Dies to Removal

Good article.

I won't be adding to this thread anymore, may be back after rotation.

That's a shame. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions over the months, may you continue to win with whatever deck (and format) you choose to play in!

Question for those running Banishing Light over a Chained to the Rocks in the main, or in the whole 75:
What non-creatures do you find yourself casting it on that you'd consider "must answer?"

I pretty much only found myself using it against the early Planeswalkers like Domri but then it takes up my whole turn which is particularly bad if I haven't landed a creature yet.

I like it because it means we have one less dead card against control and allows us to hit connections not that its all the relevant anyway. I jsut like having a one of catch all answer to anything. I was finding myself almost always having a chained to the rocks against control decks in my opening hand.

Good article.

I won't be adding to this thread anymore, may be back after rotation.

That's too bad, man. Good luck and have fun with whatever you are doing instead. Thanks for giving boros burn the spark jolt it needed.

http://www.mtgcanada.com/standard/learn ... -standard/

I get the point on mono black and you're probably right.

I also understand the leveling argument in the mirror, but I like chain in case they don't board phoenix out. I don't think most people aren't as smart as you

Sweet double negative you snuck in there

http://www.mtgcanada.com/standard/learn ... -standard/

In regards with your SB guide

vs Bx Devotion:
I'll argue that on the play Firedrinker Satyr is very strong - on the draw however I'll rather have the Boros Charm because you just set yourself up for painful tempo plays like: you T1 FDS him T2 Cure, DF, Doom Blade etc... etc....

vs Mirror:
This is a next leveling nightmare if they board out creatures and go for the T//T route, I think I'll take 2x Shock (shock hits Revel on T2 which is rather important) over
2x Chains most of the time.

I like the rest

Excellent article, Keith!

My experience with boarding in just a few creatures vs. Black Devo has been exactly what MDU describes. Unless you draw it t1 on the play, it usually dies before getting damage in. I'm much more comfortable with Eidolon backed up by burn, especially since Staff of Death Magus isn't as good in BG as it was in Mono Black.

I'm curious to hear how further Eidolon testing will go for you.

How's that ricochet working out for you? Is that a concession to the mirror picking up after SCG? It seems really bad everywhere else.

Exactly as you say, Elricity. It's only for the mirror where it's usually GG if you can draw it and have 4 lands. Not everyone is as gifted as Z when it comes to playing mirror matches, so a little help doesn't hurt ... and I do indeed expect the deck to pick up online after SCG Knoxville.

EDIT: I have tried to SB Ricochet in once vs Control, copied a Revelation instead of Skullcracking it and got promptly blown out. Never again

Cheers gents.

I think Zem is focussing in Modern and Limited.

I'm trying to play more limited too. Have the chance to play standard or modern tomorrow in a GPT. I want to play standard to maximize my chances, but I don't think I can get a ride. The store doing modern is walkable... then again, all my fetches are on loan currently, so maybe I can't play modern either lol.

@Lightning_Dolt aka J_S: Have you ever thought about playing online? If your good (I'm fairly sure you are) you can play completely for free (even at a profit) while getting that high level of competition we all enjoy.
@Those who are running Eidolon of the Great Revel over Young Pyromancer MD:

How many MUs is Eidolon of the Great Revel truly better then Young Pyromancer?

Based on my experience with him outside the Control, Hexproof and arguably the mirror I generally prefer Young Pyromancer unless I'm ahead or dead even with some kind of lifegain card in hands (spark trooper or WLH), what are your thoughts on this guys?

- - - -

Here is the current list I'm running:

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3
Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence

Creatures 08
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Exile 03
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light

Burn 26
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Searing Blood

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Fated Conflagration
1 Reprisal[/deck]

I've taken three SE events with it so far, so I'm liking it.

Thanks for all your help Zem. Are you going to post in the limited board now?

Has everyone abandoned the Flames of the Firebrand route?

Nope, Elricity is still on Flames of the Firebrand which is fine since it can sweep 0/1 decks and kill x/3 creatures.

That said if your running FDS your doing yourself a disfavor not attempting that Blood + FDS dancer blowout.

Pretty much this. My last DE run I was running flames and had two Dancers in the board because...I just didn't have much else I wanted to put in the sideboard. Never drew them. But yes, if I try the main eidolon/side
dancer for the combo and to shorten the clock.

@MDU: Currently unemployed, so have to wait. I'm hoping to jump in when the fall set is released. That is of course, unless I find a job that prevents me from playing paper, then I'll have the cash and reason for making the switch earlier.

@ YP$ vs EGR: I like that you can just throw EGR down to two and it fundamentally changes the game. Our deck can use more good T2 plays. With YP$ you typically wait until three or four so you can hold a spell up. It's also pretty bad against anything with Jace. YP$ is better vs Black (but it's close) and Monsters, EGR is better vs control and mirror. The two cards have similar power levels, but different strengths VS aggro. It reminds me a lot of playing with manabarbs to be honest.

Hopping aboard the burn train!!! Been doing a LOT of catching up...

Must have missed when you guys moved away from Assemble the Legion? Now that black has Golgari Charm?

Welcome back, dpaine. Awesome to have you around! Yes, Assemble was kind of given up early... Now we realize BG isn't as dominant as we expected, but also Eidolon of the Great Revel (MD or SB) does quite a nice job vs Black Devo. The verdict is certainly not out yet on that card

I am heavily considering going the assemble rout tommorow, alot of players u feel with be on bg or mono black and assemble is just one of those cards were its like got the charm?? Nope well gusse you lose.

I am heavily considering going the assemble rout tommorow, alot of players u feel with be on bg or mono black and assemble is just one of those cards were its like got the charm?? Nope well gusse you lose.

My thought process on the card is much like dauntless268 we have better answers now with JOU which may a good MU even better so I rather not dedicate space on cards which I view as exceptionally narrow.

That said Bx Devotion traditional makes takes up at least 20% of the meta game (online anyways) so suring up those doesn't hurt......

Todd Anderson plays RW Burn on SCG here

Well worth a watch if you have Premium. Thanks dauntless for bringing this to my attention!

Todd Anderson plays RW Burn on SCG here

Well worth a watch if you have Premium. Thanks dauntless for bringing this to my attention!

IDK I think it would be rather painful to watch (at least for me, we're 3-1 in record except he beat me when it counted because I scrubbed out and made a mistake (during a MOCS)), I think I'll get more out of watching a random playing burn in a DE on MODO or one of you guys (like Elricity go watch his youtube videos) or (J_S: his live videos when they're up), Montu, lazerburn and Nerboywonder also produce wonderful youtube videos as well .

P.S. Any of you youtube uploaders making money from your Adds?

I agree that you may not get much from it MDU He doesn't know the deck and makes mistakes but his commentary is interesting, second only to Zem's IMHO. I got lots from watching him

I've also watched everyone elses

Seriously... WHEN ARE THE VIDEOS GOING UP!!! lol

Won my GPT today! 2 byes for Chicago!

Well done Keith!! Which list?

What do you guys think of mana confluence? Im thinking of selling mine off when I get the chance because im facing an incredible amount of aggro on modo but I dont want to have too many tapped sources for eidolon on turn two.

Won my GPT today! 2 byes for Chicago!

Well done

Congrats on the GPT win.

Won my GPT today! 2 byes for Chicago!

AWESOME job dude! Way to represent the

Well done Keith!! Which list?

75 from my article.

What do you guys think of mana confluence? Im thinking of selling mine off when I get the chance because im facing an incredible amount of aggro on modo but I dont want to have too many tapped sources for eidolon on turn two.

it's a necessary evil.

States was today....I learned two things....Eidolon really lets you win games you had no business winning. And always double check your opponents life total before scooping....Ugg I made the worst misplay ever against hexproof in the deciding game, I skull cracked when he was at five life with Eidolon in play then he cast Boris charm for double strike in response to give his dude lethal double strike. And somehow I forgot to account for the skullcrack.......I realized it after I scooped I never let skullcracl resolve.....I felt fucking awful I gusse I was tired or fatigued or something I just completely forgot I had cast skullcrack....awkward.

Rough

I lost a game like that at a GP where my opponent tested me just to see if I'd remember my trigger. I didn't and he won the match despite being dead on board.

I dropped after that I was on tilt to bad I could of tried for top 16. I was just to pissed at myself. I had the match vs the hardest match up in the room and handed him the win. I never have made a worse misplay then that one. My other loss was to the mirror and they literally came down to who drew more boros charms and helixs literaly both games came down to the top deck for the last burn spell.

Why do we fall down, Master Wizard?

So we can get pissed and burn the peasants??

Um... sure.

And the thatched roof COTTAGES!

Arkansas states was today and I played MDU's list main except for 2 Temple of Silence instead of splitting between Silence and Malice, and 2 Mana Confluence instead of the Guidgates, and 3 Searing Blood, 3 Shock. Sideboard was 4 T // T, 4 Eidolon, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Chained, 1 Harness, 1 Fated, 1 Reprisal. I spent hours pondering on the SB.

I went 5-1-1 and squeaked into Top 8 (my tie breakers dropped hard after the last round) and was eliminated first round against a GW deck playing 4 Advent of the Wurm and a ton of other critters. Lost to two Wurm tokens game one and simply didn't draw enough answers game 3. I think I messed up a sequence of plays game 3 (in terms of removal used on what) but I'm unsure. He drew better over the match and I wasn't drawing answers...it happens. He was top seed in the tournament and I was surprised he hadn't been drummed out earlier he must have had easier matches than I had all
day. My only match loss was to Jund monsters and I had to mulligan to five game one and never saw a third land. The only other two game losses in the matches came from a Wr critter deck with the flash +2/+2 enchantment (Dictate of Heliod?) and one game to an earlier Jund monsters. The other three match ups were 2 Naya aggro and a Bg deck.

YP is better game one against everything I played, I never wished I had Eidolon instead. If I sided Eidolon in I would usually keep the YP as their value was indispensable in the matchups I played. Managed to Trouble for 7 one game it was nice. I hadn't played in about a month (damn college finals) before Thursday and I managed to play around five 8-man's online between Thursday and Friday. Thanks for the recent videos MDU your sequence of plays with YP were a nice refresher, I believe they helped today. Thanks to the rest of you as well this board is invaluable.

Lots of good results

@rage_jl: GW has gotten much harder with the improved manabase and Ajani Mentor of Heroes - its one of those MUs where you wish you has something which could quickly close the gameout like Harness by Force or StormBreath Dragon since sometimes they just place too many threats on board that we can't deal with (unless we have YP$ on the table).

Played SCG States today, ran with the YP deck and a somewhat unclearly constructed sideboard based on what I had played before and what I expected at the LGS hosting the event (fair amount of control and B/G Devotion)

[deck]
BURN
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Searing Blood
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

CREATURES
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

REMOVAL
1 Banishing Light
2 Chained to the Rocks

LAND
2 Mana Confluence
2 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry

SIDEBOARD
2 Banishing Light
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Act of Treason
1 Harness by Force
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
2 Reprisal
[/deck]

1 of the Act of Treason was because I only had a single Harness by Force on hand, and was too cheap to invest in another until I decided I was happy with the card

Round 1: R/W Burn semi-Mirror (win)
First round was semi-mirror match (I am on YP build he had an Eidolon of the Great Revel build). Opponent I recognized as an experienced control player but it was clear he had little experience piloting the RW Burn deck. In Game 2 he played EGR when life totals were at 11 and 7 in his favor, but let me Helix in response. After that he pretty much burned himself out playing the Ram and some other burn spells. He seemed surprised when he got to 2 life all of a sudden and I just won

Sideboarding
None - I had no cards for the mirror

Round 2: Junk Midrange (loss)
I had a lot of trouble here. Primeval Bounty was very tough. I got it to three games and still came close, but lost the match 1 spell away from the win.

Sideboarding
n+2 Reprisal
+4 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Banishing Light
-2 Searing Blood
-4 Shock
-2 Magma Jet

After game 2 I removed the Reprisal and went back to 2 Jets because I realized he didn't have that many big creature targets (except once they already got big and problematic in which case Banishing Light and Chained are already useful anyways).

I did make a mistake in game 3 where I let a Scavenging Ooze get out of burn range. Just totally bungled the play trying to sneak Mutavaults in for extra damage. That may well have cost me that game and the match, not sure though.

Round 3: W/B Midrange (win)
In the past this was a tough matchup for me but today I had no trouble. I suspect I just outdrew my opponent in both games. Game 2 was amusing in that I drew 2 hands, 4 Magma Jet, and a Warleader's Helix. Opponent's reaction to the reveal for Thoughtseize was great The Jets were just awesome as I won
in 5 turns including a scry in my Upkeep to dig for lethal Skullcrack.

Sideboarding
+2 Banishing Light
+2 Reprisal
+1 Act of Treason
+1 Harness by Force
-2 Searing Blood
-4 Shock

I never saw the Act or Harness so I guess the jury is out if I lke this or not, as this was one of the matchups I wanted to try it in.

Round 4: Jund Monsters (loss)
This one was also close, in game 3 I had to mulligan after opening hand was no land. Shuffle and drew these 6:

[cards]Mountain
Mutavault
Banishing Light
Chained to the Rocks
Chandra's Phoenix
Mizzium Mortars[/cards]

I thought for what felt like forever and decided that being able to cast only 1 spell (and a somewhat less important one at that) would put me so far behind especially if I never drew a white source. So I shuffled and drew these 5:

[cards]Mountain
Chained to the Rocks
Mizzium Mortars
Banishing Light
Chandra's Phoenix[/cards]

Ugh.
I kept not wanting to go to 4 and luckily drew a Temple and scry'd away a Helix to get to my third land. This game somehow ended up being competitive despite the bad draw. Opponent played Courser of Kruphix on 3 consecutive turns eating all of my removal and then went to Domi Rade. I decided to attack it with the Phoenix and I wonder if it cost me the match. I got opponent down to 7 before he beat me, and the 6 life there may have made a difference. On the other hand, opponent also drew 3 Stormbreath Dragon and well that's hard to beat regardless Still, I wonder if I should have kept the 6..

Sideboarding
+4 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Banishing Light
+2 Reprisal
-2 Searing Blood
-2 Magma Jet
-4 Shock

Round 4: Naya Hexproof (loss)
And here was the dreaded Naya Hexproof matchup. Game 1 mulligan to 6, I actually got him down to 4 becuase he never drew any of the Auras, but
I missed the topdeck opportunity for the win. This gave me some encouragement that maybe I had a chance. On the other hand, his deck basically performed as poorly as could be laying 2 Gladecover Scout and 2 Witchstalker and I still lost )

Sideboarding
+3 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Banishing Light
-2 Chained to the Rocks

Game 2 opponent played a turn 2 Voice of Resurgence. Ugh, I didn't see that in game 1 and had no exile effects now. So, I untap and shocked it and then shocked the token. Fine. His next turn, another Voice. I Jet it on my turn. His next turn, another Voice followed by Unflinching Courage. I scooped at this point as it was clear I could not win having emptied my hand. Not sure I approached that correctly but it just didn't work out.

After the match I wished I had boarded out Shock and Searing Blood for the Mizzium Mortars, and brought in 2 more Banishing Lights. Oh well.

[b:
2wo4i4ya]Round 6: 5 Color Control[/b]
Friendly, older opponent said he used to play a long time ago in college and just got back into the game recently. As the match proceeded I felt he was inexperienced in the matchup as it seemed like any of the tricks I pulled around Young Pyromancer and Warleader's Helix on his end of turn were not answered. Or maybe he just never had a counterspell in hand.

I won Game 1 surprisingly after opponent countered a Lightning Strike aimed at newly played Fleecemane Lion, which I thought was going to cost me the match. Fortunately I drew enough burn and YP tokens to effectively play around him.

Game 2 went long, due to a turn 2 Heroes' Reunion (!). Yeah, gaining 7 life on turn 2 pretty much seals the deal against this deck. I did get him down to 7 at one point but no lower and I scooped after the second Sphinx's Revelations that I couldn't answer.

Game 3 I drew 3 Boros Charm, Young Pyromancer, and lands to support it. That game was over on turn 4 after I
countered his Supreme Verdict making 3 Elemental tokens on board.

Sideboarding
-2 Magma Jet
-4 Shock
-2 Searing Blood
-2 Chained to the Rocks
+4 Mizzium Mortars
+2 Banishing Light
+2 Firedrinker Satyr

The mortars were because he played Caryatid and Blood Baron in game 1.

Overall
Match results 3-3

Game win % on play: 4/5 - 80% (only loss was the 3 Courser 3 Stormbreath game)
Game win % on draw: 4/11 - 35% (I lost all but 1 die roll today)
Overall game win%: 50%

Win% pre-board: 3/6 - 50%
Win% post-board: 5/10 - 50%

Mulliganed: 6/16 - 37.5% of games, win% 2/6 - 33% (both wins on mulligan to 6, 1 of 6 times I mulliganed to 5)

The Junk match could have been won perhaps, tough decisions in there and being 1 spell away makes me wonder,
especially given a crucial mistake
The Jund Monsters match also could have been won, though it is hard to beat 3 Courser and 3 Stormbreath in the same game...
The Hexproof match, well, GG

I mostly like this build of the 60 with 4 Shock, 2 Searing Blood, 2 Chained to the Rocks, 1 [card[Banishing Light[/card], 6 Scrylands, and 2 Mana Confluence. The pain from those lands rarely screwed me and in at least one matchup allowed me to topdeck a land and cast a crucial white spell. I am kind of inclined to try dumping 2 Searing Blood for 2 Flames of the Firebrand as in so many match ups the Searing Blood can be dead.

The sideboard however I am unsettled on. If Hexproof is still a thing then Anger of the Gods may
be something to try. The Reprisal is probably too reactive. The extra Banishing Light may just need to be [card]Wear // Tear[/card] - on 2 different occasions I used BL on an opponent's enchantment, and he hit it with Abrupt Decay or a BL of his own. In those cases Wear // Tear would have been more effective.

Did not face any Black devotion variants, or the Trostani deck I was hearing about all day which I bet would be challenging for me (reusable lifegain and ability to pop out big creatures at will is tough). Did not face Monoblue, UW Control, or Esper Control as expected. So maybe the meta at the store is changing more than I thought...

Overall I feel somewhat uneasy about how well this deck is positioned for the meta going into the summer. More playtesting is needed for sure. Still, it's a fun and challenging deck to play.

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=228928#p228928:1qwb8io5]rage_jl » Sat May 17, 2014 10:52 pm[/url:1qwb8io5]":1qwb8io5]Arkansas states was today and I played MDU's list main except for 2 Temple of Silence instead of splitting between Silence and Malice, and 2 Mana Confluence instead of the Guidgates, and 3 Searing Blood, 3 Shock. Sideboard was 4 T // T, 4 Eidolon, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 2 Chained, 1 Harness, 1 Fated, 1 Reprisal. I spent hours pondering on the SB.[/quote:1qwb8io5]

I had the same experience. Having not played much since JOU rotated in, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Going to need to do more testing here. I still have never tried the [card:1qwb8io5]Toil // Trouble[/card:1qwb8io5] in sideboard, opting for the [card:1qwb8io5]Firedrinker Satyr[/card:1qwb8io5] instead. Maybe time to give that another look.

I personally like the T \\ T option as it gave me something for the mirror as well as I expected a few inexperienced pilots to play it because of Knoxville. There was a couple of these but I never had the opportunity to play them. I also like T // T's versatility and it only comes in on the play against a few decks.

Took the following list to FNM:

[deck]
Creatures:
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments:
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants and Sorceries:
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Searing Blood

Lands:
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Dictate of the Twin Gods
2 Harness by Force
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Wear // Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

Instead of a match report I'm just going to give an account of how the cards performed for me and my thoughts about some cards that have recently been discussed.

For starters, I'm extremely happy with this 75. Dictate I still need to test out more, but
the other 73 cards are staying for now. I definitely prefer YP in the main over Eidolon. Eidolon seems to be a high variance card in the matchups where it doesn't just win you the game, while YP is consistently one of the most powerful cards in the deck and a tool I always want access to. Young Pyro let me beat an Obzedat, Desecration Demon, and Blood Baron which were all on my opponent's side of the board at the same time. I actually won that match via the next card I want to talk about, Dictate of the Twin Gods.

I did some small amount of testing against MB (the shell I have the card in the board for) before FNM and the card didn't do much. I usually had it in hand when I had the game wrapped up, but Assemble would have been just as awkward in those situations. Dictate actually won me a match at one point during the night, however. When the board was stalled out between my infinite pyro tokens and my opponent's big, black fatties, I ripped a dictate off the top. With my opponent at 13, I
looked at my board and my hand, and Dictate gave me more than enough damage to finish off my opponent. What this card does is raise the power level of all the cards in our deck right before a key turn, allowing us to kill our opponent with a burst of damage or finish off a game that's going long. It also gives our burn the power it needs to kill someone through lifegain. While, I definitely need to test the card out more, it seems to do what I need it to do.

I know I said I prefer YP in the main, but I def want 4 Eidolon in the 75. Eidolon is a great card against control that maintains relevance in the face of creatures and Blind Obedience, but that's not the best part about the card. Eidolon allows us to completely destroy naya hexproof, a matchup we previously had zero business winning. I lost a Game 1 to a T2 Witchstalker, T3 Unflinching courage and never stood a chance. Game 2 I played a T2 and a T3 Eidolon. Combined with a YP, I had a ton of power on the board and every card my opponent
played clocked him for chunks of his life total. By the time he was ready to play a 3 mana lifelink enchantment, he was just dead to Eidolon triggers. Game 3 I played another T2 Eidolon but had no friends to back it up. Turns out one Eidolon is enough, as by the time my opponent played a Gift of Orzhova, he was dead to a Lightning Strike and the Eidolon trigger. In short, Eidolon 100% wrecks Naya hexproof.

I see some talk about Toil // Trouble against control, and I just don't know why anyone would run that card when they could run Eidolon instead. TT is inconsistent at best, and in the mirror it exposes you to a Warleader's Helix. The only tech I think really worth siding in the mirror is Peak Eruption, but that's unbelievably narrow. Eidolon is a great card that just blows matchups wide open and I would recommend trying it out.

So I took Keiths list to the Starcity Games Connecticut States.

Basically first time playing with this deck but I made the Top8! Deck was super fun to play.

Went 4-1-1 into top8.

Here is the breakdown

Round 1- 2-0 win vs Jund Monsters
Round 2 - 2-0 win vs Naya Monsters
Round 3 - 2-0 win vs BUG Midrange
Round 4 - 2-1 Loss vs Mirror match
Round 5 - 2-0 win vs Mirror match
Round 6 - Draw intp top8

Top8

Had some mana issues n lost to B/g devotion(typical list).

Got an AWESOME playmat tho.


Deck was hella fun to play and I did pretty good for my first time with it. Def playing this the rest of the season. Can't wait to contribute more to this thread!!

ThinK i want YP$ over Eielodon persoanlly, but I did see EotGR very very little..did not see one until round 4.