Dies to Removal

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:16 am**

I don't like Chandra against Mono U very much.

And keeping in all 4 Helix against UW while cutting all Shocj...I shouldn't need to explain why that's not a good idea.

Is it because 2+ Chandra raises your curve, the life total isn't super relevant, or because by T4 you need to think about holding up / bluffing skullcrack so you can't tap out? Those are the reasons that come to my mind, but if you have more, I'd be interested in hearing them. I'm open to any and all advice, since I think I have to be doing something incorrectly in that match up.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:17 am**

well no uw player should be using fiendslayer paladin so there is no advice to give you except stop playing with such niche metagamers

or don't play a deck that auto loses to fiendslayer paladins

Can't help what people bring to the store.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:18 am**

he said mono u

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:18 am**

well no uw player should be using fiendslayer paladin so there is no advice to give you except stop playing with such niche metagamers

or don't play a deck that auto loses to fiendslayer paladins
Can't help what people bring to the store.

you can help what you bring

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:18 am**

well no uw player should be using fiendslayer paladin so there is no advice to give you except stop playing with such niche metagamers

or don't play a deck that auto loses to fiendslayer paladins

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:21 am**

well no uw player should be using fiendslayer paladin so there is no advice to give you except stop playing with such niche metagamers

or don't play a deck that auto loses to fiendslayer paladins
Can't help what people bring to the store.
you can help what you bring

I'm trying to adapt. Open to advice.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:26 am**

I don't like Chandra against Mono U very much.

And keeping in all 4 Helix against UW while cutting all Shocj...I shouldn't need to explain why that's not a good idea.
Is it because 2+ Chandra raises your curve, the life total isn't super relevant, or because by T4 you need to think about holding up / bluffing skullcrack so you can't tap out? Those are the reasons that come to my mind, but if you have more, I'd be interested in hearing them. I'm open to any and all advice, since I think I have to be doing something incorrectly in that match up.

All tgat,
but also what interacts better with YP, Phoenix and Flamespeaker? Shock or Helix?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:29 am**

That makes sense too. Are you testing Flamespeaker yourself? Liking it?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:31 am**

well i love brimaz but he isn't gonna beat the deck that is using fiendslayer against you, he will just beat fiendslayer

glare is a bit too reactive for me, you may as well use banishing light at that point and just target everything instead of only white stuff, all while encouraging your opponent to tap out for dspheres targeting banishing light. allow your opponent to make play mistakes.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:46 am**

I love this guy.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:13 am**

I had come to the same conclusion on Banishing Light vs Glare.

I kept Helices in for a bad reason and that's how I used them (to kill Nyx-Fleece Ram after it blocked a Flamespeaker/other guy) but Shocks wouldn't have helped...I also did 8 to the face with 2 of them, which would have taken 4 Shocks. Shock just isn't great vs control, but I do know your argument against Helix. Anyway, I think I need more sideboard cards for UW Control if it becomes more popular than the other control decks. I was very happy with Eidolon of the Great Revel in that spot, and if either Flamespeaker or Reckoner don't work out, I could definitely see boarding 3-4 of that card (probably 4).

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:45 am**

Shock is not a bad card to draw against UW control. You may not want to see more than 2 but it has as lot of value since it just costs [mana]R[/mana].

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:52 am**

well no uw player should be using fiendslayer paladin so there is no advice to give you except stop playing with such niche metagamers

or don't play a deck that auto loses to fiendslayer paladins
Can't help what people bring to the store.[/quote:
k6qzc3vi]

you can help what you bring
I'm trying to adapt. Open to advice.
Why use ash zealot sideboard if your meta is paladin heavy? The card is still decent.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:53 am**

Yeah is rather 3 shock, 1 wlh.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:00 am**

Pretty much. Seeing 2 WHL early against UW is just painful.

So I've been screwing around with Flamespeaker again but I think MDU still ended up being right that because it doesn't help vs monsters or UWx control, which are our hardest matchups, there's just no room for the card unless you're in a very unbalanced meta. I'd like it to be good against UW but there's too many things that need to go your way for it to happen.

Still haven't managed to see it against burn and I was boarding in 4 just for testing purposes. I should try some cheater games there.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:37 am**

brainsick: I tried bringing him against Junk constellation game 3 after getting smited by blood baron game 2. My thinking was at least I can block and after firststrike damage kill the fucker off. This was after I was a dolt and brought in reckoners game 2 and got triple trigger doomwake giant to oblivion. he seemed okay there. The other matchups I played that day were Esper round 1. He doesn't seem appropriate there. Monsters round 2- seems like a reckoner m/u. Round 4 was jund monsters as well, reckoner m/u. Jund monsters is everywhere on mtgo right now. The m/u can go either way. I do like that they have removal which can sometimes be a dead card in their hand. Next time I play the deck I think I will go down one chained to 3 and possibly add another mortar maindeck. mortars is too good not to play with. I love flamespeaker on paper and will continue to try him in the board, but RW burn may not be his home. I am
trying to finalize what the hell I will be playing in Chicago anyway.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:20 pm**

Brimaz surprises the hell out of Monsters (Jund or GR or Gxx). If you wait to play him until you're both more or less playing off the top for real threats or he's wasted his removal on your phoenixes and YP. EotGR is better against UW if you can't straight outplay them but then you run into conflict with YP which I don't like. Toil//Trouble is still one of my favorites against them if you don't want to go with the older strategies of straight aggroing them (I also like it on the play against Bx). I tried glare myself and really hated it, then tried again after losing to Elspeth a couple of times and learned to hate it again. Fated is a more versatile card for PW's in my opinion but I hate it against UW. If you don't have them on the ropes when they feel safe dropping a Elspeth you may have lost already, cross your fingers for a top deck I suppose.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:46 pm**

I would say that for discussions sake Jund should considered the only worthwhile variant of monsters, and Brimaz doesn't seem great there (I used to side him myself vs Monsters as a UW player and it was okay, not great). I would try Harness by Force and Fated Conflag.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:50 pm**

bear in mind I've never played burn once so these are just offhand suggestions

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:04 pm**

harness would have won my mu with junk constellation easily. There should be at least one or two in board.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:24 pm**

As far as an edge against UW goes, I find the matchups you lose when playing Burn are the ones where you don't get a hand filled with enough early action to apply real pressure in a timely fashion.

To remedy this I played 4 Eidolon and 4 Toil // Trouble which basically filled my deck so full of cards that just it abused UW's crappy early game so hard it was nigh impossible for me not to draw enough early pressure to win the game pretty handily. The only problem is this fills a lot of your SB.

I maindecked EotGR for an event at my store because the meta was really soft to it which made playing 4 Eidolon and 4 T//T a breeze, but idk how you would fit such a package in the board of the YP$ version. The problem is there aren't any cards that are good against Monsters and UWx that help us burn down UW in the early game.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:43 pm**

Considering playing this board in a YP$ List

[deck]
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Keening Apparition
1 Wear // Tear
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Banishing Light
1 Blind Obedience
2 Reprisal
[/deck]

Against creature decks I play hard control and against control decks I can bring in Eidolon as a must-answer card, Keening Apparition as a proactive version of a reactive effect, and Chandra for card advantage.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:48 pm**

Me likey eidolon

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:19 pm**

Me likey breadsticks, me likey breadsticks.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:31 pm**

Brimaz is terrible against Jund Monsters. That's the last card I'd want to bring in as the burn deck, and a card I'd love to see postboard as the Jund deck. Even as GR I'd be happy to see my burn opponent playing it instead of cards that actually do things against me.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:36 pm**

I am curious as to what everyone's meta looks like. I have remained on the old Eidolon deck with Firedancers pre-boarded in because my area is very aggro heavy. We have a lot of GW/Naya, one or two mono-black aggro, a Monsters player or two, and only one UW. Since our deck is so meta-dependent, I would like to get an idea about the environments where these decisions are being made.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:44 pm**

My LGS is UW, MB, and Dredge heavy, so I maindeck Eidolon when I play there. The games are hilariously easy.

I'm expecting to play against everything at an SCG Open this weekend, so my recent posts have that in mind. I particularly expect to play against monsters because they seem to be popular at these things.

I'm really warming up to the last SB I posted as it lets me bring in 7-8 cards for almost every matchup against the top decks of the format.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:13 pm**

Brainslick post the MD you plan on running along with that SB please

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:15 pm**

[deck]
Creatures
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Other Spells
4 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
8 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence

Sideboard
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Keening Apparition
1 Wear // Tear
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Banishing Light
1 Blind Obedience
2 Reprisal
[/deck]

EDIT: Added the SB cuz why make people look at two posts

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:17 pm**

I don't like running 2 Mana confluence but the Sideboard is a strain on the mana. Maybe I shouldn't run Apparition to make having white on T2 less necessary.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:39 pm**

I would run the 4th mutavault over the 2nd mana confluence. Or a 3rd guildgate/temple of silence. Basically I want 4 mutavaults (they are the nuts). I'd probably exchange 1 chained for the 1 BL main (been running with this config for multiple events and was always fine with it).

How do you plan on SBing for BG Devo?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:46 pm**

+2 Chandra, +3 Eidolon, +2 Reprisal, +1 BL

-4 Shock, -4 Boros Charm

I also want 4 Mutavaults and it pains me to not run 4. The problem is that I want the ability to cast Keening Apparition and Eidolon on Turn 2. 20 Red sources are preferred for Eidolon and you need one of them to come into play untapped. 12 white sources is kind of sketchy for T2 Apparition, but I'm only playing 2 so it should work out. The 2nd Mana Confluence really enables me to have those sources on curve. The only thing I would consider swapping it for is another RW source but the only option left is Guildgate and I really want to be able to play a T2 Eidolon, as that's a very powerful T2 play in the matchups you bring him in.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:47 pm**

The other option is to switch Banishing Light for a mutavault in the SB, but the 1-of seems pretty nice.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:50 pm**

T2 Apparition is only the nuts in the Hexproof matchups...vs control any other 2 drop on turn 2 is good.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:07 pm**

The thing I don't want to run into against control is having an apparition stranded in hand on turn 2 without another 2 drop.

As a matter of preference I like my manabases to be less powerful if it means I can more consistently cast my cards when I want to cast them. If you wanted to play the 4th mutavault I certainly wouldn't blame you.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:12 pm**

I think I'd rather jam every other creature on turn 2 against control. Are you going to mull hands that contain NO two drop?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:50 pm**

Can someone explain all the reprisals? It's cheap, which is a bonus but it tends to hit only one major creature in each of the decks and more importantly, misses one in each of the decks. I haven't liked it. I have been liking fated though if I'm facing a lot of monsters or BW.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:54 pm**

Reprisal was brought up to deal with things like Obzedat, Desecration Demon, and Polukranos. Several of us were running into problems with our Chains getting removed and needed something instant speed to kill the big ghost. The fact that it misses Stormbreath Dragon and Blood Baron is probably why it hasn't seen more play. I liked Fated but it felt too narrow since the only thing it killed that we couldn't already is Obzedat and maybe Polukranos.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:09 pm**

I'm aware what it was intended to kill. I guess what I'm asking is are those cards so threatening that it's worth having cards in your deck that can only target them at the expense of dealing with their other threats? Reprisal's only versatile use is against dredge.

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:28 pm**

Do you guys think we could get away with Viashino Firstblade again?

Dies to Removal

[Primer] Boros Burn