Checkbox Mafia - Day 3 (Abandoned)

[rezombad]

I've been reading, but haven't had the time or mental capacity to do any critical thinking. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[imopen2]

@imopen2:

- Do you believe that me being less aggressive this game(or trying to me) is alignment indicative? If so, why?
- Also, it sounded like you were planning on voting me the whole time, you were just posturing to look like you were "considering it" before you did so. Mhmm.
- The way you worded 104 was odd. Instead of just outright asking "Why did you vote them?" you garbled a bit asking "Why'd you do that? Because Kaze is town or because CM is scum?" I just don't see the townie mindset behind that question.

1. No. I think that is a null tell since your behavior in previous games brought you a ton of heat, both when you were scum and when you were town, so you
needed to adapt regardless of what role you have in this game.

2. I was planning to vote you, and i did not try to hide that fact whatsoever. asked for your reasoning, and, when it wasn't reasoning that made sense to me, i voted you. i was never considering whether i thought you were scummy or not, because voting a wagon for no reason is a scum move in my book, i was waiting to consider your answer to my question, and i did, and i voted as a result.

3. I don't see anything wrong with the way i worded my question. you somewhat misquoted me tho which may be leading you to a poor conclusion. i said, "Does that mean you think kaze is town? Or do you think captain is more scummy?" the question was to determine why, in the midst of the wagon on you, void decided to vote CM with no reasoning. was it because he thought you were not scum? or because he thought you both might be scum but that CM was more important. i wanted to get his opinion towards you locked in at that point in case he
ended up being one of the last few votes on your wagon. in my mind, voting CM could have been a placeholder vote in order to hammer you and not seem like lurkScum that was swooping in for the hammer. void didn't seem to have a problem with my question, he answered it on the next page.

[imopen2]

kaze starts off with a vote on iso (a wagon that rezombad incited after my rvs vote because, "scumslip"), and suggests we nameclaim (this is fine with me, like I said I have no problem with a name claim)

So, you're just summarizing Kazekirimaru's posts and trying to pass it off as content, huh?

No...this was the beginning of a case on Kaze. I was setting the scene in the part of my post that you quoted, yes, but i was adding
my own commentary on most of Kaze's posts to that point and why i felt that they were scummy and/or attempts to deflect attention from himself. if my post was simply summary of his posts then you should be voting Kaze because he would be confirmed scum with all the truthful "summary" i laid out.

[imopen2]

tubehunter, wheat, and slowpoke: you all have yet to answer my questions. please do

[Kazekirimaru]

I paraphrased, imopen.

Why would Void vote CM because he thought I wasn't scum? Wouldn't he just vote CM on the grounds of being scum? You can disagree with someone's reads without finding them scummy, can you not?

[imopen2]

I paraphrased, imopen.

Why would Void vote CM because he thought I wasn't scum? Wouldn't he just vote CM on the grounds of being scum? You can disagree with someone's reads without finding them scummy, can you not?

i didn't say he was voting CM because he thought you were town or scum. what i was asking was, if he thought you were scum, why wouldn't he vote for you since you already had a sizeable wagon on you and i don't think CM was even being cased at the time? that leads me to believe he thought either 1. you were town, OR, 2. he felt that you were both probably scum but he was MORE sure about CM than you. i wanted to lock him into one of those opinions because i didn't like the idea of him being able to waffle on you
a page or two later.

[imopen2]

the point is, his behavior led me to believe that if he was town, he must feel one of those two things about you and i decided to ask which one it was

[RedNihilist]

It's fair enough that you don't wish to be aggressive. That's okay. There are plenty of people who are excellent scumhunters in this game who do so with much tact involved. That said, you cannot deny the fact that you look like lurkScum right now.

You have nine posts this game thus far.

- One is a /confirm.
- The next is proclaiming your brain hurts and talking about the setup.
- Then a thank.
- Talking about me being aggressive and null.
- Telling me to get my shit together, and telling void to do stuff.
- Calling yourself stupid.
- A welcome.
- "I've got many lives, I've got to say."
- And another welcome.

You've contributed the least in this game.

And as for other people, my opinion on them is whatever right now.
I'll get to them. But your deflection and finger-pointing makes me worry even more.

Nope, I just asked for advice.
I don't really know how you can read that as "finger-pointing", but I've got my answers so whatever

[Kazekirimaru]

How can't you?

"Yeah...I've been kinda lurky...BUT! Look at those guys! They're totally worse than me, amirite??!"

[RedNihilist]

Nope.
I didn't actually *point* fingers, I didn't make any name in that post.
I've just asked your opinion on users acting in a certain way I actually feel quite disturbing.
You didn't answer that bit and got it wrong, but if I'm reading you correctly that's not that much of an issue, because you're implicitly saying that you're more "scared" by my stance, so I get my answer anyway.

[Kazekirimaru]

You still deflected off yourself at the end of your post. An attempt to steer discussion off its original course, that course being the subject of you. Classic scum behavior.

But, I digress.

You're not who I want dead today.

[Wheat_Grinder]

tubehunter, wheat, and slowpoke: you all have yet to answer my questions. please do

Was your question "Why do you think [Insert your choice of player] is [Insert my choice of that player's alignment]?"

Then I'll get to it later.

If it's something else remind me so I can add it to the list.

[imopen2]

Hearts are a thing that kaze does when he tries to be snarky. I mock him for it sometimes.

"I really don't think dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 does not support scumbuddies."

Try this again. With less of the unnecessary double negatives. I honestly don't know what you were attempting to say.

add it to the list

[RedNihilist]

I won't be able to log in until monday.
Kisses.

[Cursed_Pride]

I'd love to hear some substantial reasoning for the townreads on RedNihilist.

I share many of the game's sentiments with him, though I wish he would do something - he's been a blip on my radar so far, and that's not good.

[Wheat_Grinder]

Restated:

I don't think the dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 supports both of them being scum.

Slowpoke and imopen2 are not scum together due to their dialogue. Their dialogue does not support them being scumbuddies.

I said it two ways because I discovered it's actually kinda hard to make it sound right.

[TubeHunter]

I don't think the dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 supports both of them being scum.
.

I agree with this

The question is, who is the scum?

Guess we'll find out

Vote: Imopen

[TubeHunter]

Also, can I get a votecount please?

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't think the dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 supports both of them being scum.
.

I agree with this

The question is, who is the scum?

Guess we'll find out

Vote: Imopen

I'm really not fond of this line of thinking.

Setting up a situation where "One of these two are likely scum" makes it easy to push one to lynch one day and then flashwagon the other the next day if/when the first flips town. It's a destructive line
of play. Associations are best left to Day 3 and later.

That's not to say I don't want imopen lynched, but yeah.

[Wheat_Grinder]

I don't think the dialogue between Slowpoke and imopen2 supports both of them being scum.
.

I agree with this

The question is, who is the scum?

Guess we'll find out

Vote: Imopen

Why do you agree with it?

[Slowpoke]

ill try and find time to catch up today

[Wheat_Grinder]

I like the part where every single player has had to catch up in this game.

[Captain Murphy]

Alright, I've been on a big bender, I'll make a catch up post today!

[Captain Murphy]

@Captain Murphy:

- Your vociferous opinions against the nameclaim make me wary, still. You say that it's a waste of time because scum will just claim some name and hope it passes, but an experienced player such as yourself should know that there is a chance that scum could claim a name a townie has and get tripped up that way. You argument that "a game this flavored would have safeclaims" is invalid. Especially when the risk for town is so low and the risk for scum is so great.
- At 142 you state "rvs was over at that point." You're saying RVS ends at the same time for everyone? Why do you think that's the case?

It was a waste of time that early in the game, I only ever like mass
claims and gaming the mod from a few hundred proper posts. On top of that, creating flavor that can break a game open is generally bad and its a high possibility that they have falseclaims.

Its called random voting stage, once you get to the point that there is a non random vote, the stage is over.

@Cursed my question is probably too vague, but I was asking who 3 people you thought were scum. I have been reading your posts! That T/S list basically answers my question though.

Iso, cursed, wheat and tube are town. Kaze has started looking more town to me, mainly because he isn't posting so many love hearts anymore and actually providing posts with good info.

Slowpoke isn't scum, I think its just checkbox fucking up and being a mafia noob

imopen is our day one lynch, his responses are overreactions, deflections and just nonsense. I'm happy to vote him but I need a vote count please

This game is gonna be slow.

[imopen2]

@Captain Murphy:

- Your vociferous opinions against the nameclaim make me wary, still. You say that it's a waste of time because scum will just claim some name and hope it passes, but an experienced player such as yourself should know that there is a chance that scum could claim a name a townie has and get tripped up that way. You argument that "a game this flavored would have safeclaims" is invalid. Especially when the risk for town is so low and the risk for scum is so great.
- At 142 you state "rvs was over at that point." You're
saying RVS ends at the same time for everyone? Why do you think that's the case?

It was a waste of time that early in the game, I only ever like mass claims and gaming the mod from a few hundred proper posts. On top of that, creating flavor that can break a game open is generally bad and its a high possibility that they have falseclaims.

Its called random voting stage, once you get to the point that there is a non random vote, the stage is over.

@Cursed my question is probably too vague, but I was asking who 3 people you thought were scum. I have been reading your posts! That T/S list basically answers my question though.

Iso, cursed, wheat and tube are town. Kaze has started looking more town to me, mainly because he isn't posting so many love hearts anymore and actually providing posts with good info.

Slowpoke isn't scum, I think its just checkbox fucking up and being a mafia noob

imopen is our day one lynch, his responses are overreactions,
deflections and just nonsense. I'm happy to vote him but I need a vote count please

This game is gonna be slow.

Can you point out some of my overreactions?

It's really amazing to me how so many people think I'm scum when I don't think I did anything scummy. Goes to show how much I still suck at this game I guess

[Void]

I'm liking TubeHunter as Scum after his jump.

"Someone said one could be Town with other being Scum. Let's lynch one and see what they flip" is not a Town mentality. If TubeHunter flips Scum, then I wouldn't be surprised if both Slowpoke and imopen2 are Town.

unvote
Vote: TubeHunter

I'm still willing vote for Murphy as well.

[Stardust]

I'm going to start from the beginning since I'm going to be rereading from Page 3 anyway.

@Iso: Does Kaze look scummy to you right now?

@Wheat Grinder, Void, CM: How do you feel about a speak now nameclaim?

Why did you ask Iso that question so early on?

Why did you think speak now would make a name claim a good idea?

@imopen: I wanted to see how you'd react, and you did NOT disappoint.

React to what? How was his reaction scummy? I'm not seeing a particularly aggressive post from you to
prod him to action or anything.

I'm not that bad, am I?

You know what you did.

imopen looks scmmy ashell.

First impressions still have some basis. Why did you think imopen looked scummy? I feel like this first impression is based on Iso and WG more than on your own reads.

In fact, reasoning for all four of your scum reads would be appreciated.

I'd love to hear some substantial reasoning for the townreads on RedNihilist.

I'm guessing that WG is considering Red's question about the number of scum as a town slip. Seems likely.

- Do you believe that me being less aggressive this game(or trying to me) is alignment indicative? If so, why?

1. No. I think that is a null tell since your behavior in previous games brought you a ton of heat, both when you were scum and when you were town, so you needed to adapt regardless of what role you have in this game.

Didn't you call Kaze out on this earlier?

I won't be able to log in until monday.
Kisses.

Why the... flippancy? I never saw this from you in KNM (where you were town).

[Stardust]

Cursed Pride. I'd rather keep my reasoning for Slowpoke to myself for the moment. Remind me later and I'll give it.

Can you give it to me now?

Sure. I didn't want to share initially since I felt like my catch was strong, but it seemed a bit weak from the outside looking in. Basically, sharing at that time would have done a disservice to the wagon, and I wanted to get a true reaction from Slowpoke. I should have gotten around to doing this sooner.

I won't quote his RVS
posts, but they were weak. Didn't vote in his first post. Put the fourth vote on the Iso wagon. Not necessarily scummy, but left a bad taste in my mouth.

His next post is full of what I consider small tells. I'll just go through each as I saw it.

Iso said that it was a joke (which may or may not be true), and I may or may not have voted Iso as a joke.

If it was a joke, Slowpoke voted Iso to continue RVS. If it wasn't a joke, then Iso gave Slowpoke nothing and Slowpoke should have voted Iso in his first post. I believe he didn't because he was worried about a trap of some kind. Regardless, there is no reason to be obstructionist here (especially given Slowpoke's later anger towards those who were calling his RVS vote serious - if it's so obviously a joke, then why is he so worried about it in this post?).

@rezombad: Are you so self-absorbed to think that I blindly followed you? Doesn't the fact that I asked a question mean that I did NOT blindly follow you?

Overly defensive and also misleading. Slowpoke did ask a question, but he never got an answer before voting.

@Captain Murphy: Are you also unable to read posts? lurk moar then ask questions that make sense. I did not blindly vote Iso.

Continuing to be overly defensive.

@Stardust: Iso knew that his formatting did not match the PMs, due to the SAMPLE ROLE
PMs in the OP. It wasn't a real slip, Iso (as always) knew exaclty what he was doing.

This is the big one, in his wording. "It wasn't a real slip, Iso knew exaclty what he was doing". How would Slowpoke know that? This is exactly the kind of stuff I tend to say about townies when I'm scum. It makes no sense coming from town, though. Especially town that actually jumped on that same wagon.

Slowpoke later accuses me of buddying with Iso, but he's the one buddying right here. If Slowpoke is scum, I believe this line clears Iso.

@Kaze: Did you also not read the OP? Iso bolded "Town" when they are not bolded in the PMs.

Unvote.

Vote: Kaze[/
quote]
And he ends it all off with an unsupported wagon jump to what was the most popular wagon.

That's all one post, and all that should be included in my answer since that's what my initial vote was based on. Other things that have since caught my eye:
- Subtle threats to Kaze here and Cursed Pride here.
- That second link also has that "medium-sized" problem that Iso called out earlier.
- His story has also changed about his RVS vote on Iso. He gets really worked up about how everyone is taking it seriously, but then later claims he had reasoning for the vote in this post. Not only is his mindset not consistent, but this proves
that he was worried about placing the vote on Iso. His question that never got a response was a token gesture to make him look more townie (and self-referenced later to prove this fact).

[Kazekirimaru]

Could someone kindly explain this "Medium-sized" problem to me? I don't understand what that means.

[RedNihilist]

I won't be able to log in until monday.
Kisses.

Why the... flippancy? I never saw this from you in KNM (where you were town).

I had to google what flippancy is.
Anyway, if I was to find a difference between this game and KNM, I'd say that this is my third game rather than my first one.

[RedNihilist]

Let me rephrase this.
"If, as an external observer, I hah to motivate a behavioural shift between the way RedNihilist was playing in KNM and the way he's playing in this game, I'd start about thinking that back then he was playing his first game while he's playing his third now".

FFS, my english is subpar AND I'm not taking the right amount of time into thinking what I'm actually writing.

[Stardust]

Okay. Can you tell me how you're feeling about that? More confident, more casual, what?

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=135211#p135211]Kazekirimaru » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:22 pm[/url]"]Could someone kindly explain this "Medium-sized" problem to me? I don't understand what that means.[/quote]
Reference to an order of the stick comic. Basically that the language he uses indicates that he's trying hard to fit in among "fellow townies" or whatever.

[RedNihilist]

Okay. Can you tell me how you're feeling about that? More confident, more casual, what?

I still find everything incredibly difficult, yet I feel like I "know" people like for example you and Kaze a little more.
Being a little more familiar with the environment makes posting a lot less stressful... I'm just a different kind of newbye now. I guess

[TubeHunter]

So red, got any actuall reads? Anyone who you think is scum?


@sstardust: got ya coming when I get back to my house

[Kazekirimaru]

Okay. Can you tell me how you're feeling about that? More confident, more casual, what?

I still find everything incredibly difficult, yet I feel like I "know" people like for example you and Kaze a little more.
Being a little more familiar with the environment makes posting a lot less stressful... I'm just a different kind of newbye now. I guess

You know me from what? Boondocks mafia is the only thing here complete. So, you know my scumgame, you think?

[RedNihilist]

Okay. Can you tell me how you're feeling about that? More confident, more casual, what?

I still find everything incredibly difficult, yet I feel like I "know" people like for example you and Kaze a little more.
Being a little more familiar with the environment makes posting a lot less stressful... I'm just a different kind of newbye now. I guess

You know me from what? Boondocks mafia is the only thing here complete. So, you know my scumgame, you think?

I've never said anything like that.
I feel like I'm more acquainted with the way you play, but that is quite different from saying I can read you.

[Kazekirimaru]

Fair enough.

[RedNihilist]

So red, got any actuall reads? Anyone who you think is scum?

I get bad vibes from Void, Rezombad and Slowpoke.
I don't know if I want to add imopen2 to the list as well.

No strong reads from here, though.

What about you?

[RedNihilist]

<- going to bed

I hope to find a Votecount when I come back.

[Yannaria]

A votecount you shall receive

votecount

---

but tomorrow cause I'm baked