Dies to Removal

Fwiw, I've been loving my 2 Chandras main

Looks like Pardee is locked for top 8.

I've enjoyed three Chandra main and have considered putting a fourth in the board. I just can't make the room.

Pardee pushed in Cheon's shit just now on camera.

Cheon also punted G1. He seems like a very average player (coming from a very average player).

I'd call it rust. I've been at tourney's with cheon and he's pretty good. His first two ptq's back, he finished in the finals of both and he's won a top 8'd several GPs back in the day.

Also, looks like local player Andrew Brown is going to be in the finals playing UB control.

And wins it. Boooo!

But solid showing for Pardee.

Currently i don't like very much the 3 drop options for this deck besides rabblemaster and outburst.
Brimaz is ok but it stresses the manabase quite a bit, meaning that you probably have to run one less mountain and one more white source... this can lead to minor inconsistencies (no mountains for chains, no double white for brimaz).
Heliod's pilgrim i don't like at all .... while in u/w heroic she offers a very good toolbox, here she is just another removal spell ; but why should i pay 4 mana to get a chain and a 1/2 body when, for example, i can just play banishing light main deck that costs 1 less mana and eats whips and ascendancies game one? Actually i like the idea of 2 banishing main deck, but i fear being too few threat -dense. Another option would be a couple hushwing gryffs main.
Fortunately, it seems like fate reforged will give us nice 3 drops to choose from in flamewake phoenix and monastery mentor. I think i will play flamewake phoenixes as well as a couple ashcloud phoenixes to have better shots at ferocious. If only they printed a good 2 drop or 1 drop to lower our curve a bit it would be perfect.
On the debate between roc and stormbreath, i will just be playing the dragon unless it becomes absolutely clear that roc is better..... because why play a stupid bird when you can play a dragon ?

For my third Brimaz, I just cut a Mountain for an Evolving Wilds. That puts me at 6 CIPT lands which is fine for me.

If I don't decide to splash black I'll be running this.

[deck]
Creatures (15)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (21)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Evolving Wilds
9 Mountain
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Erase
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Scouring Sands
4 Hushwing Gryff
1 Banishing Light
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

@ warchief: Pilgrim = Nekratall vs a lot of decks in the format.

Valdarith : in your list you are playing ten mountains for chained to the rocks. I believe in last season's boros burn the bare minimum was considered 11 but people used to play with 12 (i don't know if memory serves me right, correct me if i'm wrong). Anyway, i could just be paranoid but i like playing at least 12 mountains .... at least, i think your wind scarred crag should be another evolving wilds. My current manabase is 4 temple, 4 battlefield forge, 2 evolving wilds, 10 mountains and 4 plains. My personal opinion is that Brimaz doesn't add enough to the deck to justify the inclusion of a double white three drop in a deck that needs mountains for chains. I am playing him right now because i don't like pilgrim, but probably i will replace him with he new phoenix when fate reforged is released.

Lightning Dolt : I don't think that making comparisons of this sort is helpful at all. You should ask yourself if in this format the 1/2 body is worthwhile rather than thinking pilgrim=nekrataal so she must be good. My answer for now is that the 1/2 body is not doing much, so i'd rather replace pilgrim with another removal spell or another threat, but I'm very open to discussion and i would really like to know if and how pilgrim's body proved valuable for you.

Pilgrims good because being a 1/2 actually shuts down opposing outbursts and in the more token themed decks, it's another body that enables raid for wingmate roc.

Yeah, if you are playing roc i can get behind pilgrim.
I would like to know what do you all feel about a couple banishing lights main deck, because i find whip of erebos painful to face in game one .... I guess the answer is just trying to kill them before they start gaining too much life, but that doesn't always work unfortunately.

How does this deck fare against the newer RG Monster decks that like to go Elvish Mystic into Rabblemaster/Fanatic of Xenagos, curving out at Stormbreath (and backed with Heir to the Wild/Ashcloud Phoenix)?

How does this deck fare against the newer RG Monster decks that like to go Elvish Mystic into Rabblemaster/Fanatic of Xenagos, curving out at Stormbreath (and backed with Heir to the Wild/Ashcloud Phoenix)?

In my experience, the match up plays out a lot like you're playing against mardu or a mirror, except they have much less removal than you. Either of the decks could get really far ahead really fast and neither has excellent resets for the other in my opinion.
This is a matchup that solidly asks "who's the beat down" and you have to know how and when to shift gears. I was testing that deck first because it had rabble masters and dragons in it.

My problem with that deck is that it seemed so terrible vs control. I actually felt really stupid playing Fanatic of Xenagos quite often. The Idea that control gets to make the best decision they have, and non control can respond to the trigger with a lighting effect just made me all vomity.
The R/G deck didn't give me a good feeling vs tokens either and hell it had a tough time vs azban aggro/midrange half the time.
Ultimately I couldn't find a deck that R/G had a "great" matchup against. No removal and its monsters are solidly outclassed.

The best thing about that deck was craters claws.

@ Warchief, LP always knows what I mean. You get a body that makes attacking in awkward and you get to exile a creature. In matchups where your chains get removed, you really do want all the chains.

I wasn't sure about it until I tested it, but it is actually pretty decent right now. The ability to fetch the two silver bullets is nice too.

The new Mardu khan's a 3/2 for 2R with First Strike that lets you pay (w/b)(w/b) when she attacks to return a creature with power 2 or less to the battlefield tapped and attacking. Rabbles just got harder to kill.

Unfortunately, 3/2 with first strike is not a good card in a world of 2/4 creatures...

It attacks through hexproof plants. I think it has potential. Wish it had haste instead of first strike.

Valdarith : in your list you are playing ten mountains for chained to the rocks. I believe in last season's boros burn the bare minimum was considered 11 but people used to play with 12 (i don't know if memory serves me right, correct me if i'm wrong). Anyway, i could just be paranoid but i like playing at least 12 mountains .... at least, i think your wind scarred crag should be another evolving wilds. My current manabase is 4 temple, 4 battlefield forge, 2 evolving wilds, 10 mountains and 4 plains. My personal opinion is that Brimaz doesn't add enough to the deck to justify the inclusion of a double white three drop in a deck that needs mountains for chains. I am playing him right now because i don't like pilgrim, but probably i will replace him with he new phoenix when fate reforged is released.

10 Mountains is fine. The bare minimum for sure. I have yet to have a problem casting Chains before turn four.

I'm not sure how my opinion of Brimaz is so diametrically opposed to everyone else. He's been the third best card in the deck for me in testing behind Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra (probably tied with Chained to the Rocks). I can't imagine not having him. Probably a meta thing.

I had one game with three chains in hand and no mountain. T6 top the mountain and wipe his board. He mad lol.

Valdarith : in your list you are playing ten mountains for chained to the rocks. I believe in last season's boros burn the bare minimum was considered 11 but people used to play with 12 (i don't know if memory serves me right, correct me if i'm wrong). Anyway, i could just be paranoid but i like playing at least 12 mountains .... at least, i think your wind scarred crag should be another evolving wilds. My current manabase is 4 temple, 4 battlefield forge, 2 evolving wilds, 10 mountains and 4 plains. My personal opinion is that Brimaz doesn't add enough to the deck to justify the inclusion of a double white three drop in a deck that needs mountains for chains. I am playing him right now because i don't like pilgrim, but probably i will replace him with he new phoenix when fate reforged is released.

10 Mountains is fine. The bare minimum for sure. I have yet to have a problem casting Chains before turn four.

I'm not sure how my opinion of Brimaz is so diametrically opposed to everyone else. He's been the third best card in the deck for me in testing behind Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra (probably tied with Chained to the Rocks). I can't imagine not having him. Probably a meta thing.

I also think brimaz is pretty awesome. Like, I'd generally rather play the other 3's before him from a value perspective, but he's a plan in and of himself which is awesome.

It's just so nice to have your opponent use removal to deal with Seeker and Rabblemaster only to die to an unanswered Brimaz. Plus he's money vs Jeskai tokens. The only matchup he's actively bad in is Abzan Aggro.

Let's talk about Sam Pardee's GP Top 8 list for a bit:

[deck]
Planeswalker (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Creature (17)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Hushwing Gryff

Sorcery (4)
4 Hordeling Outburst

Instant (9)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Magma Jet

Enchantment (4)
4 Chained to the Rocks

Land (24)
10 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Hushwing Gryff
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Banishing Light
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Erase
2 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

I like most of the list, but my main concern is the postboard strategy vs Abzan Aggro and Midrange. Before, the best strategy was siding in Sarkhans and a 25th land while keeping all four Stormbreaths in the deck, essentially playing control in the matchup and winning with more efficient removal and more powerful five drops than Abzan. Without the 25th land in the board, what's the strategy here? I can't imagine Sam sided into a deck with six five drops on 24 land, especially since he was playing one less Magma Jet than his original list.

Let's talk about Sam Pardee's GP Top 8 list for a bit:

[deck]
Planeswalker (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Creature (17)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Hushwing Gryff

Sorcery (4)
4 Hordeling Outburst

Instant (9)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Magma Jet

Enchantment (4)
4 Chained to the Rocks

Land (24)
10 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Hushwing Gryff
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Banishing Light
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Erase
2 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

I like most of the list, but my main concern is the postboard strategy vs Abzan Aggro and Midrange. Before, the best strategy was siding in Sarkhans and a 25th land while keeping all four Stormbreaths in the deck, essentially playing control in the matchup and winning with more efficient removal and more powerful five drops than Abzan. Without the 25th land in the board, what's the strategy here? I can't imagine Sam sided into a deck with six five drops on 24 land, especially since he was playing one less Magma Jet than his original list.

I think he did just that and just decided to do roll the dice on whether or not he'd curve out. I'd prefer to see a 25th land, but he obviously has a pretty good idea of what he's doing with deck construction.

VS Abzan Aggro, I've been boarding:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Chandra, Pyromaster, + 1 Banishing Light, + 3 Glare of Heresy, + 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
-4 Goblin Rabblemaster, -4 Seeker of the Way, -1 Ashcloud Phoenix, -1 Stoke the Flames

Rationale is that Rabble is bad on defense, and Seeker is best when attacking / playing the tempo game. Ashcloud is a good multi-roll card, but it's a little slow. Stoke is great, but lines up a bit awkwardly vs their threats. Glare also kills Anafenza and Roc, but is typically cheaper.

VS Abzan Whip, I've been boarding:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Chandra, Pyromaster, + 1 Banishing Light + 3 Glare of Heresy, +3 Erase, +2 Sarkan, Dragon Speaker
-4 Lightning Strike, -1 Magma Jet, -4 Hordeling Outburst, -4 Stoke the Flames

Rationale here is that they board in both Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow. Hordeling Outburst is worse than Rabble because Rabble and goblin token have different names and the token gets in after a sweeper. Lightning Strike doesn't do anything against their creatures, so it's an easy cut. Magma Jet is basically the same rationale, but really makes me wish we had a 25th land. Stoke gets chopped because it looses value without Outburst and doesn't kill Rhino. If they don't have whip, I'd probably swap the Erases for Stokes.

Would be interested to hear others ideas on the boarding / come up with a consensus plan.

The magma jet doesn't really matter since you should be boarding it out anyways. It doesn't reliably kill anything postboard.

Not having the 25th land isn't optimal, but it's generally fine since the boarded games are going to be more attrition based anyways and I wouldn't board it in on the draw in either case.

Let's talk about Sam Pardee's GP Top 8 list for a bit:

[deck]
Planeswalker (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Creature (17)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Hushwing Gryff

Sorcery (4)
4 Hordeling Outburst

Instant (9)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Magma Jet

Enchantment (4)
4 Chained to the Rocks

Land (24)
10 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Hushwing Gryff
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Banishing Light
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Erase
2 Scouring Sands
[/deck]

I like most of the list, but my main concern is the postboard strategy vs Abzan Aggro and Midrange. Before, the best strategy was siding in Sarkhans and a 25th land while keeping all four Stormbreaths in the deck, essentially playing control in the matchup and winning with more efficient removal and more powerful five drops than Abzan. Without the 25th land in the board, what's the strategy here? I can't imagine Sam sided into a deck with six five drops on 24 land, especially since he was playing one less Magma Jet than his original list.

I think he did just that and just decided to do roll the dice on whether or not he'd curve out. I'd prefer to see a 25th land, but he obviously has a pretty good idea of what he's doing with deck construction.

VS Abzan Aggro, I've been boarding:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Chandra, Pyromaster, + 1 Banishing Light, + 3 Glare of Heresy, + 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
-4 Goblin Rabblemaster, -4 Seeker of the Way, -1 Ashcloud Phoenix, -1 Stoke the Flames

Rationale is that Rabble is bad on defense, and Seeker is best when attacking / playing the tempo game. Ashcloud is a good multi-roll card, but it's a little slow. Stoke is great, but lines up a bit awkwardly vs their threats. Glare also kills Anafenza and Roc, but is typically cheaper.

VS Abzan Whip, I've been boarding:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Chandra, Pyromaster, + 1 Banishing Light + 3 Glare of Heresy, +3 Erase, +2 Sarkan, Dragon Speaker
-4 Lightning Strike, -1 Magma Jet, -4 Hordeling Outburst, -4 Stoke the Flames

Rationale here is that they board in both Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow. Hordeling Outburst is worse than Rabble because Rabble and goblin token have different names and the token gets in after a sweeper. Lightning Strike doesn't do anything against their creatures, so it's an easy cut. Magma Jet is basically the same rationale, but really makes me wish we had a 25th land. Stoke gets chopped because it looses value without Outburst and doesn't kill Rhino. If they don't have whip, I'd probably swap the Erases for Stokes.

Would be interested to hear others ideas on the boarding / come up with a consensus plan.

If we're referring exclusively to Sam's list, I think Seeker is a card you definitely want in the deck postboard. It helps when the game comes down to a racing situation which is frequently the case in this deck, and since you're the deck with more efficient removal and can play multiple spells per turn, playing Seeker gives you the advantage, especially on the play. I think Brimaz is the card that comes out in this matchup because he looks rather silly attacking into Anafenza and Siege Rhino. I'd try to keep all four Stokes in for maximum answers to Anafenza because I feel like that's the card that really breaks things open for Abzan Aggro. Boarding here is also play vs draw dependent. I would definitely not want a third Chandra on the draw against Abzan Aggro because it's so hard to play into a curved out Siege Rhino or Anafenza and get any value out of it.

Your strategy vs Abzan Whip seems sound.

Seeker is incredibly meh vs. Abzan decks of all stripes. It has a tendency to get stonewalled a lot. I also generally don't bring in all the glares since it doesn't actually answer that much. If you use it on a rhino or Elspeth, they both generally already did a ton of work. I'll still bring in one or two, but not all of them.

Really, my whole plan is just dragon them to death.

Brimaz is pretty me vs death dealer / Heir too. VS Abzan aggro, the Glares have a lot of targets, so I think 3 is ok.

Maybe update to:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Banishing Light, + 3 Glare of Heresy, + 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
-4 Goblin Rabblemaster, -3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos -1 Ashcloud Phoenix, -1 Stoke the Flames



Thoughts?

Also, I think I'm going to switch 1 Glare for 1 Sands. Boss Sligh is overrepresented in my meta.

Seeker is incredibly meh vs. Abzan decks of all stripes. It has a tendency to get stonewalled a lot. I also generally don't bring in all the glares since it doesn't actually answer that much. If you use it on a rhino or Elspeth, they both generally already did a ton of work. I'll still bring in one or two, but not all of them.

Really, my whole plan is just dragon them to death.

Hits Fleecemane Lion, Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate Roc, Sorin, and Elspeth postboard. Seems like quite a bit to me.

Keep in mind I'm talking about aggro here and not the midrange version. I feel like the aggro version is picking up in popularity to where it's pushing the midrange version to just play Abzan Whip instead.

Brimaz is pretty me vs death dealer / Heir too. VS Abzan aggro, the Glares have a lot of targets, so I think 3 is ok.

Maybe update to:

+ 3 Hushwing Gryff, + 1 Banishing Light, + 3 Glare of Heresy, + 2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
-4 Goblin Rabblemaster, -3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos -1 Ashcloud Phoenix, -1 Stoke the Flames



Thoughts?

Also, I think I'm going to switch 1 Glare for 1 Sands. Boss Sligh is overrepresented in my meta.

I could be wrong but I feel like Rabblemaster is better than Hordeling Outburst postboard, at least on the play. If you generate two tokens you can attack into everything except Siege Rhino and trade your Rabblemaster off. Hordeling Outburst also plays right into their Bile Blights where it's a little easier to play around with Rabblemaster since you can just wait until the opponent is tapped out to resolve him and assure at least a two for one.

I'd also keep in Ashcloud Phoenix since attacking in the air is so effective against them. I'd take out a Magma Jet instead since it only deals with an early Deathdealer.

That's fair, although I don't like Rabble on defence. I feel like we're the control so that's was my reasoning.

Well neither card is good defensively so we kind of need to play the card that lines up less poorly against them. I feel like Rabblemaster is better positioned.

Looking over my sideboard plans, I see that I'm bringing in Banishing Light in every matchup. Should I be playing one in the 60 and take out one Magma Jet? It seems Jet gets sided out a lot and moving a Banishing Light to the board would make room for another sideboard card (like maybe a second Banishing Light or a Reprisal).

I also feel like 1-2 banishing lights can be good maindeck. It's always nice to have a catch-all removal spell that can save you from ascendancy/whip/random shit or just eat a creature. I also feel it is not a good sideboard card because it doesn't do anything in particular very efficiently. Maybe it is ok to not play magma jet at all... the only thing that keeps me from removing it is the scry effect that is sometimes invaluable .

The thing about Magma Jet is that having things to do on turn two besides Strike and Seeker is nice. Against Rabblemaster and Seeker decks it is very good. The scry is just icing. It's matches against those types of decks that have me leaning on keeping two in, but playing a maindeck Banishing Light would increase my percentages against Abzan aggro and the whip decks. I'm just not sure which configuration nets the better total percentages.

Banishing light ups your curve which is not optimal and also gives opponents more incentive to board in enchantment removal against you.

More then anything, banishing light is a pretty weak play in most game 1 scenarios since you generally don't want to cast it early in any matchup really.