LEGO Movie Mafia - Game Over - Town Win

[imopen2]

Twice, I may send the mod a phrase, not longer than 10 words, that is a direct game-thread quote. The mod will respond with whether that statement was truthful or a lie.

[Mcdonalds]

You can use it as a pseudo-cop ability if you have the right phrase, but only then basically

[hamfactorial]

Twice, I may send the mod a phrase, not longer than 10 words, that is a direct game-thread quote. The mod will respond with whether that statement was truthful or a lie.

Write any 10 word phrases you'd like me to say and I'll repost them. I assume the question of my alignment is the lingering one, so let's deal with it.

[RedNihilist]

Twice, I may send the mod a phrase, not longer than 10 words, that is a direct game-thread quote. The mod will respond with whether that statement was truthful or a lie.

So, the power is a two shot ability?
Does it have a cooldown or can you fire both the shells immediately?
You've got to "shot" during the day and you get the response over the night=

[RedNihilist]

Also, are you going to post your "I'm town" post or what?

[hamfactorial]

My suggestion:

"Hamfactorial, Azrael and Dechs Kaison are all town."

"LMD, rezombad and RedNihilist are all town."

Either of the two phrases, if true, give you a team of three confirmed townies.

If either is false, you have a three person team to pick through for scum.

If both are true, either you or MoJo is scum.

If you're scum, you'll lie, so I don't want you included in a three-person team to clear yourself. Otherwise, mix up the groups however you like.

[imopen2]

Ham, I don't think that's how my ability works. Since I don't know if those statements are true or false, I don't think stardust would tell me what I wante to hear. I think I have to use phrases where the poster is making a statement that they know to be true or false.

Red, it's two shot, and I didn't include any rules on a cooling off or a limit, so my impression is that I can use both immediately, and I should get a response during the phase I use it.

[hamfactorial]

Hmm, well you built it so I assume you'll make the right choice on how to put statements in.

[RedNihilist]

Ham, I don't think that's how my ability works. Since I don't know if those statements are true or false, I don't think stardust would tell me what I wante to hear. I think I have to use phrases where the poster is making a statement that they know to be true or false.

Red, it's two shot, and I didn't include any rules on a cooling off or a limit, so my impression is that I can use both immediately, and I should get a response during the phase I use it.

Ask the mod about the cooldown.
Tell us if you're town, because I feel like there's a non-zero chance of copycat's abilities lying around.

[Azrael]

We're running out of time. We need to consolidate votes and prepare for a lynch, regardless of what Mojo may or may not show up to do, or else we're going to wind up in a no-lynch.

[Azrael]

3 days, 17 hours as of this post.

[Dechs Kaison]

Hey everyone. Vote MoJo. His ballsy day one claim is the only reason we think he's town.

[hamfactorial]

unvote

Interesting thought, Dechs. He still hasn't told me the key word from his role PM, if that's worth anything.

[Dechs Kaison]

I'm already voting him, by the way. Have been for pages.

[hamfactorial]

Vote MoJo until he shoots someone or confirms the keyword.

[Mcdonalds]

Hey everyone. Vote MoJo. His ballsy day one claim is the only reason we think he's town.

Good point

vote mogadishu jones

[RedNihilist]

That's appropriate.

MoJo, you're at L-2 now, care to explain yourself?

[RedNihilist]

imopen I've asked you specifically to tell us if you're town or not, btw.

[imopen2]

I am Town. Not sure why you need me to post that.

[Dechs Kaison]

He already said: copycat ability. He thinks someone might have it and be able to turn yours against you if you're actually scum.

[Azrael]

unvote

Interesting thought, Dechs. He still hasn't told me the key word from his role PM, if that's worth anything.

[hamfactorial]

[Azrael]

I do not approve of the last minute Mojo push. His issues with the daykill is something we can safely investigate from him tomorrow when we have more time. Right now, we're asking for a stall-out.

Ham is our most viable wagon by far, and I'm perfectly comfortable knocking him out for our choice today. If we don't win the game with that play, I'll be a bit surprised.

[RedNihilist]

You've got to be kidding me.

Vote Mogadishu Jones

[imopen2]

I don't understand the copycat theory

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't understand the copycat theory

Someone could have built something that copies your invention. Or someone's ability could be to use another person's invention.

[Dechs Kaison]

MoJo's at L-1, Az. That's not a stallout, that's a lynch waiting for action.

That's the most viable lynch right now.

MoJo needs to show up and shoot someone, then his votes will disappear. Then we'll have at least one town controlled kill for the day and if he gets here fast enough we'll have time to lynch someone else.

If he doesn't, I'm assuming the worst and that he's scum who made some ridiculous claim day one.

[Azrael]

MoJo's at L-1, Az. That's not a stallout, that's a lynch waiting for action.

That's the most viable lynch right now.

MoJo needs to show up and shoot someone, then his votes will disappear. Then we'll have at least one town controlled kill for the day and if he gets here fast enough we'll have time to lynch someone else.

If he doesn't, I'm assuming the worst and that he's scum who made some ridiculous claim day one.

There's no reason to assume that kind of ridiculous claim is more likely to come from scum. None.

Instead of lynching the guy with an actual behavioral case against him, built upon a thoroughly redundant foundation of proven reliable tells, we're about to lynch a lurker/claimed vig over a single role-claim discrepancy that has no firm relationship with alignment whatsoever.

If you want to lynch scum, use behavior, use multiple tells, and put in thorough research of someone's entire history. Right now, we look less like intelligent, detail-oriented investigators and more like a bunch of ADHD kids throwing rocks at squirrels.

While I'm doing everything I can, I kind of doubt I'm going to live through the rest of this game unscathed. This might be my last shot to help you catch another scum. I'm hardly infallible, but take a hard look at what we're doing here. This is not a carefully thought out plan. This is not a case we've researched thoroughly. This is a complete shot in the dark, based on a complete LACK of information, rather than a wealth of information that actually does indicate that someone is scum.

I can't 100% guarantee the Ham case. It's still a great shot, I'd call it 75% on-target. But what I can definitely 100% guarantee is that the methodology behind it, looking at someone's entire history under a microscope, is a thousand times better than what we're doing here, now. Lynching people because you don't have the answer to a single, solitary question is how newb towns kill one another over misunderstandings.

Please. Use my knowledge while I'm still around to help you. Take out Ham, before he subverts enough gullible players to wriggle out of this.

[RedNihilist]

What's the point in letting somebody act like he did?
He's not contributing to the town's case, he's not explaining himself, to me he just appears to be a lurker who has started his game with a blatant lie then avoided confrontation about it.
How is that towny?
Show me the light, Master Azrael, as I still can't get myself to think that ham is scum.

[Azrael]

What's the point in letting somebody act like he did?
He's not contributing to the town's case, he's not explaining himself, to me he just appears to be a lurker who has started his game with a blatant lie then avoided confrontation about it.
How is that towny?
Show me the light, Master Azrael, as I still can't get myself to think that ham is scum.

It's not very townie. But it's not a scum tell, either. It's just a question we haven't had explained yet. It's not safe to draw assumptions off that single, unexplained data point.

You could easily spin that action in a couple different lights, as either townie playing badly, or scum playing WIFOM games, but I can't really see much reason to believe in one of those interpretations over the other.

It's like with the cases against Dechs, and me, from earlier. A mistake isn't the same thing as a scum tell. We're not looking for bad play, we're looking for multiple actions that are more likely to come from scum, than town.

Things such as:
1. Pushing weak cases overly aggressively (Ham)
2. Inability to fake a consistent mindset - actions and language are self-contradictory (Ham)
3. Scrupulous concern with maintaining an appearance of townishness and making nice with other players, while spending much less effort to actually help the town. (Ham)
4. Subtly pushing the town towards disastrous courses of action, with pernicious lynch advice and trying to establish false, role-based confirmations of himself and others (Ham)

[Azrael]

A lot of this stuff is the same kind of stuff that helped me spot GR. The way he presented his mindset just did not sound like a believable townie thought process, at all. He was hung up on things he shouldn't have been hung up on, having difficulty with decisions that shouldn't be difficult. Ham's issue is just a different manifestation of the same problem. He's able to sound somewhat natural from single post to single post, but his votes don't track well, and his moves from one position to the next don't make sense together.

Both Ham and GR have also spent a lot of time and effort trying to pick off Dechs, and relying on role-based reasons and talking up the value of their claimed roles to the town, to try to clear themselves. Ham's gone a step further, and also tried to come up with bogus reasons to clear himself.

Neither have been able to present good, townie emotional responses to the cases against them, and faking those reactions seems to be beyond their capabilities at this point.

Both seem to be experiencing significant tonal and stylistic changes in their posting style in this game, as compared to games in which they were townie. They interact with people differently. They're less relaxed, less prone to have cooperative dialogues with other players, and they reacted to new information differently, more naturally.

After going through Ham's history, the only factor I saw that really stuck in my craw as a possible townie indicator, was that he unvoted Dechs immediately after Dechs' self-vote. A lot of scum would be tempted to stick on that wagon, and see if someone else would finish him off. But that's all I could find for him. Ordinarily, if someone posts as much as Ham does, and they're town, I can figure that out pretty quick.

[hamfactorial]

What's the point in letting somebody act like he did?
He's not contributing to the town's case, he's not explaining himself, to me he just appears to be a lurker who has started his game with a blatant lie then avoided confrontation about it.
How is that towny?
Show me the light, Master Azrael, as I still can't get myself to think that ham is scum.

It's not very townie. But it's not a scum tell, either. It's just a question we haven't had explained yet. It's not safe to draw assumptions off that single, unexplained data point.

You could easily spin that action in a couple different lights, as either townie playing badly, or scum playing WIFOM games, but I can't really see much reason to believe in one of those interpretations over the other.

It's like with the cases against Dechs, and me, from earlier. A mistake isn't the same thing as a scum tell. We're not looking for bad play, we're looking for multiple actions that are more likely to come from scum, than town.

Things such as:
1. Pushing weak cases overly aggressively (Ham)
2. Inability to fake a consistent mindset - actions and language are self-contradictory (Ham)
3. Scrupulous concern with maintaining an appearance of townishness and making nice with other players, while spending much less effort to actually help the town. (Ham)
4. Subtly pushing the town towards disastrous courses of action, with pernicious lynch advice and trying to establish false, role-based confirmations of himself and others (Ham)

#1 - I wouldn't trot out that argument. Your continued push against me is overly aggressive and absolutely wrong, and will shred your credibility once I flip.

#2 - I've consistently behaved in a manner that suggests I'm annoyed by you and your multiple-week tunnel on me. You think I could fake being this irritated by you, especially after your D2 gambit which I smacked down immediately without any backpedaling?

#3 - An appearance of townishness? Get out of here. If I was maintaining an appearance of townishness, you wouldn't be on my ass. You can't say "HE'S SO SCUMMY GET HIM!" and then accuse me of appearing town in the same breath.

#4 - You think my role PM keyword confirmation is false? Sure thing boss. It seems to have struck a chord with other players here, some who I suspect share an element of my role PM. Maybe you aren't convinced by it, as evidenced by your D1 confusion over how plan submissions worked.

[Stardust]

Votecount!

Mogadishu Jones (4): Dechs Kaison, hamfactorial, Lord_Mcdonalds, RedNihilist
imopen2 (1): Mogadishu Jones
hamfactorial (1): Azrael

Not voting: imopen2, rezombad

With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.



Mogadishu Jones has been prodded.


2 Days, 6 hours to deadline. Deadline Clock.

[Azrael]

#1 - I wouldn't trot out that argument. Your continued push against me is overly aggressive and absolutely wrong, and will shred your credibility once I flip.

You keep on pushing this manipulative wording as your chief defense: "look at all the bad things that will happen to you if you're wrong about me! Your credibility will be shredded! You will have killed a really powerful role!"

That's pretty classic scum bargaining for their life type stuff there.

#2 - I've consistently behaved in a manner that suggests I'm annoyed by you and your multiple-week tunnel on me. You think I could fake being this irritated by you, especially after your D2 gambit which I smacked down immediately without any backpedaling?

No, I think you're probably genuinely annoyed with me. That doesn't mean you're town, though. Annoyed townies have a WHOLE different set of reactions to misplaced pressure, that you're not showing. It manifests differently.

Your annoyance is more like GR's grudging, sullen variety, the kind scum show when they're annoyed at being caught out, or think the person who caught them's being annoying in some way.

#3 - An appearance of townishness? Get out of here. If I was maintaining an appearance of townishness, you wouldn't be on my ass. You can't say "HE'S SO SCUMMY GET HIM!" and then accuse me of appearing town in the same breath.

I said you were trying to maintain it, not that you succeeded. When someone's faking it really conspiciously, it looks pretty different from the genuine article. Townies don't ever really have to "try" to look townish. They just do it effortlessly, like breathing.

You go out of your way to try to simulate it.

#4 - You think my role PM keyword confirmation is false? Sure thing boss. It seems to have struck a chord with other players here, some who I suspect share an element of my role PM. Maybe you aren't convinced by it, as evidenced by your D1 confusion over how plan submissions worked.

Yeah, that's probably a real element from your role PM. But I don't feel comfortable drinking that kool-aid of assuming that just because you have role PM knowledge that demonstrates you can build things, that you're automatically town. Wouldn't care to put money on second-guessing how the mod built this game. Shaky stuff, there.

[Azrael]

Yo. If someone has yet to submit their plans for the day, you might wanna consider the following:

"Choose a player during the day. That player's next project has its build time reduced by one day."

I got a single day back for that particular plan.

[Dechs Kaison]

Yo. If someone has yet to submit their plans for the day, you might wanna consider the following:

"Choose a player during the day. That player's next project has its build time reduced by one day."

I got a single day back for that particular plan.

I submitted that very same invention, except that I called it a time machine. I will confirm the time to create is one day.

I did not begin building said invention.

[rezombad]

back from a bender, let's see what i missed

[rezombad]

vote hamfactorial

az's case is better than the case against kpaca.

[Azrael]

1 day, 19 hours.

[imopen2]

i'd like kpaca to give us something. i don't really think ham is scum. still think az could be