[Primer] Devotion Red

[Purp]

Been playing Maze's End all season and have had pretty good results. Unfortunatley my store is becoming over run with Esper and BWR so I have to decided to pick up mono red once again.

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Legion Loyalist

4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
1 Hammer of Purphoros

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault


Sideboard
3 Traitorous Instinct
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Burning Earth
2 Skullcrack
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault[/deck]

Thoughts?

[hikari]

Hello everyone. Newbie player here. I've been browsing DTR forums since i started playing magic just a few months ago. I find that the information and the ideas of the community here is always my most reliable source of advice and knowledge when it comes to playing RDW, as i started as a redmage. I'm using a red devotion deck at the moment. Saw my friend's mono blue MoW deck yesterday, and it made me think about the 2 cards she was running and the synergy of it with mutavault. Those 2 cards were: MoW and galerider sliver. Turning her mutavault when activated as a creature, into a 3/3 with flying. So i was thinking, maybe something similar for the mutavaults in my red devotion deck? I've thought of using striking sliver, and remembered one of wrathberry's post here about using rageblood shaman for buffing fanatic, and giving trample at the same time for pushing more damage through, in case needed. Turning my mutavault
into a 3/3 FS with trample as an attacker/blocker. So my question is, is this a bad idea? I don't have firedrinkers and reckoners yet, so i was planning on using striking sliver and rageblood shaman for the meantime. Btw, will damage still trample when it's blocking, or just on attacking? Sorry for the noob question. Any thoughts, suggestions, comments? All are gladly appreciated, especially from Z, JS, Khaos, LP and all the others who i forgot to mention. Sorry for the long post, TIA.

[dpaine88]

This deck looks a hellava lot like Adrian Sullivans top4 list that splashed a little bit of white.

You guys see that?

Oh and @JS, If I don't post about a tournament, assume I sucked and am too embarassed to post. If I do good, I'll be bragging everywhere I can =D

[DarthStabber]

@hikari: I can't speak for anyone else here (in fact I am often at odds, they're pushing the deck bigger, i'm pushing it faster), but my honest opinion is that you probably don't want to pour too much effort into "maximizing" your mutavaults. They are only there to increase threat density, by focusing on it you are hurting your consistency and speed. Take that with a grain of salt though, I'm running "fast red aggro" that happens to support fanatic of mogis, and other people are committing to the devotion theme more with things like nykthos to power out (m)ember swallowers and storm breath dragons. It's up to you if you want to go that direction, but I warn you of diminishing returns if you go too far down that rabbit hole.

To repeat something I said in a different thread: Don't be too proud of the techy terror you have constructed. The ability to destroy specific matchups is
insignificant next to the power of consistency.

[NerdBoyWonder]

One more for the night

[Yarpus]

This one is awesome.

[dpaine88]

That is friggen awesome!!!!!

[Khaospawn]

MOGIS!!!

[DarthStabber]

Want as sleeves, a playmat, and tattoo

[dpaine88]

What promted the Shock to Mortors switch? Weird from mono blue?

[Tyrael]

A lot of lists are running creatures with toughness 4 so it seems like a logical switch.

[Khaospawn]

Mortars kicks Blood Baron right in the pussy.


C'mon, you know Baron is really Xerxes from South Park....SCISSOR ME TIMBERS!

[Purp]

Went 3-1 in swiss then lost in top 8 last night. This was my deck.

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
1 Wrecking Ogre

4 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Hammer of Purphoros

21 Mountain
2 Mutavault


Sideboard
3 Traitorous Instinct
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Burning Earth
2 Skullcrack
2 Legion Loyalist
2 Mizzium Mortars[/deck]

R1: Lost Amercan Control.
R2: Beat Bant Control
R3: Beat UW
R4: Beat BUG Midrange

top8: Lost Mono Blue 2-1
---------------------------

Only got to live the dream of bloodrushing my phoenix one time. Moving forward I am thinking of splashing white for boros charm. I also think Magma Jet is just better than shock, the scry is very valuable as I found myself flooding out on lands more than I was land screwed.

Thinking something like this:

[deck]
4 Ash Zealot
3 Boros
Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler

4 Lightning Strike
3 Boros Charm
2 Magma Jet (Possibly Mizzium Mortars?)

1 Hammer

1 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triupmh
13 Mountain
[/deck]

Thoughts from my redbros?

[Khaospawn]

Purp, you really can't go wrong with Adrian Sullivan's Burn package. Which is what you're running, so I'd say that's good.

Although having to possibly sac your Temples and Foundries to your Hammer doesn't seem productive. I doubt it'll ever come to that, but just an observation.

[hamfactorial]

Can't stop laughing about Blood Baron being Xerxes.

[Khaospawn]

Can't stop laughing about Blood Baron being Xerxes.

Orzhov is led by a bunch of fucking Persians!

[hamfactorial]

[Purp]

Khaos what are your results from testing with 22 and 23 lands? I often found myself drawing lands last night when a burn spell or creature would of done the job.

[Khaospawn]

Khaos what are your results from testing with 22 and 23 lands? I often found myself drawing lands last night when a burn spell or creature would of done the job.

Funny you mention that. I'm actually on the R/w Dragon plan currently. Which means I've jumped from 23 to 25 land.

The difference between the 2 decks is that the DevoRed decks really doesn't want more than 6 mana, ever. In Game 1, I don't even think you'd want more than 5. It's in Game 2 where you'd hope to Overload a Mortars. Anyways, that's where the value of maindecking (theoretically) the Hammer of Purphoros. It mitigates flood problems by turning your excess lands into threats. Seems simple right? It doesn't always work that way sometimes. However, the deck runs 4
Magma Jets. In fact, the overall burn package is bigger than the R/w Dragon deck. What DevoRed benefits from greatly is Magma Jet and the Scry ability. Not only does it let you search out for a Fanatic to end the game, it can also shove late game Cacklers and excess land to the bottom.

With all that said, R/w Dragons wants seven every game. It wants to Overload a Mortars and then go Monstrous with Stormbreath. It gets the Scry ability naturally from it's lands, so it actually doesn't need Magma Jet - it's too "low impact." The deck could flood like a bitch,but as long as it draws into a Chandra, Mortars, or Dragon, it's going to close the gap fairly quickly based on the power-level of the cards.

Granted, every deck will flood out some point. It's the nature of Magic. I've flooded out with 17 land Kuldotha Red decks at the worst time. It just happens. But, moving
forward, you as a player can make certain preparations or concessions to safeguard against flood problems. Suggestions are: add more Mutavaults, add a second Hammer, cut a land, up your Chandra count. A deck is like a piece of clay that has to be molded and mashed several times before you begin to see the shape that you want.

My last piece of advice is for everybody: Guys, it's fine to see a decklist you like and copy it card for card, but just know that what worked one week may not work another week. Metagames shift and players wise up to certain tricks. If the shell is appealing, then use that as a springboard, but go with your gut when make changes. Do you feel like the deck could use more burn? Less land? More creatures? Go with what you know. What are you comfortable with? More importantly, do what you know works. Follow your convictions.

[Helios]

My last piece of advice is for everybody: Guys, it's fine to see a decklist you like and copy it card for card, but just know that what worked one week may not work another week. Metagames shift and players wise up to certain tricks. If the shell is appealing, then use that as a springboard, but go with your gut when make changes. Do you feel like the deck could use more burn? Less land? More creatures? Go with what you know. What are you comfortable with? More importantly, do what you know works. Follow your convictions.

All of my this. Excellent advice.

[DarthStabber]

My last piece of advice is for everybody: Guys, it's fine to see a decklist you like and copy it card for card, but just know that what worked one week may not work another week. Metagames shift and players wise up to certain tricks. If the shell is appealing, then use that as a springboard, but go with your gut when make changes. Do you feel like the deck could use more burn? Less land? More creatures? Go with what you know. What are you comfortable with? More importantly, do what you know works. Follow your convictions.

Truely sage wisdom, ya'll can keep going bigger, i'm unmoved from "speed kills".

[shpedoinkle]

Okay, I decided to make a list that can really side into a slower deck if needed, just need some tweaking of the MB/SB

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Ash Zealot

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

18 Mountain
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

1 Burning Earth
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Frostburn Weird
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Ember Swallower
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx[/deck]

Have ben playing a pretty generic devotion red build, have been doing well, just thought I would try something new just because I can.

So what the plan is, is to side in the Shrines, the Ember Swallowers, the Hammers, the Frostburns and the Mortars vs aggro.

I got the idea from how much fun I had playing Dos Rakis last standard with the SB into midrange and really it is all about having fun right?

[RaidaTheBlade]

I need some help on my sideboard plan... What the heck do I do against mono-u devo?
I've got mizziums and electrickeries in mthe sideboard, but I'm not sure what to take out... Do I trade out for some f my other burn, do I drop my 1-drops and go slower? Wat do? ;-;

[LaZerBurn]

A deck is like a piece of clay that has to be molded and mashed several times before you begin to see the shape that you want.

My last piece of advice is for everybody: Guys, it's fine to see a decklist you like and copy it card for card, but just know that what worked one week may not work another week. Metagames shift and players wise up to certain tricks. If the shell is appealing, then use that as a springboard, but go with your gut when make changes. Do you feel like the deck could use more burn? Less land? More creatures? Go with what you know. What are you comfortable with? More importantly, do what you know works. Follow your convictions.

These are some of the wisest words I've read anywhere, ever, about anything Thank you most kindly

[Khaospawn]

I need some help on my sideboard plan... What the heck do I do against mono-u devo?
I've got mizziums and electrickeries in mthe sideboard, but I'm not sure what to take out... Do I trade out for some f my other burn, do I drop my 1-drops and go slower? Wat do? ;-;

I believe in this matchup that we are the control player. They're deck is mostly just...dudes, Thassa, Bident, and a few bounce spells. I think it'd be fair to at least take out the Satyrs, if not Cackler also, for the extra Burn package - Mortars, Elecktrickery, and Flames of the Firebrand. Just burn away their guys so their devotion is minimal and try to build the wall of defense. Finish with a Mogis.

At least, it works this way in my head. I've never actually
played against Mono U Devotion with the Mogis deck.

[Tyrael]

Played Larkin's list last night, ended up with a disappointing 1-3 once again. G/R ramp decks are really problematic, I faced two guys playing it and they both had two games where they either put a Polukranos or an Arbor Colossus down on turn 2 (!). I had absolutely no chance, Nykthos is just over the top in those decks...

[DarthStabber]

Yeah gr ramp makes me miss stone rain. I hate playing it and playing against it but in some matchups it's an important roleplayer.

[Tyrael]

Yeah gr ramp makes me miss stone rain. I hate playing it and playing against it but in some matchups it's an important roleplayer.

Well we have Peak Eruption now but it doesn't hit Nykthos, unfortunately...

[DarthStabber]

Yeah gr ramp makes me miss stone rain. I hate playing it and playing against it but in some matchups it's an important roleplayer.

Well we have Peak Eruption now but it doesn't hit Nykthos, unfortunately...

Yeah, that's the problem. If they made (2)(r), (1)(r)(r), or even (r)(r)(r) sorcery - destroy target non-basic land I would be behind it (though grudgingly). I know they don't like LD to be good, but if you are going to make great lands then you need to make solutions. Demolish is not a good solution, and peak eruption does so very little. Punishing non-
basics is a think I miss. Maybe just get them to reprint price of progress, which would make RDW the deck to beat the entire time it's in standard, but modern is spoiled, they don't have to deal with the non-basic hate you get in legacy, and it would amuse me so.

[RaidaTheBlade]

I just went 3-1 and got second place twice at two gameday events in a row. I'm tired atm, but in the morning, I'll post up a write up with whaever I remember e.e

[zemanjaski]

Yeah gr ramp makes me miss stone rain. I hate playing it and playing against it but in some matchups it's an important roleplayer.

Well we have Peak Eruption now but it doesn't hit Nykthos, unfortunately...

Yeah, that's the problem. If they made (2)(r), (1)(r)(r), or even (r)(r)(r) sorcery - destroy target non-basic land I would be behind it (though grudgingly). I know they don't like LD to be good,
but if you are going to make great lands then you need to make solutions. Demolish is not a good solution, and peak eruption does so very little. Punishing non-basics is a think I miss. Maybe just get them to reprint price of progress, which would make RDW the deck to beat the entire time it's in standard, but modern is spoiled, they don't have to deal with the non-basic hate you get in legacy, and it would amuse me so.

I am really interested in whether or not Frenzied Tilling or Encroaching Wastes start to see more play. It isn't like they're ever THAT bad.

[DarthStabber]

frenzied tilling I could see, but encroaching wastes "costs 5" and sacs the land. Nykthos and maze's end have to get pretty far out of hand for me to want encroaching wastes.

[LP, of the Fires]

Nykthos is broken to the point where I'd consider myself in the market for Wastes if it didn't interfere with my manabase.

Obviously you'd rather just keep them off of devotion, but once they land a garruk or whatever, You really do want to get that Nykthos off the field so they at least can't start chaining them. generating 12+ mana(I've seen the mid 30s today in testing post gameday).

[zemanjaski]

My UB control deck has 4 wastes in it:
- I need a colourless land anyway (mutavault is the alternative, but I have a mill win-con);
- it answers mutavault;
- it answers Nythos and Maze's end; and
- it randomly screws with the mana out of the 3-colour mana decks, stealing games.

The power level is very low though.

[DarthStabber]

My UB control deck has 4 wastes in it:
- I need a colourless land anyway (mutavault is the alternative, but I have a mill win-con);
- it answers mutavault;
- it answers Nythos and Maze's end; and
- it randomly screws with the mana out of the 3-colour mana decks, stealing games.

The power level is very low though.

I suppose in that shell you'd need it, I've been on an aggro kick so I can just race in under it, but yeah with UB control you aren't racing anyone (other than maze's end).

The real question is "why do you 'need' a colorless land?". And it "deals with" mutavault, but so does doomblade and dimir charm.

[LaZerBurn]

What actually happened to LD? I get the impression that people don't/didn't like playing it? Personally I have very happy memories of Sped Red with 4 Stone Rain, 4 Pillage, 4 Avalanche Riders and 2 Ghost Quarter to kick the LD in on T2

Edit - that should have been Ancient Tombs, not Ghost Quarter

[Platypus]

People don't like playing against LD, so Wizards tone it down a notch. Just like counterspells and other things people whine about. Although when it comes to LD I can understand it.

[DarthStabber]

I always feel bad about playing LD, I never run it as a "main plan", but in the sideboard to deal with certain crazy lands (and during first rav it was weirdly satisfying to hit bounce lands). Ghost quarter is a different story because at least they get basic out of it, and symmetrical LD is fine too.

Counters OTOH are something I miss being good. MUC is quite beatable if you are smart about it, but no we have to dumb that down to morons can play easier.

The difference is that reactive denial (counters) is a lot harder to play (and shakier) than proactive denial (LD, counterbalance, stasis), and harder to "get under".

[RaidaTheBlade]

Gameday reports!

List going into the first gameday:

[deck]
Lands
22 Mountain

Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Ember Swallower


Spells
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock

Other
1 Chandra, Best Card in Standard
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard:
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Burning Earth
3 Act of Treason
2 Shock
3 Electrickery
[/deck]

First gameday-
Round 1: B/W Control
2-1
First match went really quick, I curved out my aggro beautifully. Second match I got mana-screwed for a while, giving him enough time to stabilize and get out a ghost-dad to kill me with. Third game went a little long, with me still having a slower start then game one, but I was able to avoid land screw with the hammer and kept up the pressure for a win.

Round 2: U/B Control/Midrange
2-0
Not much to say on
this one. Both hands were beautiful hands, hitting aggro timings perfectly, no chance for him. (Turned out that might have been a good thing, cause he ended up winning the second gameday somehow.)

Round 3: American Control
2-0
First was just quick aggro run, he never drew board wipe, so he died. Second he had a wipe in hand, but never got to use it cause was stuck on 3 mana till it was way too late.

Round 4: Mono-U Devo
0-2
Fuck me. That's it. I was arse-raped. Game 1 was instant death, game 2 I had to mull to 5, and held him off for a bit surprisingly, but still died

I ended up having 2nd cause the American Control from round 3 beat his round-4 opponent, so my tiebreakers were great.



Bought a mutavault and 4 peak eruptions between the two tournies, so my list going into the second was:

[deck]
Lands
21 Mountain
1 Mutavault

Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Ember Swallower


Spells
4
Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Mizzium Mortars

Other
1 Chandra, Best Card in Standard
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Sideboard:
4 Peak Eruption
2 Burning Earth
3 Act of Treason
3 Shock
3 Electrickery
[/deck]


Round 1: Boros Heroics
2-1
First was out-aggro'd heavily, and couldn't keep up. I sided in more burn, and was able to keep him off his creatures (without which his spells were useless) while picking away with my own stuff.

Round 2: Mono-Red Aggro
2-0
Weird Aggro build by a friend of mine. He didn't play really seriously, so I just burn-controlled him out both games.

Round 3: Dos Rakis
1-2
First game played a 1-land hand after mulliganing, and got mana screwed. Won second game because sideboarded in more burn, and went controlly. THird match came down to one turn, but he topdecked a burn spell the turn before he died. I wasn't sure how to feel about it cause it was a friend of mine I taught to play…

Round 4: American Control (same guy as first tournament)
2-0
Game
one went like the first time we played, and I just hit my aggro timings perfectly. He used 2 board wipes, but I played around them and was able to keep putting down threats. Mutavault also chipped away. Second game I had threats down, while sticking him at 3 land by peak erupting his shocklands twice (one turn in between). Put him too far behind, and burned him out for victory.

This tournament went weird, cause going into round 4, there were no 3-0's. I had been paired down, and lost, while the other 2-0's ended up tying. The U/B midrange/control I 2-0'd the first tourney was one of the tied, and beat his 4th roudn opponent, so won there. But I ended up beating the guy who beat me tie-breakers wise, so I went 2nd once again.



After the day, I've thought about a new tentative build. The burn ended up being so dire in so many games, that I kinda wanna slow down a bit and be a bit between devo and Z's pyro. I don't have too much money to throw at the game, so this is just with what I've already
got access to.

[deck]
Creatures:
4x Ash Zealot
4x Frostburn Weird
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Fanatic of Mogis

Burn:
4x Magma Jet
4x Lightning Strike
4x Shock (this is my iffy one. Maybe firebrand instead, or some mix of mizziums and shocks?)

Thighs/Lategame
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Hammer of Purphoros

Land:
21x Mountain
1x Mutavault

Sideboard:
4x Peak Eruption
3x Act of Treason
4x Skullcrack
4x Mizzium Mortars (If I stick with shocks in main)
[/deck]

Thoughts? (Please? e.e I am bad at trusting my own judgement >.>)

[windstrider]

If you're going to run Pyromancer, then you'll want the Shocks to get the most value out of him. You can stall a lot of decks with a Pyromancer on the field and a Shock in hand. It's also good for when you need a Phoenix back.

That being said, Pyromancer doesn't feel right for this build.