Dies to Removal

Single Card Discussion



OK, so I've seen a lot of questions from newer forum members about this card (and I've had IRL friends ask me about it, I'll be directing them here) so I wanted to start the ball rolling on the SCD.

First off, lets look at the card:

Mana Cost:

The mana cost means that this won't get splashed or used in a W/r taxbear / hatebear type deck
or splashed as an anti-control card the way Thalia, Guardian of Thraben did. This will basically only see play in R/x and mono red.

Converted Mana Cost:
2
Right where we want it. In line with Pyrostatic Pillar.

Types:
Enchantment Creature — Spirit
Creature Type: Spirit is basically irrelevant. Enchantment Creature however, is a strike against the card. It means it will get hit by cards like [card]Wear // Tear[/card], Destructive Revelry, Deicide, Golgari Charm, Revoke Existence etc. Moving forward, I think those cards will be sideboard mainstays, so we have to take that into consideration

Card Text:
Whenever a player casts a spell with converted mana cost 3
or less, Eidolon of the Great Revel deals 2 damage to that player.
The best part of the card. A Pyrostatic Pillar on legs. This card will be exciting in Modern, since they have never had this kind of effect, and may very well have implications for Legacy. We'll have to wait and see. For the purposes of this discussion, let's stick to Standard.

P/T:
2 / 2
2/2 for 2? I'll usually play a bear with an upside.

Implications for Standard

Let's take a look at the meta (online, since it's easiest to quantify):

Mono Black Devotion (including splash variants): 31%
Mono Blue Devotion (including splash variants): 14%
U/W/x Control: 8%
Red Deck Wins: 4%
White Weenie: 4%
Mono Green: 4%
RW/x Burn: 3%
Naya Hexproof: 3%
Junk Midrange: 2%
Jund Midrange: 2%
Bg Dredge: 2%
Rw Devotion: 1%
GW aggro: 1%
GR Monsters: 1% (Bigger Part of the Paper
Meta, so worth discussing)
Mono Black Aggro >1% (but seeing a lot of play locally)

In R/w/x Burn

I might be wrong, but I don't think this card is one we want in Burn, because it makes out bad matchups worse, and our good match ups better. It is win more and lose more. To illustrate my point, let's look at a few of the more popular match ups.

VS B/x Devotion:
I consider B/x Devo to be slightly favorable. EotGR will almost definitely net you at least two damage, whether that comes from casting a Nightveil Spectre or removing it. However, if they do take 2, cast NVS and the proceed to curve out, you're going to look pretty silly. If all you usually get out of it is two damage, why not just play Ash Zealot? She almost always gets in for two and puts significantly more pressure on your opponent. First strike also is a major disincentive to blocking her, whereas EotGR will be happily
blocked. YP$ is even better against Desecration Demon decks. EotGR seems to be the worst of the three choices. You are also quickening your opponents clock, and in this match up, you life total matters. You don't want to put them in range of a T6 kill (because you got walled by NVS) and give them a lethal T5 Gary.

VS U/x Devotion:
I consider this a favorable matchup. EotGR will trigger off nearly everything in their deck and it is difficult for them to remove. However, it will get locked down with Tidebinder Mage. Not super important since we're more interested in the ability. This is one of the matchups where I think EotGR will do a lot of work, but it's one we should already be fairly heavily favoured in. Win more.

VS U/W/x Control:
I consider this a Slightly Favourable Matchup. Another match where EotGR will almost definitely net you at least two damage. The issues are:
1)EotGR
may only get in two damage before a Supreme Verdict.
2) The control player can break symmetry with their more expensive spells
3) He's slow.
4) He seems worse than Ash Zealot.

VS G/R Monsters:
In my opinion, this is out worst matchup and is unfavourable. EotGR is pathetic here. They might take two when they cast their Hexproof Plant, but after that they're making Polukranoses and Dragons and it's not going to be pretty. It is a pretty much one sided spell that hurts you and quickens your opponents clock. It makes your worst match up significantly worse.

VS Small Aggro:
EotGR is amazing here, but these matchups are already very favourable. Win more.

VS Naya Hexproof: The pants will cost them, but if they have Unflinching Courage, they really don't care. If they don't, I actually think it could help a lot with this matchup.

In Rw Devotion:


Most of what I said for burn applies here too. However, while you will take damage from your own spells, you are also shortening your clock. With an explosive deck like Rw Devotion that has so many "oops, I win" draws, you're going to increase your odds of getting those draws. If your opponent takes a couple EotGR swings / activations, then you'll have a lot better chance of casting Fanatic of Mogis orStormbreath Dragon for an "Oops, I win." The card is probably better than Ash Zealotin this deck. SCG Premium Members can check out this versus video: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... range.html where Brad play R/w Devo with EotGR. You have to play carefully (EotGR seems like more of a three drop) but it might actually bring this deck back.

Alright guys, that's my $0.02. Let me know
what you think and discuss. Thanks for reading.

It should have a place in a sledgehammer type shell where your curve ends 4-6 but you still want to keep an aggressive plan across the board. If Rw devotion is topping out at fanatics, helix, and dragons, then that's where it wants to be. A Rb deck using bestows and whatnot could also profit off him maybe.

It competes with so many other 2 drops though which is the biggest challenge.

I can see that too.

Sooo basically it's bad right now.

Kind of depends. If UW control starts showing more than esper and people can slam in dragons, then that can change since they have less early removal.

As long as black is dominant, then yes, it's kinda bad.

Agreed. If Dragon becomes good, this card becomes better.

Excellent post L_D - I agree that EotGR doesn't have a place in Burn in the current meta

The card seems massively swinging. Like, whoever falls behind, is probably gonna stay behind since catching up generally requires chaining several cheap spells to regain control of the board.

I think if this see's play in standard, it'll do so for the reasons elricity mentioned.

It is perfectly placed in R/W dev. It can also find a potential home in a Rakdos Midrange. Very powerful card.

I'm pretty unexcited about the prospect of it in RW devotion and that's a deck I've played a lot to excellent results.

What about AIR or Heroic? Those decks just want the shortest possible clock since they can't really beat a 4/4 anyway.

I have very, very limited experience playing them. What do you think?

I've never gone full heroic; seems akin to going full retard, but I digress. Eidolon still has that whole "massively swingy" issue going on. If you're playing heroic, your deck is mono cheap spells and I'd imagine you either win in spectacular fashion or you cast it and suddenly you're taking six damage to try to regain parity if you're behind.

SHRUG

That's kind of how I imagine it too.

I solo tested the following a couple times (not pure goldfish, but not real testing either):

[deck]
Heroes
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Satyr Hoplite

Villains
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker

Enablers
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Madcap Skills
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike

Mountains
18 Mountain


Side
2 Act of Treason
3 Burning Earth
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood
[/deck]

I got it off some braindump Flamespeaker article on a site that sells cards (I forget which one). It amused me because it doesn't even bother with mutavault, is a burning earth shell if everyone starts playing 23 non-basics, and just scoops after turn 5 (best 5 out of 11 anyone?)
The Eidolon did exactly what it's supposed to do, make the game much shorter. I imagine it's just awful vs. green. With Mantle and
Firedrinker you have the option of spending your mana firebreathing instead of shocking yourself (although firedrinker I think is a wash).

I think this is cute but not enough to actually BUY the Journey rares. It's interesting enough to make me want to trade for them... if I get a critical mass I might start testing this in earnest.

not pure goldfish, but not real testing either

lolwut

not pure goldfish, but not real testing either

lolwut

Pretty sure he means he played two decks at once.

I solo tested the following a couple times (not pure goldfish, but not real testing either):

[deck]
Heroes
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Satyr Hoplite

Villains
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker

Enablers
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Madcap Skills
4 Titan's Strength
2 Lightning Strike

Mountains
18 Mountain


Side
2 Act of Treason
3 Burning Earth
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blood
[/deck]

I got it off some braindump Flamespeaker article on a site that sells cards (I forget which one). It amused me because it doesn't even bother with mutavault, is a burning earth shell if everyone starts playing 23 non-basics, and just scoops after turn 5 (best 5
out of 11 anyone?)
The Eidolon did exactly what it's supposed to do, make the game much shorter. I imagine it's just awful vs. green. With Mantle and Firedrinker you have the option of spending your mana firebreathing instead of shocking yourself (although firedrinker I think is a wash).

I think this is cute but not enough to actually BUY the Journey rares. It's interesting enough to make me want to trade for them... if I get a critical mass I might start testing this in earnest.

Get rid of the Crusader and include 4x Rubblebelt Maaka (doesn't trigger the Eidolon when you bloodrush it!)

not pure goldfish, but not real testing either

lolwut

Pretty sure he means he played two decks at once.

Yes, I was playing both sides. It was mostly to get a feel for how fast Eidolon kills both people, so seems relevant. I have no data to indicate this deck is actually playable in a real tourney and I am not claiming it's good.

Most of the variants do use Maaka... The advantage of
crusader is that there are some nut hands without flamespeaker that are very pump heavy. But it probably is the worst card. I actually don't like all the 4-ofs so maybe something like 3 Maaka / 3 Eidolon of the constant shocking / 2 hoplites (to go to the perfect 10 1x 1 drops). Or 3 crusader/3 hoplite.

How was Dragon's mantle? Feels like you don't have enough mana to make the firebreathing good. Warhound probably better.

Dragon's Mantle is more for the heroic trigger + card draw than the firebreathing tbh

Honestly, in my limited "testing" it didn't matter. Replacing itself is very key. It SEEMS that firebreathing would be useful with Flamespeaker or when Eidolon is out and you can get a free shock in. Warhound does seem pretty good... I guess if your average card is = a 2/2 then not having to cast it and shock yourself is pretty good... but 3 to bestow is like "finisher cost" in this deck. Maybe it comes in for skillz against black or spot removal heavy decks? (the sideboard isn't even a thing... and I kinda doubt running both PE and BE is sound unless everyone is running Rxy.

Dragon's Mantle is more for the heroic trigger + card draw than the firebreathing tbh

Which makes it better than warhound...how?

Dragon mantle is necesary in these type of decks for hitting your land drops. I've fiddled with these decks before and they're actually not bad at a PTQ I played in which featured multiple pro tour champions, a guy nearly top 8'd with this deck but got dreamcrushed going into the final round.

Ah, thanks.

So, the SCG open happened. I'm still skeptical, but maybe I was just wrong.

So, the SCG open happened. I'm still skeptical, but maybe I was just wrong.

Your not, Revel isn't great but if your ahead dropping him usually means you'll stay ahead... if your behind or if they drop something which you just can't kill and you have Revel in play you'll suddenly find yourself in a worst position

I do like him ALLOT against control though not that kine on running them MD like they did in SCG since I still believe YP$ is the better creature for that slot.

This weekend proves we are all wrong, that we need spend more time testing and less time posting based on theories.

This weekend proves we are all wrong, that we need spend more time testing and less time posting based on theories.

I think people were already theorizing running him SB so...

Running him instead of AZ in red devo seems odd too

I still think it makes monsters go from bad to worse, which is my main problem with it. Im guessing scg pilot dodged that match up.

4 SFDs makes the match up good, g1 is easy anyway.

This weekend proves we are all wrong, that we need spend more time testing and less time posting based on theories.

True that.

Purp, are you playing both main?

LOL I am not wrong. So some scrubs do well at a scrub event and now the world is upside down? OK sure.

Never change Z lol.

I still think it makes monsters go from bad to worse, which is my main problem with it. Im guessing scg pilot dodged that match up.

I don't think it'll be long before people realize monsters is a bad deck and stop playing it

green just sucks in the current meta

I think you underestimate their stubbornness.

It hasnt been good in months and people still play it.

I'm thinking of putting this in a red devo list after all to improve the control matchup, how do you guys feel about it in that kind of deck?

LOL I am not wrong. So some scrubs do well at a scrub event and now the world is upside down? OK sure.

I wanted to speak out against it but...
...I didn't feel like the argument either. I don't think its inherently awesome. It is a card that you can learn to use properly and get somewhere with, but that doesn't mean its the best choice. (and to be fair it might well BE depending on the meta swing)

I see why its there, its a 2 mana shock, but it can determine the sequence of peoples plays, especially since no ones had to play around that effect really in such a long time.

The commentator at the scg said it best "if it can do 4 damage then its done its job"
Its a really accurate statement...

but so is this....
[quote:
1i6xvr6v]We need spend more time testing and less time posting based on theories.[/quote]


Moreover... I'm no sure it's correct to call the scg open a scrub tourney, Its a huge event most of the time. That means there will be some number of quality players there Ymmv.