[Primer] PyroRed

[dpaine88]

I actually like a stalled board state, since we usually have more ways of gaining the upper hand than they do with Chandra, Chandra's Phoenix and YP$.

Seismic Stomp would be a great finisher against stall-prone matchups. Won a few games at States last weekend off of it against GW and Mono Green.

[LP, of the Fires]

How'd you do at states D and what'd you play? You probably already mentioned it but I must have missed it or forgotten.

[dpaine88]

Nah I didn't even bother posting about it...

I went to the original States in Providence RI.....a whopping.... SIX people....six fucking people lol.
5 other green decks and me running Devotion Red.

I lost game 3 vs GW in a very very long game where I somehow did not draw a single Fanatic. I got 2nd place and he gave out 3 boxes worth to 6 people haha.

The TCG States is this weekend. i'll probably be running Pyro Red if I can get in enough testing. Not sure if its the deck I want to sleeve up without a bunch of testing.

[InflatablePie]

@ Jurrik; running a hammer in place of the third Chandra is fine.

Quick questions since I'm too lazy to skim the thread and judge for myself: if you were to run a Hammer over a Chandra, should you only run one in the SB or still two? And what should the one-of in the board be if you choose the former? Would a Flames be a good one-of for the mirror (brought in over Hammer I guess) if you were running A-Fires main?

[Jurrk]

I, personally, am only running 2 skullcracks in my SB (mainly because that's all I can locate) so when I take +1 Hammer to the mainboard in place of 1 Chandra it left me with 2 SB choices to make. I chose to put 2 Flames in there because honestly it seems like all i'm facing nowadays is some version of U/W Master of Waves and all of those fast token generators are pissing me off. Not sure if this is the right choice for SB. Educate me!

[Khaospawn]

All I know is that I can't wait to play Annihilating Fire on a Voice and then have the G/W player ask me what it does.

On second thought, I'm sure I'll be sick of hearing that by the end of the day.

[Jurrk]

I've been playtesting Devotion Red against my coworker all week in preparation for TCGplayer States this weekend. This is his decklist:

[deck]
Creatures (13)
2 Frostburn Weird
4 Master of Waves
4 Omenspeaker
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
Planeswalkers (4)

2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Jace, Architect of Thought

Lands (25)
8 Island
5 Plains
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Mutavault

Spells (18)
3 Detention Sphere
4 Azorius Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Spear Of Heliod
2 Bident of Thassa
4 Supreme Verdict

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Aetherling
3 Blind Obedience
3 Celestial Flare
2 Negate
2 Swan Song
2 Glare of Heresy
[/deck]

I've officially put together the PyroRed build -1 Chandra +1 MB Hammer and i'm going to play test it tonight against that deck. I still need to read your latest article on PyroRed Zem and I will make sure to get around
to it at some point tonight, but any main point suggestions to take with me before play testing? The only problems I can see up front are his 4 Supreme Verdicts (which hopefully the 3 Mutavaults and the 1 MB hammer should help there) and his annoying Detention Spheres which he somehow manages to pull all 3 almost EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. I'm not very seasoned (i've sat out for 10 years btw). Any Detention Sphere advice? My guess is ignore it and keep going as per usual. Correct?

[zemanjaski]

It's a 3 mana sorcery speed piece of shit.

[zemanjaski]

Worry about the problems you can solve.

[Jurrk]

duly noted!

[Jack]

I just watched Z's video on RDW basics. On the graph on power/time, it seems like, as this deck is able to play in multiple ways, different games can be represented using different lines. Sometimes, we'll look just like the RDW graph but with a lower starting point and a lesser drop in power over time, whereas other times (particularly in post board games against aggro), the line will be similar to the one for RDW, but reflected over some horizontal line about halfway in between the starting point for midrange and the one for RDW. Just something to think about.

[F.I.A]

If there's any advice I can give for Detention Sphere, it's to blast the creature it's targeting. At least you won't lose multiple copies of the creature that way.

[zemanjaski]

You should just not play multiple copies ~ they all run 3 or 4 copies of detention sphere. Better to avoid the 2-for-1 entirely if you think they may have one in hand.

[Christen]

Do not play more than 2 copies of your creatures if you can help it.

[F.I.A]

Indeed, but sometimes you're not going to have a choice with the hand dealt to you.

And blasting your own creatures at times to deny an opponent's action is all good since he didn't expect that. Like killing off that creature with a [card]Warleader's Helix[/card] aimed at it. He just needs that lifegain, but denying it will throw him off-guard.

[zemanjaski]

The Warleader's Helix is a much more compelling example, but yes, sure. Like everything, it's a judgment call.

[zemanjaski]

The deck really wants to be:
-1 Mutavault, -1 Chandra, -2 Annihilating Fire; +4 awesome new red instant they print next set

[Zooligan]

Next set is even further away than normal. Stuck with what we've got for a while.

[F.I.A]

I won't hold too high of a hope for another good instant, zem. It's damn good already right now. If that happened, red deck would just explode with all the speed.

[Narcasus]

i had 4 mountain, satyr, lightning blast, and chandra against unknown. I felt this was keepable. What i didnt know was that it was boros agro and i would draw land for my first 6 turns and die. Game two, 3 land, 2 reckoner, magma jet and cackler. feels more than keepable. i draw 4 straight lands, putting 2 on the bottom as well and die shortly after drawing ash zealot. This was round two of a daily. Those games were so frustrating.

[F.I.A]

Well, bad draw like those happen. Like that last time Chandra 0'd for three turns and revealed Mountain.

Both hands are definitely keepable. Though I'd side out the cackler for mortars.

[Narcasus]

i definitely did now that you mention it. I have no idea what that cackler was in game 2, too busy raging over the land draws. Went up against another red devotion in round 3, played control both games, chandra carried it to the promise land both games, bonus points to P$ making a shock a 2 for 1 though.. Hopefully i can go 3-1.

[zemanjaski]

Good luck!

[Helios]

So is the current deck +2 Mountain, +2 Annihilating Fire, -1 Mutavault, -2 Flames, -1 Hammer ?

More testing notes against monogreen:

-Counting to 20 better than they can is important. Granted, I know every card in the list so I knew 100% I could win some of the races that happened, but knowing when you play turn 3 Phoenix over Pyromancer w/Shock in-hand seems necessary.

-Witchstalker is a really, really annoying card. I won every game it didn't hit the fie

-Do you always kill Gyre Sage on sight? I used to, but I let it live a few games tonight just to see how it would play out. I was able to win all but one game Gyre lived by going to the dome and rebuying Phoenix/making Elementals instead.

-Stalled board states where you don't draw Phoenix are an issue, because they can usually hit Nylea faster than you can kill them.

-Faltering with Chandra is delightful.

All pre-board games because we are pretty
lazy, but planning on doing post-board stuff tomorrow. The notes above aren't exactly extensive, so I can answer specific questions as well.

(Why am I testing against green so much? Because that's what my testing partner plays)

[Narcasus]

Got there, 3-1 on the daily. Last round was up against u/w control. Game one, he kept a 1 lander with 2 cantrips. He didn't hit his second land till turn 3 and died a painful death. Game 2 he had all the answers from multi detention sphere, last breaths on pheonix, ox to stop early agro and double wrath. This followed by jace and elspeth and drawing 4 straight land, i saw him rev up after getting him to 3. Game 3 was a fun game, cackler into pheonix, he goes to last breath pheonix, but i magma jet it, setting up a turn 5 lightning blast into pheonix, forcing the wrath for him. I then get to freely play my hammer at 6 mana, and swing with a token. He has no answer to the hammer and the game is won. Bonus points to F.I.A. mentioning hitting your own guy so it wont get exiled earlier today, otherwise i may have forgotten.

[Narcasus]

So is the current deck +2 Mountain, +2 Annihilating Fire, -1 Mutavault, -2 Flames, -1 Hammer ?

That is what i am currently playing, Annihilating Fire has been great in the mirror, but i had some issues flooding out. I may try -1 fire +1 hammer at 23 lands for another mana sink when it does happen.

[Helios]

Nice job redbro!

[zemanjaski]

WP sir. Might I trouble you for matchup notes / thoughts for the thread? The others appreciate them a lot.

@ Helios. Definitive list for States:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

Instants
2 Annihilating Fire
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
20 or 21 Mountain
2 or 3 Mutavault

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 to 4 Skullscrack
1 to 3 Traitorous Instinct
[/deck]

Some room for personal preference.

[warwizard87]

WP sir. Might I trouble you for matchup notes / thoughts for the thread? The others appreciate them a lot.

@ Helios. Definitive list for States:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

Instants
2 Annihilating Fire
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
20 or 21 Mountain
2 or 3 Mutavault

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 to 4 Skullscrack
1 to 3 Traitorous Instinct
[/deck]

Some room for personal preference.

I like 20 mountain 3 vault.
I feel safer vs control. I have access to a 4th Chandra thinking about her in the board not sure if worth it though.

[Helios]

Thanks Z. If you feel like testing like we did last year, hit me up. Know you're real busy though.

2nd the request, Narcasus, notes are always good.

[zemanjaski]

I don't think you need it personally. With two hammer and some skullcrack I think the control matchup is already very good.

For a paper event id look at 2 skullcrack plus 3 traitorous instinct; I think you'll see a lot more midrangey decks and traitorous instinct IS KIND OF A BIG DEAL IF YA DIDN'T GET THE MEMO.

I think 4 Reckdaddy plus 4 Mortars plus 2 Hammer is non-negotiable though.

I'm just not going to be able to this week Helios I'm real sorry mate.

[Helios]

S'all good redbro. You're pretty much single-handedly responsible for me even being half-way decent at Magic, so I think I can cut you some slack.

Just this once though.

EDIT: Hammer is a thing. I can't count.

[Narcasus]

Went 3-1 in a daily on MTGO

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

Instants
2 Annihilating Fire
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
21 Mountain
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullscrack
2 Traitorous Instinct
[/deck]

Round one was a mirror match Pyro vs Pyro

game 1 was more about outplaying him, he was on the play, does nothing turn one, i play a land and pass, he plays YP and i shock EoT and play Ashe Zealot and swing for two. Game spirals out of control for him as he seems like he hasn't played the deck much and Chandra seals the deal.

Game 2 was more interesting, he is mana screwed on
one mana for a long time, i flood out, have almost no spells. I am able to dig with magma jet to stablilize just as he hits his mana and i see why he kept a one lander with quadruple 2 drops hit the board off of BTE. Pheonix and Chandra do work and the game ends as my cards outclass his and he cant finish me off.

2-0

Round 2 vs Boros Agro

These were some of the most depressing games I've played in a long time, i don't feel like i really got to play magic. copying from my earlier post

i had 4 mountain, satyr, Lightning Blast, and chandra against unknown. I felt this was keepable. What i didnt know was that it was boros agro and i would draw land for my first 6 turns and die. Game two, 3 land, 2 reckoner, Magma Jet and cackler. feels more than keepable. i draw 4 straight lands, putting 2 on the bottom as well and die shortly after drawing Ash Zealot. This was round two of a daily. Those games were so frustrating.

Round 3 vs Red Devotion.

Both games were a fight for me to burn enough guys
and stabilize before he killed me. Both games i won with 5 health and recurring pheonix and Chandras carried the day. Annihilating Fire was huge game 2, taking out his early and leaving mine free to beat on and create CA.

2-0

Round 4 vs U/W Control

I wont retype it out as its a few posts above this one.

2-1

Final score 3-1 and 6 packs richer on the night.

I honestly felt in control of every game besides round 2 where i drew enough lands to last me a lifetime. I felt it was on me to play correctly to give myself a chance to win. Scry was alot of help all night, getting through mana pockets, or digging for that third land. I'm concidering a hammer mainboard but it might be an overreaction due to drawing a lot more lands than on avg on the night.

[zemanjaski]

S'all good redbro. You're pretty much single-handedly responsible for me even being half-way decent at Magic, so I think I can cut you some slack.

Just this once though.

Also, is that 13 cards v. midrange/aggro, 2 cards against control? Seems odd.

2 Hammer plus 2 Skullcrack for Control (-2 Annihilating Fire, -2 Shock, unless they're running x/3s then -4 Shock)
4 Reckoner plus 4 Mortars for aggro
Against midrange it's entirely down to what they're playing; I don't want Reckoner vs. decks with black removal for example.

[zemanjaski]

I like that "Chandra, Best Card in Standard" is catching on.

[Helios]

I mean...'tis the truth.

Yea I forgot that hammer was a thing. Derp.

[F.I.A]

Congrats on the win, Narcasus.

While it's theoretically bad to burn your creatures, sometimes you just have to do something different to surprise your opponent (Of course, in this case, a recurrable creature is worth more than a burn against control). After all, we have to show them which is the thinking man's color.

If there was an instant I'd like to have in the future, zem, it'd be a 3 mana Lightning Bolt that scry for 1. I'd gladly mainboard some of that.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm on the 2 traitourous instinct, 1 foil seismic stomp plan. I may also sideline 1 fire for 1 hammer depending on how many people catch onto voice being really good in this meta vs. playing against control all day.

[warwizard87]

my main is pretty fixed so is most of my side, but tbh I kind of want a 3rd Annihliating fire in there, so im thinking like

[deck]
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Boros Reckoners
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Skullcrack
2 Tratourous instinct
1 Annihilating fire
[/deck]

[Khaospawn]

I'm on the 2 traitourous instinct, 1 foil seismic stomp plan. I may also sideline 1 fire for 1 hammer depending on how many people catch onto voice being really good in this meta vs. playing against control all day.

If it's got to be foil, I'm glad I own 4 already.