[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Kazekirimaru]

Best format, not close.

Legacy > Standard > Block Constructed > Modern.

Draft is great. I don't consider sealed or Commander to be real formats.

Hey, your diagram is backwards.

I understand it probably looks correct where you're from, but here in the Northern hemisphere, > means "greater than."

I'm not the person to try and troll.

Such gravitas.

[Aodh]

How's everyone doing around here? No Magic for me this weekend, but several acquaintances went to SCG LA, one even to an 8-2 finish. Any good news from ya'll?

[Jack]

I'm doing very well. My dad and I took trip up to Boston to look at colleges I might attend, and it's been very fun. I ate at a Brazilian steakhouse tonight, and my only regret is that I had never done so before.

[Lightning_Dolt]

After this weekend I'm feeling a bit frustrated. My hot steak has ended and I've gone from not losing anything to not winning anything. I guess it's karma for trolling RivalTuna?

Feeling burnt out. Losing everything is not fun. Feel like I'm being trolled by Japan't refusal to follow the rest of the world's meta.

Also, how do you reconcile playing the best deck (which you hate for various reasons) / playing a deck you actually like?

Big Boros / Boros Devotion have merged, but in a direction I can't stand with the worst mana-curve of all time / a lot of cards I just
hate.

Rakdos Aggro and White-based Boros were big winners this weekend, but I don't know if I want to go in that direction. At least they are aggro decks with a fuckin curve.

Advice RedBros?

Stop trying to force badly positioned decks. Lay sonething that attacks your meta, not a meta from a different country!

I'm having issues nailing down the meta, as it seems to be random every time. Japanese players seem to play random shit (even at the GP level) as often as they play real decks. My LGS was half Esper on Friday, a few mono-black, 5x R/x, and a couple G/W/x. I tried to meta for that.

At the GPT I went to, (hosted by that store) everyone was playing U/W, Mono-U, or random three colour decks. U/W should be favourable, but I lost to it three times. I feel like I've hit a wall and I'm not sure how to break through. I wish I had dragons this weekend though, that's for sure.

[NerdBoyWonder]

probably going for Bant, because:
a) Esper Commander looks like a giant target for multiplayer games (although the artifact sub-commander looks fun to build around)
b) I like doing degenerate things with Deadeye Navigator
c) access to green
b) MOTHERFUCKING BIRD SOLDIER

B & C is why I use Riku as my commander. I get:
A) Access to mountains cause fuck yeah.
B) Kiki Jiki + Zealous Conscripts
C) Degenerate things with Deadeye
D) access to green

[photodyer]

Wescoe must be dancing a jig...WW takes SCGLA. Drop dudes + protect from removal = profit. The high-curve red that took second seems like an interesting meta call...it will be interesting to see if it will stay viable once control shifts to compensate.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Wescoe must be dancing a jig...WW takes SCGLA. Drop dudes + protect from removal = profit. The high-curve red that took second seems like an interesting meta call...it will be interesting to see if it will stay viable once control shifts to compensate.

That's the deck I was talking about, but I just hate the mana curve / Dragons + Hammer / BTE > Nothing.

[zemanjaski]

Well what DO you like playing with? Do you have an example? Maybe we can brew something for you. PyroRed was actually based on the old BR Zendikar Vampires lists that I liked playing.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Well what DO you like playing with? Do you have an example? Maybe we can brew something for you. PyroRed was actually based on the old BR Zendikar Vampires lists that I liked playing.

I really like playing the Big Boros list from Adrian Sullivan. It that feels a lot like Sledgehammer and it plays all cards that I like. It just feels like something is missing from that list. It has some consistency issues.

I also really like RbDW back in Shards / Zen Standard, but that was OP as hell, especially in an all jund meta. PyroRed feels kind of close to that.

The original Boros Deck Wins was an old favourite too, but we don't have an [card]Umezawa's Jitte[/card] to build around. This weekend did prove that WW splash
red is viable.

Maybe R/B is just the best way to go, since I seem to need to attack Control (where thoughtseize would help), midrange (where more hard removal would help) and ignore aggro for the most part, since it seems underrepresented here.

[RaidaTheBlade]

And decks have been removed from ebay... Time to crack 'em open and see what I wanna use in my other edh's e.e

[zemanjaski]

You could try mono red pyro; I think you're like me in that you seem to be very averse to risking mana issues, am I right?

I want my deck to just do the same thing every game so I can worry about just having to outplay my opponent; the PyroRedlust is good for that. The Boris version is more powerful (objectively), but I like the greater consistency of Mono Red (also more Mutavaults). I'm willing to suffer playing through some obstacles for the consistency.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I wonder if something like this could be viable (Based on Dos Rakis):

[deck]Lands (23)
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mutavault
8 Mountain
11 Swamp

Creatures (22)
4 Spike Jester
3 Exava, the Bloodwitch
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (15)
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Magma Jet
3 Rakdos Keyrune
4 Lightning Strike
2 Doom Blade
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price
3 Traitorous Instinct
2 Doom Blade
1 Erobos, God of the Dead
2 Burning Earth[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

You could try mono red pyro; I think you're like me in that you seem to be very averse to risking mana issues, am I right?

I want my deck to just do the same thing every game so I can worry about just having to outplay my opponent; the PyroRedlust is good for that. The Boris version is more powerful (objectively), but I like the greater consistency of Mono Red (also more Mutavaults). I'm willing to suffer playing through some obstacles for the consistency.

It it weren't for there being creatures I think I need hard removal for, then yes. Master of Waves doesn't see a lot of play at my LGS, and Electrickery could handle it well enough in Mono-Red. I just seem to hit a lot of Loxodon Smiters and Boros Reckoners and stuff like that
that demand removal.

[zemanjaski]

Play the flipping scrylands!!

[zemanjaski]

Play the FFS version, now you don't need removals or them. And don't give me the "I don't like BTE" crap. Neither do I. But I like winning more than complaining about losing

[Lightning_Dolt]

Play the FFS version, now you don't need removals or them. And don't give me the "I don't like BTE" crap. Neither do I. But I like winning more than complaining about losing

I understand. I'd just rather play Ash Zealot.

I actually really like this list (won the GP in South America this weekend) and I think it might work ok in my meta (not just because it won the GP). Now sure about Madcap Skills though...

Luis Navas
GP Santiago Winner

[deck]Lands (22)
4 Blood Crypt
8 Mountain
10 Swamp

Creatures (28)
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4
Mogis's Marauder
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Spike Jester
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Tormented Hero
3 Xathrid Necromancer

Spells (10)
2 Doom Blade
4 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills

Sideboard (15)
2 Burning Earth
2 Dreadbore
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Whip of Erebos[/deck]

[Lightning_Dolt]

Play the flipping scrylands!!

I play the scrylands in boros.

[RaidaTheBlade]

Just realized a bonus. I've got the naya and the jund commander decks. After removing what I want for my other edhs, I can combine th eremnants for a new r/g edh

[zemanjaski]

I think it's a meta-call against Mono U / Mono B, both of which are very soft to it.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I think it's a meta-call against Mono U / Mono B, both of which are very soft to it.

I understand I guess. Especially if they can't doom blade your guy because he's black...

[Link]

J_S don't play that lsit if you're not gonna man up with the madcap skills.

Its seriously just what makes the deck work, and I regret not playing more of them in my version (as well as the maindeck necromancers over magma jets and no guild gates).

Its haste.dec and just kills the fuck out of people. Madcap skills is just another spike jester that you put on a dude. This deck absolutely WRECKS any green midrange deck and still has plenty of game against control

it can be soft to the red mirror packing reckoners, but it has such explosive power that it can even outrace that if you play your cards right.

I do like that that it has 12 creatures that are immune to doom blade/ultimate price.... makes me miss the list a bit and the direction we took with it (thrill-kill assasins were nice but shred-freaks are just better against a wider variety of decks and more intune with what the deck is doing)

[Kazekirimaru]

Wescoe must be dancing a jig...WW takes SCGLA. Drop dudes + protect from removal = profit. The high-curve red that took second seems like an interesting meta call...it will be interesting to see if it will stay viable once control shifts to compensate.

White Weenie always seems to do rather well early after rotation.

That said, hell yes.

[Helios]

JS, it sounds like Walter White is your deck. The mana isn't inconsistent, you have hard removal, you get to play Ash Zealot, and it has a good Esper + random shit matchup.

(Ashley > Emily forever. I understand bro.)

[zemanjaski]

<< CFB writer.

[zemanjaski]

Helios, have you ever had a threesome? Then shut the fuck up.

[Lightning_Dolt]

JS, it sounds like Walter White is your deck. The mana isn't inconsistent, you have hard removal, you get to play Ash Zealot, and it has a good Esper + random shit matchup.

(Ashley > Emily forever. I understand bro.)

Is there a way to jam Stormbreath Dragons in? I can't help thinking I would have got there in my U/W matches if I had teh dagrons. Walter white is already 23 land, maybe jam a couple dragons in the board?

[zemanjaski]

You can definitely play 1 main. I've toyed with that idea for a while.

[Kazekirimaru]

<< CFB writer.

Which sounds great on the surface, but this also means you're that much more associated with Travis Woo.

Hell, they might even say both your names in the same sentence occasionally.

Gross.

[Helios]

Helios, have you ever had a threesome? Then shut the fuck up.

http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.p ... 922#p48922

[photodyer]

J_S don't play that lsit if you're not gonna man up with the madcap skills.

Its seriously just what makes the deck work, and I regret not playing more of them in my version (as well as the maindeck necromancers over magma jets and no guild gates).

Its haste.dec and just kills the fuck out of people. Madcap skills is just another spike jester that you put on a dude. This deck absolutely WRECKS any green midrange deck and still has plenty of game against control

it can be soft to the red mirror packing reckoners, but it has such explosive power that it can even outrace that if you play your cards right.

I do like that that it has 12 creatures that are immune to doom blade/ultimate price.... makes me miss the list a bit and the direction we took with it (thrill-
kill assasins were nice but shred-freaks are just better against a wider variety of decks and more intune with what the deck is doing)

+1 Fates comments, Johnny. Every one of us were rolling eyes and foot-dragging about Skills...until we ran it. You drop it on your T1 and swing for 5 then drop 2 more power on the board, and people are just like "Ulp..." You're running removal main, so you keep shooting their drops and swinging in with your unblockable Lava Axe--if they don't have removal, they die. T2 you side Skills out if you expect your opponent to have an answer for it (assuming they saw it, anyway). Honestly, I think the deck (I like Nuwen's early lists a little better and SB should definitely be retooled to your meta) is in a decent place, though I agree with James that PyroRed can take down any deck in the format if piloted carefully.

There's no easy answer here...the simple truth is that there is no silver bullet deck in Standard right now that's going to
take down everything. You can metagame to what extent you can, but if your LGS is going to be in flux (which is quite likely for now because there is no dominant deck), then your best bet is to lock in on ONE DECK and play the hell out of it. You're going to be much more successful in the long haul by knowing one deck well and being able to maximize lines of play than you are by trying to roll the dice on running the "right" deck. If you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, then run a couple of utterly different decks (zeman example--PyroRed and UB Control, though he did I believe leave off on the control deck for the most part and can correct me if I'm wrong) and move between them to keep people guessing.

Bottom line, don't try to deal with variance by adding more variance. If you are taking a beating, look first at your play. If you are playing solid, then look at variance (did your deck wench out on you or did you face a string of nut draws?). If your play is good and your
deck is giving you good hands but your're still consistently getting beat, then consider that the deck might not be right for the meta. But unless you can rule out the first two factors, you should stick with a deck you understand and like rather than jumping ship every time you hit rough water.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Great advice, thank you.

[zemanjaski]

Just an observation, you have a proclivity to blame the deck rather than your own play, which is natural. But none of us play perfect magic and while decks will come and go with new formats, the skills you develop now are forever. Focus on growing as a player is the best advice I can give. I don't have a win % 10 higher than others playing my 75 because I'm 10 % more lucky.

[Alex]

Play the FFS version, now you don't need removals or them. And don't give me the "I don't like BTE" crap. Neither do I. But I like winning more than complaining about losing

I understand. I'd just rather play Ash Zealot.

I actually really like this list (won the GP in South America this weekend) and I think it might work ok in my meta (not just because it won the GP). Now sure about Madcap Skills though...

[b:
1bqhk2xx]Luis Navas
GP Santiago Winner[/b]

[deck]Lands (22)
4 Blood Crypt
8 Mountain
10 Swamp

Creatures (28)
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Spike Jester
1 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Tormented Hero
3 Xathrid Necromancer

Spells (10)
2 Doom Blade
4 Lightning Strike
4 Madcap Skills

Sideboard (15)
2 Burning Earth
2 Dreadbore
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Whip of Erebos[/deck]

I actually kind of hate the 1-of Thrill-Kill Assassin, that card is surprisingly good. I liked it more than Rakdos Shred-Freak a majority of the time. (Has synergy with Exava, deathtouch, etc. Does die to Ultimate Price though.)

I played basically the same deck this weekend at the classic. It wasn't great because I couldn't run through the red mirrors, but I think if I had made it to higher tables I would have been a little better off. I ended up
going X-3 and just dropping.

[Christen]

There was a high profile tournament here last week (which I wasn't able to attend due to schedule conflicts). Top 8 looked like this:

RG Mihara vs RDW
MBD vs MBD
MUD vs MUD
MUD vs Esper

Finals was RDW and MUD/g. Guess who won.

[magicdownunder]

There was a high profile tournament here last week (which I wasn't able to attend due to schedule conflicts). Top 8 looked like this:

RG Mihara vs RDW
MBD vs MBD
MUD vs MUD
MUD vs Esper

Finals was RDW and MUD/g. Guess who won.

SO much monoU .

[Christen]

Oh I meant finals was Mono Red vs MBD splashing green.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Just an observation, you have a proclivity to blame the deck rather than your own play, which is natural. But none of us play perfect magic and while decks will come and go with new formats, the skills you develop now are forever. Focus on growing as a player is the best advice I can give. I don't have a win % 10 higher than others playing my 75 because I'm 10 % more lucky.

Unless I've made obvious play mistakes, I tend to blame the deck. It's hard to know if it's me being unlucky, them being really lucky or an issue with the deck when things go wrong. If I make a mistake I'm aware of, or someone else tells me about, I write it down so I will remember it and learn from it. That happened on Friday, when I forgot I couldn't trade a
Reckoner with an Unflinching Witchstalker because of hexproof. I wrote that play mistake down. I don't really think I made any identifiable play mistakes on Sunday in either event (except forgetting the Mutavaults in WW, but that's a construction mistake). Those games were very close, and I felt like I was robbed in both. Maybe we just stick with Walter White and try to force it.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'll be back to posting regularly now. Binge played magic this weekend(obviously). Learned a lot.

1) Trust your gut. On my LGS's facebook group, I made a post about how I should just play mono-red agro three days before the Open. Got beat by vundo playing walter white which bumped me out of top 32.

2) Structure your playtesting. Despite my buddy playing my same list and losing only to the top .01% of players at the tourney, we mutually agreed that our testing could have been much better and we should have either evolved our deck more or played something else. Log results. Build a gauntlet. Discuss, discuss, discuss.

3) Most "super pros" are awesome. Kibler was awesome, Huey was amazing, and Patrick Sully was obviously the shit. I look forward to killing people with my Foil signed Hammer of purphoros in the future. Not really a point, but worth mentioning.

4) Don't ever lose focus. This is something that
you intrinsically know to be true, but you lose sight of it as a tourney carries on. While I don't know how I lost R3, G2, I remember there being a point where I didn't think I could possibly lose and I lost focus which probably led to a misplay that ruined my tourney. While I'm pretty sure I played fine for the rest of the day and it just wasn't in the cards, I was definitely distracted in a lot of my matches thinking about other things and this combined with drawing slightly sub-par led too immense frustration following close losses which compounds itself into tilt further ruining my odds of doing well. I need to be like Josh Utter Layton and just play more robotically during long events as that's the best way to conserve mental energy and allows you to get "in the zone" which I haven't felt in months. While I enjoy being the jovial player who everyone loves to play against and be around, I enjoy winning more.

[LP, of the Fires]

Just an observation, you have a proclivity to blame the deck rather than your own play, which is natural. But none of us play perfect magic and while decks will come and go with new formats, the skills you develop now are forever. Focus on growing as a player is the best advice I can give. I don't have a win % 10 higher than others playing my 75 because I'm 10 % more lucky.

Unless I've made obvious play mistakes, I tend to blame the deck. It's hard to know if it's me being unlucky, them being really lucky or an issue with the deck when things go wrong. If I make a mistake
I'm aware of, or someone else tells me about, I write it down so I will remember it and learn from it. That happened on Friday, when I forgot I couldn't trade a Reckoner with an Unflinching Witchstalker because of hexproof. I wrote that play mistake down. I don't really think I made any identifiable play mistakes on Sunday in either event (except forgetting the Mutavaults in WW, but that's a construction mistake). Those games were very close, and I felt like I was robbed in both. Maybe we just stick with Walter White and try to force it.

The major point is that blaming the deck isn't constructive unless you blame the deck construction which is an area that's tangible and you can learn from(and also your fault for since you decided to construct it that way and play it). While I can definitely sympathize with being mad at variance and bad players playing bad decks(luckily I didn't eat a loss to the latter), it's best to just analyze every decision tree
you came across and look for possible lines that would have been better and led to a win before blaming the deck so you can justify your frustration. It's very hard to face the fact that we fucked up sometimes, but it's a winning formula in the long run and improves us as players and people.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Just an observation, you have a proclivity to blame the deck rather than your own play, which is natural. But none of us play perfect magic and while decks will come and go with new formats, the skills you develop now are forever. Focus on growing as a player is the best advice I can give. I don't have a win % 10 higher than others playing my 75 because I'm 10 % more lucky.

Unless I've made
obvious play mistakes, I tend to blame the deck. It's hard to know if it's me being unlucky, them being really lucky or an issue with the deck when things go wrong. If I make a mistake I'm aware of, or someone else tells me about, I write it down so I will remember it and learn from it. That happened on Friday, when I forgot I couldn't trade a Reckoner with an Unflinching Witchstalker because of hexproof. I wrote that play mistake down. I don't really think I made any identifiable play mistakes on Sunday in either event (except forgetting the Mutavaults in WW, but that's a construction mistake). Those games were very close, and I felt like I was robbed in both. Maybe we just stick with Walter White and try to force it.

The major point is that blaming the deck isn't constructive unless you blame the deck construction which is an area that's tangible and you can learn from(and also your fault for since you decided to construct it that way and play it).
While I can definitely sympathize with being mad at variance and bad players playing bad decks(luckily I didn't eat a loss to the latter), it's best to just analyze every decision tree you came across and look for possible lines that would have been better and led to a win before blaming the deck so you can justify your frustration. It's very hard to face the fact that we fucked up sometimes, but it's a winning formula in the long run and improves us as players and people.

I think I did the best I could with what I had.