Dies to Removal

Food for thought. Thanks, bro!

What do you guys think of this R/w list? It made Top 8 at SCG Indianopolis. It's on the Mutavault plan, not the Nkythos plan.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=62349

Its a strong control deck, which is solid against all forms of aggro/midrange (it can also beat Bx Devotion if resolves some enchantment).

Pedros and a few other people online are doing well with it, its made weaknesses are Bx Devotion (but it can win) and UWx Control.

Bx isnt as bad, I faced like 12 yesterday and lost only ~4-5. Probably 3rd Assemble the Legion in favor of 4rd Dragon, however UW control would be much worse.

UW is bad, but not unbeatable.

This deck is solid WR control deck.

I wonder why people play RW Tokens, when RWG Tokens (the manabase is actually really good) just seems so much better.

I know RW Tokens took a SCG but RWG Token has won many DEs and has answers to Control (Flash creatures, can't be countered 4/4 and Pro Blue guys), Black and Even ghostdad (GW charm FTW).

Are you talking about Naya Control Reynad won Premier event and then Brad Nelson won SCG Invi?

It might be interesting option, however deck I am playing now have a lot of synergies with phoenix + chandra, purporos + elspeth and assemble etc.

Is it that good vs the field? Which list you are talking about?

Were way off-topic so I'll make this my last post about it, but yeah something like Brad Nelson's list (I didn't know he ran it).

Went 2-2 last night because I was trying to run a list without one drops, of course I got matched up against 2 Bx Devotion and a UWr control deck

Never gonna make that mistake again

back on topic I threw together a naya list and did well with it. B/x decks are pretty prominent and I love my MU vs. the Blood baron decks.

I went from the R/g list LP had to this and the black MU then used to be "hope I get a nutdraw and they dont play demon"

yesterday I beat a triple demon hand, felt good.

why choose between chained to the rocks and PW engines when you can have both!?!?

I went 3-0-1 FNM with the intentional draw in the final round. It was UW control in the final, and we played for extra packs - i went 3-0. Opened thoughseize, nykthos and a rg scryland

@Fate - the Naya deck's nutdraw is absolutely fantastic. Possibly the most powerful draw in standard. BUT I found there were many times where it just didn't get there

Tyrael - i dont mind the B devotion matchup without 1 drops. I spent a heap of time testing it and getting a feel for it. I might just be running good though

Punted Round 7 of a PTQ when I was x when and should have easily won. 6-2, top 16 out of 160ish. Kind of tilted, but the deck runs like a dream. Sorta sad I never got to cast assemble though.

back on topic I threw together a naya list and did well with it. B/x decks are pretty prominent and I love my MU vs. the Blood baron decks.

I went from the R/g list LP had to this and the black MU then used to be "hope I get a nutdraw and they dont play demon"

yesterday I beat a triple demon hand, felt good.

why choose between chained to the rocks and PW engines when you can have both!?!?

What list are you running exactly?

...but the deck runs like a dream.

Doesn't it just? I think the draws and how nicely this deck runs is what brought me back to devotion lists. Just this amazing synergy

In the final round of FNM, both me and a UW deck at 3-0, playing essentially for pride and the extra pack of first. Just the absurd threat density (and good threat density) is what really turns me on about this deck. There is absolutely no reason to overcommit to the board, because the 2 damage a turn from the burning tree is enough to keep them honest. For the first time in ages, although i was against control, i felt like i knew exactly what i was doing and how i wanted the match to play out - they tap out to play a planeswalker, i then unload fanatics or whatever to
sort it out (while still not overcommitting). The best thing is that there arent "you must resolve this card" types of threats - whether you get a purphoros down, or a fanatic or a stormbreath - life is pretty good.

But i suppose that is always the case - when you run hot you are a genius, when you run poorly you hate this friggin game.

True. I'm pretty satisfied with the list. While I'm curious to try the list without 1-drops(a guy on sally won a Japanese PTQ beating Saito in the finals), I'm 20-5-1 in tounreys of over 70 people. That's a hair under an 80% win rate which is pretty nuts especially considering I punted round 7 of the PTQ.

Part of me wants to skip the GP in Sacramento if I can find a high enough EV standard event to play in.

Pretty amazing that guy dodged mono black

One of my judge friends told me at the PTQ, they did 4 deck checks per round and every match had 1 mono-black player. Regardless, it's a very good matchup if your better then your opponent and slightly favorable otherwise.

Didn't feel very favorable without one-drops but that might just have been variance

Would you be switching to BR when the new set comes out with the scry lands LP? The two major reasons why I've been wanting to switch is better removal and Rakdos's Return.

I'll switch to...whatever gives me better matchups. Currently even with a black scryland, i'd play R/w as I don't feel like I have any bad matchups and my white sideboard cards are all phenomenal. Chain is also a great answer to domestication since you can sacrifice the land you chain to hammer to get your creature back in funky situations.

I'd definitely wait for all the spoilers to come out before making a decision. For all we know Mogis and God Xenagos can both be insanely good or totally useless., not to mention new tech. I wanted to give RG a try for a week or two, but I don't want to spend $100+ when it can be subpar in three week's time.

I'll be drifting away from R/W anyway since all B devotion decks in my meta are now splashing green for abrupt decay and golgari charm, ouch

I might even try selesnya aggro after BNG releases (sorry!)

Re: swapping to RG - I think that it will depend on God Xenagos' ability - the multicolour gods will only have 1 ability, which is pretty ordinary. That being said, if the 1 ability has great synergy with your strategy, then no loss.

Just saw the new Mogis, god of slaughter - 2 to the dome every turn unless they sac a creature. hrmm...

Never mind

R/B it is

@Volition: Never got there as in what? The only MU that's been problematic is lower curve Mono Red stuff. Phoenix is just house and even with chained/anger they are just consistent and 1-drops smash. 8 temples get punished a lot easier by them, but you STILL can just land a reckoner and get ahead with domri fight and stuff like that.

Pyro White and Rakis are also pretty hard bc they can deal with reckoner easily.

@Tyrael: my friend has my 4th stormbreath so my list isnt really optimal (also only have 3 chaineds) which is why I didnt post it:

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Frostburn Weird
3 Stormbreath Dragon


4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
6 Mountain
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

4 Domri Rade
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rocks

SB: 3 Mistcutter Hydra
nSB: 2 Anger of the Gods
SB: 2 Shock
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
SB: 2 Assemble the Legion
SB: 1 Mizzium Motars
SB: 1 Chained to the Rocks
SB: 1 Xenagos, the Reveler
[/deck]

of the jank #s, I'd only go -1 chained +1 stormbreath when I get the card.

I'm sure I don't like more Purphoros gods, just awful in multiples and too slow fo a threat against decks that interact. I also don't want 4 nykthos without 26 land, because I want 22 for reckoner, PERIOD. Easiest way to lose against red is not curve into reckoner or mulligan. I rather have consistensy with this deck because its laet game will get there than random T4 wins with BTE BTE nykthos double fanatic.

I also dont want 4 mistcutters because I've just found it better to race/interact THEN try and land a huge one to win in a few turns. I cringe when I see people cast mistcutters for 2 or 3...

The SB needs cleaning up as well but I kinda liked it. I didn't like Helix when I tried it out just like Z predicted (
4 mana way too much). I just hope B/W decks don't start picking up glare of heresies...

Not playing 4 nykthos is sacriledge and unforgivable.

We had brainstorm with dauntless268 on MTGO, and this is what we constructed:

[deck]6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Temple of Abandon
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Domri Rade
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

1 Rakdos Cackler
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Last Breath
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Rakdos Cackler[/deck]

SB Is still work in progress.

About mana: we wanted 14 red sources untapped on turn 1 to cast 8 1 drops after SB for UW and Black Matchup. Also wanted 9 white for chains and possible SB slots. That led as to play only 6 green sources for 3 domri rades - the only green card in our deck. We think BTE as fixing (you could cast a domri out
of him or use nykthos to use it to get red mana - cast domri for 4).

SB Is still work in progress, however we really like idea of having 8 1 drops vs black and UW. Dont know if we want 2 assembles and 2 last breaths.

SB:

UW
+3 cackler, +4 satyr, +1 chandra
-4 reckoner, -4 chain, -1 weird

B
+3 cackler +4 satyr, +1 chandra, +2 assemble
-4 dragon, -4 reckoner, -2 weird

U
-1 cackler, -4 ash zealot (accoring to Eric Smith he prefers Reckoners over Zealots here)
+2 last breath, +3 mortars

Mirror
-1 cackler, no idea what to sb out so please help me here.
+3 mortars

Esper Midrange Humans
-1 cackler, -1 hammer, -2 purporos
+3 mortars, +1 chandra

SB for esper midrange is also acording to Eric Smith, however I dont really like it. Mortars doesnt kill a lot of their stuff, they dont kill obzedat or demon.

It would be awsome if you could write any comments.

I want to try out the Naya version tomorrow, splashing green for Domri mainboard and Xenagos/Destructive in the side. I had to take out the one drops, but Xenagos/Domri should make up for it.

Do not play green just for domir. He's the best maindeck card, but what green really gives you is sideboard options. Destructive revelry and Xenagos in particular are amazing as they shore up UW control which can actually be a tough matchup sometimes.

Hydra seems good for beating Ux and UW as well

I don't think Hydra is honestly that great against Ux without true ramp

I mean

by the time youre playing him for value they probably have the real issue in play which is Elspeth win con.

I mean its a fine threat but I'd rather board in xenagos, hammers (nombo combo with mistcutter also) and revelries first, and what else are you going to cut for hydras?



@LP: What should I cut for the 4th nykthos? Should I really go with only 5 mountains?

I got the 4th dragon in my deck and lost only to R/w/b burn (lol took out the helixes from the SB...) beating the naya hexproof deck (destructive revelrly and pray basically), mono black, and mono red.

@Pedros: I think playing last breath in a red deck is TRUE sacrilege. You only have 9 white sources. also I'm sure the 4tth mortars in the MB over the 1 cackler is where you want to be? overloading it with nykthos is one of the reasons to play this deck so I wouldn't take that from the MB.

I'm loving Domri right now. Forcing fights between my Reckoner or an active Purphoros is just lol.

It's also almost impossible to lose against control too. Hammer/Purphoros/Domri/Chandra/Xenagos/Assemble/Destructive Revelry makes for a bad time.

We had brainstorm with dauntless268 on MTGO, and this is what we constructed:

[deck]4 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Domri Rade
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge

4 Frostburn Weird
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Sideboard
1 Destrucrive Revelery
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Xenagos
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Last Breath
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Rakdos Cackler[/deck]

With dauntless268 we just thought that having access to 8 1 drops after sb is just better in control than having stuff like xenagos or revelery... Not
saying they are bad ;P

What would you sugest for naya then? Play 1 mortars over Cackler, and only 4 cacklers in sb and rest of 1 drops with combo of xenagos and destructive revelery?

I saw that every Rw devo is playing only 9 colored offcolor sources, same in Rg. Having less 1 drops = having less need for mountains, It would be possible then to run Temple Garden to cast offcolor spells. Notice it still casts Reckoner and BTE, and 20 sources of red is enought for Zealot and Weird.

As for Last Breaths, It is needed for blue devotion. However if I have go with hydra route (which I think isnt as awsome as it seams vs UW as they have celestial flares, and then they have elspeth and blind obedience.

Thoughts on updated list? Is it better than previous?

Tired and Cranky from ghey spoilers. Anyways, REAL BRIEF:

Hydra is good against control for the same reason stormbreath is(they run zero non wrath answers) while also being scalable and Elspeth answers both so she's irrelephant. At the end of the day though, you can use whatever tools you want to deal with UWx. Green gives you tons of options. Note: mistuctter for zero with purphoros in play is shock to the face if you need that.

Playing 5 mountains is fine, sacrifices must be made. Nykthos is the reason you play this deck.

Last breath is absolutely fine too good. How much life your opponents gain is usually irrelevant since you often overkill your opponent when they win and in matchups where you need the removal, their lifegain is irrelevant since you're playing the control deck postboard.

Also, just play my list. I'm 20-5-1 in tournies with over 75 people in them over the last month and it's bumped me to
10th ranked player in my state. I'm actually not saying that because my list is necessarily better, but because from the moment I picked it up, I've been cruising through events and I've only lost to extremely bad variance and/or misplaying horribly.

Bad variance seems to happen much more often than it should for me. I've had to mull way too often down to 5. I figure I try the different version before the next set comes out.

LP are you playing Eric Smith cacklers in md and satyrs in sb list?

How do you like only 24 lands?

How are only 9 hite sources with all those white cards in sb?

LP are you playing Eric Smith cacklers in md and satyrs in sb list?

How do you like only 24 lands?

How are only 9 hite sources with all those white cards in sb?

Yes I'm playing smiths exact list and it's great. 24 lands are fine, and 9 white sources are enough. Sometimes you'll stall out for a bit, but You can cast chain off of reckoner and later cast chains off of chains if your reckoner dies. All thanks to nykthos of course.

Sleeving this up for fnm tomorrow. So excite.

Just know that given the option of a bad 6 or mulling to 5, I'd usually recommend keeping the bad six.

Excellent, thanks. I keep seeing Mountain - Nykthos - RR card hands and getting sad. Do you ever chain Nykthos together just to vomit your hand, even if it sets you way back?

Quick report, I won 1st tonight going 3-1 (won with tie breakers). This is my list:

[deck]
Creatures
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostborn Weird

Spells
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Domri Rade
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rocks

Land
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Triumph
5 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

2-0 GU Devotion, 1-2 Esper, 2-0 Bant Midrange, 2-0 Jund

Domri and Xenagos are absolute stars whenever they were played. Green is well worth both of them. Thanks to Xenagos one game I +1 into an overloaded Mortars against Bant with
a field with three Prophets, a Smiter, and a Nylea's Disciple, followed by tapping my lands for Fanatic and swung in with my full board.

My only loss was Esper, where I unfortunately flooded both games I played.

I'm definitely sticking with Naya Devotion until BoG is out.

Excellent, thanks. I keep seeing Mountain - Nykthos - RR card hands and getting sad. Do you ever chain Nykthos together just to vomit your hand, even if it sets you way back?

Absolutely. If you had to follow one rule regardless of context, that rule would be get red mana symbols on the board. The more mana symbols, the more potential for broken draws you can have. It's often correct to play hammer before a threat against decks with removal since the hammer is red mana that never goes away.

If modo weren't so horrible(and/or I had it) I'd stream to show ya'll what I'm talking about and how you should just keep most all of your hands. Most opponents are wielding knives and we have the golden gun. Once you know how to harness the power, 95% of
your matchups are cakewalks. White weenie and blind obediance are the only things that give the deck problems outside of opposing nutdraws and if you count the various nutdraws that decks have, ours comes out on top by having the most and best imo.