Dies to Removal

Why did you assume it was Town motivated, exactly?

Because I can't think of anything the scum would gain by asking for it. And from your explanation it benefits the town.

I'm not saying that you are town because of it(WIFOM?), but that it was town motivated because it harms scum without harming the town.

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vote imopen2

I don't have much of a case, but I fingered him before and his recent posts haven't been substantial enough for me to think he's town.

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I'm planning to do a reread when I have a little more time to come up with some updated opinions.

I'd hit it.

The only reason I've written off Iso so far is because he softclaimed a PR, probably governor... which actually IS an alignment-neutral power role, unlike a double-voter. Probably not coincidence that Iso projects his role's orientation onto Suga when he says "wouldn't surprise me if Dan put a scum double-voter in this game." I haven't really wanted to chase this angle because test-lynching PRs is inefficient, especially D1; bullets test claims without wasting rope.

[quote="Iso » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:44 pm"]@Manders: But the question was of why YOU voted, which didn't occur until after that. And yeah, you kinda do need me if you expect to lynch Kaze.[/quote:
2mb19obx]

There's also some "swing" symmetry to a scum governor / town doublevote pair. We can talk about what swinginess in game theory means later if anyone is curious.

I found a replacement of AWESOME caliber.

The Miz?

Want to like Spammy's post so badly...

I found a replacement of AWESOME caliber.

MS or MTGS?

Oh, suspense.

Hi Gammagooey, who are you?

/vote Stardust

Strongest scum read I have, followed by fate, whom has largely barnacled onto Nuwen, and pretty much does whatever she does.

Gamma I'm sorry I didn't ask for this

MS replacement it is.

Ohai, Gamma.

G_R and Stardust are scum. You should lynch them with me.

/vote Stardust

Strongest scum read I have, followed by fate, whom has largely barnacled onto Nuwen, and pretty much does whatever she does.

That's because Fate is pussywhipped.

All my reads have been pretty independent of nuwens. Let's see you point a single instance of me sheeping onto her for any read.


Seriously, I'm waiting

@Lord: Dude from MS that plays with nuwen and fate a lot

unless you mean rolewise in which case psssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

read the first few pages and gonna vote kaze for reasons that have a fairly high likelihood of not being relevant at all by the time i finish reading the thread (which isn't happening until tomorrow or saturday)

so yep
Vote:Kaze

All my reads have been pretty independent of nuwens. Let's see you point a single instance of me sheeping onto her for any read.


Seriously, I'm waiting

This directed at me? Because the pussywhipped comment was in jest.

Though you two are a bit too chummy for my liking. But you already know that.

Hello, new friend. And welcome to our small (but growing) community.

/DTR-PR post

Welcome to the game, GG!

Nuwen, I've never seen a scum governor before, and in my mind it seems pretty unbalanced. Controlling the town's lynch not only gives the scum an extra kill, but removes the town's only method of killing. I don't want to get into a huge debate with you since we don't even know if there is a governor in this game (like Manders pointed out, Iso likes to breadcrumb random things), but I wanted to go on record now so that if I'm lynched or killed, you guys have some voice telling you not to lynch the governor later.

I have reason to believe there is no govenor in this game. Can't say much more than that at this point...

Welcome to the game, GG!

Nuwen, I've never seen a scum governor before, and in my mind it seems pretty unbalanced. Controlling the town's lynch not only gives the scum an extra kill, but removes the town's only method of killing. I don't want to get into a huge debate with you since we don't even know if there is a governor in this game (like Manders pointed out, Iso likes to breadcrumb random things), but I wanted to go on record now so that if I'm lynched or killed, you guys have some voice telling you not to lynch the governor later.

What you did there... I see it.

All my reads have been pretty independent of nuwens. Let's see you point a single instance of me sheeping onto her for any read.


Seriously, I'm waiting

This directed at me? Because the pussywhipped comment was in jest.

Though you two are a bit too chummy for my liking. But you already know that.

was directed at Mcdonald

skimmed most of the game, not actually going through those quote walls right now because they look pretty painful to sift through

is the conversation thats happening really role speculation on something that hasn't even been explicitly claimed yet? Because that seems not actually worth caring about right now at all.

Kaze continued to look real bad early game but whichever of fate/nuwen brought up him attacking people defending him might have a point so i need to look at that later

stardust doesn't look like an awful lynch so if kaze looks town after reading stuff i'll probably jump on that

aaand fate's pretty right about nuwen being probtown this game.

I am an awful lynch. Lord McD's is so far the only person to actually put forward something against me that makes sense. That was an intentional play on my part, but I hope I didn't overestimate my town credit at the time because that's a pretty shitty way to get lynched. There were reasons though.

I am an awful lynch. Lord McD's is so far the only person to actually put forward something against me that makes sense. That was an intentional play on my part, but I hope I didn't overestimate my town credit at the time because that's a pretty shitty way to get lynched. There were reasons though.

"omg guize dont lynch me plz lordMcD made a good point against me but i meant to do that honest D:"

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

G_R is currently voting for Stardust, was the first unprovoked vote for Stardust.

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

G_R is currently voting for Stardust, was the first unprovoked vote for Stardust.

Your point?

Let me put it this way

You think both Stardust and G_R clicked on this thread and said "You know what would be a great plan right now, while this Kaze wagon is still alive... VOTING FOR MY SCUM PARTNER FOR NO REASON "

Cross-bussing as a kneejerk is just awful and not likely. At this point in the game, scum have EVERY incentive to create MORE wagons instead of jerking each other off with some silly cross-bussing gambit. People are tired of D1 and will be looking for closure, especially now that the replacement slot is filled. If scum occupy their votes with each other, it's that much easier for town to consolidate.

You realize that this looks like you just want to lynch whatever not-you thing ends up taking the limelight.

You make fair enough points, but I'm not convinced at least one of them isn't scum at this point.

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

It's interesting to me that you seem incapable of talking about me without also mentioning GR. Often scum will add one of their partners to a list of two or three to avoid being "wrong" too many times in a row. Your particular version of tunnelling here feels townie to me, but I really feel like you and GR have something going on.

Then again, on reread, maybe your tunnelling's not townie after all. You're a bit too happy about lynching me considering you're supposed to not be sure about my alignment.

I need to get time for a reread again.

Nevermind. I forgot that you chose to get on the GR wagon over mine. Hard to call that tunnelling when you're not even voting me. Maybe your heart's in the right place after all.

You guys are not even trying.

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

G_R is currently voting for Stardust, was the first unprovoked vote for Stardust.

Jesus people why haven't we banned Kaze yet?

What did you find scummy about that post, Col K?

The only thing I haven't liked about Nuwen is that she seems to fabricate or exaggerate certain points in her cases. Basically her entire initial case on me was fabricated, and that last bit with Iso, but given her towniness in other areas (and plenty of other good points elsewhere), I've been willing to assume she's just confused on those points (especially given her motivations at the time, though Iso's case was perhaps more shady).

Iso, you say she's
dragging the town around by the nose. I realise she's been trying to do that, with little success, but how does that make her scum? Town need to convince people to join wagons too, and acting sure of a read is certainly not a scummy thing to do.

I realize that, but once we have a body, we have more to analyze. Nuwen is obfuscating that process by preventing us from getting the information we need and is instead getting information she wants - role info and reactions to pressure, which can indicate PR or not - and then leaving it at that. Would you rather run a successful wagon on a vanilla or a PR if you were scum? The latter makes you look a LOT worse.

Maybe I'm being dense, but how is she preventing us from getting information?

Just to make sure I understand the rest, you're saying that she's pushing these wagons to get reactions in an attempt to out the PR's (which is why she'd be jumping around and backtracking a bit - to get more
reactions). Based on those reactions, you think she'll ultimately try to run up a wagon on someone she thinks is vanilla and then target a PR lead with the night kill. Is that what you're saying?

She prevents us information through lack of a flip on her targets.

And yes, that's what I'm saying.

The only thing I haven't liked about Nuwen is that she seems to fabricate or exaggerate certain points in her cases. Basically her entire initial case on me was fabricated, and that last bit with Iso, but given her
towniness in other areas (and plenty of other good points elsewhere), I've been willing to assume she's just confused on those points (especially given her motivations at the time, though Iso's case was perhaps more shady).

Iso, you say she's dragging the town around by the nose. I realise she's been trying to do that, with little success, but how does that make her scum? Town need to convince people to join wagons too, and acting sure of a read is certainly not a scummy thing to do.

I realize that, but once we have a body, we have more to analyze. Nuwen is obfuscating that process by preventing us from getting the information we need and is instead getting information she wants - role info and reactions to pressure, which can indicate PR or not - and then leaving it at that. Would you rather run a successful wagon on a vanilla or a PR if you were scum? The latter makes you look a LOT worse.

Gosh, I don't see this. We've only got one
confirmed PR and Nuwen wasn't on Suga's wagon when he revealed his role. We've got a few crumbs from some people, but it seems incredibly farfetched that Nuwen is trying to differentiate between PRs and vanillas on day 1 just to push a lynch on the latter and glean information from the former.

How is that far-fetched? It's good scum play if you don't get called out for it, or can seem townie in the process.

Iso's doing far more dirt kicking than scumhunting this game. He even raises the unlikely possibility that Suga could actually be a scum double voter right when Suga's wagon was breaking up. He's actively trying to make as many people look scummy as possible.

nDoublevoter is typically a town power but we don't know what the setup is like. I'd say there's a fair chance dan wouldn't be opposed to including a scum doublevoter in this game.

And now you're fishing me because my reason for believing that relates directly to my role.

I have reason to believe there is no govenor in this game. Can't say much more than that at this point...

I have reason to believe you're retarded.

Let me put it this way

You think both Stardust and G_R clicked on this thread and said "You know what would be a great plan right now, while this Kaze wagon is still alive... VOTING FOR MY SCUM PARTNER FOR NO
REASON "

Cross-bussing as a kneejerk is just awful and not likely. At this point in the game, scum have EVERY incentive to create MORE wagons instead of jerking each other off with some silly cross-bussing gambit. People are tired of D1 and will be looking for closure, especially now that the replacement slot is filled. If scum occupy their votes with each other, it's that much easier for town to consolidate.

You realize that this looks like you just want to lynch whatever not-you thing ends up taking the limelight.

We just disagree on everything theory-wise, don't we? Creating a scum-counterwagon while you're scum looks magnificent for either player's credibility once one of them flips. Town counterwagons are FAR more suspect.

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

G_R is currently voting for Stardust, was the first unprovoked vote for Stardust.

Jesus people why haven't we banned Kaze yet?

Banned? What rule did I break?

I have reason to believe you're retarded.

Ok well I don't know for sure but i'm also not sure if knowing there is a governor or not helps us. and how would you being a governor make you know anything about suga's double voter role? is there something i'm missing here?

I have reason to believe you're retarded.

Ok well I don't know for sure but i'm also not sure if knowing there is a governor or not helps us. and how would you being a governor make you know anything about suga's double voter role? is there something i'm missing here?

YES I'M THE GODDAMN GOVERNOR. JFC people.

It puts a lot of lynch control in the town's hands. Either dan wanted to break the norm by giving the scum a doublevoter or we're in for a hell of a Night.

Stardust, I'll make you a deal. Tell me if your scumpartner G_R has a power and I'll give you hugs. Sound good? <3

G_R is currently voting for Stardust, was the first unprovoked vote for Stardust.

Jesus people why haven't
we banned Kaze yet?

Banned? What rule did I break?

lol nvm I'm obsessed with bannings

I have reason to believe you're retarded.

Ok well I don't know for sure but i'm also not sure if knowing there is a governor or not helps us. and how would you being a governor make you know anything about suga's double voter role? is there something i'm missing here?

YES I'M THE GODDAMN GOVERNOR. JFC people.

It puts a
lot of lynch control in the town's hands. Either dan wanted to break the norm by giving the scum a doublevoter or we're in for a hell of a Night.

I understood you were saying you were the govenor. What I don't understand is why that makes suga more likely a scum double voter...from what I'm reading about the govenor role it is way more powerful as a scum role