Rx Burn
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- GoblinWarchief
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You can't argue that playing 3 colors rather than 2 is not a cost. The cost is taking an average of 6 damages from your lands (fetch + untapped shockland) every game, or slow down your gameplan by fetching tapped shocklands, not to mention that sometimes you could be color screwed. I agree that atarka's command is on par with boros charm for powerlevel, but this doesn't change the fact that decks like zoo and affinity have an average faster goldfish than burn if undisrupted because they play more efficient creatures than us. Against these decks, everytime you take 3 damages you are possibly losing a drawstep because they might kill you before you kill them. Even against decks like abzan, g/w, really anything that can remotely present a race with creatures, taking too much damages from lands can result in one less drawstep, that may be the one you need to topdeck the final burn spells. Now, if i knew i would be playing all the time against control or combo, for sure i would be playing all the most efficient burn spells and don't care about damage at all .... but this is not the case, and while atarka's command deserves attention, it is not guaranteed that the 3 color build with command and charm is the best.
At this point i think we could consider 3 builds : boros with revelries in sideboard, naya with both command and charm maindeck, or even straight gruul if you decide that command is even better than boros charm and don't want to go tricolor. The best build probably depends from the metagame, the less aggro you see the more incentive you have to play 3color. If my meta was infested with affinity, i would probably just play mono red and be happy with it. Now the current top decks are infect, affinity, abzan, twin, and burn. Playing 3 colors you have a worse matchup against affinity and the mirror, but a better one against infect abzan and twin. The choice is up to you.
And by the way, congratulations for the result warwizard !
At this point i think we could consider 3 builds : boros with revelries in sideboard, naya with both command and charm maindeck, or even straight gruul if you decide that command is even better than boros charm and don't want to go tricolor. The best build probably depends from the metagame, the less aggro you see the more incentive you have to play 3color. If my meta was infested with affinity, i would probably just play mono red and be happy with it. Now the current top decks are infect, affinity, abzan, twin, and burn. Playing 3 colors you have a worse matchup against affinity and the mirror, but a better one against infect abzan and twin. The choice is up to you.
And by the way, congratulations for the result warwizard !
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My list (still missing guides but its what i have sleeved)
[deck]
4 Guide
4 Swiftspear
2 Grim
4 Eidolon
4 Bolt
4 Spike
4 Charm
4 Command
3 Searing Blaze
1 Lightning Helix
1 Skullcrack (or maybe its a 2nd helix, deck box isnt near me)
2 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
3 Mountain
3 Sacred
2 Stomping
11 Fetches
Sb
4 Dest Rev
2 Path
2 Molten Rain
3 Kor
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
[/deck]
I imagine your's cant be too far off.
[deck]
4 Guide
4 Swiftspear
2 Grim
4 Eidolon
4 Bolt
4 Spike
4 Charm
4 Command
3 Searing Blaze
1 Lightning Helix
1 Skullcrack (or maybe its a 2nd helix, deck box isnt near me)
2 Shard Volley
4 Rift Bolt
3 Mountain
3 Sacred
2 Stomping
11 Fetches
Sb
4 Dest Rev
2 Path
2 Molten Rain
3 Kor
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
[/deck]
I imagine your's cant be too far off.
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I know I may sound stupid, but I don't get this:
Make a copy on your EOT so I can attack with it while keeping the original goyf ready for blocks?
It doesn't seem very efficient to me.
What's the point of enchanting a goyf?-Don’t underestimate a Twin player’s resourcefulness. A Splinter Twin attached to a Snapcaster Mage or a Tarmogoyf can win games just as easily as putting it on a Pestermite.
Make a copy on your EOT so I can attack with it while keeping the original goyf ready for blocks?
It doesn't seem very efficient to me.
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Yep. Believe it or not, it works. I've lost that way more than once.
Twin has to win somehow when the game drags on. You may be trying to topdeck some lethal burn, but they're going to try to find a way to survive and win in the meantime.
Twin has to win somehow when the game drags on. You may be trying to topdeck some lethal burn, but they're going to try to find a way to survive and win in the meantime.
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
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There's a bit of hyperbole in that statement because grinding with Twin that way isn't "just as easy", but it is a legitimate plan.
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I'm gonna use your deck as a reference for all of this. I can't find anything wrong with the list and my lists usually change by a couple cards and stuff every other day.
[deck]
Creature 14
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Burn 27
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Shard Volley
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
3 Searing Blaze
1 Lightning Helix
1 Skullcrack
Land 19
3 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard 15
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Molten Rain
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
[/deck]
Affinity:
The thing with running Command main means that you're stuck in 3 colors for Game 1, which is very painful. I'd normally recommend cutting a color postboard, which would be White, but your sideboard isn't quite set up for that.
With that said, I'd probably do something like this:
On the draw-
Out: 4xEidolon of the Great Revel, 4x Boros Charm
In: 4x Destructive Revelry, 2xPath to Exile, 2x Deflecting Palm (to make them taste it when they attack with a Cranial Plating + dude)
On the play-
Out: 4xEidolon of the Great Revel, 2xBoros Charm
In: 4x Destructive Revelry, 2xPath to Exile
Twin:
I'm always cautious about siding in Revelry in this match sometimes because you're usually just guaranteed to hit a Spellskite (which isn't always bad). Sometimes Twin takes out the combo out, sometimes not. And other times, you just don't have access to the mana, especially when your land gets tapped down. 2 is about where I stand firm if they're gonna be brought in.
On the draw-
Out: 2xShard Volley (doesn't play nicely against Spellskite and hard counters), 2xRift Bolt (just too slow, especially on the draw and doesn't play well against the turn 2 Spellskite), 1xSkullcrack, 1xAtarka's Command:
In: 2xPath to Exile, 2xRending Volley, 2xDestructive Revelry
On the play-
Out: 1xSkullcrack, 2xShard Volley, 2xRift Bolt, 1xAtarka's Command
In: In: 2xPath to Exile, 2xRending Volley, 2x Molten Rain
This is your call if you want Molten Rain. I'd prefer to just remain proactive and try to not have potentially dead cards in hand, so I'd much rather have the Rains over Revelries.
Abzan:
This is the deck that Burn preys on, so there isn't much you need to add. Just the Molten Rains at this point. You can pretty much take out anything. I usually take out the Lavamancers on the draw since he dies so quickly.
Burn:
On the draw-
Out: 4xEidolon, 1xRift Bolt
In: 3xFirewalker, 2xPath
On the play-
Out: 1xEidolon, 4xCommand
In: 3xFirewalker, 2xPath
[deck]
Creature 14
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Burn 27
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Shard Volley
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
3 Searing Blaze
1 Lightning Helix
1 Skullcrack
Land 19
3 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard 15
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Molten Rain
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
[/deck]
Affinity:
The thing with running Command main means that you're stuck in 3 colors for Game 1, which is very painful. I'd normally recommend cutting a color postboard, which would be White, but your sideboard isn't quite set up for that.
With that said, I'd probably do something like this:
On the draw-
Out: 4xEidolon of the Great Revel, 4x Boros Charm
In: 4x Destructive Revelry, 2xPath to Exile, 2x Deflecting Palm (to make them taste it when they attack with a Cranial Plating + dude)
On the play-
Out: 4xEidolon of the Great Revel, 2xBoros Charm
In: 4x Destructive Revelry, 2xPath to Exile
Twin:
I'm always cautious about siding in Revelry in this match sometimes because you're usually just guaranteed to hit a Spellskite (which isn't always bad). Sometimes Twin takes out the combo out, sometimes not. And other times, you just don't have access to the mana, especially when your land gets tapped down. 2 is about where I stand firm if they're gonna be brought in.
On the draw-
Out: 2xShard Volley (doesn't play nicely against Spellskite and hard counters), 2xRift Bolt (just too slow, especially on the draw and doesn't play well against the turn 2 Spellskite), 1xSkullcrack, 1xAtarka's Command:
In: 2xPath to Exile, 2xRending Volley, 2xDestructive Revelry
On the play-
Out: 1xSkullcrack, 2xShard Volley, 2xRift Bolt, 1xAtarka's Command
In: In: 2xPath to Exile, 2xRending Volley, 2x Molten Rain
This is your call if you want Molten Rain. I'd prefer to just remain proactive and try to not have potentially dead cards in hand, so I'd much rather have the Rains over Revelries.
Abzan:
This is the deck that Burn preys on, so there isn't much you need to add. Just the Molten Rains at this point. You can pretty much take out anything. I usually take out the Lavamancers on the draw since he dies so quickly.
Burn:
On the draw-
Out: 4xEidolon, 1xRift Bolt
In: 3xFirewalker, 2xPath
On the play-
Out: 1xEidolon, 4xCommand
In: 3xFirewalker, 2xPath
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.
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Also, take most of this with a grain of salt. I hate rigid sideboard plans. Be like water, y'know? Fluid, and able to go with the flow when needed.
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.
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Playing this tonight:
[deck]
Creature 15
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells 25
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
1 Shard Volley
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
Land 20
1 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wodoed Foothills
3 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
Sideboard 15
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Skullcrack
2 Molten Rain
1 Deflecting Palm
[/deck]
I've beaten Junk and some R/G Wildfire deck in the 2-Mans. Also lost to Merfolk earlier in the day before changing the board around.
More games to come.
[deck]
Creature 15
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells 25
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
1 Shard Volley
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
Land 20
1 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wodoed Foothills
3 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
Sideboard 15
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Skullcrack
2 Molten Rain
1 Deflecting Palm
[/deck]
I've beaten Junk and some R/G Wildfire deck in the 2-Mans. Also lost to Merfolk earlier in the day before changing the board around.
More games to come.
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.
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I wouldn't go below 6 looking for a Firewalker and, even then, I only slightly raise the required power of my opening seven to keep it. It isn't like Leyline against Manaless Dredge, they can beat it, even if it is difficult.
I certainly bring in a few Revelries, but I don't think I bring in the full set. Path and Deflecting Palm (and maybe Molten Rain if you have it) are also viable options to blunt their attacks. Finding enough cards to cut is the hard part.
I certainly bring in a few Revelries, but I don't think I bring in the full set. Path and Deflecting Palm (and maybe Molten Rain if you have it) are also viable options to blunt their attacks. Finding enough cards to cut is the hard part.
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i just dont run it anymore, most decks are running it vs us so i figured i would just plowthrough it and bring in answers to it, ie spellbomb that also have usefullness against other decks like affinity.
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Solid approach - Firewalker is rather narrow, I wouldn't recommend running them unless you KNOW the meta is heavy on burn (....like MODO 8-Man (at least when I was still active)).i just dont run it anymore, most decks are running it vs us so i figured i would just plowthrough it and bring in answers to it, ie spellbomb that also have usefullness against other decks like affinity.
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Burn is the second-most represented deck online according to mtggoldfish.Solid approach - Firewalker is rather narrow, I wouldn't recommend running them unless you KNOW the meta is heavy on burn (....like MODO 8-Man (at least when I was still active)).i just dont run it anymore, most decks are running it vs us so i figured i would just plowthrough it and bring in answers to it, ie spellbomb that also have usefullness against other decks like affinity.
I ran 4 Dragon's Claw in my Grixis Delver sideboard in Friday's Modern daily. Yeah, it's that popular.
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Well I just 3-1 playing the same DE as Xilez, I lost my final match against Junk running Leylines (it was close M1 (which I lost after I hit my 7th land, I only needed 1 burn to end it but ) M2 and M3 were one sided matches).
Anyhow, the cards I'm really thinking about are Shard Volley, Grim Lavamancer, Lightning Helix, Searing Blaze and Skull Crack - trying to work out the right numbers is really tough.
- - - - - - - - - -
Here is the list I'm currently running:
[deck=MDU's Naya Burn v1]Lands 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
Creatures 14
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
Direct Burn 12
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
Flexible Burn 14
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
Sideboard 15
1 Skullcrack
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Destructive Revelry[/deck]
EDIT: Do you guys support the "Bolt the Bird Rule"? I didn't in the past but I think I will follow it for now on vs Junk at least...
Anyhow, the cards I'm really thinking about are Shard Volley, Grim Lavamancer, Lightning Helix, Searing Blaze and Skull Crack - trying to work out the right numbers is really tough.
- - - - - - - - - -
Here is the list I'm currently running:
[deck=MDU's Naya Burn v1]Lands 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
Creatures 14
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
Direct Burn 12
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
Flexible Burn 14
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
Sideboard 15
1 Skullcrack
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Kor Firewalker
4 Destructive Revelry[/deck]
EDIT: Do you guys support the "Bolt the Bird Rule"? I didn't in the past but I think I will follow it for now on vs Junk at least...
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MODO meta is mainly Grixis, Twins, Junk, Robots and Burn + a little of everything else.I went 0-2. Lost a close one to abzan splashing blue for ojutais command, and then in round 2 i was drunk and not paying attention. Trying not to fall into the trap of building my deck for modo, but instead for the gp.
Won't the GP be pretty much the same?
That is just variance, I don't think you'll be getting huge changes between 20 or 19 lands.I have also been losing games keeping 1 landers, granted I am on 19, maybe I should go to 20.
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Atarka's Command is a really powerful card, so much so that I'm really thinking about revisiting Vexing Devil.... (seriously he either tanks up a removal or deals 4 damage).
- - - - - - -
How important is Eidolon of the Great Revel in the current format? I find that he ends up being a minor blockers lots of the time now with all the annoying delve creatures popping up the format.
- - - - - - -
I have quite a number of video recorded now (filled with some really terrible plays, though I'm relearning) here is my current list
[deck=MDU's Naya Burn]Lands 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
Creatures 10
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
Flexible Burn 16
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
Direct Burn 14
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
2 Skullcrack
Sideboard 15
2 Skullcrack
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry[/deck]
I really dislike the Grim Lavamancer and I wouldn't mind finding a way to force 4x Eidolon of the Great Revel back into the list but I'm not sure how (+ I don't think he helps much in our tough MUs anyways).
So far I think the format is really lifehappy so I wouldn't play any list with less then 8 anti-lifegain cards somewhere in the 75, I think Lightning Helix really needs some more considerations since games usually slow down on M2-3 (post board) the extra 3 life and buy turns.
EDIT:
Thunderous Wrath .... lols, YOLO?
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How important is Eidolon of the Great Revel in the current format? I find that he ends up being a minor blockers lots of the time now with all the annoying delve creatures popping up the format.
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I have quite a number of video recorded now (filled with some really terrible plays, though I'm relearning) here is my current list
[deck=MDU's Naya Burn]Lands 20
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
Creatures 10
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
Flexible Burn 16
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
Direct Burn 14
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
2 Skullcrack
Sideboard 15
2 Skullcrack
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry[/deck]
I really dislike the Grim Lavamancer and I wouldn't mind finding a way to force 4x Eidolon of the Great Revel back into the list but I'm not sure how (+ I don't think he helps much in our tough MUs anyways).
So far I think the format is really lifehappy so I wouldn't play any list with less then 8 anti-lifegain cards somewhere in the 75, I think Lightning Helix really needs some more considerations since games usually slow down on M2-3 (post board) the extra 3 life and buy turns.
EDIT:
Thunderous Wrath .... lols, YOLO?
Last edited by magicdownunder on Sun May 03, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Valdarith
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Wizards prints the best red two drop of all time -- a Legacy and Modern all-star -- and you choose NOT to play him?
Anything less than four is flat out wrong. The card is AMAZING.
Anything less than four is flat out wrong. The card is AMAZING.
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith
- Valdarith
- Tire Aficionado
- Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO) - Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
- Location: Southeast AL
Also you're giving up significant percentage in the mirror to play Atarka's Command in the 60. If I were on that plan I'd just play small Zoo. And I don't think 4 Shard Volley can realistically be supported.
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith
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