[Primer] Boros Burn

[Purp]

I think the matchups you would board Erebos in, you are already favored. Not sure if I would run the temple of malice at all. This past weekend at the open (finished 7-3) I never thought I needed more scry. I think it's important to save magma jets until you really need to scry, similar to temple of triumph. You will always be needing a white source especially post board. I would never cut the 4th mutavault, it's too good.

[Elricity]

Also, putting in spells that require black mana when you run 2-4 black sources? Don't ever do that.

Can you explain how Aurelia's Fury ended up being better than shock for you? I can see narrow situations where the silence is ok but otherwise, I'm not seeing tappng [mana]W2[/mana] being worth 1 more damage.

[surelock]

Elricity, the Fury was more flexible for me as I drew it all 4 times when I had the mana to use it (prob not good in the opening hand) I managed to use it against an esper player to kill his Elspeth, and another time during a mono black player to stop a Thoughtseize and Duress in 1 turn( he used the the Duress next turn and I just burned him with what was in my hand and he was stuck with the Thoughtseize the rest of the game). Possibly could have done the same with a shock, but I looked at it as a tempo swing (but I also understand this is one deck where you do not mind a Thoughtseize much at all as it does part of your job for you).

I see the other points as valid (I was thinking the same things on the Butcher and Erebos, but I like to hear validation from folks who have played the deck and red in general much more than I. Ido not recall any games where I did not draw a Temple of Malice at all, the extra scry it
provided was very nice, but I am sure it also slowed me by at least a half a turn so understood there as well.

[Elricity]

I won a game day 7-0 with a blend of Z and MDU's deck so here's my experience.

You don't need the black splash anymore as each version took out toil/trouble for something better against the control matchups. In Z's case, it was Viashino firstblade. In MDU's, firstblade was already main so we swapped for Stormbreath. Putting in black scry lands to try to cram in any black spell is horribly inconsistant in a deck that values consistancy.

Given that, while the scry is very helpful, you want 4 mutavaults but you want to be able have enough white and red to cast all your spells so for consistancy, you really need the boros guildgates over additional scry lands. Z's ash zealot build in particular has 8 [mana]RR[/mana] spells that want to be cast turn 2 which demands 19 red sources but the deck as a whole doesn't want more than 23 lands. You could swap guildgates with Malice lands but going from 10
white sources to 8 is risky. The enter tapped part isn't an issue.

Next, firstblade exists to boros charm your opponent and leave a body later. If it can get chumped by a 2 power creature to trade, it's failed at its job as an overpriced shock. The white cost is only a problem if you start jacking with the mana base. Lifebane Zombie is also not enough of a reason to switch to a strictly worse creature.

Fury is a slow spell in a deck which does not want to go slow and doesn't run enough lands to support an [mana]x[/mana] spell. You really want 26 lands or 25 lands with mana ramp before X spells are viable.

Finally, take this advice from someone who has a similar problem wanting to tweak winning decks. Play test it first, then tweak. After all, it's what Z did before he took it to the GP. Cutting out the play test step is folly.

[surelock]

Elricity, sounds like a plan, stick with the main list and change the T/Ts to Firstblades and that should be my deck for the PTQ then. Thanks much.

[zenbitz]

Anyone have any tips against Ghor-clan Rampager? This card just mutilates me.

[surelock]

Pithing Needle naming Ghor Clan?, also it can only be used on attacking creatures so killing them before attacks is best. I realize neither of these options are great however.

[Elricity]

If I know an opponent is playing bloodrush, I have no problem blasting their creatures when they pass priority in their main phase. How exactly is Ghor-clan hurting you?

[whimsicalbox]

Took Zem's list to a PTQ and got into the top 4. Deck's a lot of fun to play, lost out in the top 8 to a u/w control player who was much better than I am so I don't feel too bad about it. R/G monsters honestly never felt like a tough matchup, although I may not have played any super competent with it. Any reason you play Viashino Firstblade over Minotaur Skullcleaver? Against u/w the only difference is trading with mutavaults, although I suppose that could be a big deal.

[zenbitz]

I guess I got blown out by it trying to block with Ashley then burn their 5/5. Better situational awareness would help!

[Elricity]

If you're put into the boat of blocking with ash zealot vs GR monster, you are probably losing that game regardless. You were better off swinging into it and hoping he blocks.

[zemanjaski]

Took Zem's list to a PTQ and got into the top 4. Deck's a lot of fun to play, lost out in the top 8 to a u/w control player who was much better than I am so I don't feel too bad about it. R/G monsters honestly never felt like a tough matchup, although I may not have played any super competent with it. Any reason you play Viashino Firstblade over Minotaur Skullcleaver? Against u/w the only difference is trading with mutavaults, although I suppose that could be a big deal.

Brimaz, Fiendslayer Paladin, Archangel of Thune are cards they play.

[whimsicalbox]

Took Zem's list to a PTQ and got into the top 4. Deck's a lot of fun to play, lost out in the top 8 to a u/w control player who was much better than I am so I don't feel too bad about it. R/G monsters honestly never felt like a tough matchup, although I may not have played any super competent with it. Any reason you play Viashino Firstblade over Minotaur Skullcleaver? Against u/w the only difference is trading with mutavaults, although I suppose that could be a big deal.

Brimaz, Fiendslayer Paladin, Archangel of Thune are cards they play.

Fair enough, I hadn'
t been thinking about those. Not sure how that slipped my mind.

[Self Medicated]

Any reason you play Viashino Firstblade over Minotaur Skullcleaver?

Beacause Firstblade gets +2/+2 when it enters the battlefield while Skullcleaver only gets +2/+0. At least, I'm assuming that's why.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Looking over the post Melbourne list with the updated sideboard and got a question:

Is there a reason Spark Trooper is out of the sideboard now?

List and sideboard for reference:
[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

1 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Mountain

SIDEBOARD
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

+1.

[zemanjaski]

In probably 3-4 games it was stuck in my hand where I had 2 coloured sources + 2 mutavault and was sad.

BO comes down earlier and probably gains you at least 6 life in the matchups where you want it.

[zemanjaski]

Trying to lower the curve and improve consistency, always, always, always.

[LP, of the Fires]

Don't know if you guys saw the post on FB, but Blind Obediance/imposing soverign are the best cards vs. Big mana creature decks like RG monsters and RW devotion. You beat those decks by setting them back on tempo and racing. The games where you're forced to kill there guys and incrementally kill them are the ones you lose as the shear size of the creatures often creates virtual CA and you run out of gas when they get to like 7 life.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I liked Spark Troopering Jace to death the one time that happened. But I agree BO is nice.

[zemanjaski]

Don't know if you guys saw the post on FB, but Blind Obediance/imposing soverign are the best cards vs. Big mana creature decks like RG monsters and RW devotion. You beat those decks by setting them back on tempo and racing. The games where you're forced to kill there guys and incrementally kill them are the ones you lose as the shear size of the creatures often creates virtual CA and you run out of gas when they get to like 7 life.

i spoke to two pros on GR Monsters, both of them told me to play BO.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Don't know if you guys saw the post on FB, but Blind Obediance/imposing soverign are the best cards vs. Big mana creature decks like RG monsters and RW devotion. You beat those decks by setting them back on tempo and racing. The games where you're forced to kill there guys and incrementally kill them are the ones you lose as the shear size of the creatures often creates virtual CA and you run out of gas when they get to like 7 life.

i spoke to two pros on GR Monsters, both of them told me to play BO.

I sold mine

[Self Medicated]

They're only about $2 each. Get on Deckbox and find 'em!

[Lightning_Dolt]

They're only about $2 each. Get on Deckbox and find 'em!

Have to find em locally, leaving the country in 27 days.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Are they maybe good enough to main deck?

[zemanjaski]

^ I am considering it. If we want them against more than 50% of decks, then yes.

[Self Medicated]

Are they maybe good enough to main deck?

Depends on your meta. Lots of aggro or G/r monsters? Go for it. But if you have a balanced meta you're probably better off leaving them in the SB.

[zemanjaski]

Viashino Firstblade, extend hand.

[surelock]

So what does the new sb'ing plan look like then?

[DriftingLifted]

Looking over the post Melbourne list with the updated sideboard and got a question:

Is there a reason Spark Trooper is out of the sideboard now?

List and sideboard for reference:
[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

1 Boros Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Mountain

SIDEBOARD
2 Blind Obedience
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade[/deck]

Same as the one mentioned in NBW's post.

Picking up 2 Blind Obedience from a buddy, and apparently I haven't been drafting enough red in BNG-THS-THS cause I only had
1 Searing Blood. Everything else is sleeved and ready to go

[Valdarith]

As a Jund player myself, BO is a huge card. Provides a big tempo advantage and adds a point of damage to the dome to all your spells. I'd hate to play against it, but be wary because we are bringing Golgari Charm to deal with Satyr and the expected postboard Chained to the Rocks so BO kind of plays into that card, but at least you are overloading Charm with targets.

[NerdBoyWonder]

As a Jund player myself, BO is a huge card. Provides a big tempo advantage and adds a point of damage to the dome to all your spells. I'd hate to play against it, but be wary because we are bringing Golgari Charm to deal with Satyr and the expected postboard Chained to the Rocks so BO kind of plays into that card, but at least you are overloading Charm with targets.

Friend is taking Jund Monsters to GP Phoenix. I believe he has 2 Golgari charms in the side along side 2 Abrupt Decay. With 3 to 4 Firedancer, 4 Chains, and 2 BO's I think the 4 SB cards in jund are a bit out numbered.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I want to fit in burning earth to just lock out jund.

[Lightning_Dolt]

And esper.

[Lightning_Dolt]

To be honest, I wasn't really feeling firedrinker satyr.

[zemanjaski]

I don't disagree. I want BE too.

[Lightning_Dolt]

[deck=Sideboard (15) ]
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Blind Obedience
3 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Burning Earth
3 Spark Trooper[/deck]


???

[Purp]

I am not sure if want to cut FDS yet. A t1 FDs into T2 Ash is usually an auto win vs control.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I am not sure if want to cut FDS yet. A t1 FDs into T2 Ash is usually an auto win vs control.

But it's a fucking terrible top deck after T2, and in this deck there aren't really any bad top decks other than that card...

[TubeHunter]

Burn isn't a real deck. You all are just dumb.