SOA Mafia: Season One -- Day Four

[rianalnn]

The dog's got a point. I'd been reading Jamie as town, but now that I take a look back it doesn't look great. He hammered yesterday without additonal reasoning and most of his contributions were either defensive or random points. The only really townie sounding stuff was when he was attacking kpaca early on.

What are we at? Five to lynch? Sure, let's get a wagon going.

Unvote, Vote Jamie.

Why such a quick waffle? You note why you switched to Jamie, but what was your read on me and was it that weak that you could jump so easily?

BARK!

[Stardust]

...was it that weak that you could jump so easily?

Yes.

You're a lead. My vote was for information more than anything. Then a better wagon showed up on actual scum, so I went with that.

[rcwraspy]

mkay. I'm going to want you to case me later if you still think I'm a "lead."

[hamfactorial]

Stardust:

How do you know Jamie is actual scum?

[rcwraspy]

Stardust:

How do you know Jamie is actual scum?

I'd actually like to know your thoughts on Jamie before we hear from Stardust.

[hamfactorial]

Stardust:

How do you know Jamie is actual scum?

I'd actually like to know your thoughts on Jamie before we hear from Stardust.

I'd actually like you to shut your filthy pie hole, kid.

I'm historically bad at reading lurky people, and Jamie hasn't said enough to give me any indication of his alignment. All I can do is look at the wagon. I would have voted for DK, so Jamie didn't have to be the scum hammer.

I don't agree that his hammer needed any additional reasoning. The analysis was already done by Stardust, RedNihilist and kpaca, with some minor flavor contribution and a 7/2/1 vs 6/3/1 analysis by me.

What was Jamie supposed to do? Rezombad said even less when he voted for Dechs and Stardust isn't giving him a hard time over it.

[rianalnn]

Ham knows the flavor so scrum targets him to prevent future flavor-reads.

*kpaca points to the above quote*

*kpaca thinks about how the first person to bring up a justification for a nk is geneally newb scum*

BARK BARK BARK BARK WOOF WOOF BARK!

[hamfactorial]

kpaca is right, I encountered this in Gone Postal where Wraith223 played scum for the first time. He threw out an implausibly strange scenario (a scum-controlled global mail redirect) as explanation for crossed up messages instead of just saying "I dunno, the mail was weird last night".

[rcwraspy]

Stardust:

How do you know Jamie is actual scum?

I'd actually like to know your thoughts on Jamie before we hear from Stardust.

I'd actually like you to shut your filthy pie hole, kid.

I'm historically bad at reading lurky people, and Jamie hasn't said enough to give me any indication of his alignment. All I can do is look at the wagon. I would have voted for DK, so Jamie didn't have to be the scum hammer.

I don't agree that his hammer needed any additional reasoning. The analysis was already done by Stardust, RedNihilist and kpaca, with some minor flavor contribution and a 7/2/1 vs 6/3/1 analysis by me.

What was Jamie supposed to do? Rezombad said even less when he voted for Dechs and Stardust isn't giving him a hard time over it.

I don't want to derail the Jamie wagon (though I'm not going to vote Jamie quite yet), but IGMEOY. Helping with the flavor with our neutral lynch gives you some small amount of town points, but asking Stardust this question at this time detracts from that.

[hamfactorial]

Stardust says this -

...was it that weak that you could jump so easily?

Yes.

You're a lead. My vote was for information more than anything. Then a better wagon showed up on actual scum, so I went with that.

(relevant section bolded for emphasis)

So I asked him why he thinks Jamie is "actual scum". How is this a problem? If you're town, wouldn't you like to know why Stardust thinks Jamie is scum?

Keep your eye on me all you like, but I've been at the head of the table for years and I'm not about to get pushed around by some piss-ant prospect. Last night's bullet can't even take me down, why should I be afraid of you and your keyboard?

[rcwraspy]

bah, forgot that you survived what is assumed to be a night kill. Ok, that puts you much closer to town.

[hamfactorial]

I'm assuming you're town since you would know I was targeted last night.

[rianalnn]

*kpaca licks both ham and rcw, happily assuming they are good people*

[rezombad]

Ham knows the flavor so scrum targets him to prevent future flavor-reads.

*kpaca points to the above quote*

*kpaca thinks about how the first person to bring up a justification for a nk is geneally newb scum*

BARK BARK BARK BARK WOOF WOOF BARK!

I'm pretty sure you're barking up the wrong tree

[Stardust]

I'm assuming you're town since you would know I was targeted last night.

Huh, yeah, that's a good point. Scum would definitely know you're confirmed town and probably try to gain townie points by saying it. Cool.

Jamie's actual scum because I'm currently reading him as scum. rcw had some question marks, so I voted him. My vote on Jamie is way more real than that. It's an actual vote on actual scum.

If rcw is town, POE points at RedNihilist and LMD as potentials. Both of you please give some detailed thoughts on Jamie in your next post.

[rcwraspy]

"POE"?

[rcwraspy]

oh, duh. process of elimination.

[Mcdonalds]

I'm fine with a Jamie lynch, I can elaborate on that when I get to my laptop

@jamie what are your thoughts on stardust?

[RedNihilist]

I'm assuming you're town since you would know I was targeted last night.

Huh, yeah, that's a good point. Scum would definitely know you're confirmed town and probably try to gain townie points by saying it. Cool.

Jamie's actual scum because I'm currently reading him as scum. rcw had some question marks, so I voted him. My vote on Jamie is way more real than that. It's an actual vote on actual scum.

If rcw is town, POE points at RedNihilist and LMD as potentials. Both of you please give some detailed thoughts on Jamie in your next post.

I feel like he's being really jumpy, and I didn't really like this post from him.

Basically you can boil his posts down to:
- let's hang lassie because I said so (policy lynch?);
- oooops I'm an idiot;
- let's sling some mud towards RN and LMD just to hide the fact I'm not contributing;
- lynch DK;
- today's post.

He's not contributing and, even though I don't really feel like kpaca's tell on him is *that* strong, his posts history says that he deserves at least some pressure.

[rianalnn]

I'm assuming you're town since you would know I was targeted last night.

Huh, yeah, that's a good point. Scum would definitely know you're confirmed town and probably try to gain townie points by saying it. Cool.

Jamie's actual scum because I'm currently reading him as scum. rcw had some question marks, so I voted him. My vote on Jamie is way more real than that. It's an actual vote on actual scum.

If rcw is town, POE points at RedNihilist and LMD as potentials. Both of you please give some detailed thoughts on Jamie in your next post.

*kpaca points his nose at rezombad*

[Stardust]

I think rezombad is town. Not 100% sure, but he seems his normal self.

[RedNihilist]

That being said, I think that raspy's either pulling a marvelous stunt with his "IGMEOY" -> "that puts you closer to town (but doesn't really clear you" with ham or I'm missing something, because I don't see how ham cannot be considered confirmed town by now o_O

[Stardust]

Right, ham is confirmed town. Scum for sure would know that and I think would either not mention it at all or mention it for townie points. For sure they wouldn't show that level of paranoia.

Marvellous stunt is always possible, but this points strongly to rcw as town.

[Jamie]

rianalnn that post was a joke. Ham was being hounded for flavor and then he gets targeted.
The flavor-reads were actually useless so the situation was comical. Even if I watched the show I'd value flavor zero or less.

[Jamie]

Don't really understand how you can say that I'm not contributing when you pointed out 5 other things that I did

[rianalnn]

rianalnn that post was a joke. Ham was being hounded for flavor and then he gets targeted.
The flavor-reads were actually useless so the situation was comical. Even if I watched the show I'd value flavor zero or less.

*grrrrrrrr*

[Mcdonalds]

Yeah people using flavor gaming as an actual argument has been a thing so be a bit clearer

Regardless, that doesn't really help your case that much

[Jamie]

I'm fine with a Jamie lynch, I can elaborate on that when I get to my laptop

@jamie what are your thoughts on stardust?

This game, he's the most aggressive person trying to find weakness and pick on them. Last game he didn't act this way to such an extent but there were other more aggressive players unlike this game (except maybe dechs), and also he had a special case with his role.
I don't have an opinion on him! Seems like a good player playing the game and doing the right thing.

That being said, I think that raspy's either pulling a marvelous stunt with his "IGMEOY" -> "that puts you closer to town (but doesn't really clear you" with ham or I'm missing something, because I don't see how ham cannot be considered confirmed town by now o_O

In other news, RedNihilist says something that isn't fluff or hopping on a safe-play bandwagon!

[Stardust]

Who would you like to lynch right now, Jamie?

[Mcdonalds]

@jamie, so do you think stardust is town, he's got one of the higher post counts this game so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to draw an opinion on him?

[WitchHunt]

Catch up on what I missed in day two, give me just a minute.

[WitchHunt]

Reasonable amount of pressure being put on Jaime at this point, from the justification to his defending of his justification as it being a joke post. I'm getting mixed feelings from Jaime here, and just a bunch of people who are on both sides of his actions.

I'm fine with a Jamie lynch, I can elaborate on that when I get to my laptop

@jamie what are your thoughts on stardust?

I'm interested to hear about the elaboration when you get the time, I've been wanting to hear more from you for a while. I'm in agreement however on Jaime needing more of a tell on Stardust considering his activity this game. I feel more like the pair's interaction this game have been one of the more interesting things considering it's been pretty back and forth, I feel like Jaime should have more of an opinion on him at this point.

Something I've noticed, whenever Jamie has posted pretty much... well anything that's gotten negative feedback he's always said something along the lines of "It was just a joke" or "Man I'm dumb". How many times are the things you say not going to be serious Jamie?

[Mcdonalds]

Sure

At that moment, I hadn't seen Jamie most recent two posts, so I actually assumed he was serious for a bit, I didn't think the assertion that scum would want to kill Ham for knowing the flavor was bad or ridiculous, it was that he came off as sure that was the case, after seeing those two, now I just ask why, you aren't exactly looked at as town by a good chunk of the town and (until proven otherwise somehow) aren't confirmed town, his posts towards Red come off as mudslinging so far, sure Red has posted little, but so what, his few posts have been soild IMO.

Him stating he doesn't have an opinion on stardust is questionable, for reasons I've already elaborated on

[Mcdonalds]

Waiting on an official votecount to vote (had a bit to drink so I'm not gonna say/do things I can't take back ) but I'm ready to vote him

[rezombad]

Rcw is so town, I love it.

Witchhunt, a couple things;

1. Stardust asked you to ask Jaime 2 questions yesterday, and you acknowledged the request and never did it. Though you did post this:

"My original thought on Jamie turning out to be scum is turning around on me. He hasn't been crumbling like he did previously, he's explaining his actions effectively, I'm actually pretty impressed at this point. Points for townie here."

2. You yourself, have had at least one half of a joke post. Keep that in mind.

Stardust, you are not following up with your questions, why? Also this:

"
Dechs, your case on Jamie is extremely weak. The post I pointed to as reading town is so overtly aggressive. Nothing there is underhanded - he's stating his intention very clearly. If you actually believe his story (I do), it makes perfect sense in context and looks to me like that's his natural way of playing this game. The error that he made with kpaca's vote is also something that a townie is more likely to do. Certainly it must be an error, because scum would never intentionally distort the truth that far, but I also think that scum would never make that error (and jump on kpaca in error) to begin with."

Go ahead and walk me through, specifically, why you are so eager to lynch Jamie.

Kpaca said so is not an acceptable response. Think for yourself, please.

[Jamie]

@jamie, so do you think stardust is town, he's got one of the higher post counts this game so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to draw an opinion on him?

Sure. He's the first or second on a wagon while traditionally third or fourth on a wagon should be suspicious votes. He's pretty town and his aggressive play makes me believe he's pretty skilled through intimidation. That intimidation had me wanting to compare a scum-dust world with a town-dust world, and my gut tells me the are equally likely.
But that's me playing wifom with myself so I should go for the pro-town-stardust world, based on facts.

[WitchHunt]

True, but I was coming fresh out of my RVS when I did mine, his was the first post out of day two. I personally feel like the difference in timing should be more relevant, and it's not the first time he made the joke defense. After Kpaca pointed out it was something noob scum would do and pressure gets put on him it's suddenly a joke. I don't like it.

Trying to come up with questions on the spot was a little more difficult than I thought it would be. Right when the request was made, DK started his descent into crumbling and my attention became more focused on him. Jamie's on my radar again currently, as my initial read on him was town, but like I said he's been describing his "mistakes" as "I'm an idiot" and "it was a joke" and it has me a bit put off at this point. Looking at it his posts with those excuses in mind it's making keep a closer eye on him, questions to ask are starting to come more obvious to me.

Pedit: I'm a bit happier with this post Jamie, but Stardust did still pose a question to you.

[Jamie]

Pedit: I'm a bit happier with this post Jamie, but Stardust did still pose a question to you.

I wanted to ignore it because I wanted to hear what my list of people had to say first, but I don't think posting my list will change anything they would say, so I'll answer that question now.

[Jamie]

Who would you like to lynch right now, Jamie?

My top 3 are LMD RedNihilist and Witchhunt:



RedNihilist is spiteful and it makes me doubt my suspicion because my suspicions on him 'could just be spite' to his mean posts. Consider this post

RedNihilist and LMD have said effectively nothing except votes on bandwagons

Is this just mud that's being slinged around or can you effectively back up those accusations?
Because I don't really recognize myself in the portrait you're drawing here, but I'm open to discussion if you feel like you're onto something with me or LMD.
I feel doubtful, though.

Was that last sentence really needed? I feels more mean than telling. Is he not confident that he hid something well enough, so he is overly defensive? Is he normally this mean? I put such an insignificant amount of pressure on him and get such a reply... I feel like I can't trust myself on a vote because I'm angry at such a post.
Yeah, rednihilist makes me angry and I don't feel that is grounds for a full vote, since I can't consider it a tell.


WitchHunt was the one of the least-town people and then he just supported a Jamie-lynch wagon without commiting a vote. Maybe he's waiting for a votecount or doesn't want me lynched just yet. Either way he's very not-town but barely scum at all.

And then LMD agreed with witchhunt's analysis in a way I, personally, would have communicated if I were a LMD-witchhunt mafia team.

[RedNihilist]

Is a post like that really considered mean?
You've got to be kidding me.
I called you out on the fact that you didn't actually put *any* kind of pressure on anyone, you just attempted to lurk your way out on day 1 and, when people noticed you, you just pointed your finger at me and LMD trying to deflect attention.

I actually asked you to go on with your accusations in order to have you generate some more content, but you decided to avoid doing such a thing.
Now, I'm sorry that you're "angry" at my posts, but you can't SERIOUSLY expect to have people not notice the way you're just avoiding commitment and trying to dodge pressure.