[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:48 pm

Gross. I hate devoting actual card slots to a mill strategy.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:51 pm

Ashiok isn't just a mill card though. And Psychic Strike is only being played as a counter that isn't UU.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:52 pm

It could be Syncopate but it's worse against control late game.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:55 pm

Fair enough, but if the game plan isn't to mill them to death then I think Ashiok should probably get the axe. It's no Drownyard at the best of times and that second ability is pretty meh.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:58 pm

The second ability is very good against creature decks. You're basically x-for-1ing them as long as Ashiok is on the table. And when he ultimates against control it's game over.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:02 pm

That's a step in the right direction I think. I'm also not in love with Ashiok; I ended up cutting him pretty early on after testing.

I like Divination, it further promotes tapout, which works well with discard, the main reason to be black.

I kinda am tempted to run no walkers to blank even more cards, but that's probably going too deep.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:04 pm

Or maybe it's just so crazy it might work....

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:05 pm

I don't think you need Drown in Sorrow maindeck in this meta tbh.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:11 pm

How does Zem see his computer screen with his head so far up his ass?

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:14 pm

Congratulations TubeHunter you're back on my blacklist. Hope it was worth it.

I love you too.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm

I do admit that Ashiok is a pet card of mine so I may be incorrect to play him, but I've seen him do so much work firsthand that I know he can be good.

I don't think going with no planeswalkers is going too deep. It would even further promote the artifact substrategy while blanking a lot of cards in our opponent's deck. We can always board some in for next leveling. Jace, Memory Adept seems particularly juicy.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:18 pm

How does Zem see his computer screen with his head so far up his ass?

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:19 pm

Three new pages? James must be deckbrewing.

Wait wait, before I even look, I'm guessing you've called for a drownyard reprint at least twice, yeah?

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:26 pm

Ashiok is garbage.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:27 pm

[deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Trading Post

Instants
2 Bile Blight
2 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
1 Essence Scatter
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
3 Syncopate

Sorceries
2 Divination
4 Thoughtseize

Lands
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Swamp
3 Island

Sideboard
1 Doom Blade
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Duress
1 Gainsay
1 Negate
1 Nightveil Spectre
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reap Intellect
[/deck]

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:31 pm

Three new pages? James must be deckbrewing.

Wait wait, before I even look, I'm guessing you've called for a drownyard reprint at least twice, yeah?

I think I've started calling for it in my sleep tbh.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Is Pip aware you're cheating on her with Drownyard?

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:35 pm

I considered looking for a picture of the both of you and putting Drownyard over her face in the photo but I decided that's more effort than I'm willing to put forth this early.

So just imagine the joke. It was a killer in my head.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:36 pm

I liked it.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:38 pm

Pip: that's a cool new banner you've got
Zem: thanks! I like it too
Pip: I recognise Trafalgar Kaw, what's the other thing?
Zem: what's with all the questions? Who said its anything? I've got to go now...

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:42 pm

[deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Trading Post

Instants
2 Bile Blight
2 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
1 Essence Scatter
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
3 Syncopate

Sorceries
2 Divination
4 Thoughtseize

Lands
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Swamp
3 Island

Sideboard
1 Doom Blade
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Duress
1 Gainsay
1 Negate
1 Nightveil Spectre
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reap Intellect
[/deck]

Getting closer I feel like. I wonder if Prophetic Prism is too deep though. It's no Ichor Wellspring here. But
I do get the synergy with Specter for games two and three. Three Ratchet Bomb may be too many.

I wish we could run Read the Bones.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:43 pm

Z, Drownyard is not coming back. Live in the now, man!

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:44 pm

If you really love Drownyard, let it go. If it comes back to you, then it was meant to be.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:48 pm

@ Val.

- prophetic prism is to cycle early, then loop with two active posts late. It's actually divination with an active post that you can keep rebuying (and break up the cost). That's the *idea*
- maybe we don't need 3 opportunity then?
- I run three ratchet bomb now; I just like the card a lot. It's another answer to aggro; kills artifacts (god weapons) and enchantments (like detention sphere) which we're otherwise soft too; can cycle it with post if truly dead. It's NEVER great, but it is very flexible.
- I wish we could run read the bones too...maybe 2 copies would be ok in place of divination...(ill at least test).

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:48 pm

You're good value Khaos

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:51 pm

You're good value Khaos

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:51 pm

I just bought some Drownyards yesterday for that fun mill feels.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:56 pm

It's a good feel.

Almost as good as Reap Intellect.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 pm

With the Prisms we could afford to cut one Opportunity and lower the curve a bit.

Only thing that scares me about Read the Bones is the lifeloss alongside running four Thoughtseize. I just don't see it working out well.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:58 pm

Actually liking Zem's deck so far with morning tests. As someone who doesn't play a lot of control, wouldn't we want at least one more Essence Scatter in such a creature dense format?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:59 pm

Yeah it would be very ambitious. In a sufficentky aggro light environment it's probably good; in an unknown probably bad.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:00 pm

Actually liking Zem's deck so far with morning tests. As someone who doesn't play a lot of control, wouldn't we want at least one more Essence Scatter in such a creature dense format?

Very possibly. The exact numbers are completely untuned.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:01 pm

I like how much pressure this deck can put on enemy walkers, even without Downfall.

Pedros · Postby **Pedros** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:04 pm

@Zem

Isnt Pilfered Plans better than Divination? It also lets you screw opponents Scry from temples / jets.

No wincon in Jace, Memory Adept? I know you want to win by natural mill, but lets be serious, you might not do it. There is close to no value from graveyard in this set, so milling doesnt harm you any way.
Also I heard drawing cards is good.

Soul Ransom for any creature deck in sb? You can sacrifice creature after they discard cards to free enchanted creature to get even more value.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:07 pm

Is consuming aberration worth mentioning?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:07 pm

Soul Ransom is interesting.

Pilfered Plans also, may be some value there. Need to test the mana base, but probably ok.

The deck actually wins with damage (haunted Platemail + Mutavault).

Do we want Encroaching Wastes for Nykthos?

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm

I don't think you want encroaching wastes at the expense of mutavault.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:13 pm

Actually, if you're running three Trading Post you may be able to pull Read the Bones off. Just discard excess land.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:24 pm

MBC would have 10 dead cards game 1. Pretty funny.

rcwraspy · Postby **rcwraspy** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:33 pm

[deck]UB Artifact Control[/deck]
Artifacts
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Haunted Platemail
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Trading Post
2 Ratchet Bomb

Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought

Instants
1 Devour Flesh
3 Dissolve
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique

Sorceries
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize

Lands
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave

7 Island
5 Swamp
[/deck]

*people I am willing to hear the opinion of: Helios, Alex, LP, Kait, Valdarith, Rcwraspy, MagicDownUnder

Happy to make the list but that's really not my archetype, so
not sure how useful I'll be.

A few thoughts on this original list, some of which were fixed in a future list.

I think you're prone to drawing the wrong half of your deck here, and without much filter or raw CA like Rev from UW, that hurts a lot. Read the Bones goes deep, but all of a sudden that hurts with shocks and thoughtseize. What cards are you MOST afraid of? Should some number of Thoughtseize be Duress, even though it can't strip out creatures? I like Trading Post a lot. If you're drawing cards that are dead to a specific matchup, you need to get some sort of value out of them and this list can't run Pack Rat since all of a sudden it turns on any deck's removal. I like Read the Bones better than UC here because it lets you go deeper. Again, since you're prone to drawing the wrong things, you need quantity of cards seen rather than the consistency that UC gives.

I think 1 Warped Physique should be 1 Far//Away.

I think with 3 Dissolve and 2 Syncopate
you're very weak to UW game 1. How are you dealing with Elspeth? You don't have the counter density to fight over a Hero's Downfall, and Ratchet Bomb is a bad secondary option.

This may not be what you want, but once the B/R scyland comes in Born you may want to consider splashing red for 3 cards: Counterflux, Izzet Charm, and (least likely) Wild Guess. Guess doesn't see play and is usually considered bad, but again, I feel your list needs to get some value out of dead cards.

Dies to Removal

[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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