[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Purp]

How does he increase your chances to beat the t1 decks? He doesn't.

[Dechs Kaison]

That's another thing I can't even consider. I don't play standard; I'm not familiar with the meta. I don't know what deck he'd go in or what cards in that deck he'd compete against.

I'm just saying, on the surface, he looks really strong and like he has a lot of potential.

I freely admit that I don't know enough of what I'm talking about.

[Purp]

He's going to be great in Limited. Too slow for current standard with all the removal running around. Ench strategy is just asking to get 2 for 1.

[Dechs Kaison]

He's going to be great in Limited. Too slow for current standard with all the removal running around. Ench strategy is just asking to get 2 for 1.

That's why I've been harping on Bestow. Then it's at least not a 2 for 1.

[LP, of the Fires]

Metagame analysis:

Embarrassed by Jace.

Slighlty less generic threat vs. MBC(they kill everything you play, but this draws cards similar to chandra's phoenix in the MOST abstract of ways).

With pump affects, this is one of the few non-shitty cards vs. Mono-Blue.

Begs to be played with rubbelebelt maka/titan's strength(the formers a better card, the latter can get cast after you draw it and in fact does really cool things where you reveal off of fs damage, then scry to what you want for after normal combat damage).

Probably fine vs. generic small aggro decks.

Aside: Agree with DS that Mogis Warhound is SUPER underrated. 3 bestow for giant strength is actually a very big game. In something like AIR style red decks, gaining another option for your BTE chains and something resembling a midgame play is incredibly boss.

[Jack]

He's going to be great in Limited.

[Stardust]

That's why I've been harping on Bestow. Then it's at least not a 2 for 1.

Cardwise, yeah, but you lose so much tempo, not to mention card quality.

[LP, of the Fires]

You don't actually lose tempo if you're fighting for the board since bestowing a creature effectively adds "haste" damage.

[Stardust]

For what it's worth, if you give this guy some sort of firebreathing affect and he goes unblocked, you can deal 1 damage, reveal, see if you want to cast the card(say you reveal a lightning strike and have for mana available) and then elect to pump twice.

There are...layers.

This, to me, exemplifies why he's bad with firebreathing in particular. You have four mana available, but rather than pump him to hit for an extra 8 damage, you opt to draw two burn spells and Lightning Strike your opponent for 6. Maybe he'll see some play, but it's not going to be with Dragon Mantle.

[Stardust]

You don't actually lose tempo if you're fighting for the board since bestowing a creature effectively adds "haste" damage.

I guess? Doesn't change the fact that you just paid 3 for a 1/1.

[hamfactorial]

Dude might be ok in an RB aggro shell running Whip, 2 power 1 drops into Pain Seer and this guy, plus Doom Blade variants and burn, etc.

A pile of dudes that sometimes get extra value, removal to connect more reliably, and a way to reuse them seems like a reasonable plan.

[LP, of the Fires]

You don't actually lose tempo if you're fighting for the board since bestowing a creature effectively adds "haste" damage.

I guess? Doesn't change the fact that you just paid 3 for a 1/1.

I think we're talking about something different? I was speaking about Mogis Warhound in particular: 2/2 for 1R bestow of 2R. This same concept has also seen high level play in Herald of Torment and fringe play in spiteful returned.

[Valdarith]

I love Mogis's Warhound. I actually posted a BR aggro deck in the new card subforum splashing red for him, Dreadbore, and Lightning Strike maindeck. Pain Seer into bestowed Warhound is insane.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I love Mogis's Warhound. I actually posted a BR aggro deck in the new card subforum splashing red for him, Dreadbore, and Lightning Strike maindeck. Pain Seer into bestowed Warhound is insane.

This is relevant to my interests.

[Stardust]

You don't actually lose tempo if you're fighting for the board since bestowing a creature effectively adds "haste" damage.

I guess? Doesn't change the fact that you just paid 3 for a 1/1.

I think we're talking about something different? I was speaking about Mogis Warhound in particular: 2/2 for 1R bestow of 2R. This same concept has also seen high level play in Herald of Torment and
fringe play in spiteful returned.

Yeah, okay, 3 for a 2/2 then. Bestow saves you the 2-for-1, but it's still a big loss. That's all I was trying to say.

[LP, of the Fires]

4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Varolz, The Scar Tipped
3 Atheros, God of Passage
3 Brimaz, King of the Kats
4 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council

2 Ajani, Thunder Catz

1 Spear of Heliod
1 Godsend
5 Removal Spells

I CAN HAS JUNK ARISTOCRATS?????

[Valdarith]

I love Mogis's Warhound. I actually posted a BR aggro deck in the new card subforum splashing red for him, Dreadbore, and Lightning Strike maindeck. Pain Seer into bestowed Warhound is insane.

This is relevant to my interests.

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=2550

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4 Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Pain Seer
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mogis's Warhound
4 Herald of Torment
3 Agent of the Fates

Spells (11)
4 Thoughtseize
4
Lightning Strike
3 Dreadbore

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mana Confluence
7 Swamp
[/deck]

It's possible that Agent of the Fates should actually be Rakdos Cackler.

[hamfactorial]

4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Varolz, The Scar Tipped
3 Atheros, God of Passage
3 Brimaz, King of the Kats
4 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council

2 Ajani, Thunder Catz

1 Spear of Heliod
1 Godsend
5 Removal Spells

I CAN HAS JUNK ARISTOCRATS?????

Wizards plz reprint Vindicate

[Khaospawn]

You guys do remember that we all rocked a 2/2 for 4 CMC double strike at one time, right? Granted it did have undying, but hey....you never what the metagame will turn out to be a year from now.

Isn't there a quasi stonewright guy in this block too?

[Khaospawn]

Just realized there was a whole other page of stuff to read. D'oh!

[LP, of the Fires]

I love Mogis's Warhound. I actually posted a BR aggro deck in the new card subforum splashing red for him, Dreadbore, and Lightning Strike maindeck. Pain Seer into bestowed Warhound is insane.

This is relevant to my interests.

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=2550

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4
Tormented Hero
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Pain Seer
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mogis's Warhound
4 Herald of Torment
3 Agent of the Fates

Spells (11)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Strike
3 Dreadbore

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Malice
4 Blood Crypt
3 Mana Confluence
7 Swamp
[/deck]

It's possible definitively true that Agent of the Fates should actually be Rakdos Cackler.

Fixed that for you.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ Val: I think it probably should be Cackler.

[DarthStabber]

If mogis's warhound doesn't hit this standard he will be a fine 2 drop choice post rotation.

When rotation hits we lose:
[cards]Ash zealot
Burning tree emissary
Firefist striker
Gore-house chainwalker
Young pyromancer
Spiked jester
Rakdos shred-freak[/cards]

[Lightning_Dolt]

We do get Pyrostatic Bear though...

[Kaitscralt]

You guys do remember that we all rocked a 2/2 for 4 CMC double strike at one time, right? Granted it did have undying, but hey....you never what the metagame will turn out to be a year from now.

Isn't there a quasi stonewright guy in this block too?

That undying card was really bad though, you Salvation guys were the only ones playing it

[Lightning_Dolt]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

[hamfactorial]

I had Hound of Griselbrand in the transformational sideboard of my Dos Rakis deck for most of a year, it was extremely good against my LGS which featured mostly Jund and UW control variants.

[Midnight_v]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

LOL he did, didn't he.

I saw came back to post about that damn speaker thinking that you could put him in a R/b deck with ... yeah ham beat me to it.
There's something I hate about this guy on some level, though. Its a card that I want to be good but... I'm not sure how he possibly could be in the current card pool. I guess he's like "If I stick, I'll win you the game". I mean you basically win with him by gassing your opponent then dropping him. . . or I guess gore-clan rampager works too. I'm just rambling here but he seems. so. slow.

HOUND WAS UNDYING. Huge fucking difference. I'd take the ham challenge for an undying version of this guy. . . oh and damned if thats not
great art though.

[DarthStabber]

So we have creatures as auras and creatures as pump spells, and with purphoros they're burn spells too.

[Self Medicated]

So we have creatures as auras and creatures as pump spells, and with purphoros they're burn spells too.

How exactly do enchantment creatures work with Purphoros? When you bestow them, they're auras. When they fall off a creature, they become a creature, but are they entering the battlefield?

[DarthStabber]

So we have creatures as auras and creatures as pump spells, and with purphoros they're burn spells too.

How exactly do enchantment creatures work with Purphoros? When you bestow them, they're auras. When they fall off a creature, they become a creature, but are they entering the battlefield?

Sadly that's a nonbo, they enter the battlefield as enchantments and become creatures when not attached, thus they never trigger purph when bestowed unless your opponent kills the targetted creature before the bestow resolves (in which case it enters the battlefield as a
creature and triggers purph normally)

[Self Medicated]

So we have creatures as auras and creatures as pump spells, and with purphoros they're burn spells too.

How exactly do enchantment creatures work with Purphoros? When you bestow them, they're auras. When they fall off a creature, they become a creature, but are they entering the battlefield?

Sadly that's a nonbo, they enter the battlefield as enchantments and become creatures when not attached, thus
they never trigger purph when bestowed unless your opponent kills the targetted creature before the bestow resolves (in which case it enters the battlefield as a creature and triggers purph normally)

This makes me sad.

[hamfactorial]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

There's literally no other way for him to have come about playing that card.

Kait does derision better, you should find a different niche

[LP, of the Fires]

It was actually very good for about a couple of months. Until gatecrash came out, the duo of Stonewright and Hound of griselbrand made me personally a decent amount of money and was overall just absurdly powerful.

Particularly if you where good at reading hands, you could sandbag a stonewright, bait a verdict and then just hit someone for 14 and end a game.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

There's literally no other way for him to have come about playing that card.

He asked Zem about the deck and had correspondence with him. The "Dirty Red Sledge" he passed off as his own was Zem / the Clan's.

[LP, of the Fires]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

There's literally no other way for him to have come about playing that card.

Kait does derision better, you should find a different niche

This is an entire clan full of increasingly worse red
aggro players. I think we're all allowed to be a little derivative of someone else at something.

Why are you even around? Seriously. I can't recall you every contributing anything(to magic related discussion at least) and you seem so salty all the time.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Twoo stole it and claimed it as his own tech.

There's literally no other way for him to have come about playing that card.

Kait does derision better, you should find a different niche

This is an entire clan full of increasingly worse
red aggro players. I think we're all allowed to be a little derivative of someone else at something.

I think we're getting better.

[Self Medicated]

I don't care about getting better. I'm just here for the cookies.

[LP, of the Fires]

FWIW, I haven't played Red Aggro in a tourney since December, and if I'm being honest with myself, that was a midrange deck(MDU's RW midrange deck that JS cashed Nagoya with), so it was actually more like October when I was on Pyro Red.

I think I'm either switching to AIR or some Athero's deck. I really want to Test the Junk Aristocrat deck since I THINK it does powerful things and now has a workable manabase.

[Pyreheart Bezerra]

Hound of Griselbrand was sweet tech. I agree that the loss of undying is big game, however in that loss we gain trample and Red's new "card draw". (Also Maro said it would show up at lower rarities, too!) So we will have to see. I want to slot it into a Red Sligh deck that MB's 2 hammers and curves out at Fanatic. I will start at 2/2 Reckoner/Flamespeaker split and adjust accordingly. Right now I think just overloading removal is the best course of action to make this guy stick.