[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:25 pm

Wait, are you admitting your dick isn't that long?

Jack · Postby **Jack** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:25 pm

Figuratively, Zem.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:25 pm

I just figured you'd know since that's like 80% of what this page is.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:27 pm

Interesting page I guess.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:27 pm

I'll wait while you guys brew something relevant.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:28 pm

We'll wait until you're done.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:30 pm

I can amuse myself tuning a list in my head, you go.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:30 pm

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:32 pm

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Trading Post

Just checking the wording.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:33 pm

Unplayable

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:39 pm

No one challenges my claim?

I take my victory graciously

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Trading Post + Elixir basically reads "Gain 5 life. Shuffle Elixir and your graveyard into your library. Draw a card."

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:44 pm

[deck]UB Artifact Control[/deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Trading Post
2 Ratchet Bomb

Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

Instants
1 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique

Sorceries
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize

Lands
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Island
5 Swamp
[/deck]

*people I am willing to hear the opinion of: Helios, Alex, LP, Kait, Valdarith, Rcwraspy, MagicDownUnder

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:44 pm

"I'm the best card reviewer in the game," Tubehunter said on the field immediately after the game. "When you try me with a sorry player like Z, that's the result you going to get."

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:46 pm

No one can fight the tide forever

Dechs Kaison · Postby **Dechs Kaison** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:48 pm

Can't stop the signal.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:48 pm

[deck]UB Artifact Control[/deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Trading Post
2 Ratchet Bomb

Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

Instants
1 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique

Sorceries
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize

Lands
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Island
5 Swamp
[/deck]

*people I am willing to hear the opinion of: Helios, Alex, LP, Kait, Valdarith, Rcwraspy, MagicDownUnder

Now the "sideboard Nightveil Spectre" plan is pretty
brutal.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:51 pm

"I was making sure everyone knew Z was a mediocre analyst," Tubehunter said. "And when you try the best analyst in the game with a mediocre player, that's what happens. I appreciate that he knows that now. There has been a lot of talk from him running his mouth about me."

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:52 pm

Acutally, I think the deck is just better as more of a tapout deck. More thoughtseize, less counters in the main perhaps?

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:53 pm

Probably. I don't know why you didn't come to this conclusion sooner

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:55 pm

Here's some UB Control:

[deck]
Creatures: 7
4 Desecration Demon
3 Prognostic Sphinx

Spells: 25
4 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
3 Ultimate Price
2 Bile Blight
2 Warped Physique
3 Syncopate
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Dissolve
3 Underworld Connections

Planeswalkers: 3
3 Jace, Architect of Thought

Lands: 25
[/deck]

SB more control elements against creature-lite decks and Drown against Aggro. Not polished, but probably works fine. I took really good cards and smashed them together - it was very hard.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:03 pm

It's also very bad.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:05 pm

Lots of removal against creature-based strategies and disruption/CA against Control. What's the glaring weakness?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:12 pm

There's too much removal. Unless you're expecting an aggro heavy meta you're giving up too much game 1 vs. control. You're going to be a huge dog to any other blue control deck with your choice of endgame. Your devotion matchups should be good. Overall it's a bit clunky and only 25 land is very, very sketchy (26 with early draw is industry standard for a resin and you're even running UC which limits you further).

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Isn't Devotion the majority of the meta?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:18 pm

[deck]UB Artifact Control[/deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Trading Post
2 Ratchet Bomb

Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

Instants
1 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique

Sorceries
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize

Lands
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Island
5 Swamp
[/deck]

*people I am willing to hear the opinion of: Helios, Alex, LP, Kait, Valdarith, Rcwraspy, MagicDownUnder

I think you should hear yarpus' opinion too. His opinions are
the best ever

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:21 pm

Mono U and Mono B are about 35% following mtgo stats.

But seriously, your mana / draw situation.

And playing UC on top of that gives up even more points to aggro.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:26 pm

[deck]UB Artifact Control[/deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Trading Post
2 Ratchet Bomb

Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

Instants
1 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique

Sorceries
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize

Lands
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Island
5 Swamp
[/deck]

*people I am willing to hear the opinion of: Helios, Alex, LP, Kait, Valdarith, Rcwraspy, MagicDownUnder

I like the idea, and this archetype leaves a lot of room for
exploration. We have to ask ourselves a lot of questions because there's about a million ways to build the deck.

1) How many counters do we want to run? We want to play Thoughtseize obviously but what are things that we can't deal with outside of Ratchet Bomb that will see a lot of play? I think we can run 4-6 counters in the deck alongside Thoughtseize and Ratchet Bomb and be okay.

2) I think we need Divination in the list, but I could be wrong. I do know UW has been very successful running Divination alongside Revelation but they do have the upside of getting to run Dsphere and Verdict so they can generally tap out without a lot of fear. I know running Jace is a similar thing but coming down a turn later is significant enough to warrant discussion.

3) Ashiok. Think about it. He's a wincon on his own due to mill and does work vs control. I've seen him singlehandedly win games in control mirrors due to his ultimate and buy time against aggro. He also has upside with Trading Post since we can sac
dudes we steal to get back our artifacts.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:29 pm

Just checked out the decks on mtgo-stats.com and it looks like very heavy creature strategies make up the vast majority of the meta with the top 3 decks played being B, U, and R Devotion while Control makes up like 5-10% of the meta... so it seems to me that I'd want a deck with a favorable Aggro/Devotion game 1 as opposed to a favorable Control game 1, right?

Also, what's the specific grudge against 25 lands? My curve is
Xcc - 3
1cc - 4
2cc - 9
3cc - 9
4cc - 7
5cc - 3
25 lands gives me a better than 50% chance of having 5 mana on curve without factoring in card draw, at which point I can cast my most expensive spell or multiples of my most common spells. It gives me a 67% chance of having 4 by turn 4 which is probably the deck's most important plateau.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:31 pm

these are facts

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Also, take a look at Ring of Three Wishes. LOL.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Have you ever actually played a 25 land control deck with no early card draw? Serious question.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:34 pm

Congratulations TubeHunter you're back on my blacklist. Hope it was worth it.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:37 pm

Thanks Val.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:40 pm

Have you ever actually played a 25 land control deck with no early card draw? Serious question.

Played Tempest/Urza's Draw Go with the only early card draw being Whispers of the Muse on 25 land. That was a long time ago, but the deck worked fine and didn't have the ability to respond to early threats or "catch up" with removal like UB does.

Also, looking at the list, it seems like it could still have a game against very aggressive lists even if it stalled on 3 mana (the probability of getting 3 mana by turn 3 being 85%) for a few turns since all its answers cost 3 or less.

Dechs Kaison · Postby **Dechs Kaison** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:42 pm

I honestly can't tell which of you is being serious, if any.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:42 pm

*Khaos is secretly glad that Z doesn't want his opinion on U/B, and somewhat feels like he dodged a bullet. *

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:45 pm

I honestly can't tell which of you is being serious, if any.

What's your issue with the current conversation?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:45 pm

[deck]
3 thoughtseize
2 ratchet bomb
1 elixir of immortality
4 devour flesh
4 psychic strike
3 ashiok, nightmare weaver
2 divination
4 hero's downfall
2 drown in sorrow
2 jace, architect of thought
2 trading post
1 haunted plate mail
1 ring of three wishes
3 opportunity

4 temple of deceit
4 watery grave
2 dimir guildgate
4 mutavault
8 swamp
4 island
[/deck]

Maybe?

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[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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