Dies to Removal

I knew the guardian was at l-2, but I voted anyways. On second thought I decided to unvote so we didn't have to worry about the guardian getting cut off.

That said: vote: the guardian

@Jones: Alright you cocky bastard. If your that sure I am scum, put your life where your mouth is: If I flip anything other than mafia, you die tomorrow. Oh, and unvote and hammer this if you don't mind.

What is the point of this? Is this intended to be anythig other than a symbolic gesture?

As for the second mafia: I am in between imopen and
GR. The former because he really has done very little for himself, barely reading, and not a single original thought, aside from barning the hot wagons at the time. GR on the other hand has done very little work on his own, and his posts read more like a commentator than an actual player. I wouldn't put it pass Ximbad to be scum, but those two are my top picks.

This is where I really start to feel confident about lynching the guardian. Earlier in this post he sets up the dichotomy of kpaca or manders. His only reasoning for picking those two people out is that they are good at mafia. This line of reasoning, while not strong, is extremely convenient if the guardian is scum. If he gets one of the two lynched he can still push for the other's lynching tomorrow. On top of that he compiles a list of possible scum that includes everyone. Either he's trying to say that he thinks phantasmo is town, or he doesn't want to contradict himself when he pushes for whatever lynch seems most likely
tomorrow.

This is in addition to this post:

Checking in.

I am fine with Ximbad, if no one wants to do Manders. There has been at least two votes thrown at him, and he doesn't even address them, only deciding in his last post to chase KJ.

Unvote MH, Vote Ximbad

You can see him leaving his options open here too.

He's too noncommittal and his reasoning when he does post it is weak.

I have no idea why people are unvoting the guardian.

I'll comment on this once I have responses from other players on the questions I asked.

However, I'll go ahead and spoil the ending. I'm pretty sure The Guardian is town and will not be voting for him Today.

Damn, and I'm out of town. There's still more to read, and I'll try to get to it as soon as I possibly can.

Sorry I was gone for so long, guys.

K

unvote

Explain this unvote, please.

So i could hammer him after his self vote.

Two things:

Jokes can be a scum tell.

How do you plan to kill me tomorrow if you're dead?

Are you so sure I intend to ignore you if he gets lynched and flips Town?

I don't.........care?

i'm willing to vote: the guardian in order to have him claim.

I would like to know your reasons for suspecting The Guardian.

For the record, I have my opinion of him pretty well locked in, and I'll reveal that once questions are answered.

I wanted to see what he would claim. That's what I said.

How many games have you played in?

Zero.

The leaving options open play is exactly what Manders is doing. Before we come to a lynch today, at least one that I'm on the train for, I will not settle for any less than a Manders' claim. She can't just hint at some lame power role and then leave it open like that. Not this late in the game, and I think that my case against her is easily strong enough to get two more people on this wagon.

There is no way I'm claiming a damn thing. Your case against me consists of circumstantial evidence and gut.

Everything The Guardian said about "Why are you still alive" syndrome is true. Not sure what else he wants me to say about that.

Obviously the thought that Kpaca is scum has crossed my mind because he is supposedly the best player and therefore the player I am most worrie about. He has gotten away with posting basically no theories just like me but he is given a pass, is it because he's black? my guess is people are scared that if they lynch the best player and he was town, that they would be responsible for sinking the ship. I'm happy to lynch someone to move the game along if that's what people want but I would rather not lynch a townie just for the sake of
progress

Kpaca gets away with it because we know he'll not do anything else. He's obstinate, and he sits on his thoughts until HE'S ready to provide them and not a second sooner.

But, no, I'm not scared of lynching kpaca because, if it gets to that point, I'll have plenty of evidence to make me believe he's scum. I don't regret lynching townies because I only vote to lynch if I believe someone is scum. If they weren't, that's not on me.

That leaves us with Manders, who never answered my question about her ability and now that PhantomS has asked for a claim, I'd like to hear that as well.

What question did I not answer?

I absolutely will not claim today, though.

K

unvote

Explain this unvote, please.

So i could hammer him after his self vote.

Ah, ok. Whatever you say.

Two things:

Jokes can be a scum tell.

How do you plan to kill me tomorrow if you're dead?

Are you so sure I intend to ignore you if he gets lynched and flips Town?

I don't.........care?

I didn't expect you would.

i'm willing to vote: the guardian in order to have him claim.

I would like to know your reasons for suspecting The Guardian.

For the record, I have my opinion of him pretty well locked in, and I'll reveal that once questions are answered.

I wanted to see what he would claim. That's what I said.

That is not a good reason to ask for a claim.
That's a scum answer.

How many games have you played in?

Zero.

This makes sense, though. My gut tells me you're town, but you're playing very poorly. We'll discuss it after the game if you'd like.

K

unvote

Explain this unvote, please.

So i could hammer him after his self vote.

Ah, ok. Whatever you say.

He requested I do this I think you missed it.

This makes sense, though. My gut tells me you're town, but you're playing very poorly. We'll discuss it after the game if you'd like.

Obviously I'm playing poorly...I have no fucking idea what I'm supposed to do. That's why I'm sitting back and letting people who are better at the game make the arguments and I just think about them.

K

unvote

Explain this
unvote, please.

So i could hammer him after his self vote.

Ah, ok. Whatever you say.

He requested I do this I think you missed it.

No, I saw him request it. That's why I said, "Ah, ok." The "Whatever you say" part is because I'm a bit surprised that you'd volunteer to do what he asked you to do when you think he's scum.

This makes sense, though. My gut tells me you're town, but you're playing very poorly. We'll discuss it after the game if you'd like.

Obviously I'm playing poorly...I have no fucking idea what I'm supposed to do. That's why I'm sitting back and letting people who are better at
the game make the arguments and I just think about them.

No, I get it, dear. Mafia's not easy no matter what other people say. But, like I said, we can discuss this after the game is over. It's not relevant atm.

He is scum and I want him to die regardless of who runs the poney show leading up to the lynching.

Yikes, deadline.

I'm quite busy at work. Probably won't be able to post again for a day or two, so for now I will share my thoughts about the alive players:

• imopen2: If he's scum, he is playing the noob card quite well, I will say. I can't really tell right now.
• Mogadishu Jones: The only case against him is "he's such a good player, he was busing Yanni since the begining". I can see that as possible, but not conclusive at all and certainly not something to be used for a lynch on this day.
• PhantomS: I have no reason to suspect him. Cannot confirm him as town yet, even after his shot claim, but I'm pretty sure he is.
• The Guardian: I have him as Khaddafi's hammer, and I was following the latest wagon
  on him to see how he reacted. I must say that after the latest posts I get a strong town vibe from him.
• Ximbad: He has posted very little but Yanni was pushing really hard on a Ximbad wagon and given Yanni's play in this game, I highly doubt that it was a busing strategy, which makes me put Ximbad under the townie column.
• Manders: I'm not sure how I feel about her reluctance to claim, after hinting at having some ability that lets her know whether she has been targeted. That little "claim" stroke me as an attempt to get a PR to out themselves. Also, hinting at being a PR could be used to mislead a protective role, if we have one left, into targetting her. I do want to hear that claim, so vote Manders

Wanting to hear my claim is NOT reason enough to get one.

Even if I get to L-2, I will not claim.

So...have at it.

kpaca, what makes you think manders is scum?

manders, I am very tempted to vote you. I'm not sure why you won't claim.

Could we get a vote count?

I don't see any alternative to manders getting lynched barring a sudden reappearance of some posters.

I think I'm the only person voting the guardian
The guardian is voting kpaca
pantssmo (afk) + kpaca and {G_R} voting for manders.


I don't really like any lynches other than the guardian. I absolutely hate his logic for trying to lynch kpaca.

However, I'll go ahead and spoil the ending. I'm pretty sure The Guardian is town and will not be voting for him Today.

Do you care to explain yet?

I feel like the guardian and manders have been acting strangely for a while

I will be making a srs business later, after I respond to another game.

kpaca, what makes you think manders is scum?

manders, I am very tempted to vote you. I'm not sure why you won't claim.

Because there is no case against me other than gut. If someone makes one, maybe I'll reconsider, but there is not one to make because I'm not scum.

I could actually provide evidence to point that I AM Town, but it would just be ignored or argued as WIFOM, so meh.

[quote="Manders » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:58 pm":
1es6ys0k]However, I'll go ahead and spoil the ending. I'm pretty sure The Guardian is town and will not be voting for him Today.

Do you care to explain yet?[/quote]
Nope. People didn't answer questions posted in my last set of posts.

I feel like the guardian and manders have been acting strangely for a while

Don't worry, dear. It'll all make sense when the game is over or I'm dead, whichever comes first.

Cryptic nonsense and an absolute statement not to claim. Yeah, that's super town.

My case against you isn't "gut" and your counterpoints suck. I can break down specific points if somebody wants me to but all you had against my case was little more than a "no" so I don't see much reason to justify myself to you.

i would say reveal whatever it is that proves you are town now because you are probably getting lynched anyways and maybe it would convince someone like me who is mostly going to vote you because you are avoiding all questions

kpaca, what makes you think manders is scum?

manders, I am very tempted to vote you. I'm not sure why you won't claim.

Because there is no case against me other than gut. If someone makes one, maybe I'll reconsider, but there is not one to make because I'm not scum.

I could actually provide evidence to point that I AM Town, but it would just be ignored or argued as WIFOM, so meh.

[quote="Ximbad » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:10 pm":
2w9sr5am]

However, I'll go ahead and spoil the ending. I'm pretty sure The Guardian is town and will not be voting for him Today.

Do you care to explain yet?

Nope. People didn't answer questions posted in my last set of posts.

I feel like the guardian and manders have been acting strangely for a while

Don't worry, dear. It'll all make sense when the game is over or I'm dead, whichever comes first.[/quote]
So your plan is to get lynched? And it has something to do with The Guardian being town?

Hurry up guys, we're approaching our deealdin.

I still don't really understand what happens at the deadline. Does no one get lynched?

Cryptic nonsense and an absolute statement not to claim. Yeah, that's super town.

Yeah, so is demanding a claim with no reason to think I'm scum.

My case against you isn't "gut" and your counterpoints suck. I can break down specific points if somebody wants me to but all you had against my case was little more than a "no" so I don't see much reason to justify myself to you.

No one said anything about justifying yourself to me, but why wouldn't you? Are you not trying to convince the other players that I'm scum? That's how thats done, you know. You make cases.

i would say reveal whatever it is that proves you are town now because you are probably getting lynched anyways and maybe it would convince someone like me who is mostly going to vote you because you are avoiding all questions

What questions have I avoided OTHER than refusing to claim? Point them out, and I'll answer them.

So your plan is to get lynched? And it has something to do with The Guardian being town?

No, that would be stupid.

[quote="imopen2 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:35 am":
pk29ltal]I still don't really understand what happens at the deadline. Does no one get lynched?[/quote]
Well, I checked the rules for the answer to this, but it's not in there.

@ Shalako: What happens at the deadline?

Manders, I was referring to your vague claim of evidence to prove you were town that you felt we would brush aside. All I'm saying is that I'm willing to listen to what it is you have to say and if it is believable you might convince me not to vote you

I probably shouldn't have used the word "claim" as it makes my previous statement a bit confusing

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32896#p32896:3f01pyu6]Manders » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:50 pm[/url:3f01pyu6]":3f01pyu6][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=32212#p32212:3f01pyu6]PhantomS » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:05 pm[/url:3f01pyu6]":3f01pyu6][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=29909#p29909:3f01pyu6]Manders » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:56 pm[/url:3f01pyu6]":3f01pyu6]
I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.
[/quote:3f01pyu6]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=30216#p30216:3f01pyu6]Manders » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:17 am[/url:3f01pyu6]":3f01pyu6][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=30205#p30205:3f01pyu6]Yanni » Wed
Jan 23, 2013 6:47 pm[/url:3f01pyu6]":3f01pyu6]like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck[/quote:3f01pyu6]
A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

[color=#8000BF:3f01pyu6][b:3f01pyu6]Vote: Yanni[/b:3f01pyu6][/color:3f01pyu6][/quote:3f01pyu6]

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.[/quote:3f01pyu6]
How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL, lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.[/quote:3f01pyu6]

He said functionally the same thing on two occasions and your reaction to each was the opposite. What isn't clear here?

I honestly don't know what to do here:

I can't get a case on GR in time, and still can't see Manders being scum (but that last post by PS is pretty convincing)

On the same note, I would still be suspicious tomorrow, but my mislynch today would not cause a town loss. I haven't been doing much, and my vanilla claim means I should be lynched anyway, if i was suspicious enough to be brought that high.

Ask yourself this: If you are going to push for my wagon tomorrow when its fatal, I should be the mislynch today. Unless the mafia chooses not to NK, you are in mislynch or lose whether we lynch or not today. Even a mislynch is better than no lynch. Unless Manders really digs herself a hole, I will vote myself (or hammer if Jones can't be on by the deadline).

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL, lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.

He said
functionally the same thing on two occasions and your reaction to each was the opposite. What isn't clear here?

What isn't clear is that when I said "claim" in that first quote, I was referring to his lack of claiming his night action. The second was referring to his role claim.

So you've just been caught picking and choosing what to use against me in an attempt to convince others I'm scum.

Rebuttal?

I'm not going to assume Yanni is scum because he didn't claim outright. That's just being
entirely too presumptuous.

like why the fuck are you guys willing to lynch the town investigative role like what the actual fuck

A watcher sees who their target targets.

You lied about your role.

Goddamn you, Yanni.

Vote: Yanni

Like, seriously. This is inconsistent as all get out.

How is it inconsistent?

Situation one, Yanni didn't claim right away. Any number of reasons for that to happen, both from a Town perspective and a Scum perspective.
Situation two, Yanni was caught in a lie. While I don't enroll in LaL,
lying REALLY is not a Town trait and should be suspected.

My only fault was voting so quickly, which turned out fine in the end, so meh.

He said functionally the same thing on two occasions and your reaction to each was the opposite. What isn't clear here?

What isn't clear is that when I said "claim" in that first quote, I was referring to his lack of claiming his night action. The second was referring to his role claim.

So you've just been caught picking and choosing what to use against me in an attempt to convince others I'm scum.

Rebuttal?

So, why is it that you didn't clear up this confusion the first time you addressed the post?