Dies to Removal

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:00 pm**

This is what I've been playing with:

~~deck~~

I've played around with both Rabble and Brimaz versions and so far I've preferred Brimaz, but I could see running either until the meta shapes up. Jace has been a nice 4 drop but I still need to play more games with it. The ultimate in theory should be back breaking, but I haven't been able to tick him up that high because of how useful the bounce is. As far as the mana base goes, I'm no expert but it seems fluid to me. Any advice on the mana would be appreciated.
How much have you been testing this list? When I was trying Jace (I think he is awesome), I couldn't reliably get UU on turn 4 while simultaneously running Brimaz & Stoke. Like it happened over 50%, but it wasn't as consistent as it should be. I think you need to choose between Brimaz or Jace...I don't think the mana base can support both. Well I guess technically it could with the full 4 tri lands & maybe some mana confluence, but I think it's important to keep the number of scrylands high with this deck.

I haven't had issues casting Brimaz or Jace with my setup, but I have had a couple instances where I was short a red for Stoke. I don't want to overload on tapped lands so I'll probably just cut Jace and up the red source count.

*edit - Ended up with a list very close to what Valdrith has, so I'm gunna give that list a go. Cut the Steam Augury's for Chandra, and replaced Jace with Sarkhan.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:54 am**

Does anyone think that it might be worth it to add 2 Mana Confluence to the deck in order to support both Searing Blood and Brimaz in the main deck? The mana base would look like this:

4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Triumph

This would grant me 20 Red, 18 White, and 14 Blue sources.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:44 am**

After watching bbd an cvm playing with pain lands in their vs videos, damage from lands is a big part of the game and running 10 could kill you pretty quick so you'd be forced into a 4 of seeker just to balance the damage from your own lands but hes pretty good anyways so it could work.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:10 am**

8 painlands are already pushing it. Just build your manabase better and don't be so greedy with your curve.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:45 am**

Do you have a better mana base that can support Searing Blood and Brimaz?

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:51 am**

That's the "don't be greedy with your curve" part.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:03 am**

Played the deck tonight at Wednesday Night Magic and lost in the finals to Azban Delve- mulling g2 and g3 leading to not getting 3 colors till turn 6 =(

Only times the games were shaky was when I didnt have a 3rd color. Other than that, most games werent close.

I think I def need to be running 2-3 Mystic Monastarys or possibly the full set of painlands.

Played and beat Esper Control, G/r devotion, and G/U monsters.

Drew Seeker once the whole night but he was awesome when I did get it.

Never got Steam Augery but Dig was the tits. I only ran 1 Steam so makes sense.

Chandra seemed shitty constantly in a world of midrange. Last season we boarded her in for aggro and control and its even more midrange than ever before so I think thats where she belongs.

I wanted removal against green constantly, Pillar and Reprisal are certainly options alongside Disdainful Stroke--which was awesome.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:17 am**

Also, this is pissing me the fuck off.

Everyone who got their ass burn out by Boros Burn last season is picking up the "Jeskai Tempo" deck and saying its so different than burn.

Its the same goddamn deck!!!!!

12 creatures...it was YP$, Phoenix, and Mutavault. Now its Mantis Rider, Seeker and Rabble.These guys supported by burn. Same Recipe as Boros Burn.

Then a bunch of the burn is back and/or similar like Jeskai 4 damage. Chained is basicallly unplayable in 3 color so Banishing Light is worse.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:20 am**

Feel the exact same way. It may have blue in it, but it's the same fucking deck.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:40 am**

B-b-b-b-but it's Jeskai!

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:39 am**

Chandra seemed shitty constantly in a world of midrange. Last season we boarded her in for aggro and control and its even more midrange than ever before so I think thats where she belongs.

I wanted removal against green constantly, Pillar and Reprisal are certainly options alongside Disdainful Stroke--which was awesome.

I'm actually running 1 Pillar, 1 Reprisal, 3 Disdainful Stroke, and 3 Suspension Field in my sideboard. It has been treating me extremely well. Also Chandra has been perfectly fine for me, especially after I board those cards I mention because I can typically keep their board cleared besides 1 Courser or 1 threat, and Chandra lets me get through them.

BlakLanner, why are you running Searing Blood? I don't think it's worth compromising the mana base for. Like it's great if you turn 2 or 3 it on a mana dork, but pretty meh at other stages in the game...and it isn't like a crazy blowout either.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:14 am**

I face a lot of aggro and morph creatures. It is entirely possible that I want Magma Jet in those slots but that has not been my favorite card as of late.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:30 pm**

@Whole -- Chandra is a hell of a lot better with those cards and running super controley. I still am not a huge fan as I think i would rather have a Dragon/Sarkhan with that plan.

Magma Jet has been more essential to me than ever before since the mana is so rough you really need jet to find your colors.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:16 pm**

Zems Boros Burn deck from his article

[deck]
Lands
4 x Battlefield Forge
4 x Temple of Triumph
1 x Wind-Scarred Crag
11 x Mountain
2 x Plains
Creatures
4 x Goblin Rabblemaster
4 x Monastery Swiftspear
4 x Seeker of the Way
Noncreature Spells
3 x Arc Lightning
4 x Chained to the Rocks
2 x Chandra, Pyromaster
1 x Deflecting Palm
4 x Lightning Strike
4 x Magma Jet
4 x Searing Blood
4 x Stoke the Flames

Sideboard
1 x Arc Lightning
2 x Banishing Light
1 x Chandra, Pyromaster
2 x Erase
4 x Firedrinker Satyr
1 x Ride Down
4 x Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

After all my mana probems , I am strongly considering just 2 colors.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:16 pm**

Magma Jet has been more essential to me than ever before since the mana is so rough you really need jet to find your colors.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:36 pm**

I tried a slightly more aggressive version last night:

[deck]
Lands (23)
1 Mystic Monastary
2 Mana Confluence
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Epiphany
3 Shivan Reef
3 Battlefield Forge
2 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Mountain

Creatures (14)
4 monastery swiftspear
4 mantis rider
4 seeker of the way
2 quickling

Spells (23)
1 gods willing
2 ride down
4 lightning strike
4 jeskai charm
4 stoke the flame
2 treasure cruise
4 magma jet
2 steam augury
[/deck]

First thing I found out: Treasure Cruise should be Dig Through Time. Second, Swiftspear is REALLY good. I tested against the mirror, r/g Monsters, and Mono Black aggro. Swiftspear helps get you early damage against the mirror and Quickling was a great tempo play against removal. Mono black aggro I split 50/50; that deck is scary fast especially if they have multiple marauders.

What do you guys think? The mana base is one thing that worried me as I ended up dealing myself a lot of damage. I figured I needed untapped sources on turn 1 though for swiftspear.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:28 pm**

After all my mana probems , I am strongly considering just 2 colors.

There is definitely something to be said for the simplicity that is two colors. Look at all the problems I have been having sorting out my mana base (some the format, some my own choices). I think that is why a lot of these decks are only splashing blue for Mantis Rider and Jeskai Charm. I definitely wish I had access to Arid Mesa right now.

Edit: After talking it over with MDU, I think I am content with the mana base now unless things change in the format. This is my next iteration:
[deck]Raka Counterburn[/deck]

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:55 pm**

yeah, where the fuck is MDU?!?! Get his ass in here.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:00 pm**

After mana issues last night, Brimaz and Jace are out of the question.

I had trouble getting all 3 a lot, let a lone 2 of the same aside from red.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:19 pm**

What was your mana base dpaine?

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:24 pm**

I ran the kevin jones manabase I believe.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:31 pm**

I don't understand why you guys are trying to change the deck so much.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:19 pm**

I don't understand why you guys are trying to change the deck so much.

I suppose that depends on to whom you are referring. I have always been on a different version. I also think that the addition of Brimaz to either version is something well worth considering assuming that the mana supports it. It doesn't seem like there people are trying to reinvent the wheel as much as they are just trying to tweak the deck based on what we have seen out of the format.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:50 pm**

Well change just for the sake of it is only going to dilute the deck. There's nothing to tweak it for yet. "Our" deck won the first weekend of Standard and I don't think any of the lists in here look at all like it despite that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:20 pm**

None of the lists look like it???

I took out 1 Steam Augury for the 4th Seeker....pretty minor change.

I think the sideboard of winning deck could use a lot of work and our time is probably better spent on that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:01 pm**

There are plenty of tweaks to make. 4 Seeker is better tham 3. I watched all UWR burn games on the stream, and Rabblemaster sucked every time he was cast, so changing that is worth looking into. Also we have to expect the mirror so that means the sideboard needs some tuning as well. And I think that list is more of a shell than a list considering how early it is in the format. I'm pretty sure the burn package + mantis rider + anything else would've done really well in day 1 meta. Obviously Kevin Jones's list is better than "whatever else" but there is definitely room for improvement

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:50 pm**

Does Phrophetic Flamespeaker have a place? I want this card to work so bad......probably cause I traded for like 8 of them.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:06 pm**

Oracle of Bones?

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:58 pm**

Prophetic Flamespeaker doesnt attack through anything & Mantis Rider + Seeker is already so good versus aggro...and Brimaz if you're playing him. We'd rather just side in more Magma Sprays. If hard control becomes a thing, he might become a 1-2 of in the board

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:27 pm**

Would rather play Chandra or Ashcloud vs control.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:30 pm**

Oracle of Bones

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:38 pm**

Oracle of Bones

Well, could be fun to combo with Dig Through Time, get a 3/1 haste and draw two from your top 7? Seems like a good deal. I would worry about him casting something very insignificant a lot of times though.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:42 pm**

"you may" cast. otherwise its a 5/3 haste that swings kills rhino and poly k and swings through courser

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:53 pm**

Purp having a brainfart.

You may cast if tribute isn't paid. You're implying that you get the counters if you don't cast a spell.

Posted: **Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:59 pm**

Although not Jeskai, i will post it here.

Having never played with the Rabblemaster, (and i probably never will as i saw him when he was cheap but didnt buy him) i think he sucks because he dies to a lot of removal, blocks badly and is not good in the control mode.
Another reason why i will probably smth like this is that i own most of the expensive cards already (Chandra, Temples, Firedancers and the old spells).

[deck]
//22 Lands
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 RW Gainland
11 Mountain
//10 Creatures
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Seeker of the way/Satyr Firedancer
2 Ashcloud Phoenix

//
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Banishing Light
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
3 Magma Spray
2 Deflecting Palm

//Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr (old habit)
1 Hammer of Purphoros
10 a lot of crazy shit

[/deck]

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:12 am**

lol i did say that all i did was take what we had from the old burn list and update it with similar cards. this basically is the same boros burn deck and ill explain why. Seeker does the same job as young pyro but slightly worse against heavy removal midrange decks. We are trading a creature that generates so much tempo for a creature that allows our burn and non instant/sorcery cards to hit creatures dealing them damage though he doesnt do that same thing on defense though it works wonders facing aggro. Mantis rider deals one more damage wich allows it to punish planseswalkers a hell of alot better and just outright kills xenagos. Again we are weak to heavy removal midrange decks but when it doesnt just die its gets in for more damage over the course of a game than phoenix which is equivalent to the recursion and it blocks creatures favorably on defense where phoenix was terrible. Its the same deck but with the new format we have to play differently depending on what becomes good in the format. I like the idea of running brimaz/rabblemaster but I dont want to commit so heavilly to the board and thats why i like the hushwing. It gives us another damage outlet allowing our removal to hit creatures and acts like a skullcrack. We cant play the exact game we were playing with burn and we dont have the same lines but I think seeker does allow us to play a pretty damned good impression of our old deck which was the draw to this archetype. what im really starting to wonder is do we really need blue? I keep tweaking my deck in my head and I keep coming back to the comclusion that maybe we should dump this deck and go for a deck that more resembles our old list? thoughts?

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:30 am**

Well, if the format stayed as slow as it is, one can afford the tempoloss of taplands. But if the meta will change (and it will, when the ProTour reveals the new archetypes) and become faster, i think straight Boros or Izzet is better.

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:28 pm**

How would you even build an Izzet burn deck? You've got Swiftspears, Rabblemasters, and Sarkhan... I guess you can throw in Jace, Dig, and Steam Augury if you like it... I don't know, a burn deck without Seeker, Mantis Rider, and Jeskai Charm sounds pretty toothless to me.

RW I could see, though, with Chained to the Rocks and Seeker and an emphasis on the tempo side of things.

Posted: **Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:58 pm**

Also, this is pissing me the fuck off.

Everyone who got their ass burn out by Boros Burn last season is picking up the "Jeskai Tempo" deck and saying its so different than burn.

Its the same goddamn deck!!!!!

12 creatures...it was YP$, Phoenix, and Mutavault. Now its Mantis Rider, Seeker and Rabble.These guys supported by burn. Same Recipe as Boros Burn.

Then a bunch of the burn is back and/or similar like Jeskai 4 damage. Chained is basicallly unplayable in 3 color so Banishing Light is worse.

Whenever you put blue in a deck it allows all the typically blue or control players to run aggressive decks but still say that it's complex. Same shit happened when Mono Blue Devotion was new. Everybody was talking about how complex and fun it was but it was the same as most red aggro decks except the red tricks/burn were turned to blue-style tricks.

Posted: **Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:03 am**

A store in a big city near me has been running a Player of the Year tournament series. They hosted 3 preliminaries, 1 Sealed, 1 Standard, and 1 Modern. I played in the Standard and Modern ones , and earned enough points to qualify for the final (invite only) event.

It's structure is
Round 1: Standard
Round 2: Modern
Round 3: Standard
Round 4 + 5: Modern
Round 6 + 7: Standard
Top 8: KTK Draft.

I finally have a reason to test competitive decks again, and it feels good.

So far I'm leaning towards this archetype, unless something crazy happens at the pro tour.

This is the list I'm starting with:

[deck]
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Mantis Rider

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Banishing Light
2 Dig Through Time

2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

1 Flex Slot: Keranos, Jace, Goblin Rabblemaster, Stormbreath Dragon, Ashcloud Phoenix

4 Battlefield Forge
3 Shivan Reef
2 Flooded Strand
3 Plains
1 Island
2 Mountain
4 Mystic Monastery
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Epiphany

Sideboard
2 End Hostilities
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Magma Spray
1 Narset, Enlightened Master
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
1 Dig Through Time
1 Temple of Enlightenment[/deck]

Thoughts, concerns, comments, rumours, wild speculation?

Dies to Removal

(POST ROTATION) JESKAI BURN