[Primer] PyroRed

[amcfvieira]

I like that lis URw, but like Valdarith said maybe straight UR can be better.

Guys what are your opinions about the deck Michael kenney pilot (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6492&d=237247) in SCG opens that made great results? Can this be a beginning point to go big in Born of Gods (the 2 new sweepers from black will crush our little creatures)?
Anyone have the list that Colin Miller play in GP Vancouver and finish in 16? I see him in camere playing some kind of Pyrodragons list and I'm curious about this list.

Less than one week for Bord of the Gods what are the cards that we will put in Pyroboros/Pyrodragons? I see Searing Blood be a auto include in some number, and maybe Satyr Firedancer. Satyr will compete with Young Pyromancer, will get is own place or will not have place at all?

[LaZerBurn]

There's been some discussion of the RW tokens deck on the Big Boros thread - Pedros has played it the most I think.

[amcfvieira]

Thanks I will check there.

[Alex]

Jabberwocky and I were talking yesterday about porting the deck to Modern in some iteration. The list gets very strict upgrades by doing so, most notably Lightning Helix and Lightning Bolt, as well as much better variants of Shock. (Galvanic Blast, Burst Lightning, Staggershock, etc.)

The problem is, Chandra, Pyromaster is pretty much obsolete in a deck like that, as Koth of the Hammer is literally leaps and bounds better than her. Ajani Vengeant is also pretty far ahead of her in a deck like that.

Either way, is this something any of you would be interested in before I put in the hours of testing required? It might be a pretty good "
budget" option for a lot of you to get into Modern since you basically own all of the cards as it is.

[magicdownunder]

Please keep me informed about the Modern port, is YP$ even good in Modern? It just seem better to run Grims, DRS and GG with lots of burns.

[Alex]

Please keep me informed about the Modern port, is YP$ even good in Modern? It just seem better to run Grims, DRS and GG with lots of burns.

Yeah, Young Pyromancer is still pretty good. You get to shake away some of the bad cards that the list plays though, most notably Rakdos Cackler and Boros Reckoner, which are both pretty shitty at best. In their place you can play more spells, Lavamancers/Figure of Destiny, or even things like Midnight Haunting or Lingering Souls. There's always Goblin Guide too, but I'm not keen on him personally.

[Valdarith]

I think it's worth exploring. You can make a deck with quite a bit of value between YP$, Grim Lavamancer, and Koth. Agreed that Goblin Guide doesn't belong. In a deck that wants to eek out as much value as it can, he just doesn't mesh well.

[zemanjaski]

We are, but with Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow entering the format, its probably necessary (since either only buys them a single turn).

[Googims]

@Alex
I'd be very interested in a modern variant for red pyros
do you have a list brewed up already?

[warwizard87]

hurrm stumbled on a card that might be worth a look. Soul Tithe seems it might be a decent all purpose removal spell. thoughts?

[Alex]

@Alex
I'd be very interested in a modern variant for red pyros
do you have a list brewed up already?

We'll work on something either today (Thursday) or tomorrow when we meet up. So far we're already dead-set on 2-of Koth, 2-of Ajani Vengeant. The rest of the list is still in the air.

[Deht]

hurrm stumbled on a card that might be worth a look. Soul Tithe seems it might be a decent all purpose removal spell. thoughts?

I played a couple play testing games against a guy that ran that card as sideboard tech, he said it works great against gods and also against mono black. He said if he could drop it early (T4) on the first fatty in RG matchups it also disrupted their early game. I also saw someone running a mono white control type list where they used that and arrest and it was pretty hilarious.

[warwizard87]

that's nice, I been playing it a little bit it almost feels like a 5th chained to the rocks and seems like just a versatile card in general.

Also with u/w siding in archangels now, would keeping chained in after sideing goanna be a thing this deck is goanna have to start doing?

As for Born of the gods I cant seem to find any cards I want to play, seering blood is the most likely but I really can not seem to justify it, main deck the 12 burn is better. after side it cant replace mortars or ever 4 toughness guy becomes loss of card advantage, just dosnt seem to be anything in born for this deck at all.

[Alex]

So, this is what I ended up coming up with. I wanted to play Koth of the Hammer but I didn't think 11 Mountains was going to be enough to play him. I could see bringing him into the sideboard so that when you board in Blood Moon he becomes insane, but that's something to think about later.

For now, just a raw list that probably isn't good. The mana also isn't amazing, I think there should be some Stomping Grounds in there to play Back to Nature, but if that deck is a problem that's something I can deal with later as well.

Also Forked Bolt should probably be Burst Lightning, but I was playing against white weenie in testing so I played Forked Bolt instead to force him to have the [card]Brave
the Elements[/card] on my turn.

[deck]Bald Walter White[/deck]

[warwizard87]

hey guys been doing a bit of play testing with the new set, oddly enough I cnat really seem to find any of the new cards that fit well enough.

So here is the list I am playing atm. tell me what I am doing wrong.

[deck]4 Ash Zealot
4 Rakdos cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
2 StormBreath Dragon

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Shock
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Flames of the firebrand

4 Mutavault
4 Temple
4 Sacred Foundry
11 Mountain

sideboard

3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Boros Reckoner
2 SkullCrack
2 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Pithing Needle
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Pithing Needle[/deck]

been crushing MBC (main deck bile blights die board drown in sorrow) slightly favorable vs G/R monsters,( new zenegos and fanatic of zenagos/Courser of Kruphix ) unfavorable vs Mono Blue dev ( not many changes at all) vs U/W im having strange
results, ( the Gp winning list with slight changes in mana base, temples) pre side I went 7-3 post side 3-7 it boards in 4 archangel of thrun and 4 Solder of the Pantheon. This has been making the match up really hard. How can we deal with both archangel and the plainswalkers. any ideas?

[Guttler]

been crushing MBC (main deck bile blights die board drown in sorrow) slightly favorable vs G/R monsters,( new zenegos and fanatic of zenagos/Courser of Kruphix ) unfavorable vs Mono Blue dev ( not many changes at all) vs U/W im having strange results, ( the Gp winning list with slight changes in mana base, temples) pre side I went 7-3 post side 3-7 it boards in 4 archangel of thrun and 4 Solder of the Pantheon. This has been making the match up really hard. How can we deal with both archangel and the plainswalkers. any ideas?

What about Fated Conflagration? It will kill archangel even with 1 counter and it can kill Elspeth and Jace even after they +1. The problem is that with a RRR man cost is that it makes
mutavault a very unappealing card to draw in multiples, where it would otherwise be fantastic.

[warwizard87]

been crushing MBC (main deck bile blights die board drown in sorrow) slightly favorable vs G/R monsters,( new zenegos and fanatic of zenagos/Courser of Kruphix ) unfavorable vs Mono Blue dev ( not many changes at all) vs U/W im having strange results, ( the Gp winning list with slight changes in mana base, temples) pre side I went 7-3 post side 3-7 it boards in 4 archangel of thrun and 4 Solder of the Pantheon. This has been making the match up really hard. How can we deal with both archangel and the plainswalkers. any ideas?

What about Fated Conflagration?
It will kill archangel even with 1 counter and it can kill Elspeth and Jace even after they +1. The problem is that with a RRR man cost is that it makes mutavault a very unappealing card to draw in multiples, where it would otherwise be fantastic.

I considered it, but I was worried about how narrow it technically is, that said I suppose it it could also be good in the r/g or the g/w match up as well. The mana cost also worried me, worried that on turn 4 or 5 id be sitting on 2 vaults and 2 red sources going well this is awkward, will have to test though. What do you suppose the side should look like?

[Alex]

I would probably never play Fated Conflagration in any deck, that card is not even limited playable if we're being honest.

[magicdownunder]

So, this is what I ended up coming up with. I wanted to play Koth of the Hammer but I didn't think 11 Mountains was going to be enough to play him. I could see bringing him into the sideboard so that when you board in Blood Moon he becomes insane, but that's something to think about later.

For now, just a raw list that probably isn't good. The mana also isn't amazing, I think there should be some Stomping Grounds in there to play Back to Nature, but if that deck is a problem that's something I can deal with later as well.

Also Forked Bolt should probably be Burst Lightning,
but I was playing against white weenie in testing so I played Forked Bolt instead to force him to have the Brave the Elements on my turn.

[deck]Bald Walter White[/deck]

I'll remove the walkers, up the Shrine count and add some Searing Blaze (every deck in modern runs creatures).

[Alex]

Planeswalkers are good, Ajani is usually a Lightning Helix that Fogs, which is worth four mana. Chandra is how you have to beat control matchups.

Like I said, I played Forked Bolts for the matchup but they could be literally any number of things. Another Shrine, etc. I played +1 Staggershock, +1 Shrine after I removed them.

[Calamity]

You guys think this sort of deck will survive the removal onslaught of bile blight and drown in sorrow? I think if the deck was more burn oriented it could still work, however that will probably make it weaker to UWx control, which i predict will stay popular because of it's good matchup vs. monoblack (correct me if I'm wrong)

I think a URw variant with a creature suite of YP, oracle of bones, stormbreath, and chandra's phoenix with burn + thunder thighs could have legs. Jeff Hoogland posted an idea similar to this one here: http://themeadery.org/blogs/348/307/spoiling-the-bones.

I also just like the card Oracle of Bones for some reason, so it might be terrible.

[Alex]

I think Oracle of Bones is pretty sweet, but I think most of the time it will be a 5/3. Not bad for four mana, but without some kind of evasion or haste I don't know if that's good enough.

[Calamity]

a 5/3 runs over most of the stuff people are playing (besides G/R and even then it can kill some of their stuff)

i also admit that oracle of bones is a card i just subjectively like a lot, so i might be trying too hard to force it

[windstrider]

I think Oracle of Bones is pretty sweet, but I think most of the time it will be a 5/3. Not bad for four mana, but without some kind of evasion or haste I don't know if that's good enough.

Oracle of Bones has haste.

[Alex]

Oh yeah, you're right. I haven't memorized all of these cards yet.

[Jabberwocky]

SO apparently Satyr Firedancer was in several red decks (albeit burn) and it was touted pretty nicely. Any thoughts on (re)visiting it? Seems like it would work well especially considering the phoenix and 2-for-1 always seems nice. It's basically another burn card but on a stick as well so it can draw away creature kill at the same time from other sources.

[Alex]

I believe the original consensus was that it was dead draw when you were trying to find burn to win the game with. Might be a sideboard card for aggressive matchups where you need to shoot a lot of creatures.

[Valdarith]

It's more attractive when you're running cards that point to the dome to begin with. I don't like four because it's just so bad against control. I'm still not a fan of the card in general but if you build the deck around him he can work fine.

[amcfvieira]

If we build around the Firedancer with will be good, but I think maybe not enough for the standard meta. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking in test it in place of Boros Reckoner in my sideboard in monoblue matchup. If they domesticate the dancer they will no get any great value from that and if they don't domesticate it can have great impact in our play. I never board Reckoner against Mono Black or against Control. So my question is an firedancer be good against GR Monsters?

[Valdarith]

Firedancer was just okay against G/R Monsters. The problem is that they run so many 4+ toughness creatures which puts RW behind to begin with. Having Firedancer on board makes using two burn spells to kill one of their creatures more palatable because at least you're doing damage to the face as well. G/R runs no instant speed removal so you can point burn to the face without worrying about your Firedancer being taken out in response.

[amcfvieira]

This weekend I will test Satyr Firedancer and Searing Blood so 4 each main
The main idea is really testing this two cards. I'm thinking in something about this:

[deck]Creatures
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants and Sorcerys
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars

Lands
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 ?
[/deck]

What do you think?
Need some help to fill the 4
spots left in the sideboard.

[Helios]

Seems like we're all moving away from the one-drop list and towards a more burn-oriented build. Based on that, suggest -4 Cackler, +1 Hammer, + 3 Burn of Choice. I'm still a fan of Assemble in the SB as a 2 / 3 of.

[warwizard87]

This is what I have been testing and getting some pretty good results.

[deck]
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

3 Shock
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

4 Mutavault
4 r/w temple
4 Sacred Foundry
11 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fated Conflagration
1 Madcap skills
1 Assemble the legion[/deck]

couple of notes, Its a pretty stock list nothing really fancy just tried and true straight forward archtype. I have kept all the one drops main deck, i like having the oops I win factor game 1 if they don't know what deck im on with a lot of the faster draws the deck can have. I really feel like I want a 3rd dragon main deck but have no idea what I can cut to add a dragon and
a land I wish I could add half a dragon and half a land to get there but....well magic dosnt work that way =-/ trying to decide if I want to run 1-2 r/b temples just for the scry.

Im not a fan of seering blood, and yeah I was at one time but the more I looked at the card the less I wanted it I couldn't bring myself to ever cut any of the other burn spells, they just all felt better.

Fated Conflagration, yeah it seems like wtf am I doing, but it makes several match ups better I love it vs u/w it just kills a threat with out having to 2 for 1 myself. that had become a issue the fact ti kills elspath, jace, and the angel was a plus. and its not awful vs g/r since it kills the world eater dead at the same mana cost. also in a pinch in that match up it hits your own reckoner to lava ax your opponent for a win. (done this twice)

Madcap skills seems really awkward yes, however its ben a okay card vs mono blue, dropping it on a phoenix early is hard to deal with and it effectively kills a domesticate.

[BrainsickHater]

I played the same list that I used pre-rotation at FNM last week. MBC and BW Midrange were both intense matches, but were certainly winnable. I 4-0ed the night. I think that moving away from the one-drop plan kind of next levels them in the sense they board in Drown in Sorrow and we play fewer dudes that fall to it, but it also puts us more into fighting over resources in the late game which is really where they want to be.

[amcfvieira]

Seems like we're all moving away from the one-drop list and towards a more burn-oriented build. Based on that, suggest -4 Cackler, +1 Hammer, + 3 Burn of Choice. I'm still a fan of Assemble in the SB as a 2 / 3 of.

If I go big maybe is better 24 lands. Maybe more dragons and some Revoke Existence in sideboard.
With a plan like that what are the best approach to the Mono Black matchup? I'm usually play it the tinny creatures to put pressure. With fewer creatures, maybe the Stormbreath Dragon will be a dead creature when I cast it, because they will have more removal then targets. The same to Chandra's Pyromaster...
Need some help to construct a plan to beat Mono Black.
And Control, what will be the best way to deal with that?


@
BrainsickHater
Where can I see your list?

[Helios]

Skullcracks and 1-drops beat mono B (and Assemble if you board it in). Basically same thing with control really, + Stormbreath obviously. For more information about playing the matches on a broader conceptual level, read Z's mono red primer.

[amcfvieira]

I already read the primer...

I know that tinny creatures putting pressure + skullcrack and Chandra pyromaster win against Mono Black, but your advice before (for general purpose) was cutting the one drop. So after I cutting the one drop, how is a good plan to beat Mono Black? Win by burning him, killing the pack rats and waiting for assemble?

Against control Detention Sphere seems very good against our Assemble the Legion? Do we want assemble in that game?

[Valdarith]

You don't want Assemble vs UW. Blanked by DSphere and Jace.

[amcfvieira]

Maybe something like this:

[deck]Creatures
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants and Sorcerys
4 Lightning Strike
4 Searing Blood
4 Shock
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Boros Charm

Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Revoke Existence
2 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

The essential idea is testing Firedancer and Searing Blood, so This is the only card I know for sure will be 4-of . 4x Dragon is too much? Maybe cutting one for one Hammer? Maybe 1x Fated Confragration in 75 to test it too, nahh
Any constructive
comments will be appreciated

[BrainsickHater]

I've brewed up this list, it's certainly not perfect, but it might be in the direction that we want.

The idea here is that one-drops have just gotten more embarrassing. Our creatures are either for value (pyromancer, phoenix, and shaman out of the board), or excel in a control situation (zealot and dragon). Most of our maindeck noncreatures are adaptable to both situations where we're playing beatdown and situations where we're playing control; the exception being Hammer of Purphoros, which is there to shore up the control matchups since we have no one-drops.

Our plan against decks like MB and UWx control is to act like Head-On! and apply constant pressure (directly to the forehead), until we can finish the game with burn or they just run out of answers.

Our plan against most other decks is to play control. We burn everything they play while generating value with Pyromancer or applying beats with dragons. We
board in the firedancers, and all of a sudden we put the aggro decks in a position where our removal makes them worry about their life total; a position they can't win from.

About card choices:

Why I'm not playing Reckoner: Reckoner is great against aggro decks, hands down amazing. But it's not a card we want against control decks, and every time we bring it in against MU, it risks getting domesticated, which can be very difficult to come back from (especially since I don't know where to fit a sweeper in this list). Plus, most players will expect us to play Reckoner. I wouldn't be surprised if we can next-level some opponents and they end up holding key removal for too long because they're worried about a follow-up Reckoner. The bottom line is It takes four sideboard slots, which I think can be better spent on good threats against control. I think this iteration of PyroRed has much more difficulty with those matchups.

Pyrewild
Shaman: I think this could definitely be something different. I will probably put mizzium mortars in this slot. Mortars has been stellar from me and the only reason why it's not in this list is because I thought of it last for some reason. But I do like this card, it's rather adorable, and against removal-heavy decks being able to have 2 more recurrable threats seems good.

Numbers on the maindeck burn: These numbers are rather arbitray, but my thinking with 2-2 Searing Blood/Warleader's Helix is that they're both cards we want against aggro, except one can go to the face against control, and the other is cheaper and comes online earlier. We probably want some number of both, so might as well start here. About Fated Conflagration in the board: I think that UWx control might be one of the more difficult matchups, as D-Sphere and Countermagic can conceivably answer everything we play, plus Revoke Existence exists now. Fated Conflagration will give us something
more against their cards, specifically their planeswalker. Plus, if they're on the Archangel of Thune plan postboard, we need a way to stop that.

[deck]4 Lightning Strike
2 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ash Zealot
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault
13 Mountain
SB: 3 Skullcrack
SB: 2 Assemble the Legion
SB: 2 Chained to the Rocks
SB: 1 Rod of Ruin
SB: 2 Satyr Firedancer
SB: 2 Fated Conflagration
SB: 1 Chandra, Pyromaster
SB: 2 Pyrewild Shaman[/deck]

(Sorry if my formatting is bad, I'm new here)