Dies to Removal

That's a really odd ability...

Iso? Murphy? Void? Can an experienced player give any insight into whether this could be a legit claim?

Sounds wonky, could be real could be fake. End of the day it doesn't matter because his play has been terrible.

I know there's scum on my train. Zem is a hard read and I think his intentions are pure this game. I feel that Captain and Ham are the strongest candidates. Captain is trying to make a case on me because of my posts which have no hint of scuminess. Ham is sheeping the wagon and I think some pressure on him will give
us info that will be useful going forward.

This makes me want to lynch still

Actually, it's time to chat Ham. You blatantly say that you see nothing wrong with my posts, yet you vote me anyways? That seems a bit scummy to me. You've also flown under the radar this game.

vote hamfactorial

Wraith sat at L-1 for a day, I don't think you're at any real risk of scum quicklynching you. I wanted to get some activity from you after reading raspy and CM's arguments for why you could be scum.

Hmm, somehow I missed that bit at the end of suga's post about how he was scum.

Unvote

Vote: Suga

Where is the damning part of his last post? I don't see him saying he's scum, only that he's comfortable with lynching raspy. I ISO'd him and found that he's mostly posted some early game chaff, posted in solidarity with Wraith/
Pie at L-1, and then sheeped Z w/r/t raspy.

holy shit unvote, vote droppin

Again, what are you seeing that I'm not?

Suga's ISO link for the curious.

Try and find some content or real scum hunting in his posts

I couldn't find anything worthwhile, but you seemed to see something else that wasn't apparent to me.

Vote DroppinSuga

Why do you feel comfortable putting him to L-2 if you can't find anything worth voting him for on you own?

As stated above, if Suga is town I don't think he's in immediate danger. I asked for clarification from you and CM about what you found
scummy in Suga's last post, since I didn't see it. You explained what you saw in his reaction to you and Z half-heartedly going at it, then I looked through Suga's post history in this thread (on CM's suggestion) and then it made more sense.

When I started playing mafia I thought it would be easy to spot scummy players, but that doesn't happen. It's all too subtle for that. If I saw something screaming "LOL I R TEH SCUM " in Suga's posting, I would have pointed at it.

@Ham how much mafia experience do you have?

CM:

This is my 3rd game.

Actually... this could be interesting

If the ability is real (and he happens to be town, it could be a scum ability) we could always force a scummy player to post "I am a townie" and then we have a cop of sorts.

Droppin just has done nothing and doing nothing at almost 445 posts is bad.

This game has too much lurking and unactive players at the moment

CM:

This is my 3rd game.

Interesting

Captain, are you a townie?

Yes, I am town

That is usually a Iso thing

Iso needs to post more.

I'm back for the most part. I'm in class right now, but I'll try to get something more comprehensive later.

The best thing we could do is to have everyone post "I am Town" and have suga choose who to investigate. I'll start (I guess CM kinda already started)

I am town

The best thing we could do is to have everyone post "I am Town" and have suga choose who to investigate. I'll start (I guess CM kinda already started)

I am town

That requires Suga to be alive during the night, so not the lynch target. Aren't you still voting him?

I am town.

I am Town

I am increasingly frustrated with the shitty justifications players offer here for doing nothing.

Down to lynch Suga or Ham. There will be no other lynched toDay.

There could be a lynch today without you, it's not like we need you to make a lynch happen.

Haha, ok scum.

lol ok.

Your contributions have been very useful for Town.

Not going to address the specific requests if raspy then? Content with a hand wave defence?

Why are you even playing mafia if a noob flailing breaks your spirit? How is giving up after actual no effort pro-Town? What are you expecting, someone to up and admit that they're scum?

You and Ham are either scum or on the same level as Tezombad with your anti-Town play.

Not everyone plays the same way as you. When the game goes 10 pages with everyone shitting on a n00b player who plays different, it is kind of a spirit breaker. The game was super fucking boring for a few days while everyone shit on Wraith and his flavor gaming. There was nothing to gain from playing the game.

Z, talk to me when you're not sounding like a self absorbed asshole.

That's just how mafZa rolls.

Z, talk to me when you're not sounding like a self absorbed asshole.

You've got questions and quotes to address, why not look into providing some content.

Or case Ham if your vote on him is serious.

Ham's being playing like that since Day 1, why only take an interest now?

Answer my other questions.

I like that your response is to misuse "self-absorbed" (guess you heard it somewhere and thought it sounded clever) and to continue doing nothing.

How marvellously valuable you are, simply must be Town!

Nah I'm good. You're the only one still on my case.

Ham's "I don't know how to play, what to look for or what to do" is how he coasted through his last game as scum too. After an early effort to post more, he's reverted to his typical style.

Nah I'm good. You're the only one still on my case.

This will look really good when the other half of the game shows up.

I like how you complain about the Wraith saga, but did nothing to stop it, made no effort to extract value from it and have made no effort to get the game back on track.

If you're Town, make your case on Ham.

Don't really care. If I get lynched, so be it. I claimed and you can take it as you will.

Suga, why did you claim at L-3 (that was my count) and before anybody asked you to do so? I asked for specific info, not necessarily a claim.

I believe I was at l-2, that's why I claimed

I work until 9:30 Pacific tonight, I'm going to make a post afterward. There's something that caught my attention a few pages back and with the current discussion going on it keeps hanging on to the back of my mind. I'm going to see what kind of case I can make out of it, till then gents.

For raspy:

Why are you asking questions I've already answered?

More than one person's been caught answering the same question different ways before. It's always possible again. It's fine if you don't have a read on me, but it does strike me as odd since my experience with you so far is that you develop reads very quickly. So it was worth questioning. It certainly doesn't mean you HAVE to develop quick reads. Just that it's been my observation.

Fine.

- you're basically asking me to clear you.
Sure, it reads as if you're irrelevant which way I go, but it doesn't serve Town to distract me from hunting actual Scum if you're Town; I've not seen you adopt a mindset of forming a Town voting block via POE previously, though it did come up in our last game I suppose; but even then right now it wouldn't be effective, so any such effort is extremelt forced.

Not asking you to clear me at all. Sure, being cleared sounds nice I suppose, but that's also night kill bait right there. No thanks. I'm not trying to distract you from hunting scum. I'm trying to clear YOU! Not sure why that's forced during a stall in which we're the only ones posting.

Fine.

- you've also basically suggested that I should be confident in reading you (this in a game where you're acting pretty Townish previously); so any read I should give is 'Town'. When I explain reasons why I'm unwilling to make a read, you've basically tried to boost my
confidence "you were totally right on day 1, believe in yourself!" To get me to do so. I can't see a Town motivation for doing this. If you're Town, you don't care what conclusions I reach, only that I show a Town-mibdset in my analytical process; that's sufficient for you to start narrowing your field of suspects. Instead your concern seems very much to be with getting clear.

It's an attempt to tease information from you so I can develop my own read on you. You mentioned something about me, I asked you about it to get down to YOUR thought process, not to try to clear myself.

Fine.

- there's no reason to force engagement with me. We've got multiple posters who've promised content soon and I've already expressed an interest with dislike for rednihilist and Hamfactorial. Getting me to make substantive assessment of you is just a distraction. For reasons, explained, that doesn't serve Town.

If it doesn't
serve town, how does it serve scum? How does giving people more to read on BOTH of us not serve town? Sure, others have promised content, but where is it? Should we just sit idle until it comes out (if it ever does)?

I think it is important to hound people who promise and don't deliver. I don't believe in "Lynch all Lurkers", but when someone continues to post content devoid filler to try and fly under the radar, they're worth leaning on. At least in theory - the optimal strategic position as determined by DTR players is to do nothing at all, it would seem. So I can appreciate your frustration.

- trying to make it seem like we successfully caught you in DTR is just bullshit. In that game you told us at the time you were being scummy to fish for info, to exploit your unlynchable miller role to Town advantage. We were never going to put you on unlynchable godfather, so it's an entirely easy situation for you to exploit there; and you're
trying to exploit it now by telling me you're easy to read! What the hell? Thing is, you'd have known in DTR that the lunch would fail and that we'd 99% believe your fake claim, so you could afford to act ultra scummy Day 1 to get Town-cred and then mislead us.

Aside. I have nfi what Suga was thinking.

Me telling you in DTR Mafia that I was purposefully acting scummy was the lie. I wasn't trying to act scummy. You caught me, got me to claim, and lynched me. Then I said I did it all on purpose as a cover up. Sure, easy position for me given how things ended up, but that's not the point. And again, I'm not trying to tell you I'm easy to read. This is what I'm saying:
1. I've observed that Zem develops reads quickly
2. I've posted a lot
3. Zem hasn't developed a read on me yet
4. I wonder why that is

You've got to understand why I cannot trust you. I don't know, and your word means nothing here sorry, whether you did or did not deliberately mislead
me on Day 1 of DTR. So I just cannot trust how I think you play. Maybe you are telling the truth now (and lied in DTR discussion after the game)? Or maybe you're lying now and were telling the truth then? Both scenarios damage your credibility. That's why I feel unable to make a quick read.

RE: Wraith; your logic for defending him seemed incredibly flawed if we don't assume that he's just awful. Getting the role name wrong is awkward, but he didn't state the correct ability; that he doesn't research and basically claimed the only PR he'd seen in his last came are cause for immense suspicion. On balance, I'm concluding that yeah, he's just awful; but the way you made a defence seemed wilfully ignorant or at least dismissive of Wraith as a person and what you would know about him from the last game. It doesn't sit well with me.

I've specifically tried to avoid saying anything about Wraith on a personal level. I don't know him at all, and he seems
like a good guy from the clan thread. Since I'm obviously not seeing the same thing the rest of you are, can you highlight for me (via quote would prob be easiest) where he stated the wrong ability? I didn't see that at all. What I saw was the same thing stated in 2 different ways, both of which could have been taken almost directly from the Mafia Scum wiki's definition of town roleblocker.

So just to deal with this again, my issue with your analysis is that it draws upon the mafia wiki explanation of the role, to explain away wraith's misunderstanding (roleblocker = stop night kills). It certainly does say that. The thing is, wraith has stated many times that he hasn't read the wiki (this is why I referenced knowing him personally; players who haven't played before may not be aware of this; you are as it was a discussion point in DTR). Consequently, wraith's only way to know what the role does is from his role PM, and I (and I suppose the others) just don't think he was given
a role PM that stated his abilities only impact was "to stop night kills", because that simply isn't what the ability does. The secondary issue is that wraith effectively claimed a doctor (as he would understand it), which was the revealed Town role in his only other game. That isn't a big point; but not getting the role name correct (possibly a misremembering of a role from DTR) and getting the ability incorrect as well (very incorrect actually) should arise some suspicion.

Nonetheless, on balance, I came to the same conclusion as you, albeit via different reasoning.

This is what you want right?

Vote rcwraspy

Not what I was after, but whatevs.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'm not re-reading my posts asking myself "does this sound town" or "what's the town mindset here?" It seems like that's what you're expecting from every post. I'm just posting what I'm thinking as I'm thinking it, and trying
to work with what I've got. Right now all I've got is 11 pages and 1 other active user.[/quote]

We can discuss this after the game, for now I need to keep it under my hat.

Back to this game:

I'm actually ok with a lynch on rcw, I haven't liked his play in this game but I wasn't sure if it was me being jaded from DTR.

This was an extremely scum statement, made without explanation. Its i keeping with his scum mindset - not committing to anything and trying to avoid attention; but maintaining enough activity so avoid the ire of those who hate lurkers. The thing is, in his mind it would have been such an easy jump "of there goes Zem, leaning on his next person; mentioning approval makes it look like I am taking part"; but he clearly had not read my case and his other posts highlight that he really isn'y paying attention or engaged with the thread.
Which faction can afford to do that? Mafia. Why? They don't need to catch anyone.

To be honest, I've just lost interest in the game with all of the flailing from wraith and it's day one.

Not a Town post.

Actually, it's time to chat Ham. You blatantly say that you see nothing wrong with my posts, yet you vote me anyways? That seems a bit scummy to me. You've also flown under the radar this game.

vote hamfactorial

Ironically describing his own behaviour, here Suga tries to deflect attention on to another player (possibly his scum buddy). Suga won't answer similar questions posed to him (I wonder why? ) but will attempt to extract them from another. You come to discussion with clean hands and an open mind; Suga has neither.

I know there's scum on my train. Zem is a hard read and I think his intentions are pure this game. I feel that Captain and Ham are the strongest candidates. Captain is trying to make a case on me because of my posts which have no hint of scuminess. Ham is sheeping the wagon and I think some pressure on him will give us info that will be useful going forward.

This is again a handwave. No hint of scumminess? You're kidding. Even if the posts had no scum content at all, trying to make and test a case doesn't make Murphy scum - that Suga isn't answering questions and is throwing up his hands to avoid answering - that's scummy behaviour.

Not everyone plays the same way as you. When the game goes 10 pages with everyone shitting on a n00b player who plays different, it is kind of a spirit breaker. The game was super fucking boring for a few days while everyone shit on
Wraith and his flavor gaming. There was nothing to gain from playing the game.

Nah I'm good. You're the only one still on my case.

Don't really care. If I get lynched, so be it. I claimed and you can take it as you will.

[/quote]

Not Town posts. There is no evidence of Suga trying to help Town in a week. Furthermore, note his "no one else is on my case". He's at L-3 I believe, with only raspy unvoting and more than half of the thread yet to catch up. Don't let him tell you not to look into him further; there are still people willing to lynch this scum.

Read through the last few pages and form your own opinion.

However, why not ask him to answer the outstanding questions? If he is Town he should want to do that (more information helps Town after all).

Ask me a question, I shall answer while watching Fight Night.

<- @office.
Seriously, you can't expect anything more than one-liners, at the moment.

Instead of pushing me you could just read my other game(s) and discover by yourself I'm town as usual.
I'd like to hear your opinion on raspy and imopen, if you've got free time.

On re-read, I don't like this post as all. That sort of self assured cleverness is out of character with his previous game.

Suga

How do you know there is scum on your train?

Why do you feel that no one else is after you when Rez has said that he supports your lynch and will case you today?

I know there's scum on my train because I'm an easy mislynch target today. The train started and it moved fast so it was easy for the Scum to jump aboard. I'm pretty sure there's two on board. Who knows, I could be wrong but I highly doubt it's a full town train.

RE: Rez - I'm not too worried. He hasn't been the beacon of logical play lately so I hope his illogical rambling isn't enough to get other townies to lynch me.

Dammit, ragging on Rez is so endearing.

hi I'm here. Catching up in a little bit!