The 10 mana rock

[Stardust]

Would you play this card?

Mana Boulder
Artifact
[mana]T[/mana]: Add ten mana of any color to your mana pool.

I think I probably would in many decks. Doesn't slow you down at all the turn you play it (assuming you're not looking to keep a couple mana open, of course), but then you run the risk of not being able to play the card at any point in maybe 1/3 of your games (since reaching 10 mana can be tough, even in EDH).

If you answered yes to the question above, how much do you love Omniscience? I haven't seen that card basically ever in an EDH game until I recently put it into my new Melek list. Is my playgroup bad for not playing this card?

[redthirst]

I would not. I expect more from 10 mana than just not losing any mana the turn I play it or having 2x what I'd consider an excessive amount of mana anyway the next turn.

If I'm tapping 10 mana in EDH, you'd better be holding onto your butts.

[Stardust]

20 mana is way more mana than 10 mana. Depends on the deck, but most ramp at least a little, aiming to hit at least 7 or 8. If you can't make full use of 10 mana each turn, you should probably be playing more card draw or mana sinks, because that'll be a lot of lost tempo in a lot of games.

[redthirst]

20 mana is way more mana than 10 mana.

No argument there, but there's a point of diminishing returns when you're talking double mana and I think going from 10-20 mana fits the "diminished" part comfortably.

Going from 1 mana to 2 - that's always a big deal.
Going from 2 mana to 4 - that's almost always a big deal.
Going from 4 mana to 8 - that can be useful.
Going from 8 mana to 16 - that's usually not that useful.

Yeah, if you can continuously fill up your hand every turn and fully utilize 20 mana then that's great, but I'm not imagining a whole lot of games where you're doing that same thing but with only 10 mana and still not beating the pants off everyone.

Which makes it not worth the card slot IMO.

[Stardust]

Sylvan Primordial was banned for jumping you from 7 to 10. Primeval Titan jumped you from 6 to ??. I'd argue that the point of diminishing returns for most EDH decks is at least 10 mana.

[redthirst]

Primordial was banned because it was a 3-for-1 + a threat + 3 lands, not because it ramped you from 7-10 mana.

Titan was banned because it ramped you + threat + got you whatever two busted-ass lands you wanted, not because it just ramped you from 6-8 mana.

If ramping a few lands into play was enough to get a card banned, [card]Ranger's Path[/card] would have been gone long before either of those two.

[redthirst]

To get away from the hypothetical card debate and touch on an actual topic:

As far as I know, Omniscience doesn't see a lot of play precisely for the reasons I outlined: by the time you have 10 mana, you want to cast spells that will win you the game and you can already cast like 99-100% of the other spells in your deck anyway.

That being said, I could see testing it in something like Damia, Sage of Stone, though I'd probably end up cutting it there too.

[Stardust]

Yeah, yeah, true enough on Primordial. Primeval Titan's ban was nothing but ramp though.

So obviously Omniscience is going to be a curve-topper, no doubt. You're right that you can cast any of your spells at that point. But you can't cast all of them. In a deck with card draw (ie: any blue deck) I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that Omniscience will save you 10-20 mana each turn, including the turn you play it. Most times I cast it in Melek, I'll likely be winning the game that turn (and using Omniscience for probably 50-some mana in the process). I say likely because I've only played the deck once since building it, but that was my thought for the inclusion.

[Alex]

This is exactly the type of card a deck like Azami would want. Basically any deck with Filigree Sages and an X spell to go off with would play it. Skyscribing immediately comes to mind, as does [card]Blue Sun's Zenith[/card], Prosperity, etc...

[Alex]

Also it completely breaks Mind Over Matter. Even if that card is already really broken anyway.

[Azrael]

There are a few decks where I would consider the 10 mana rock - especially if I could cheap untaps with Tezzeret the Seeker, or Derevi, stuff like that. Some decks just have so much card draw potential packed in that mana is really the only limiting factor to what they can do. And ten mana *shouldn't* be that hard to ramp up to.

I haven't bought Omniscience yet, but it's definitely on my acquisition list. Completely aside from broken combo potential like Maelstrom Wander + sac outlet (such as Food Chain), The ability to cast an extra turn effect coupled with a win con like Storm Herd in the same turn, with counterspell backup for any removal options they might have, constantly replay your general, or just draw most/all your deck and then win, seems like it ought to be pretty disgusting.

[Pendulum]

I probably wouldn't play it. There are enough people playing Acquire and Beacon of Unrest in EDH specifically to punish big-ass artifacts that it seems like it would too often become a gratuitous liability.

[rcwraspy]

Maybe in a funky casual mill strategy with braingeyser and the like. Would want voltaic key

[Stardust]

... constantly replay your general...

Sadly, Omniscience only works for cards in your hand.