season at least), it needs to match up with what you're trying to achieve with your creature base. I think we can agree there is not enough burn to get it done with just Instant speed burn/counters? To my surprise, I actually had quite a bit of success testing with main deck Gods Willing to really punish people with Seeker/Rabble but the fact that I can't use it to protect Stormbreath or Sarkhan (often not a creature when killed) is a serious downer. Ride Down out of the sideboard has been decent as well if you're playing with a non-flyer package games 2/3.

The sideboard card I'm currently having some success with that hasn't been mentioned is Reprisal. It's great at dealing with our problematic cards like Polukranos, Siege Rhino, Master of the Feast and Arbor Colossus. This is the only answer I have found that works well playing at Instant speed. I'd love to know if anyone else has tested with it in the sidebaord.

My testing this week will lean more on a longer game plan, including the necessary card draw, permission and 5-drops to get it done in those turns. It's possible that re-jiggering the mana base to be more U/W and including Brimaz is worthwhile if you plan on going the 5-drops route, but I have not tried. Treasure Cruise seems like such a huge downgrade from Dig Through Time in general but I don't think you can support Brimaz, Dig, and Stoke. Stoke feels pretty clunky in general without Rabbles.

Sorry the essay but just getting my thoughts out to the group. Any feedback is appreciated.

While I like the flash, I'm not such a big fan of the drop in power level. I'm really not high on rabbles though. It's not like he's bad, cause he's not, but I feel we can do better.

I think Brimaz is where we want to be in that spot. He's been excellent for me.

Brimaz seems like a harder-to-cast Rabblemaster with all the same problems

Rabblemaster's problem for me is that it can't get around random 2/x (Courser, random 1 drop creatures, Fleecemane) and randomly dies to aggro hate like Bile Blight, Strike, Magma Spray, ect. Brimaz gets around all of that.

More I think of it, Simba's our Young Pyromancer. He's a whatever threat, but his true value is in protecting us so that we can assemble a plan through scrying/burning at our leisure. He shouldn't be hard on the mana-base. You can skew towards having more red/white early since the only blue you need asap is turn 3 for mantis. Seems simple enough to build.

I posted a list with Brimaz yesterday. The mana is fine.

test Brimaz then

I don't think anyone would be sad to have Bromazzo in their decks, but we need other people to test for us so we don't have to

Brimaz does dodge a lot of common removal which is nice. Rabble dies to everything.


Legendary though so can only really run 3 probably.


Wonder how to adjust the manabase though.

I'm thinking of something like this:

[Deck]
Creatures (12)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Mantis Rider
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Ashcloud Phoenix

Spells (24)
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
1 Suspension Field
4 Jeskai Charm
1 Arc Lightning
2 Banishing Light
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Lands (24)
4 Shivan Reef
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Epiphany
3 Mystic Monastery
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Plains
[/deck]

Reposting since everyone keeps questioning whether or not the mana can work.

This is what I've been playing with:

[deck]

Creatures:
4x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Mantis Rider
4x Seeker of the Way

Instants:
2x Dig Through Time
4x Jeskai Charm
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
2x Steam Augury
4x Stoke the Flames

Plainswalkers:
2x Jace, the Living Guildpact

Enchantments:
2x Banishing Light

Land:
4x Battlefield Forge
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
2x Mystic Monastery
2x Plains
4x Shivan Reef
3x Temple of Enlightenment
3x Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:
3x Arc Lightning
2x Banishing Light
1x Deicide
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Magma Spray
2x Negate
[/deck]

I've played around with both Rabble and Brimaz versions and so far I've preferred Brimaz, but I could see running either until the meta shapes up. Jace has been a nice 4 drop but I still need to play more games with it. The ultimate in theory should be back breaking, but I haven't been able to tick him up that high because of how useful the bounce is. As far as the mana base goes, I'm no expert but it seems fluid to me. Any advice on the mana would be appreciated.

Here is the list I am going to test this week. I am still pretty bullish on Rabblemaster so I only have room for a singleton Brimaz, but he should definitely provide value when drawn.

[deck]
Land (24)
4x Battlefield Forge
3x Flooded Strand
2x Island
3x Mountain
4x Mystic Monastery
2x Plains
1x Shivan Reef
4x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of Triumph

Creature (15)
1x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Mantis Rider
4x Seeker of the Way
2x Stormbreath Dragon

Enchantment (2)
2x Banishing Light

Instant (19)
2x Dig Through Time
1x Disdainful Stroke
4x Jeskai Charm
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
4x Stoke the Flames

Sideboard
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Narset, Enlightened Master
2x Reprisal
4x Satyr Firedancer
3x Searing Blood
[/deck]

The Firedancer/Searing plan worked well for me in Boros last season so I'll be running it through the gauntlet. I'd prefer to keep my Seekers & Riders in for agro so Anger feels too symmetric. Arc Lightning doesn't excite me much but may win out over Searing Blood in the end if there aren't enough /2 toughness creatures to warrant 7 two-damage burn spells post board.

4 Brimaz? He's pretty bad in mutliples considering hes legendary

I went with 4 because I want one in my opener and the first one played usually draws out removal. I have no problem dialing it down to 3 if it proves to be an issue though.

2-2 tonight, beating an aggro deck and bw control (pheonix was great here), lost to junk (phoenix was bad here) and mirror.

Deflecting Palm is the shit. Deflecting Palm someone elses Deflecting Palm is definitely the shit.

Patience is a virtue with this deck, holding a disdainful stroke takes discipline. Siege rhino into sorin is very hard to deal with

One thing keeping me off this deck is mirror match, its just a toss up that isn't fun haha.

edit: play banishing light/suspension field, duh.

edit 2: play brimaz.

This is what I've been playing with:

~~deck~~

I've played around with both Rabble and Brimaz versions and so far I've preferred Brimaz, but I could see running either until the meta shapes up. Jace has been a nice 4 drop but I still need to play more games with it. The ultimate in theory should be back breaking, but I haven't been able to tick him up that high because of how useful the bounce is. As far as the mana base goes, I'm no expert but it seems fluid to me. Any advice on the mana would be appreciated.

How much have you been testing this list? When I was trying Jace (I think he is awesome), I couldn't reliably get UU on turn 4 while simultaneously running Brimaz & Stoke. Like it happened over 50%, but it wasn't as consistent as it should be. I think you need to choose between Brimaz or Jace...I don't think the mana base can support both. Well I guess technically it could with the full 4 tri lands & maybe some mana confluence, but I think it's important to keep the number of scrylands high with this deck.

On the topic of 4 Brimaz: From my testing, 4 Brimaz is perfectly fine. First off, he draws removal very quickly, so these scenarios I'm about to go through are very uncommon anyway. I believe if you're swinging freely with Brimaz, you're winning anyway, so you don't need another. If he's purely on blocking duty, Rabblemaster isn't better because they force each other to attack. And this deck rarely gets into board stalls (where the legend rule is most relevant) because we're usually burning them to death or have some sort of flier that will end the game one way or another. (aka, this deck doesn't get into board stalls)

Went through a bunch of smaller competitive REL events that happened the same weekend.
The only thing different about any of the Jeskai burn/tempo lists was this one.
[deck]Creatures (12)

2 Generator Servant
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (6)

2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace, the Living Guildpact
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Lands (25)

2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Flooded Strand
2 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Triumph
Spells (17)

2 Banishing Light
1 Dig Through Time
2 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Arc Lightning
Sideboard

1 Banishing Light
1 Suspension Field
1 Dig Through Time
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Magma Spray
2 Negate
2 Anger of the Gods
2 End Hostilities
2 Harness by Force[/deck]
from http://tinyurl.com/md7ke77

2-2 tonight, beating an aggro deck and bw control (pheonix was great here), lost to junk (phoenix was bad here) and mirror.

Deflecting Palm is the shit. Deflecting Palm someone elses Deflecting Palm is definitely the shit.

I was thinking about that play this morning, Purp. That basically won me the game but I think we did it wrong.

Here's how it went down:
I Swing with Mantis Rider
Purp casts Deflecting Palm choosing the damage dealt by Mantis Rider
I cast Deflecting Palm choosing the damage dealt by Deflecting Palm

In this instance, you took six but you should only take three right? The damage from Mantis Rider is still prevented.

I've been lurking this thread from page 1, and I just wanted to chime in that Brimaz seems good, but I don't think you'd want to run Brimaz and Jace or Brimaz and Monastery Swiftspear.

Also re: the list Jamie posted... weird. Generator Servant seems pretty bad when there's only 6 other creatures in the whole deck you want to cast with it. I wonder at running 2 Chandra and only 1 Sarkhan. Seems a lot more tap-go than the Jeskai tempo decks of the past week. Seems slow to me but I guess it did ok.