[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Kaitscralt]

Do we have any judges? Had a bit of a situation at FNM and I want to know if it was handled correctly.

My opponent had a Japanese Shadowborn Demon that I can't read (I'm in Japan, most of the cards are Japanese and I just have them memorized. My problem, not his).

My opponent "forgets" his trigger (At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are fewer than six creature cards in your graveyard, sacrifice a creature.) for three turns, and I don't remember it / can't read it.

This allows him to chump otherwise lethal attacks and then cast a second demon (this time in English). I read the card and at this point a judge is called.

What should happen?

you should probably each get a warning.

at FNM, who
knows what happened

[hamfactorial]

JS:

The new trigger rules say that if it's been less than a full turn cycle since the trigger was missed, the opponent (in this case, you) can decide whether you want the trigger placed on the stack during whatever phase of the game you're in at the time of the judge call.

Since he forgot his trigger for 2+ full turns, and you didn't remind him, they can't be dealt with. The most recent one can, however.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Ok, it was handled correctly. Thanks.

Rant

---

That's bloody ridiculous. How the hell can my opponent not be held resposible for remembering his triggest which are detrimental and contribute dirrectly to him winning a game and subsequently a match that he would not have won if either of us had remembered?

Whether it was or not, it really appeared to be cheating.

What's to stop people from intentionally forgetting detrimental triggers?

Bad rules are bad.

It should be a game loss, since without missing those triggers (intentionally or not) he would have lost. Putting the triggers on the stack later does nothing because he then had 6 creatures in his GY.

If it was me and I was not trying to cheat, then the situation was discovered I would concede and appologize.

Also, if wizards could stop changing the damn trigger rules, that would be great.

I'll remember this, and
try to gain something from the experience, but I'm not very happy.

[Kaitscralt]

If you had remembered, you'd have won. Sucks but thems the breaks.

[Lightning_Dolt]

If you had remembered, you'd have won. Sucks but thems the breaks.

Language Barrier = 1
JS = 0

I wonder how many times that's happened? I see SBD more often than I should, but I think I've been missing the trigger everytime

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tonight was strange... played vs tribal minotaurs, junk reanimator (with the SBDs) and Naya Hexproof.

The naya hexproof deck played advent > armed > Goreclan > you're dead. That was interesting I guess.

[hamfactorial]

Watch out for foreigners at any Magic event, they're very selective about when they know how to speak English.

[Stardust]

It's the responsibility of both players to maintain the game state. Basically, as far as the judges are concerned, you were just as much at fault as he was.

If this happened repeatedly with the same guy eventually he would get a disqualification for cheating. But missing triggers happens way too often to call it a game loss. They like to keep things as black and white as possible, so you'd never want to have the judges in a position where they have to say, "Well, you would have won the game, so this time it's a game loss... But this guy over here missed the same trigger, but it didn't matter, so carry on."

[Lightning_Dolt]

I strongly dislike hexproof as a mechanic.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Ham, I'm the foreigner lol.

I'm honest though.

[Lightning_Dolt]

It's the responsibility of both players to maintain the game state. Basically, as far as the judges are concerned, you were just as much at fault as he was.

If this happened repeatedly with the same guy eventually he would get a disqualification for cheating. But missing triggers happens way too often to call it a game loss. They like to keep things as black and white as possible, so you'd never want to have the judges in a position where they have to say, "Well, you would have won the game, so this time it's a game loss... But this guy over here missed the same trigger, but it didn't matter, so carry on."

I understand. Thanks for the clarification.

[windstrider]

Hexproof was fine as a mechanic when it was named Shroud. If something can't be targeted, then it shouldn't be able to be targeted by anything.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Ham, I'm the foreigner lol.

I'm honest though.

Are you American? Americans are never the foreigners because we don't own the world only as a formality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJApFqXkCFo

[Purp]

Zem, can you tell Conley Woods to stop trying to make a dredge work in standard?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Hexproof was fine as a mechanic when it was named Shroud. If something can't be targeted, then it shouldn't be able to be targeted by anything.

Agree.

[Alex]

Hexproof was fine as a mechanic when it was named Shroud. If something can't be targeted, then it shouldn't be able to be targeted by anything.

I disagree. Hexproof is not that good when there is nothing in the environment that makes it overpowered.

There is a reason why the hexproof deck of today is like tier 3.

[Link]

its only because the mana is even shittier than last season, trust me.

[Kaitscralt]

Soon WOTC will decide Hexproof isn't working right and the True-Name Nemesis ability will become the norm

[Mcdonalds]

Dark confidant makes me lose life

[Self Medicated]

At a competitive REL, I believe the judge has the right to murder both of you.

I lol'd.

[Kaitscralt]

Soon WOTC will decide Hexproof isn't working right and the True-Name Nemesis ability will become the norm

Dies to Supreme Verdict and Drown in Sorrow.

I remain unimpressed by these bajillion-dollar, beloved, non-Standard creatures. Goyf dies to Doom Blade.

You can say what you want about me, but I'll be damned if I sit here and let you talk shit about Tarmothy T. Goyf.

[windstrider]

Then there's really no point to having Hexproof as a mechanic if it requires so much help to be any good. Hexproof by itself isn't that great, so you need something overpowered to make it good. That's bad design since the creature either sucks or it's overpowered.

At least Shroud made sense.

[Helios]

Um. Hexproof is nuts. Like...it is definitely 'that great'.

Is it 'bad' design because it prevents interactivity? I would say yes. But there's a large set of players who enjoy having cards their opponents cannot deal with outside of specific answers, so hexproof caters to those players in addition to being flavorful. It's strong in limited, playable on occasion in constructed (which is the lens your comment seemed to be coming through), and nuts in casual.

[DerWille]

I actually like hexproof. It's a solid answer to the "Draw, Go, Kill Your Dude at Combat" type of deck that can be mind numbingly boring to play against, but still lets creature combat be interesting because you can play combat tricks/enchantments.

[Purp]

I actually like hexproof. It's a solid answer to the "Draw, Go, Kill Your Dude at Combat" type of deck that can be mind numbingly boring to play against, but still lets creature combat be interesting because you can play combat tricks/enchantments.

qft

[photodyer]

We tend to get tunnel vision about Constructed; Hexproof is a fine mechanic in Limited.

[Kaitscralt]

I duno, there's been a lot of Limited talk the last couple of pages

[DocLawless]

Bought three packs on a whim. Searing Blood, Fanatic of Xenagos, Ephara and Temple of Enlightenment.

[Valdarith]

I lost one game at the prerelease when my opponent slammed a Benthic Giant, then Fated Infatuation targeting Benthic Giant, then Archetype of Imagination.

My Voyage's End was only able to do so much to stem the bleeding.

[Pedros]

Need deck for standard that doesnt use any or close to any btg cards - playing in std tournament tomorrow. Preferable monp black agro list, but dont have best list. Anyone couls post what you brewed from a closed forum or send it to me by pm so I could use it? Cant play rb as I dont have new phoenixes.

[Valdarith]

Play RB with Pain Seer and Temple of Malice? Is that few enough BNG cards to spark your interest?

[Alex]

Mono black hasn't been popular around here lately, so I think I might play Nuwen's BR list for the last time before swapping it into Pain Seer.dec.

I'd play Walter White but there is a lot of mono U and the matchup just makes me angry since they ALWAYS have the overloaded Rift when you're about to kill them.

[Kazekirimaru]

So, what's the word on Hearthstone? I've a few people now telling me to play it. Looks kinda kiddish, to me.

[DarthStabber]

Going to keep going with rdw, satyr nyx-smith seems to warrant some testing as a sideboard choice against control, if for no other reason than haste makes inspired a 1 turn wait rather than 2. Also looking at Flame-Wreathed Phoenix either as a replacement for fanatic of mogis, a supplement to him, or having him sit in the board for matchups where i'm forced to play control. Of course I'm always playing RDW so this shouldn't come as a big surprise, I just won't win as often.

[Self Medicated]

So, what's the word on Hearthstone? I've a few people now telling me to play it. Looks kinda kiddish, to me.

It's fun. Kinda reminds me of when MTG was first released. Rules are more simple. And no mana screw. There are no colors, and you get one mana crystal every turn. The graphics are pleasing and some of the sound effects have made me chuckle. I've been playing for a week now and I'm hooked.

EDIT: Check out the Hearthstone thread in the Entertainment forum.

[hamfactorial]

I've enjoyed Hearthstone, but it's definitely not a rich game like Magic. Grinding for cards isn't great, I'd rather have a real secondary market, but it's an easy game to figure out and a fun way to spend an hour.

[Kazekirimaru]

worth a shot.

[RaidaTheBlade]

I just went 0-2 drop at fnm, completely scrubbed out.

I'm just sorta out of it, both physically and mentally. Hell, I even forgot to wear the narwhal hat at all, and I had it with me.


I feel terrible right now... I'm honestly thinking about dropping magic for a long time, cause I'm just not having fun right now for some reason... Maybe just focus on casual formats for a while... i don't know.

I feel like scrumper... 

[Kaitscralt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSR6ZzjDZ94

[DroppinSuga]

Did your girlfriend leave you too?