Dies to Removal

Really tired, so I'll try to make this not nonsensical.
So me, mr.packratisntneeded played this list tonight:

[deck]Main:

2x Desecration Demon
4x Herald of Torment
4x Hero’s Downfall
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Mutavault
4x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
19x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pack Rat
4x Tormented Hero
4x Ultimate Price

Sideboard:

4x Dark Betrayal
2x Desecration Demon
3x Doom Blade
4x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead[/deck]

Similar to the story posted above about the guy who won the PTQ, I was racing to find 4 Thrill-Kill Assassin pre-game, and only found 3 in the whole store.
Tested against a player who I've gotten to know from my store( he's really great and is much better known in Puerto Rico). Wasn't sure, and decided to fill them with 3 Pack Rats on a whim.
Yes, a whim. No logic. On to the report.

Round 1:
2-0 vs Mono Black Control
Blew them out both matches. We're
just naturally better in this matchup. I forgot to sideboard even. We played a 3rd game for fun.
Sideboards -4 Hero's Downfall, -2 Desecration Demon, -4 Ultimate Price, +4 Dark Betrayal, +2 Erebos, +4 Duress. Went even better.

Round 2:
2-1 vs Naya Aggro
Game 1 I started with 2 lands, never drew another one and lost.
Game 2 he flooded out and lost.
Game 3, I thoughtseized and Lifebane Zombie awayed threats, and killed any mana dork that stuck. Won pretty easy.
Sideboarded -3 Ultimate Price, +3 Doom Blade; but I'm not even sure if that really mattered or had a positive effect. Grain of salt.

Round 3:
2-0 Black Aggro mirror match
Had to play one of our brethren. He was running the Xathrid-oriented human build, similar to what I ran back in December( except with Spiteful Returned and Pain Seer; but I never saw any Herald of Torment, though that isn't indicative of its absence).
Game 1
I must have been tired, or confident(or confidant ). Wait, nevermind, I was tired of mana screw. I took a hand of 4 Swamps, 1 Mutavault, 1 Hero of Torment, 1 Hero's Downfall. Opponent thoughtseized and took the Hero. I drew and got a pain seer, played the mutavault and passed. Eventually I outdrew him, and had enough removal to keep his board empty while swining with 1 or 2 creatures. Nothing too big.
Sideboarded -4 Lifebane Zombie, -2 Hero's Downfall, +4 Dark Betrayal, +2 Desecration Demon.
Game 2
Took 2 Mutavaults, a swamp, and some dudes.
Ramped into herald of torment, but he used removal on each creature. Turn 4 he played Xathrid Necro, and turn 5 he played Mogis, God of Slaughter( which he splashed red for; with no other red cards). Turn 4 I drew Pack Rat, Turn 5 another Vault. I conservatively played a Rakdos Cackler and fought aganist Xathrid and 2 other humans.
After being patient and waiting 3 turns, I played Pack Rat and made a copy, to play around the Bile Blights that I know he plays( they killed my turn 1 and 2
creatures earlier).
Playing a SMART and conservative Pack Rat game, I played around Bile Blight, and outraced his Zombies/Humans putting him on defense.
I took the 2 damage from Mogis each turn and made it out. So 3 Pack Rats ( 2 tokens), 2 Mutavaults, and a Cackler won it.

Round 4:
1-2 vs Bant (U/W/g) Control
Game 1
Took a 1 Swamp hand with a bunch of 1 drops. Got him down to 10 before I got my second land. He turned it around and won. Probably not a smart hand to take, but I was very sleepy and also was tired of the bad land situations. Regret this.
Eventually got to 4 lands, he resolved Aetherling. It attacked and I double Ultimate Priced( 1 main phase, 1 end step) to kill it at one point.
Sideboarded -4 Ultimate Price, -3 Pack Rat, +4 Duress, +1 Desecration Demon, +2 Erebos.
If I could do this again, I would probably have sided -4 Ultimate Price, -2 Desecration Demon, +4 Duress, +2 Erebos (almost like the Mono Black matchup).
Game 2
Took 3 lands, curved out like it
was supposed to, and killed him turn 6.
Game 3
Took 2 lands, didn't draw my 3rd until turn 8, and had to fold around turn 14 or 15. My own Herald of Torment was being nerfed by Kiora, and I was draining my own life and losing to mutavault attacks. My hand was 2 Desecration Demons, and Erebos. -_-

Round 5:
1-2 vs Jund Monsters (same guy I tested with and lost to before the tournament started!)
Game 1
Mulliganed twice from 2 one land hands.
He blew me out. Bigger creatures and I never hit land 4.
Wasn't sure what to do in this matchup due to limited testing and information from other players.
Sideboarded -3 Pack Rat, +3 Doom Blade.
Game 2
Mulliganed once from an all land.
Blew him out. Thoughtseized and Lifebaned. Bestowed Herald onto Lifebane. Pain Seer drew some great removal.
Game 3
Took a two land hand and failed to draw a third for quite some time, even with Pain Seer.
Him hitting 4 Sylvan Caryatid as blockers main my weenie creatures useless.
This is a bad matchup for us, since at
least 11 or 12 or our 1-2 costing creatures can't get past their 2 costing creatures (Caryatid and Scavenging Ooze). Hexproof doesn't help, either. :\
Reaper of the Wilds is almost impossible for us to deal with.

Went 3-2 and got 5th. Had fun though, and didn't pass out, a victory in it's own.

Next friday, I might consider 3 Thrill-Kill in the sideboard instead of 3 Doom Blade.
The Doom Blade didn't come in for many matchups, and there's not many things I really need to kill that Ultimate Price can't, but Doom Blade can.
Another consideration is 3 Mogis's Marauder in the sideboard ( I miss them) instead of Doom Blade.

Finally, I might try 4 Pack Rat and 3 Pain Seer, rather than the other way around. Pack Rat is a viable turn 5+ strategy (or earlier if you have multiple Thoughtseize and/or mutavaults) and one that can overwhelm Monsters, which isn't the best matchup.
It's not a super aggressive card, and I usually found myself saving them, and casting other creatures instead to keep
pressure on.
Against Mono Black, I didn't even play it at first, until they thoughtseized and saw it 1st game. And I played it during 2nd.

Other thoughts were that Desecration Demon is awesome, shuts out a lot of strategies without work. It, however, is not an option against Elspeth or Xathrid, without proper removal for both.

Not sure if temples would have been worth it. Fighting to hit land drops is scary enough, without hitting a tapped land. If you can get to 2 and resolved a Pain Seer, the rest should slowly come together( and drain all your life ).

I don't think mogis marauder does anything worth doing.

He's great!
(Disclaimer: He's great, if he's the top of your curve generally, and you don't have many other 3 drop creatures and a lot more 1 and 2. Otherwise, he doesn't work. )

So.....I took him out for 2 Desecration Demon.

FNM Report - 4-0, 3rd place (there were three 4-0's), tweaked the list a bit more, mostly changing numbers

[deck]4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pain Seer
2 Thrill-kill Assassin
3 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder
2 Ultimate Price
2 Bile blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp


Sideboard:
1 Erebos
1 Gift of Orzhova
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Desecration Demon
2 Doomblade
2 Dark Betrayal
3 Devour Flesh
3 Duress[/deck]
[
spoiler=Round 4 Mono Blue 2-0]-Standard mono blue list
G1 - Curved out well, but I think he kept an awkward hand with Jace, Thassa, Bident plus a 1 drop. He top decked a lot of assorted stuff but I managed to have a lot of answers with removal. Pain Seer did a lot of card drawing and a lot of damage to me.

Brought in Doom Blades, a Duress, pulled Cackler to avoid Tidebinder lock outs

G2 - Thoughtseized away his Nightveil Specter, he ended up top decking a Thassa and Bident and I spent T4 and on keeping him off Thassa Devotion. Pain Seer drew a lot of cards and Mutavault did a lot of work as well. Mogis's Marauder helped dodge his active Thassa, beefed up Cloudfin and pushed through the last damage.[/spoiler]

Prize Packs --- 2 Courser of Kruphix, 1 Temple of Malice, 1 Phenax, 1 Mogis, 2 common foils. Good stuff

What I liked ---

Mogis Marauder - Again, this guy just wins games. He's my go-to closer. My opinion would likely be different if I was
running into more Bx decks, but still it closed out 3 games

Pack Rat - Still good. Great card to have in the Green matchups. Definitely not at its finest in this deck but it still wins games against other creature decks.

Pain Seer - Really enjoyed it despite the fact that I almost killed myself vs Mono Blue.

Gift of Orzhova - Great addition to offset the life loss from Pain Seer and Herald of Torment

23 Lands - Seems like a good number to me, didn't run into any mana issues (flood or screw)


What I disliked

Too many 3 drops - 3 Drop spot seems pretty clogged up, had a couple of awkward hands with land, land, 1 drop, 1 drop, 3 drop, 3 drop, 3 drop.

Desecration Demon - Hated him tonight.

I think that I'm running pretty lucky right now because I definitely should've lost against the GR opponent.

Mogis Marauder - Again, this guy just wins games. He's my go-to closer. My opinion would likely be different if I was running into more Bx decks, but still it closed out 3 games

Pack Rat - Still good. Great card to have in the Green matchups. Definitely not at its finest in this deck but it still wins games against other creature decks.

Gift of Orzhova - Great addition to offset the life loss from Pain Seer and Herald of Torment


What I disliked

Too many 3 drops - 3 Drop spot seems pretty clogged up, had a couple of awkward hands with land, land, 1 drop, 1 drop, 3 drop, 3 drop, 3 drop.

This is very interesting. I took Marauder out
just before FNM, and kinda miss him now, if not solely for the G/R/x matchup.

Pack Rat was a last minute addition for me, and I loved it. I've become very good at playing around Bile Blight, Mizzium Mortars, and plenty of other stuff from my long experience with the card.

Gift of Orzhova brings me to the problem that I've been going on about for weeks now, that there's way too many good 3 drops in this archetype.
Too many 3 drops is why I took out Mogis's Marauder( didn't like having him be the first creature I play, or potentially the cheapest one in a opening hand).
However, Burn being our worst matchup, I'd love to have Gift in the side. I know from my original Agent of the Fates list that the card is a beast.

Desecration Demon - Hated him tonight.

This was the opposite for me.
I loved him!
He's the only card that makes Burn winnable, and won a Black aggro mirror match, when their biggest card was just Herald of Torment.
I think he's too important to cut. I didn't see him enough. He also makes the Monsters match easier, though not a good matchup still.
Sucks against Elspeth, but is really awesome to curve into( Cackler > Pain Seer > Herald > Desecration Demon).

Good reports guys.

Did some testing last night with a friend vs mono red and burn

I felt like I wasn't drawing the right part of my deck the whole time when I was testing against mono red aggro and my creatures were easily outclassed or when I finally dropped something better than his stuff (Herald of Torment) I was already at like 8 or 9 and was forced to exclusively block as he had lethal on board. There were a few games where I was able to drop him to 4 or 5 but Reckoner clogging up the ground and Chandra's Phoenix clogging up the air combined with burn was a beating. The one game I was able to win was where I went immediately on the Pack Rat plan T2 and he didn't have burn for the rat. Dropping a big dude (Desecration Demon) T4/T5 with other creature support seems to be a key as mono red seems to have trouble with that.

RW Burn is a terrible matchup. I beat it in the finals of FNM two weeks ago for 1st place but I think I was
incredibly lucky. Is there anything that would improve this matchup?

I tested Spiteful Returned in place of Thrill Kill seperately. While some games it did a lot of work (typically when bestowed) a lot of the games I was a little let down. The 1/1 body is just too weak. I will say bestowing a Spiteful Returned on another one and swinging for an immediate 4 unpreventable damage is pretty cool though.

@ Deht

Same list as above?

@ Deht

Same list as above?

Yep, same as above. I think I'm upping the Gift of Orzhova count to at least 2, I think I'll try Spiteful Returned in place of Thrill kill this week, probably drop a pack rat as well.

I haven't gone on the Pack Rat plan, but I think 3 Pain Seer / 3 Spiteful Returned / 2 Thrill Kill is a good mix in the 2CMC creature slots.

Lifegain definitely seems important to have, so at least 2 Gift and 1 Whip SB seem good.

I want to test more creatures at 1/2CMC, my best draws are where I curve out (somewhat obviously). Deathrite does a fun Grim Lavamancer impression, maybe as a 1/2 of.

About the only thing that can improve the burn matchup is (somehow) successfully enchanting and connecting with a dude that has gift of orzhova wings and/or drawing a bunch of duresses early. Matchup is abysmal. A desecration demon or two probably helps as well.

I run Pharika's Cure instead of dark betrayal, as I rarely feel the NEED for it. Ultimate Price usually does just fine, and the matchup is in our favor anyway.
I got 3rd at FNM tonight, and I'll write up a report.
But first, on burn, I've found that the matchup is winnable when you run Desecration Demon and resolve it.
They can't deal with it.

Also, I tested out matches where I didn't play toughness 2 or less creatures post Desecration Demon/Herald Bestow. Kept the creature level high the rest of the game, and it make searing blood and shock far less relevant. The burn player is pressure towards shooting the burn all at your face.
This may sound terrible, but playing more conservatively really worked.

So yeah. You need Desecration Demon( or Gift of Orhzovas) and either Devour Flesh or Pharika's Cure.

I don't know about Desecration Demon being the trump, on the Burn side I'd still be playing Chained to the Rocks in this matchup. Young Pyromancer tokens make it look a bit silly too.

I lost two games as Burn to this deck in testing, one was being raced by a Spiteful Return'd Herald of Torment, and the other was due to stringing together a load of Mogis Marauders.

FNM Report - 3-1, minor changes. Played against a lot of TOUGH opponents. Looks like G/R Monsters and Jund Monsters is back to being really popular at the store after a few weeks off

[deck]4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pain Seer
2 Spiteful Returned
2 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Herald of Torment
2 Mogis's Marauder
1 Devour Flesh
2 Ultimate Price
2 Bile blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Mutavault
19 Swamp


Sideboard:
1 Erebos
2 Gift of Orzhova
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Desecration Demon
2 Doomblade
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Devour Flesh
3 Duress[/deck]
Prize Packs --- Temple of Malice, foil common (Chorus of the Tides I believe), Oracle of Bones, Eidilon of Constant Battles (thought for sure it was a Brimaz as I reavealed the mana symbols and got super excited, Eidilon is cool though), something else that was a junk rare

What I liked ---

Extra Gift of Orzhova - 2nd Gift let me draw it regularly, was great

Desecration Demon - So good against Monsters builds.

Pack Rat
- Was great this week, seems to be an excellent card against the G/R monsters variants

Bile Blight - Great this week.



What I disliked

Spiteful Returned - Just didn't seem to do much this week, never had a chance to actually bestow it, it did some chump blocking and attacking as a 1/1 (into a Caryatid). I did a bunch of testing and he was performing a lot better there. I'll run him for another week and see if I can get some better results.

Changed builds for this Friday. Went from #teamPainSeer to #teamBigD with our favorite 4-drop.
Here's the list first.
It's basically Mike Flores's list.

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (8)
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Ultimate Price

Creature (24)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Herald of Torment
4x Lifebane Zombie
1x Pack Rat
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Tormented Hero
Land (24)
4x Mutavault
16x Swamp
4x Temple of Silence

Sideboard (15)
3x Doom Blade
4x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Pack Rat
4x Pharika's Cure
[/deck]


Round 1
1-2 vs Mono-Black Devotion (splashing the tiniest of blue for Far//Away)
First game, he was on the play. He kept drawing Nightveil Specter after Nightveil Specter. Ultimate Price, nor Doom Blade can do the job; and may I add that I didn't see EVEN ONE copy of Hero's Downfall the whole night from my deck.
I beat him up a bit
with Thrill-Kill Assassins that he was to afraid to block. He couldn't attack with them due to my 2 Herald of Torments in their way.
He then resolved a Gray Merchant with 2 Specters for a 16 point life swing.
Next turn he resolved another Gray Merchant for lethal.
I sideboard -2 Desecration Demon, -4 Hero's Downfall, and +2 Erebos, God of the Dead, and +4 Duress. (This may have sub-optimal or a borderline mistake.)
Second game, I took play and kill him turn 7. He kept using devour flesh, which worked out because I kept drawing a lot of land, and was fine with sacrificing mutavaults to save real creatures.
Game 3 was a big stallfest. I played a creature, he killed it. He played a creature, I killed it. Eventually my Thrill-Killl assassins( with no +1/+1 counters) deter attacks from coming in.
Eventually I resolved a Erebos, and then he resolved an Underworld Connection. We then proceeded to pay all of our life totals for a topdeck war, and eventually he topdecked the Whip of Erebos, which gave him 2
free Nightveil Specter swings from his graveyard. It was my game next combat with the 2 Lifebane Zombies and Erebos I had.
Close game, but I didn't get it as easy I did last week. My opponent is probably the most skilled player at my store, and grinds PTQs and GPs regularly.

Round 2
Bye vs The World
Always jokes about wanting one of these.
Seriously, the TO was confused when I got bye, as I haven't lost a round one ever.
Sat around and watched by buddies (running U/W Devotion and R/G Aggro).
The R/G aggro had a close loss to the same Jund Monsters I lost and tested with last week. That opponent will come up after the 4th round. Remember this. (You don't have to remember it. It's not too important.)

Round 3
2-0 vs Junk Monsters
Think G/W Monsters with black removal and thoughtseize. Basically this was the same list Gerard Fabiano just posted on StarCityGames.com. I was told after the match that it got 10th last week. It runs Polukranos, Angel of Thune, Scavenging Ooze, and maybe Voice of
Resurgence( it's not my type of deck, so I honestly don't know....yeah, I'm bad player lol).
First game I took a 4 land hand, with 3 Swamps, Mutavault, a Thoughtseie, Pack Rat, and Tormented Hero in my hand.
He had play and cast Thoughtseize turn 1. He played me last week as Bant Walkers( also Round 3), and was somewhat familiar with my deck. He took my Thoughtseize.
I play Tormented Hero and pass.
He Thoughtseizes( <-- can this just be a verb already?) and takes my Herald of Torment that I just drew.
Turn 2 I attack for 2, drop Mutavault, and then Thrill-Kill Assassin unleashed.
Turn three he devour flesh on me, I lose Tormented Hero and then he plays Scavenging Ooze.
Next turn my Lifebane Zombie that I topdecked exiles a Courser of Kruphix from his hand( that's another card in that deck!).
He scavenged once with Ooze and plays a Sylvan Caryatid. I ultimate price the Ooze and beat him senseless with a Lifebane Zombie. I bestow the Zombie with Herald, the next turn, and then he folds.
Second
game I mulligan from a no-land hand to a 4 land 2 spells. I keep it. It's pack Rat and Lifebane Zombie. First turn I play temple of deceit. Second turn Pack Rat( the removal magnet himself!!!). Turn three,(as expected), he taps out to Hero's Downfall on Pack Rat.
Turn 3 I exile his Polukranos to reveal his hand of lands. I beat him up with a Lifebane Zombie and he throws down Caryatids and Coursers. He folds and tells me that he hates this deck( though I heard he was loving earlier in the tournament...might still be a good deck).

Round 4
2-0 vs Jund Monsters
I've played this opponent before. Beat him with Black Control on Gameday, a January FNM, and at BNG Prerelease(in which I went 5-0 with B/R Control), but I always lose the dice roll on my own dice. This guy is hilarious and we usually just joke around as we play. It was by far the most fun match, as usual. Grab your popcorn.
We sit down in the
dark corner of the store, far from the counter, and generally where the "good players" avoid sitting.
I lose the dice roll and go second(, of course I lose... -_- ).
Now, my opening had had cackler, ultimate price, mutavualt, swamp, lifebane zombie, swamp, and Desecration Demon.
He plays Elvish Mystic, and I, sadly, can only afford a Rakdos Cackler.
He plays Courser of Kruphix with a Courser on top. He plays a scry land and puts it on the bottom for a dreadbore( no black mana yet). I( thought later than I would like to) cast Ultimate Price on the Elf.
I pass.
He plays a land, scrying another Courser to the bottom and attacks me for 2.
I play a Lifebane Zombie and exile a Course from his hand. He has now gone through all 4 coursers. I attack for 2 with Cackler. I should add that his hand was the now-exiled Courser, a Garruk, a Domri, and a Xenagos. Someone watching jokes that he's playing "Jund Walkers". We joke about it a bit( jokingly, of course).
Turn 4 he play Domri. -2 to
have Lifebane fight Courser and swings for 2.
Turn 4, I attack for 2 at Domri( killing it), ultimate price the Courser and play Thrill-Kill.
Turn 5 he Dreadbores the thrill Kill and passes. (Killing that Elvish mystic has really hurt him!!!)
Turn 5 I bestow the cackler with a Herald and attack him for 5 flying. He stops and reads Herald post combat, and proceeds to crack jokes about it being a card that he knew would be good upon it being spoiled months ago.
Turn 6 he plays a Domri and +1 into nothing.
Turn 6 I bestow yet another Herald unto the Cackler and swing at him for 8 flying. We joke about it being the pinnacle of Cackler's constructed play.
The T/O walks over, as everyone else is done with the final round and wants to collect winnings and go home. 1st and 2nd are already determined, so we're playing for 3rd.
The T/O jokes about us hurrying up and killing each other faster, though after a few jokes, I realize that he has no idea that we're only on game 1. This seems to happen every time me
and my opponent play each other. It's a load of fun, though, and my favorite type of Magic game. I tell him that it's game 1 and he gets pissed and walks away. I heard from a distance "IT'S TWO EFFING AGGRO DECKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!".
A crowd begins to thicken around us. We say that it must be because "we're such good players"(, jokingly, of course).
Two turns of discussing ending the game already leads to a Dreadbore on the Cackler and a scavenging ooze and Polukranos being played.
I keep attacking in the sky for 6, and he stalls with the Ooze's lifegain, much to the disappointment of myself and everyone crowding around to watch us. Groans and murmmering is heard from our audience as the game stalls turn after turn with a Stormbreath blocker( I have Downfalled the Hydra and Ooze).
He finally is down to 2 life, plays a Courses and asks the judge( T/O) if he can play Overgrown Tomb from the top of his deck untapped without killing himself(, jokingly, of course).

We finally got
to game 2.
I sideboard +3 Doom Blade, +2 Pack Rat( cuz why not?), and board out -4 Rakdos Cackler ( though he flew it for a win earlier, this was a good decision due to Caryatids being annoying. A non-bestowed Cackler can't block or ever deal damage in this matchup. This is even more true on the draw.) and -1 Ultimate Price.
My opponent( jokingly, of course) pesters me about sideboarding for too long and that he's not sideboarding himself. I ask him "Why not? Throw in some Plummets or something!" and he thinks about it and begins sideboarding.
Game 2, his plays are temple, temple, Domri, putting a Reaper of the Wilds into his hand.
I play temple, mutavault and Thrill-Kill Assassin, and then a Lifebane Zombie on Turn 3, exile the Reaper, as his hand is lands and planewalkers.
Turn 4, he puts a caryatid down. Thrill-Kill Takes it out and hit Domri for 3 with Lifebane, putting it down to 1.
Turn 5, he ticks Domri up, with no creatures. He then plays an elvish mystic. Then he casts Xenagos,
the Reveler and puts in a 2/2 token to hit me for 2.
Turn 5, I bestow the Lifebane Zombie with Herald and kill Xenagos with it, while my Assassin takes out the Elf.
Turn 6, things get stupid. He REALLY hates herald.
He -2 Domri putting it down to 1 loyalty and fights my 6/4 Lifebane with the 2/2 Satyr. He then plays.......Grull Charm to do 3 damage to target creature with flying, targeting( you guessed it), the Lifebane Zombie!
A buddy( who went 1-3 with G/R Aggro) jokes that it was "THE WORST CHARM EVER!". Another buddy( went 3-1, losing to the same 2nd place mono black deck that I lost to first round) takes a picture of my opponent and I posing with the Gruul Charm, and then posts it on Twitter.
The T/O shakes our hands for the "Card of the Year" nomination for Gruul Charm( jokingly, of course).
He plays 4 for Polukranos and it's bad on.
Thrill Kill and Polukranos trade and begin to beat his face in with my 3/3 flying, and a 2/2 Mutavault, putting him down to 5.
I decided not
to kill Domri, which is a risk. If Domri gets something good, he could make a comeback. However, I'd rather just put him into lethal, in case he doesn't get his stuff together. It worked.
Another highlight comes up, on the last turn. He +1 on Domri to reveal an Elvish Mystic and put it in his hand.
He then proceeds to tap out and play Garruk for 6, and then using his -3 ability to put Elvish Mystic into play( jokingly, of course).
I raise my hand and yell "FLAVOR JUDGE!". The T/O leans over on the other side of the store and says "Yes?". (Flavor Judge is an inside joke between me and the T/O about his love of comedy and Magic lore flavor).
"My opponent just essentially Elvish Piper-ed an Elvish Mystic!!!"
The T/O pretends to play a pipe flute and says "Come on over elf friends!".
I draw a Desecration Demon, and take my time casting it( jokingly, of course).
"JUST KILL ME! PLEASE! I HATE LIVING!" my opponent says( jokingly, of course).
I ultimate
price the Mystic and swing for 5.

I got 3rd won $15.
Went out for Applebee's with my 2 buddies that I came with, my opponent from the last match, and the Jund player who I played last week( and sometimes test with before FNM). It was a fun night, and fun is the very reason I play Magic. As much as I love the science of play testing, discussing game design, and arguing about card tuning with you guys, I do it all for fun. I'm not that serious. I don't even own an actual Dark Confidant( it's may favorite card, though. One day, if I ever get a ton of money, I'll get one).
Not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll wrap this bad boy up.

What I liked
-Thriller-Killer-Mother-Effin-Assassin!
People either don't block it, or they forget not to block it!
Without a +1/+1 counter, people will hold back all sorts of bigger creatures so that they don't get popped by the needle that is Thrill-Kill, and have their creatures exposed for the baloon animals that they are!
nDeathtouch has a name, and her name is Thrill-Kill.

-Herald of Torment
Of course! I'm convinced that no matter what build you play( even the humans build), that it is a MUST-PLAY.
It's a great 5 drop Aura, and a pretty good deterrent against Mono Black and Blue as a 3 drop(, though I prefer not to deter. Prefer. Deter. It rhymes. )

-Lifebane Zombie
It did a phenomenal job at giving me information and exiling threats.

-Gruul Charm
Not Gruul? Then, die!

-Applebee's Half Off Appetizers
Yum.

What I disliked
-Desecration Demon
I'm finding that, aside from the Burn matchup where bigger creatures are better, it isn't that useful.
Against G/W and G/R Monsters, it got tapped out by the mana dorks that they no longer need in their post-Planeswalker game state. These Monsters decks only need mana dorks as fodder of blockers and things like Desecration Demon. They ramp into
planeswalkers, and then stay with the walkers(, with their constant being killing you with Monsters).
It would only be an unstoppable threat, whenever I've already been winning with the rest of my board state.

-Pharika's Cure
Couldn't find a matchup to board it in against. Might just be my metagame, but still! Come on, Mike Flores!

-24 Lands
I got flooded so much. I'm just luckly that whatever I did play could hold it's own.
At one point( against G/W I think) I used a temple to scry a temple to the bottom and then drew a swamp. I already had 5 lands on field and 2 in hand.
Against mono black, I had like 10 lands out by the end and 2 in my hand.

What I missed
-Pain Seer
It really makes a difference against U/W and Mono Black Control, and I was missing that in my control match today.

When it comes to the Mutavault issue, I don't think a Mutavault with intimidate can be blocked by another Mutavault(, though I may be wrong, but hear me out).
You seem to be saying that you had Mutavaults whom were given intimidate by Mogis's Marauder, and your opponent blocked them with their Mutavault.

"A creature with intimidate can’t be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or creatures that share a color with it."

Now Mutavault has no color.
Another Mutavault with no color therefore can't block it, because they don't share a color, for they don't even have a color to share.
Mutavaults are not artifacts either, despite being colorless( like an Eldrazi with Changeling).
Just all creature types.
nNot card types, though(, like Artifact).

If this is true, I think you should have won.
Even if I am wrong, you should call a judge to make sure.
It's a free resource that most judges tell me isn't taken advantage of, enough.

Oh shit, you're totally right Colorless means no color, derrr... Fawk.... ARGH!

It still seems to be a close enough of a matchup to be winnable or favorable.
Whether you would have 1-2 or 2-1 the match, I think scientifically speaking, we can judge that it's a tough but even matchup.

Overall, though I forgot to say it earlier, I loved you report.
Thanks for contributing to the Black Aggro knowledge pool!

There is a certain irony in the fact that I'm thinking to myself "this guy doesn't know how intimidate works" yet I don't either!!! Hahaha.. Ah well.

I'm always down to try out new stuff and experiment at FNM, I only really get to play magic out with people one night a week now a days, and just spend the rest of the time goldfishing on Forge so I don't necessarily have anything "new" to contribute to the discussion other than my limited experiences with decks. I appreciate the fact that there is a fair share of people here at DtR that are willing to share knowledge, offer advice and post reports of what worked for them and what didn't work!

I've also had SUCH a great run with this deck at FNM's over the last month. Three 4-0 weeks in a row and one 3-1 week is pretty crazy. I've had victory 15 of my last 16 matches with this deck and about half of them were 2-0's. I really think that this
mono black aggro deck is a lot of fun to play and can achieve victory pretty consistently

I have one last test next Friday before I play in a SCG Open the following week.
The last build I'll try will be my "corrections" to Conley Woods's latest build of this deck.
If I had a 4th Thrill-Kill, that 1 PackRat might not be in the deck.

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (7)
3x Hero's Downfall
4x Ultimate Price
Land (23)
4x Mutavault
19x Swamp
Creature (26)
4x Herald of Torment
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Mogis's Marauder
1x Pack Rat
4x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Tormented Hero

Sideboard (15)
3x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
4x Duress
2x Gift of Orzhova
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Lifebane Zombie
2x Pack Rat[/deck]

Sideboarding, I'd try:

We have very good card going for this deck in another 2 power 1 drop. Some pros are saying spiteful returned is a good card. How were everyone opinions on this card?

I think it's excellent and I've seen a lot of people do well with it. I'd rather play it in this deck than the demon.

It gives your deck tons of reach and the fact that you can play it as a 2 or a 4-drop is great value. It's basically a 3/1 for 2 vs control so it helps tons in that matchup.

I will 100% be playing 12-ones, 4 Spite, 4 Bobby, 4 Marauder aggro once Nyx hits.

I'm considering that creature base too. Can it be run off 21 land?

Or is Herald still where we want to be? I think I want 22 if I'm going for 4 Herald. 21 land and a random one of Herald?

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize

Creature (25)
4 Gnarled Scarhide
1x Herald of Torment
4x Mogis's Marauder
4x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Tormented Hero

Removal (8)
8 Removal Spells

Flex (2)
2 ???

Land (21)
20x Swamp
1 Mutavault
[/deck]
Where the flex slots are either more removal, Thrill Kill Assassins, Deathrite Shamans, Herald of Torments, or Mutavaults?

Has anyone tried a 1/2 of Springleaf Drum?

Looking good. I'd be on:

[deck]Creatures
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Pain Seer
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Lifebane Zombie

Spells
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
1 Duress

Land
19 Swamp
2 Mutavault[/deck]

having access to herald of torment is too good dude.

cut 2 lifebanes and a duress for 3 Herald's and that list will be a great starting point

If nothing else is certain, play 4 herald of torment, and 4 thoughtseize. Those cards are the reason this deck is playable.

I'm presonally married to the Demon. I don't know if it's a pet card, but I was happy with it every time I saw it and it seemed awesome. I haven't tested enough with spiteful returned so that my attribute to my bias.

12 one drops also seems like a good idea.

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize

Creature (26)
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4x Herald of Torment
4x Mogis's Marauder
3x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Spiteful Returned
4x Tormented Hero

Instants (8)
4 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall

Land (22)
20x Swamp
2x Mutavault
[/deck]
I'm pretty fond of Mogis's Marauder, he can really put a game away. Not sure about the removal package, but both spells are so strong in the abstract. I've been on 22 land for a while, but can see going back to 23 if we want to be bestowing more often.

With 12 Bestow spells, at what point does Agent of the Fates become the nut?

I've been playing Mono Black Aggro( alongside the so-called "Devotion" control variant) since about December, and since then I've run through 3 main variants.

There's the Conley Woods variant: Pros
Very aggressive. Mogis's Marauder and Spiteful Return
guarantee consistency in that area.
Gets the job done quick.
Cons
Very inefficient against other creature decks and (especially because) it runs very low lands and removal.
You always fight to stay alive into your 3rd and 4th lands, and you always don't have removal when you need them.


Then I came to Mike Flores's list:
Pros
Beats out other aggro decks by having bigger creatures, higher curve, and and good anti burn sideboard plan.

Cons
4 temples and 24 lands make a slower deck, which in
this archetype is heavily felt.
The very important( almost most important) Mono Black matchup isn't as good post-sideboard. Nightveil Specter builds have come back again and those are difficult to fight against, as they can steal and cast ALL of your cards, and nothing but Hero's Downfall in our 75 cards can kill it.
If you don't get one of the demons in any matchup, it's easy for you lose from generally being lower on cheap creatures.
The U/W and Esper control matchups are also not as good with the slower pace of this deck.


Finally, I've returned to the first list that I've actually played in tournaments for black aggro. Only with 1 change from Gabe Carleton-Barnes's PTQ-winning deck, I've determined this to be my favorite.
It is important to note that I've only switched builds to optimize and compare which list is ultimate the best.
Without further ado, this is the list I played this Friday and am considering running at StarCityGames Open Detroit. I'll try to keep this report shorter
than usual. It's 4am and I have a long Saturday tomorrow.

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (8)
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Ultimate Price
Creature (25)
2x Desecration Demon
4x Herald of Torment
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Pain Seer
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Tormented Hero
Land (23)
4x Mutavault
17x Swamp
2x Temple of Silence
Sideboard (15)
4x Dark Betrayal
2x Desecration Demon
3x Doom Blade
4x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead[/deck]

Round 1
0-2 vs B/W Humans
Game 1, took a good hand and drew Swamps 4 turns in a row as he outnumbered me in creatures. Turn 6 I drew Thoughtseize and conceded.
Sideboarded in 2 Demons to outclass them in the next matchup and took out 2 Rakdos Cackler, because it sucks against Soldier of the Pantheon.
Game 2, mulliganed to a good hand, played a Temple to avoid mana flood, scryed a Swamp the bottom and proceeded to draw Swamps
the next 3 turns until I hit a....you guessed it...Thoughtseize.
Never stood a chance. Mana flood is serious business.
I resolved probably less than 5 spells between the two matches, so it's almost as if I didn't play them.

Round 2
2-0 vs G/B Dredge
Game 1 early beats with Tormented Hero, Pain Seer, Thoughtseizes on key instants, and multiple Lifebane Zombies exiling cards lead to a quick victory.
Add in 2 Demons, 3 Dark Betrayal, side out 4 Thoughtseize and 1 Ultimate Price. Wasn't sure honestly what to side out, but I figure playing extra removal should work.
Game 2, opponent took forever sideboarding. Guess that's the territory of a lesser known deck. I beat him with almost the same stuff as before. Tormented Hero into Pain Seer, into Lifebane, into Desecration Demon; all the time Pain Seer keeps revealing all of my land drops. I love that card. Draw in aggro is pretty nice, and especially when all you have to do is keep attacking; the only thing we already love to do!

Round 3
2-0 vs Blue
Devotion splashing White
Game 1 Tormented Hero, into Rakdos Cackler, into Herald of Torment into a topdecked Desecration Demon, into a Herald of Torment Bestowed onto a Herald of Torment. With 2 6/6 flyers, and 2 Ultimate Prices and a Hero's Downfall onto a few of their creatures, my opponent( who drove me to the tournament ) didn't last long. They put out 2 Tidebinders, a judges familiar, a Raptor, and then a Nightveil Specter who died to Downfall. Last play was a Frostburn Weird and then a concession.
I sideboard out Rakdos Cackler if I'm on the draw because it'll almost always get tapped down all game by Tidebinder Mage, which just isn't worth the deck slot, nor the time to rescue. So I was -4 Rakdos Cackler, -1 Ultimate Price( for it can't kill Frostburn Weird, Judges Familiar, or Nightveil Specter which are all 4-ofs) and then boarded +3 Doom Blade, +2 Desecration Demon.
Game 2 goes by quickly as my opponent
mulligans to 6, and I thoughtseize away their earlier playable creature, frostburn weird. The rest of their hand in lands, thassa and a bident. Every time they play a creature, I kill it, as Pain Seer consistently draws me extra removal. Alongside the Seer is a Lifebane Zombie and the game ends quickly.

Round 4
2-0 vs Izzet Burn
Game 1 I took a hand of 3 Thoughtseize, an ultimate price, a Swamp, a Temple, and a Pain Seer. Glade I did, as I thoughtseized away the playable cards their hand. I was able to beat them down as they tried to get enough blue mana to play hybrid color and double blue spells. Mana issues like this are why I feel this deck will do even better. Everyone is trying to stretch their mana in the metagame, and are playing tapped lands and ones that hurt them extra. Helps me out.
I play 2 Temples, and I feel that any more in this deck runs the risk of nullifying the value of our 1 costing creatures.
I used them several times to make sure Pain Seer didn't kill me in Game 2.
My opponent
recovered and got me down to 7 with 2 Oracle of the Bones coming in for 5 and 3 damage, which didn't go well with my Pain Seer already taking out 5 life. I still won, by drawing removal for said Oracles and 3 Mutavaults to get lethal quicker.
I boarded out 4 Thoughtsieze and a Pain Seer for 4 Duress and a Demon.
Game 2 they burned me down to 5( and Pain Seer had to hold back until previous said scry land could make sure the coast was clear) and I barely made it out alive with a Herald of Torment( who was also hurting me) won them. Very tough matchup.

Round 5
2-0 vs Mono Blue Devotion
Game 1 was like the one before. Rakdos Cackler and Tormented Hero run into superior blockers. Lifebane Zombie kept attacking past them, and I drew enough 1 drops to eventually have too many creatures for them to block. Frequent Thoughtseizes kept relevant cards like 2 Thassas and a Nightveil Specter out of the game.
I boarded out the 4 Cacklers and a Ultimate Price like before for 3 Doom Blades and 2 Demons.
Game 2
went similarly, but after my Zombie hit em up a few times, they casted a Curse of the Swine to turn Lifebane Zombie and Thrill-Kill Assassin into 2/2 Boar tokens. I top decked another Lifebane Zombie and was able to keep attacking in for a win.
Apparently the guy also sided in a few copies of Clone( for master of waves). Very interesting stuff.

Ended up with 3rd, despite losing round 1(the second time ever I've lost round 1) and had a lot of fun.
Confident in this build of the deck, and have tested it heavily against U/W Control and Jund Monsters in my spare time. The Jund Monsters depends on what creatures you draw and is even closer of a matchup post sideboard as we have better threats and answers, but so do they.
Will be testing over the next week to make my final decision on whether to play Black Control or Black Aggro at the SCG Open in my hometown.
If you have any questions about this deck, feel free to ask, as I feel I'm becoming the "Black Aggro person" in my local store, and can
probably offer some decent answers for ya.

Goodnight, and God Bless.

Hope you did well Dark Confidant!!! Thanks for your nice posts here and keeping this thread alive.

I came back to Mono Black Aggro (been off n on for a while) and on 2 hours of sleep ran to top8 in my LGS TCG Player Silver event. Lost game 3 in top8 vs mono black in keeping a hand that showed my mental state dwindling fast...kept 4x land...pain seer.. thrill kill...bile blight on the play. came home n slept 13 hours haha

This was my list
[deck]
4 Thoughtseize

3 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
2 Bile Blight

4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Herald of Torment
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Tormented Hero
Land (22)
4 Mutavault
18 Swamp[/deck]

Similar to conley but I chose another downfall and thrill kills over a rat and returned.

Usually isnt a lot of black at this place so I cut to 2 dark betayal and played it 2x...



I think we should all stick with MBA since
that new 1-drop looks really good and possibly the new B/W God splash.

It hasnt had much tier 1 sucess but it should be a stronger deck once Nyx is out and it would be great to already know the deck well and have months of testing.

Hope you did well Dark Confidant!!! Thanks for your nice posts here and keeping this thread alive.

Similar to conley but I chose another downfall and thrill kills over a rat and returned.

Usually isnt a lot of black at this place so I cut to 2 dark betayal and played it 2x...



I think we should all stick with MBA since that new 1-drop looks really good and possibly the new B/W God splash.

It hasnt had much tier 1 sucess but it should be a stronger deck once Nyx is out and it would be great to already know the deck well and have months of testing.

Thanks! I got 3rd at my LGS FNM. Doing the Star City Open this coming saturday in Detroit( I'm from Detroit), but I think I'll go back to my ol' reliable Black Control deck for it. This
is solely for metagame reasons. I'm predicting people to expect aggro.
Rule of thumb: if you're spending more time trying to predict what decks others will play than you're spending comparing your own deck to others, then you should switch to control. (<--that probably made no sense. ignore it.)

I think my MBA list isn't good enough to hit a large variety of targets, so far. Perhaps your list is better than mine. I think I may have tried it for a little, or something pretty darn close. I think your list looks good. Mogis's Marauder is amazing. Spiteful Returned is sideboard-worthy at best, but I think there's never any room in sideboards this far late into Standard.



That 1 drop is amazing. I'm pre-ordering 4. It's the card I'm most excited for:

• It can be your 9th-12th Rakdos Cackler(
  assuming Tormented Hero is your 5th-8th).
  It can be an enchantment to boost your Herald, Pain Seer, or worst case scenario Tormented Hero/Cackler with +2/+1.
  It can be a black version of Pacifism, bestowed onto an opponent's creature to enable a lethal attack.

Finally, I don't think MBA will be a "tier 1" deck as long as Ravinica Block is standard. Maybe it'll get a chance to shine next year, but I'm always a firm believer that no matter how good a deck is, it won't be considered good until it's popular.
If 99 players at a 100 player tournament play Mono Blue Devotion and 1 player plays our superior Black Aggro, it'll look like a bad deck when Blue eliminates it eventually.
I don't think it's good enough against Monsters anytime, and against certain U/W and Black Control builds (that are around when people expect Aggro).
We're just way too easy to sideboard against. Last Breath, Anger of the Gods, Drown in Sorrow, Pharika's Cure,
and a Whip of Erebos are so good against us! Same with Reaper of the Wilds.

Forgot to say how I'd soooo love to buy some B/W lands and throw 2 or 3 of the B/W God into this deck! Too bad pre-order is $20...not sure if I should get it. Still would need to get B/W lands.

Also thanks for the appreciating! I'm really passionate about both writing Magic theory, and about this deck!

Yea I think there's little reason not to splash for Athreos, he looks insane

Speaking of which:



this guy seems to fit right into B aggro

That looks pretty dirty. I feel like black aggro has to be a big deck, if not now, in the fall.

Yea I think there's little reason not to splash for Athreos, he looks insane

Speaking of which:



this guy seems to fit right into B aggro

Oh wow....yes. Thank you, Wizards.

Master of the Feast looks like a great card but it is going to make the 3-drop decisions even harder. Not necessarily a bad problem to have though.

I like this card however I dont know if it is good in meta with Desecration Demon. It is too quickly stopped.

I like this card however I dont know if it is good in meta with Desecration Demon. It is too quickly stopped.

Desecration Demon can only kill others. It can't save its controller's life.
In sight of that, I think this will be a fine card against and alongside Desecration Demon.
Worst case scenario, you should be running 4 Ultimate Price and have plenty of weaker creatures to sacrifice....and that's good enough to win a game of Magic.

Master of the Feast looks like a great card but it is going to make the 3-drop decisions even harder. Not necessarily a bad problem to have though.

I think this guy is powerful enough to push out Mogis's Marauders( as Flying makes our win cons evasive enough), and then put Lifebane into the sideboard.

Here's the list I'm will test first:

[deck] Lands
19x Swamp
4x Mutavault

Creatures
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Tormented Hero
4x Gnarled Scarhide
4x Pain Seer
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Herald Of Torment
4x Master of the Feast
2x Mogis's Marauder

Spells
4x Thoughtseize
2x Bile Blight
2x Ultimate Price

Sideboard
3x Dark Betrayal
4x Duress
2x Gift of Orzhova
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Doom Blade
[/deck]

Has anyone considered running Nightviel Specter and Erebos main for potetially 10 sources of CA (and turning off lifegain G1)?