Rx Burn

[Platypus]

While I understand the critique of the format I like it better than the usual Standard: Buy a bunch of overpriced Mythics and manabase, play with the deck once and then scrap it because the metagame changed before the next time you manage to go to a tournament.

[LP, of the Fires]

^To be fair, I don't feel the pain of standard because I don't buy cards.

[Platypus]

So this is what I'm taking to tomorrow's trial tournament. Don't really know what to expect, it's small but competitive. Probably some home-brews as well.

[deck]
Land
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
6 Mountain

Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley

Sideboard
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Molten Rain
2 Wear // Tear
2 Combust
1 Lightning Helix
[/deck]

Maindeck feels solid, but the sideboard is a bit spread out maybe. I'm wondering if the Combusts should be something else. Pyrite Spellbomb maybe, since I wouldn't be surprised by opposite Kor Firewalkers. Everyone and their mother know I probably play burn. Then again I know there probably will be some UW control deck there.

[Platypus]

^To be fair, I don't feel the pain of standard because I don't buy cards.

I don't buy the Mythics anyway, always try to find something cheap and viable. But it's still a bit frustrating.

[Khaospawn]

Modern is awesome. I love it. I get to play my favourite cards and I'm not terrible at it.

[Kaitscralt]

Burn being a tier 1 deck as opposed to niche tier 1.5 in an eternal format is abhorrent to me.

You're out

[Khaospawn]

And all this time i was convinced that LP was a real Affinity fan. Hell, I've been loving playing with Affinity in playtesting.

[LP, of the Fires]

I do love affinity. I loved playing it against jund, pod, scapeshift, mirrors, etc.

I do NOT like playing it against infect, amulet, Twin, or any of a dozen other combo decks.

[LP, of the Fires]

Trying to beat infect with most decks is a joke if you don't have ton's of lightning bolts, lingering souls or are zoo. Hell, it's even a joke then sometimes.

[Kaitscralt]

Words of a man who has broken under Siege Rhino

[LP, of the Fires]

Junk isn't even that good of a deck. It's just good enough to make all non-combo mostly unviable.

[Khaospawn]

It's a good time to be a Burn player though

[LP, of the Fires]

You couldn't play me to play burn at Vancouver if I went. Burn puts 2 players in top 8 of the PT?

Lots of burn players, lots of lifegain, lots of x-2 drop.

[BlakLanner]

X-3, you can make Day 2 at X-2. The worry about burn hate is still valid as it is probably the easiest of the top decks to hate out. We only have so many Skullcracks or Rain of Gore.

[Khaospawn]

Even when Burn is doing well, it gets no respect. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of Modern.

[hamfactorial]

Guise I had an idea, let's just build a deck with 30 niche sideboard cards maindeck, a bunch of cantrips and a pair of Batterskulls as win conditions.

[Kaitscralt]

Hatebears x-2 drop

[Khaospawn]

You couldn't play me to play burn at Vancouver if I went. Burn puts 2 players in top 8 of the PT?

Lots of burn players, lots of lifegain, lots of x-2 drop.

Honestly, what's the worst anybody can dish out right now that hasn't been done already in the last couple years? Leyline? FKW? Soul Sisters?

[Valdarith]

Well Burn hasn't been on the radar nearly as much as it is now. People expect a lot of it and will prepare their decks appropriately.

[Platypus]

Because Khaospawn asked nicely...

So yesterday's trial tournament didn't go so well, 2-3 end result.

Went with the deck I listed above , but let's post it again:

---

[deck]
Land
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
6 Mountain

Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer

Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley

Sideboard
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Molten Rain
2 Wear // Tear
2 Combust
1 Lightning Helix
[/deck]

Only one Lavamancer and three Searing Blaze because of low fetch land amounts. Battlefield Forges to get more white mana sources.

Round 1: Grixis Twin.
Got him down to 5-6 both game, then he stablize and death by Tasigur follows. Went with a weak hand the first game, and had similar issues game 2 as well. This coupled with him having played a lot against Burn sealed the deal. 0-2

Round 2: RW Prison deck (land destruction and mass removal).
Won the first game without much problem. Didn't really know what I played against so a bit hard to sideboard and he brought in more answers (didn't find any Leylines though). Got him down to 5-6 game 2 and 3, but I could finish him of before he won. 1-2

Round 3: Mono-red Burnish deck (home-brew)
Not a good player imo, and the deck wasn't really optimal. Lots of Haste creatures (no Goblin Guides though) together with burn. Knew what I was up against, because I caught some glimpses of it during the previous round. Had a lousy start first game, so I lost that one. But I felt more confident after side boarding anyway. Second game I won easily, but the third became a nail biter. But Deflecting Palm for the win! 2-1

Round 4: UWR control
Won the first game due to a misplay on his part that left us both at 1 life (misplay on his part was that he didn't attack with everything he had on the table), and I could finish him next round. Game 2 went his way, and game 3 I won without much trouble. 2-1

Round 5: GR Tron
We don't have many Tron players local, so I haven't played against it at all before this. Made a play mistake because of this in the first game. I didn't play my Eidolon turn 2, which allowed him to fetch land etc and set up his board. I managed to get him down to 3 but it was too late. Then death by Emrakul. Had I played the Eidolon on turn 2 I would probably have won. Game 2 he got a Leyline out from the start. I didn't expect that so I hadn't sided in my Wear//Tears. Didn't find enough creatures either, so I sat there with a hand full of burn of course. Then Karn hit the table and it was pretty much over. I sat with a Deflecting Palm in my hand waiting for Emrakul, but since Karn exiled my white lands one by one I couldn't use it when it hit the table. 0-2

Some thoughts:

- Well, I lost against the unfamiliar decks. So I need to brush up on my deck knowledge.
- Kept some bad hands, so I need to think about that and my sideboarding. Should have mulliganed a bit more aggressively.
- Tasigur, Wurmcoil Engine, Spellskite, all spelled doom for me yesterday. What card didn't I have in my sideboard that could have made a difference? Path to Exile. Combust felt lousy whenever I sided it in. Spellskite I could have handled, but I didn't expect it to be sided in so I didn't bring in my Smashes.
- Shard Volleys are just urgh. With more fetches I would have put a fourth Searing Blaze and second Lavamancer in the deck instead.

Metagame of the day:

3 Burn (Top 4 for one)
3 UWR (Second place for one of them)
1 Junk (Winner)
1 Infect
1 Grixis Twin (Top 4)
1 GR Tron
1 RW Prison
1 Robots
1 Merfolk
1 BR (some homebrew)

Some more UWR than one might expect, but we have always had a lot of UWR players around here. Rest is as expected, although very few Junk decks.

[Khaospawn]

It does sound like that you need to clock in some more games with the deck. It will help with your sequencing and sideboard decisions, as well as just being more familiar with how these other decks operate and board against you. On the plus side, you now have a good idea of your metagame and you can prep accordingly.

A few notes:

- Against Tron (of all flavors), you always bring in your artifact hate - Revelry, Wear, and/or Smash and Molten Rains (for the decks that are playing it). In the early game, you blow up their rocks/land tutors, if possible, to try and slow them down. When Tron is online and dropping Wurmcoils, you need to hold the hate cards up until they attack with the Wurm. Blow up the Wurm before damage (or upon declaring it as an attacker) so you don't take the hit. You also do the same thing with Skullcracks. Whatever it takes to avoid getting punched by that fucker. Deflecting Palm can work too, but I'd be hesitant to sideboard it in since it's entirely dependent on them actually casting the Wurm and then attacking with it - You really don't want them to get to that point.


- Combust VS Path - With a metagame like that, I do agree that Path to Exile is good choice. However, the uncounterability of Combust is great against the UWR and Merfolk decks lurking in your meta.

- Shard Volley can definitely be a pain in the ass sometimes. I only run one as a rule since I rarely want to see it early and I never want to draw more than one. Forked Bolt could be an option over at least 1 of the Volleys, if not both. I run 2 in my deck, but I'm also just doing a 2/2 split on the Skullcracks and Helices in the main (my main only has 16 2-Drops, which really quickens the clock), along with 2 Lavamancers - it's a great thing to have against Infect, Affinity, and Merfolk!




-

[Jack]

Why didn't you drop Eidolon on turn 2?

[Platypus]

Because I was totally unfamiliar with the deck list. I didn't expect the flurry of land fetchers and cheap artifacts the next turn.

Yeah my biggest problem right now is severe lack of experience both with playing the deck (or any deck really) and playing against the rest of the field. Basically one tournament each month, which might be FNM Modern. So four round against a "who knows what they'll play?" opposition. So my goals are more long term because of this, but the slow improvements (but they are showing) are a bit frustrating.

[Platypus]

It does sound like that you need to clock in some more games with the deck. It will help with your sequencing and sideboard decisions, as well as just being more familiar with how these other decks operate and board against you. On the plus side, you now have a good idea of your metagame and you can prep accordingly.

True, I need more experience, but it's slow learning. The metagame next month will probably be similar with some more combo decks and close to the established metagame, but with a higher ratio of UWR.

A few notes:

- Against Tron (of all flavors), you always bring in your artifact hate - Revelry, Wear, and/or Smash and Molten Rains (for the decks that are playing it). In the early game, you blow up their rocks/land tutors, if possible, to try and slow them down. When Tron is online and dropping Wurmcoils, you need to hold the hate cards up until they attack with the Wurm. Blow up the Wurm before damage (or upon declaring it as an attacker) so you don't take the hit. You also do the same thing with Skullcracks. Whatever it takes to avoid getting punched by that fucker. Deflecting Palm can work too, but I'd be hesitant to sideboard it in since it's entirely dependent on them actually casting the Wurm and then attacking with it - You really don't want them to get to that point.

I brought in all those, except the Wear//Tears. Don't really know why not. And the 4x Leyline he brought in was a total surprise. I brought in Deflecting Palm because of Emrakul, thought that I'd have a surprise card against it.

- Combust VS Path - With a metagame like that, I do agree that Path to Exile is good choice. However, the uncounterability of Combust is great against the UWR and Merfolk decks lurking in your meta.

I just think that Path has a much wider use against a lot of problematic cards. Yes, the uncounterability is very nice. So maybe drop the Deflecting Palms for 2 Path and just leave the Combust in.

- Shard Volley can definitely be a pain in the ass sometimes. I only run one as a rule since I rarely want to see it early and I never want to draw more than one. Forked Bolt could be an option over at least 1 of the Volleys, if not both. I run 2 in my deck, but I'm also just doing a 2/2 split on the Skullcracks and Helices in the main (my main only has 16 2-Drops, which really quickens the clock), along with 2 Lavamancers - it's a great thing to have against Infect, Affinity, and Merfolk!
-

Going with a lower curve might be good. The decks I've recently used have been a bit of a testing ground for various cards to see what I like and don't like.

[Jack]

Yeah, but what did you play instead? Did you just leave up mana for burn spells?

[Jack]

Also, thoughts on flames of the blood hand? I know that 4 damage burn spells are very important in Legacy burn (so much so that we try to play at least 9), and while modern doesn't have Fireblast or flame rift or sulfuric vortex, that one point of damage is sometimes relevant. On the other hand, it would be our only 3 mana spell.

[GoblinWarchief]

Jack : i don't like 3 mana spells maindeck, but i have 2 flames in my sideboard. At the moment they come in mostly against abzan but they are for any deck with lifegain. I don't think playing flames against an opponent with no lifegain is worth it.

Platypus : as a rule of thumb, always play out your creatures first.Creatures are more effective in the early turns while burn spells are always the same. So turn one goblin guide, turn two eidolon is most of the times a no brainer. Of course there are exceptions : if you have three guides/wiftspears + eidolon i would play double one drop rather than eidolon on turn 2 ..... if you have searing blaze and the possibility to kill a creature, and no other lands in hand to trigger landfall in the following turns, i would use blaze turn 2 rather than eidolon .... if you are facing an aggressive deck sometimes is better to deploy some spells before eidolon to avoid self damagin too much .... that's it, i don't think there are other scenarios where i wouldn't play eidolon turn 2. Maybe, if you are almost sure your opponent is holding a spell snare, play another 2 mana spell to bait it so that eidolon will stick.

[Platypus]

Yeah, but what did you play instead? Did you just leave up mana for burn spells?

I think I played a Lava Spike and maybe a suspended Rift Bolt? First turn was probably a Swiftspear. Dropped the Eidolon on turn three, but it was too late then. Classic bad line of play in this case.

[Platypus]

Also, thoughts on flames of the blood hand? I know that 4 damage burn spells are very important in Legacy burn (so much so that we try to play at least 9), and while modern doesn't have Fireblast or flame rift or sulfuric vortex, that one point of damage is sometimes relevant. On the other hand, it would be our only 3 mana spell.

I had two in the deck I went 3-1 with at the FNM with a few weeks back. I liked it then, I'm not opposed to putting it back in, but maybe in the SB.

[Khaospawn]

The less 3 drops the deck can play, the better.

That's my opinion.

[Jack]

Yeah always drop creatures first. They get a lot worse as the game goes on.

[Platypus]

Thing is I had been dropping second turn Eidolons several times earlier in the tournament, but this time it didn't feel so urgent. Well, that's round 5 fatigue for you with an added "well, I won't top 4 with a 3-2 result anyway" attitude...

[Khaospawn]

Dat attitude.

[Khaospawn]

Okay, so I let the cat out of the bag tonight on a Burn Primer I'm currently writing when I commented on a post in a Modern Group that I'm a part of on Facebook regarding Vexing Devil in current Modern Burn lists.

Since this excerpt is now public, I'd like to know your guys' opinions.

The original post was in regards to Vexing Devil's absence in current lists. I posted this:

Monastery Swiftspear VS Vexing Devil:

There is a huge difference in games where you see a Goblin Guide and when you don't. Monastery Swiftspear pretty much functions as Goblin Guides 5-8 in most cases and this allows you to keep a wider range of opening hands, as well as making mulligans more forgiving. Vexing Devil, on the other hand, is very time sensitive. In the first few turns, VD is guaranteed to either deal four damage or eat a removal spell that would be aimed at your Eidolon or Guide. However, after those early turns, VD's usefulness begins to wane. As the game begins to wind down, you'll most often be relying on a topdeck burn spell to finish the opponent off and I'm willing to best my last dollar that Vexing Devil will be anything but that. As a creature, Vexing Devil's four-power means that he can plow through Spellskites, Obstinate Baloths, Celestial Colonnades, Restoration Angels and other four-toughness creatures. But with that said, VD can also be safely blocked by your opponent's expendable creatures, namely Lingering Souls. And when this happens, you're not dealing any damage at all. Granted, the same can be said about Monastery Swiftspear, but the fact that the Swiftspear has haste cannot be stressed enough. In some of these situations, the Swiftspear can be sandbagged to be played on a counterattack after the opponent has made a swing at you.

Another problem with Vexing Devil right now is that in an Abzan dominated metagame, he's not what you want beyond Game 1. For starters, Vexing Devil being in the graveyard means that opposing Tarmogoyfs are getting bigger and Scavenging Oozes had plenty of food to feed on. In these matches, Vexing Devil should be boarded out in addition to certain Burn spells. There just simply isn't enough to bring from the sideboard to replace these cards and you still need to keep a high density of 1-Drop spells in order for the deck to work right. Bringing in cards with higher casting costs means the game will go on longer and that's not where Burn wants to be against midrange decks.

Playing with Monastery Swiftspear means that your creature configuration rarely changes in a wide variety of match-ups. It also means that you can safely focus on removing the few low-impact cards for the postboard games, thus preserving the streamlined nature of the deck.

Now with all of this said, Vexing Devil is certainly impressive in the combo matchups, as most combo decks don't have a high density of removal spells and cannot allow more than one hit from the Devil. If the meta shifts into a more combo-centric environment, then Vexing Devil may become the better choice. As it stands currently, the big players in Modern are more than capable of dealing with Vexing Devil. There may also be a time where it could be correct to play Vexing Devil in addition to Monastery Swiftspear (at the expense of some of Burn's support spells), but the current metagame is still somewhat new, so only time will tell.

~~~~

It's not completely proofread, but I just want to know your guys' thoughts.

[LP, of the Fires]

Tl;dr if you hang with taylor swiftspear, you don't have to worry about catching VD.

[Khaospawn]

Ha!

[Khaospawn]

But seriously, you're the second person that has tried to TL;DR my excerpt.

Is it too long winded?

[LP, of the Fires]

It could probably be shorter, but I like detail since it saves you time you'd otherwise spend explaining again later when someone can't follow your line of thinking.

[Platypus]

Looks fine to me.

[BlakLanner]

It is accurate and explains your position. Good enough for me.