Dies to Removal

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:15 pm**

I would be leery as well but magma jet becomes less and less powerful the shorter you want the game to be and with satyr's, you're making it clear that going long isn't the longterm goal. Unlikely it will be my game plan but my point is, magma jet isn't sacred if your goal is to blaze fast.

If that's the plan, why would 4 Magma Jets be worse than 2 Chained to the Rocks and 2 Banishing Lights? Are you just speaking in general terms because the board plan in question results in those 4 exile effects in the main and the 4 Jets sided out.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:17 pm**

I would be leery as well but magma jet becomes less and less powerful the shorter you want the game to be and with satyr's, you're making it clear that going long isn't the longterm goal. Unlikely it will be my game plan but my point is, magma jet isn't sacred if your goal is to blaze fast.
If that's the plan, why would 4 Magma Jets be worse than 2 Chained to the Rocks and 2 Banishing Lights? Are you just speaking in general terms because the board plan in question results in those 4 exile effects in the main and the 4 Jets sided out.

Only two jets were sided out.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:18 pm**

I would be leery as well but magma jet becomes less and less powerful the shorter you want the game to be and with satyr's, you're making it clear that going long isn't the longterm goal. Unlikely it will be my game plan but my point is, magma jet isn't sacred if your goal is to blaze fast.
If that's the plan, why would 4 Magma Jets be worse than 2 Chained to the Rocks and 2 Banishing Lights? Are you just speaking in general terms because the board plan in question results in those 4 exile effects in the main and the 4 Jets sided out.
Only two jets
were sided out.

Oh jeez, I thought zenbitz's comment was directed at the board plans BiddingMaster posted. (he sided out at least 1 jet in every match-up so that's why I got that impression)

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:22 pm**

It did get confusing with two lists posted so close to each other. But he had asked what I board out. And I took out two jets on top of the shocks fotf and a charm

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:24 pm**

Hmm.. I would always cut the full 4 shocks before touching jets, but I do love my scry.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:26 pm**

I would be leery as well but magma jet becomes less and less powerful the shorter you want the game to be and with satyr's, you're making it clear that going long isn't the longterm goal. Unlikely it will be my game plan but my point is, magma jet isn't sacred if your goal is to blaze fast.
If that's the plan, why would 4 Magma Jets be worse than 2 Chained to the Rocks and 2 Banishing Lights? Are you just speaking
in general terms because the board plan in question results in those 4 exile effects in the main and the 4 Jets sided out.
Only two jets were sided out.
Oh jeez, I thought zenbitz's comment was directed at the board plans BiddingMaster posted. (he sided out at least 1 jet in every match-up so that's why I got that impression)

I love jet in match ups where I am the control deck, it feels warm and fuzzy to kill a dude and scry 2. I find jet has less a return in match ups were it can't control things on the table. The scry is sti strong but not really mana efficient. I like keeping a coupleiin vs control but not a full four.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:28 pm**

Hmm.. I would always cut the full 4 shocks before touching jets, but I do love my scry.

I can't think of a match up where jet comes out before shock....vs control shock is the first cut, vs aggro you want both in and Normaly cut charm.....who ever cut jet before shock is just wrong.

Posted: **Fri May 09, 2014 10:34 pm**

Biddingmaster: I really can not see how ediolon can be better then shock in that deck.shock has synergy with phoenix and yp$ where ediolon seems to work against them. It just seems counter intuitive.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 1:30 am**

@rhyno
ok so to the first question. Shock has synergy with yp and phoenix but eidolon has synergy with every other card in the deck. it can either be 4 more copies of yp or 4 more copies of phoenix in that I get to kill creatures with my burn and still get to deal damage with the eidolon which is what yp does and if I cant I can sit there and point spells at their face while their life total is getting smaller and we have helix to bump out life total back up which is what phoenix does. Eidolon merely imitates a skullcrack because we can use our burn to kill mono black's creatures like nightveil and pack rat and attack past them with eidolon and they are taking damage for playing those spells so its not exactly the same but it isnt something that mono black can just ingnore. it sucks up a removal and deal them damage making way for our phoenix and yp. Its like standard bearer in pauper in alot of situations yes but other
its a choke hold.

@warwizard
the second question was how was eidolon good in the mirror. well if they are going to use seargin blood or any other spell to kill it they have to take 2 damage to do so and they cant just ignore it every turn. it does deal 2 damage when it attacks. if they are using their burn on it instead of phoenix and yp and taking damage then I call that a win/win for us.

Also ive played with these cards and have seen these situations so whoever wants to argue with me needs to test it out first before you say yay or nay. Im giving you guys my impressions based on what I have personally witnessed and all I am hearing is speculation on how it is bad. Play the card, give it a chance. It seems ignorant to me to just look at it and say "oh well it looks like crapp so I am not going to play it." Everyone said the same thing about the television and star wars. Noone thought these things would ever be a thing but it turns out that they made quite a few people millionaires.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 1:38 am**

"eidolon has synergy with every other card in the deck"

IDK. Burning ourselves in the face when we play like 65% of our deck is certainly a synergy, just not a good one.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:10 am**

in the zealot/searing blood/4vault version that uses 2 mana confluence can you run a temple of silence or do you gotta run 1 guildgate?

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 4:17 am**

Nothing is strictly necessary - go with what you like. Your manabase should be ok without that 1 red source, so if you value the scry a bit more you could run one instead. Don't just stick to the list though, think about what you prefer and experiment

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 6:55 am**

@rhyno
ok so to the first question. Shock has synergy with yp and phoenix but eidolon has synergy with every other card in the deck. it can either be 4 more copies of yp or 4 more copies of phoenix in that I get to kill creatures with my burn and still get to deal damage with the eidolon which is what yp does and if I cant I can sit there and point spells at their face while their life total is getting smaller and we have helix to bump out life total back up which is what phoenix does. Eidolon merely imitates a skullcrack because we can use our burn to kill mono black's creatures like nightveil and pack rat and attack past them with eidolon and they are taking damage for playing those spells so its not exactly the same but it isnt something that mono black can
just ingnore. it sucks up a removal and deal them damage making way for our phoenix and yp. Its like standard bearer in pauper in alot of situations yes but other its a choke hold.

@warwizard
the second question was how was eidolon good in the mirror. well if they are going to use seargin blood or any other spell to kill it they have to take 2 damage to do so and they cant just ignore it every turn. it does deal 2 damage when it attacks. if they are using their burn on it instead of phoenix and yp and taking damage then I call that a win/win for us.

Also ive played with these cards and have seen these situations so whoever wants to argue with me needs to test it out first before you say yay or nay. Im giving you guys my impressions based on what I have personally witnessed and all I am hearing is speculation on how it is bad. Play the card, give it a chance. It seems ignorant to me to just look at it and say "oh well it looks like crapp so I am not going to play it." Everyone said the same
thing about the television and star wars. Noone thought these things would ever be a thing but it turns out that they made quite a few people millionaires.

Okay challenge taken up and accepted just finished a 10 game block( 5 on play 5 on draw) with your build vs bg devotion. And lets just say this is not star wars or a tv which are staples of their respective peers, this is more like beta to VHS. 4-6 vs Bg EotGR drawn 5 times in the 10 games. drawn twice on the 2 wins. drawn and cast the turn before I won, wasn't needed could of easily been shock. The other game I won it came down on turn 2 had a minor effect on game, drew out a devour flesh. not even sure if the devour there was right, it was a land light hand for the devotion deck and wanted to buy a turn or 2 to draw a 4th land.

2 of the 3 games I lost while having it, I was to far behind to cast it when I drew it. Playing it would of ment they could just sit back on demon and merchant and I couldn't do anything because I was
already to low on life. The game I lost I cast eidolon on three, they cast demon on 4....awkwardness ensued. I ended up having to sac the piller on legs to keep in the game, since thoughtsize turn 1 hit my chain.
felt like I could of won 2 of the 3 games I lost if he would of been shock, would of at lest been closer buying back a phoenix to feed to a demon while domeing for 2.
all in all it was lack luster, when I was already ahead, it was okay and kind of kept me a bit ahead, when I was behind I was wishing it was shock every time. shock at lest domes the opponent for sure and buys back phoenix, this guy is just the worst top deck after turn 3 PERIOD.

EDIT: also if you run EotGR you have to run mana confluence to ensure you can cast on turn 2 or 3 when it serves the most importance, and running pain lands with this guy is so awkward.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:00 am**

I've been testing at the moment and I'm still preferring satyr to trouble just because it gets under counterspells. Maybe my obsession with permanents.

Neither satyr nor trouble are good against mono black so kind of a moot point.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:06 am**

Nothing is strictly necessary - go with what you like. Your manabase should be ok without that 1 red source, so if you value the scry a bit more you could run one instead. Don't just stick to the list though, think about what you prefer and experiment

your wrong id say Phoenix is strictly necessary in the deck

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:07 am**

I've been testing at the moment and I'm still preferring satyr to trouble just because it gets under counterspells. Maybe my obsession with permanents.

Neither satyr nor trouble are good against mono black so kind of a moot point.

I don't think trouble is bad vs MBC, its not amazing, but definitely not bad.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:44 am**

Oh, it's definitely bad. It's slightly less bad on the play but still bad vs 7 discard deck.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 8:22 am**

id still much rather have it then a 2 damage burn spell. it either helps dig or can be a big life swing. either way its been helpful.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 1:30 pm**

To clarify my standpoint against Junk, we should be the "burn" deck in this MU (we can't effectively control them nor can we afford to allow the game to drag on, thus we just need to try and burn over the top as quickly as possible) - its unrealistic to bank on chains or assemble against a deck running the number of lifegain cards and enchantment hate since they have inevitability on their side.

I'm still trying to find that sliver bullet against control since I don't think the creature plan will work with fat sheep lying around - T//T works but its still a darn struggle esp. without Ash so I'm going to try 2x Font of Ire and 4x T//T.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:08 pm**

Let us know how font works out for you, I am shy of it since it dosnt hit players and takes 6 mana if you didn't play it early.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:31 pm**

It does hit players, though I don't think its great either

Control has gotten better with JOU which makes it rather hard in figuring out which angle to attack it from (its not above me to run BBV..... if it really comes too that).

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:34 pm**

It does hit players, though I don't think its great either

Control has gotten better with JOU which makes it rather hard in figuring out which angle to attack it from (its not above me to run BBV..... if it really comes too that).

Oops I combined two thoughts it only hits players and it dosnt hit creatures heh BBV.... Trying to place what thatis

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:36 pm**

Oh snap blood baron of viskova....could we actually run that...

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 2:36 pm**

Blood Baron of Vizkopa assuming we're on the Mana Confluence plan as a means to attack Bx Devotion and UWx Control.

It only requires one [mana]B[/mana] so if your ok with extra Shock lands then sure.... but like I said that would be my final option if I can't find something which won't ruin my manabase.

I still need to test: Font of Ire, Extra Chandra, Pyromaster, Burning Earth, Ash Zealot postboard and Spirit of the Labyrinth.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:33 pm**

The way to think of Eidolon is not as how many shocks we get symmetrically, but how much shorter does it make the game? So, for example in the mirror it seems terrible on the draw but not totally insanely awful on the play.

Decks it might be decent against:
mono-blue
weenies
control (every syncopate, every dissolve, every d-sphere, every SPHINX'S REVELATION, every black removal spell other than gilt or silence the belivers which don't see much play)

Against Bx devotion or any midrange deck it seems terrible. We don't need (or even want) it against weenie or red aggro. We don't *need* it against mono-blue... but it might make that into an actual bye (they won't actually get to turn 4 to resolve master of waves) and opposed to merely favorable.

That said... it seems like a card that would have to be tested EXTENSIVELY.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 7:35 pm**

Font of Ire was surprising good for me in draft. But lava axe is in M14 and we would get a token offa it.

Posted: **Sat May 10, 2014 8:19 pm**

Burn vs Burn feature match on SCG right now. http://www.twitch.tv/scglive

Eidelon of the revel doing work in the mirror, but I still dont think its great. Interesting to see how it turns out for these guys.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 12:15 am**

The other burn deck is running 2 Dictate of The Twin Gods main

uhmm...

edit: well both of them made top 8

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 1:20 am**

is Eidolon of the Great Revel greater then Font of Ire vs Control and Bx Devotion from the SB?

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 2:23 am**

Time to cringe while we watch an Eidolon being much much worse than a Pyromancer in a feature match.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 2:25 am**

RW burn with eidolon is the 1 seed going undefeated. looks like its the real deal

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 2:35 am**

Did he dodge Gxx midrange decks (Junk, Jund, Gr, etc....)?

Or was Revel much better they I give it credit for (I current don't believe it should be in the MD)?

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 2:53 am**

Ah misread what you wrote. Not sure about that.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 2:59 am**

is Eidolon of the Great Revel greater then Font of Ire vs Control and Bx Devotion from the SB?

Yes

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 3:03 am**

[deck]Creatures (8)

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Lands (23)

9 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
Spells (29)

2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
2 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Wild Guess
Sideboard

4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
4 Satyr Firedancer
2 Wear
2 Act of Treason[/deck]

Here is the decklist. 2 Wild guess, act of treason over harness, 1 dictate, firedrinkers and dancers. Definitely gonna be fun testing this out.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 3:28 am**

Dictate did massive work for one player running Reckoners and postboard Spark Trooper. CVM got blown out by it on camera and made PSully giggle like a schoolgirl. Not quite sure how good the card really is but it looks super fun.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 3:30 am**

I def. prefer Revel over Ash (I'm play testing a set now as we speak

) so beside all the cute stuff I like this take over the "sometimes drinking, sometimes dancing" SCG brews.

I do think YP$ is better brews but it takes certain play-style to make him shine.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 4:29 am**

I 3-0 a SE avenging Rhyno

Beating Kibler Junk (which I think is a bad version of Jeff Hoogland Junk), Naya Hexproof and UBR Control (it was horrible don't ask) testing:

[deck=MDU's Revel Burn]Lands 23
3 Mutavault
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice

Creatures 08
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Eidolon Of The Great Revel

Enchantments 05
2 Banishing Light
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 24
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil // Trouble
3 Eidolon Of The Great Revel
3 Satyr Firedancer
1 Reprisal
1 Chandra,Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear/Tear[/deck]

My thoughts on the list:
[
card]Banishing Light[/card] is much chunkier then I expected, I hard ever have turns where I can slam the card down and do something else - so I may move one revel up and BL down for tomorrows test run

Eidolon Of The Great Revel is MANY TIMES BETTER then I expected (when your ahead) which is usually all the time Bx and Control.
I'm thinking about running more of them MD since they create a semi-lock on your Opp. which is good no matter the MU (my only problem is that they look really awkward when your staring down at a full board).

Satyr Firedancer I've always loved these card, since G and U devotion sees play online I like running things which just gives those decks the bird (granted my SB'ing for these MU are difficult to gasps so just watch the videos when I release them).

Reprisal BW and Junk are hard MUs, Reprisal is good against them. . . . .

[
b]NOTES for fellow online players:[/b]
Banishing Light are now SELLING for 1.6

I brought them for >1 I highly recommend either buying them NOW or waiting for 1-2 week then they WILL drop in price
Eidolon Of The Great Revel I brought for 2 this morning, they 3 now..... same as with light this card SHOULD drop in price.

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 5:33 am**

Wow those three color decks mana bases.......

Posted: **Sun May 11, 2014 6:13 am**

Holy Christ are SCG's bad.

Dies to Removal

[Primer] Boros Burn