[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[rcwraspy]

Considering the attitudes of the majority of the MTG community, any resentment is likely people seeing a piece of themselves they don't like.

Lol what?

Ari's getting heat for things MANY (if not most) mtg players do. It's hypocritical.

I still don't understand your initial statement.

If I'm critical of Ari's behavior, then that only means I'm upset with myself? There's no other possibility?

I'm automatically a hypocrite, even if I would (and do) criticize anyone else who acts similarly, and don't at all act that way myself, and neither do any of the players that I praise?

The word likely allows for other possibilities.

[DroppinSuga]

To my Southern brethren, I'll be moving to the Charlotte area in two weeks. My wife is down there at this moment finding us a home. I think we'll be living in the Mooresville, NC area, but it depends on where she can find a place.

There's a bunch of houses out in Indian Trail/Matthews/Monroe area that are super cheap at the moment.

I'd advise against living north of Charlotte, the traffic is horrendous. Live south of the city if you're moving here.

That may be just where they are staying in the hotel, actually. I think they're looking for houses south of Charlotte, because I got off the phone with her a few minutes ago and they said they were near SC

[LP, of the Fires]

Rc's statement is apt because most magic players are socially awkward tools.

Ari showing McLaren the win was just an act in not slowrolling your opponent. It's something you generally aren't expecting to see in the finals of the PT but it happens all the time. The only reason McLaren didn't played it out was because he thought Ari might have to use his Mana Confluence when he was at 1 life.

Also, magic tourneys are surprisingly stressful and I can imagine the Pro Tour amplifying that a lot.

[Mcdonalds]

So he talks out loud, that it?

Edit: once again missed most of a page

[Christen]

I can't relate to why a lot of players is giving Ari Lax heat on his behavior. When I get in to a match myself sometimes I try and call out my opponent's plays before they happen. It's part of the psyche war that can actually tilt your opponent if they're weak-willed. Otherwise, it's always nice to interact with your opponent since it's actually a game. I haven't found an opponent that was too awkward to interact with yet, so maybe it's just how the local community goes.

[LP, of the Fires]

Waiting until your turn to untap and cast spells and attack is not slow rolling. I've actually never seen anything like what he did on camera or in person before outside of extremely casual games at lunch, and only then to speed things up to get more games in before lunch ends.

You must not play a lot of competitive magic then. It happens ALL the time where someone taps out or whatever to play a spell, then you just show the 3 lighting strikes you're gonna kill them with. It saves time, and brainpower for everyone so that you can quickly move on to the next game.

[DroppinSuga]

I think we also have to remember that Ari was about to win like what? 40 grand and earn platinum status. He attained a dream and was totally elated to finally realize that dream. I can't fault the guy one bit.

[LP, of the Fires]

Platinum by the way means Airfaire and hotel payed to every pro tour(thousands of dollars) and a 3 or 5k appearance fee to each pro tour for this season and next season(7 PTs...you do the math)

[DroppinSuga]

Platinum by the way means Airfaire and hotel payed to every pro tour(thousands of dollars) and a 3 or 5k appearance fee to each pro tour for this season and next season(7 PTs...you do the math)

Exactly. Dude can play Magic as a comfortable job.

[Valdarith]

Ari's actions were nothing out of the ordinary. He was certainly excited to topdeck that Elspeth, but he wasn't out of order or anything. Hell, the game is so dry most of the time that it's nice for someone to be so enthusiastic for once.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'll admit that I normally find overly expressive opponents annoying, but in high stress situations, it's much more acceptable since there's some amount of drama to the game at that point and the stakes are actually real.

[zemanjaski]

^ this. I think it's actually poor etiquette not to just show them it's over ASAP.

[rcwraspy]

He had to do it a second time because McLaren didn't scoop to him. And he didn't need to - McLaren's fighting for the same thing Lax is there. Make your opponent do it properly - nothing wrong with that. Ari just got really excited.

Also, just want to clear something up that you mentioned earlier. You said "I get that you know him" or something like that. I've played against him a few times - mostly Modern and Vintage - and have casually chatted with him during and after matches. But I wouldn't say I know him. I very much doubt he knows my name. He'd probably recognize me, but that's about it. At the end of the day he doesn't need me defending him. Dude just won the PT. I just don't understand why people are bashing him when you see stuff like that, and much weirder, at every tournament.

[rcwraspy]

I think we're finding through this very discourse that "obnoxious" is highly subjective.

[rcwraspy]

For instance, I find it "obnoxious" that some people choose to judge someone else for getting excited over something he clearly put a LOT of time and effort into.

[TBuzzsaw]

A lot of MTG players (or people in general) like to have a holier than thou attitude so it's no surprise regarding the reaction Ari is getting. Let's not forget Asscrack Watergate earlier this year.

[zemanjaski]

I have no issue with Ari at the PT, but outside if that he's got a reputation for being obnoxious and arrogant (I wonder if we would get along?), so it's good to hear from people have interacted with him that it's unjustified. Magic players are the saltiest losers after all and Ari wins a lot.

[Purp]

Not tryin to hate too hard on Ari, he won a PT which I will never do nor will I ever qualify for...but, he is the guy invite to your house party that gets really drunk and creeps on all the girls. You have to defend him to all the girls since he is your bro, thus you get no pussy either.

[Lightning_Dolt]

You neckbeards realize we had this exact same conversation about Tom Martell right?

Who gives a shit about Ari Lax. He has forty thousand dollars and you don't. Deal with it.

I like Tom Martell.

[Christen]

Can't we just agree to disagree? People will hate him, people will like him, some won't even care.

[DroppinSuga]

James how many kangaroos can I buy with forty grand?

Do you want the boxing type or the chill type?

[rcwraspy]

For instance, I find it "obnoxious" that some people choose to judge someone else for getting excited over something he clearly put a LOT of time and effort into.

Like Godwin's law, I wish someone would name the phenomenon when someone reverts to an unhelpful, circular argument when they disagree with someone but can't explain why, taking some faux high ground. Whining about other people whining, complaining about other people complaining, etc.

I realize all of you fancy yourselves awesome and the cardboard wizard bravado is always overflowing on these forums, but it's just delusional to deny that behavior like Ari's, regardless (or perhaps in part because) of how common it might be among "hard core" players, can understandably rub people the wrong way.

As opposed to reverting to painting anonymous internet forum-goers into a large category they likely don't even fit in?

You say I can't explain myself. Fine, I'll bite. Exactly what don't you understand? I'll put it in bullets to be sure you don't miss anything:

- Ari Lax just won the Pro Tour. The largest, most coveted event in competitive Magic. It can be likened to winning the World Series or the Super Bowl in their respective pursuits. Should those players not show emotion when they win? I believe every single World Series winner in recent history has celebrated with champagne live on TV for everybody to witness. Is that equally deplorable? I say no.

- They all put in countless hours perfecting their skills to achieve that outcome. They all went through very stressful (with respect to those games) moments. No doubt they're full of adrenaline. Should they be expected to fully contain it at all times? Again, I say no.

- Every person on the planet expresses themselves differently. I submit that we should not judge someone for how they exhibit their enthusiasm. Glass houses and all that.

- For my part, I have been around Ari a small amount. I have lost to him and I have beaten him in games of Magic. None had the stigma nor the gravitas of a Pro Tour finals, but my experience is that he was equally gracious in each circumstance. Therefore if I found his actions distasteful (which I don't), I would give him the benefit of the doubt because of those experiences.

- I also don't like that the people judging him for his exuberance don't know what it's like to be in his position. You yourself admitted that you don't play much competitive Magic. While that's certainly not a bad thing, it does mean that you might not have an appreciation for how much work and effort (and sometimes sacrifice) that can go into preparing for these events. This has also been a lifetime journey for him.

- I also dislike that people can't just genuinely be happy for someone when they excel. It's not like Ari jumped out of his seat, punched a baby, grabbed his crotch and shouted "suck it, mothafuckas! I'm the best!"

[nme]

For instance, I find it "obnoxious" that some people choose to judge someone else for getting excited over something he clearly put a LOT of time and effort into.

Like Godwin's law, I wish someone would name the phenomenon when someone reverts to an unhelpful, circular argument when they disagree with someone but can't explain why, taking some faux high ground. Whining about other people whining, complaining about other people complaining, etc.

I realize all of you fancy yourselves awesome and the cardboard wizard bravado is always overflowing on these forums, but it's just delusional to deny that behavior like Ari's, regardless (or perhaps in part because) of how common it might be among "hard core" players, can understandably rub people the wrong way.

Some people can be "rubbed the wrong way" when you say good game and try to shake their hand after beating them. It should be no surprise to anyone that the same delicate flowers would view Ari's personality as douchey. People are free to have their opinions, but the complaints would be a bit more reasonable if Ari had acted like Phil Hellmuth, for example. Thank god that fucker doesn't play magic, or there would a shit storm every PT.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, magic players are typically very precious. The prevalent belief in the mtg community that a winner cannot thank the lower for the games without the loser first acknowledging the match is an example that irks me - and yes, me calling others precious is hypocritical but at least I'm aware if the double standard and two wrongs don't make a right.

[Dechs Kaison]

I can't believe you nerds are watching a bunch of other nerds play card games, let alone how you're providing commentary.

The League of Legends World Championship is happening. This year has been amazing.

[zemanjaski]

I love lol / Dota 2; they hit the right mix of relatively low technical skip cap (good thing, makes the game way more accessible for new players and spectators), couple with a team economy and human element that make for a more engaging community and viewing experience - these games, and not Starcraft 2, are destined to be the inheritors of the e-sports empire. While part if me is still scornful that the top league players are tier 3/4 gamers in a strictly technical sense, there is no denying what these games have done in terms if broader societal penetration, market growth and wealth creation. Great stuff.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Is Purphoros in a deck with 12 token generators too cute?

[zemanjaski]

I'd hardly call Purphoros kawaii.

[hamfactorial]

Can someone link me to a video where Ari displays the behavior in question? He's always struck me as a well-meaning sperg, harmless but kind of irritating in tone. My LGS had several like that, irksome to play against.

[zemanjaski]

I don't think it's worth debating the mechanical aspects of the different games - I'm very biased from my time as a wc3 semi-pro back in 2004-08; but all that matters is community and exposure; league and sits are just MUCH better spectator sports.

[zemanjaski]

I also think the team evonomy aspect is just the best thing in e-sports; it's what made CS soooooo much better than every other game.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, fighting games have always had good communities. Of every gaming community I've been involved in, mtg has by far the most toxic player base unfortunately.

[zemanjaski]

Fair. For whatever reason I find that more acceptable I guess.

[nme]

Dota 2 has the absolute worst gaming community of any game I've played. They can all be pretty terrible at times, but Dota is the only game I've lost interest in because of the community, which is a shame because I love everything else about it.

[zemanjaski]

What happened?

[Tyrael]

I have no issue with Ari at the PT, but outside if that he's got a reputation for being obnoxious and arrogant (I wonder if we would get along?), so it's good to hear from people have interacted with him that it's unjustified. Magic players are the saltiest losers after all and Ari wins a lot.

[zemanjaski]

Pot, meet kettle.

[Mcdonalds]

I can't believe you nerds are watching a bunch of other nerds play card games, let alone how you're providing commentary.

The League of Legends World Championship is happening. This year has been amazing.

That shit was boring, we all knew Samsung White was going to shit down everyone else's necks.

I figured blue would take them to game 5 at least

But yeah, the format is much better than last year but the games aren't interesting, groups a/b were complete duds

That and the #1 Chinese and European team randomly shit the bed

[nme]

What happened?

I just got tired of dealing with people in the game. It became one of those things where I'd open the client and close it immediately because I didn't feel like hearing people curse at each other in languages I can't speak. "maricón" and "сука" are phrases that shouldn't be burned into my brain. I still play ranked occasionally with a group of my buddies, but I won't touch public matchmaking.

I can't speak for the e-sports side of the community though, last I checked it was growing and was pretty damn awesome.

*edit- I used to be big into LoL and I was sad when CLG.EU disbanded. At least Froggen and Wickd are still on the same team.

[Mcdonalds]

Dota is the only game I know that actively turns otherwise normal accepting people into racist homophobes