[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

Moderator: redthirst

User avatar
Lightning_Dolt
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4739
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:45 pm


User avatar
Kaitscralt
A frog among toads
Posts: 21216
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 am

Postby Kaitscralt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:46 pm

can be blocked by mutavault or last breath'ed in combat, why bother. the lifebane thing is so random.
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

User avatar
Lightning_Dolt
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4739
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:51 pm

can be blocked by mutavault or last breath'ed in combat, why bother. the lifebane thing is so random.
It can't be last breath'd, can it? It's a 4/2...

Basically a 4/2 haste (easier to cast, not a lifebane target) vs a 4/4 haste (bigger, dodges Ultimate Price).

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:56 pm

Omfg, I just had to play against Rw Devo. Man, Blind Obedience is the fucking nuts. Ahahahahahahahaha
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:59 pm

I played my first match sitting next to Frank Lepore.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Lightning_Dolt
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4739
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:00 pm

who?

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:00 pm

Also, I've had people ask me about "dat Fazzolari list."
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:01 pm

He's the editor of TCG player.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Lightning_Dolt
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4739
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Lightning_Dolt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:03 pm

I see.

Jack
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2667
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 am

Postby Jack » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:05 pm

Got 3rd/4th at Game Day after beating the rest of the top 4 in the normal rounds, then getting beaten by my round 3 opponent; this little kid who couldn't remember his triggers, often forgot the rules, never expected removal, yet found 2 Brimaz by turn 4 in both games that he won :/
Image
Sig by NBW.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:06 pm

Those damn kids!
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

Jack
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2667
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 am

Postby Jack » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:16 pm

Yeah, it really sucks getting beaten by someone who played so badly. I think the kid might get pretty good, actually, since his parents seemed more than willing to buy him cards (full set of Voices, which I usually saw two of in the six games that we played, set of Brimaz, Archangel of Thune, kinda expensive mana base), and his dad seemed very confident in his knowledge of the rules (probably a judge), so the stuff with knowing the rules and remembering triggers will probably come to him in time. I'm still happy that I left with one more Thoughtsieze and 3 Pain Seers (the store owner was buying up the promos for $12), but upset that I wasn't just crowned the victor and given $45 store credit and a playmat when I was the only undefeated player going into the top 4.
Image
Sig by NBW.

Jack
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2667
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 am

Postby Jack » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:21 pm

I also heard a very important lesson about doing anything competitively from another player: If you get to the quarters or the semis or the finals and go into the match with an "I'm just happy that I got this far" mindset, you're really hurting your chances of succeeding. You have to first become comfortable with performing under pressure, and then realize that the pressure is on, and that you need to win this.
Image
Sig by NBW.

User avatar
Midnight_v
Regular Member
Posts: 250
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:08 pm
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth (Arligton)

Postby Midnight_v » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:38 pm

I also heard a very important lesson about doing anything competitively from another player: If you get to the quarters or the semis or the finals and go into the match with an "I'm just happy that I got this far" mindset, you're really hurting your chances of succeeding. You have to first become comfortable with performing under pressure, and then realize that the pressure is on, and that you need to win this.
I heard that same thing in wrestling tourney's growing up. Sometimes you're in the finals and or the semifinals, and you have to keep in your mind that you deserve to be there. That you've trained harder, and given more than those around you, all you have to do then is try harder, to give your all when it counts. Stay focused
on the things that matter in those crucial moments. Getting far enough is just a step. Winning is the end of the journey.
"All your passive
aggressive bullshit doesn't make you smart, it makes you an asshole." - Lightning Dolt

Image

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:49 pm

can be blocked by mutavault or last breath'ed in combat, why bother. the lifebane thing is so random.
It can't be last breath'd, can it? It's a 4/2...

Basically a 4/2 haste (easier to cast, not a lifebane target) vs a 4/4 haste (bigger, dodges Ultimate Price).
Can cast Last Breath in response to ETB trigger.
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
windstrider
Knight in Sour Armor
Posts: 1975
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:11 am
Location: Missouri

Postby windstrider » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:12 pm

Omfg, I just had to play against Rw Devo. Man, Blind Obedience is the fucking nuts. Ahahahahahahahaha
:confused2:

Is this the same Blind Obedience that certain people claimed sucked? ;-)
Searing Seneschal of Salvation

Image

Cogito, ergo incendo.

sig by NBW

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:13 pm

I'm so glad I'm rocking the singleton Mortars. I overloaded it to avoid dying in game 2 vs Rg Monsters. Had I not drawn it, I would've lost the round.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:13 pm

Omfg, I just had to play against Rw Devo. Man, Blind Obedience is the fucking nuts. Ahahahahahahahaha
:confused2:

Is this the same Blind Obedience that certain people claimed sucked? ;-)
I never said that. Lol
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Purp
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2063
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Postby Purp » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:35 pm

Went 7-3 to top 64 the open yesterday. I lost to a hexproof deck, GR(this guy got all 4 ghorclans in one game) and Esper (we got deck checked before and his deck turns out to be much better clumped up than mine). Overall it went well, a little dissapointed that I started out 6-1 only to finish 7-3. 10 rounds of magic is a lot, I was drained after.
Image

yurp yurp

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:50 pm

I'm going to write a Jund Monsters primer sometime this week for those interested. Hopefully it can increase traffic to the site. The one on MTGS is terrible.
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:53 pm

So much booze.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:04 pm

I lost to UW devotion. :(

Both games I just drew land in almost every draw step, despite Scrying 2 away. I hope this unfortunate run is over lol
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
jsilv
Regular Member
Posts: 169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:16 am

Postby jsilv » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:05 pm

Yay burn! Yay Zem!

Cutting Firedrinker is really interesting, card does a ton of work. Chained to the Rocks main doesn't surprise me, though the move back to 4 Shock disgusts me greatly. :P I'll give the new SB a shot, looks better than the old one vs. non Mono U creature decks.

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:05 pm

Well done Purp! Good result :)
Image
Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

User avatar
Kaitscralt
A frog among toads
Posts: 21216
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 am

Postby Kaitscralt » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:19 pm

can be blocked by mutavault or last breath'ed in combat, why bother. the lifebane thing is so random.
It can't be last breath'd, can it? It's a 4/2...

Basically a 4/2 haste (easier to cast, not a lifebane target) vs a 4/4 haste (bigger, dodges Ultimate Price).
not sure why i said the last breath thing, it is the same as firstblade in regards to the trigger. i was thinking of toughness in combat for some reason. :sleep:
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:24 pm

Yay burn! Yay Zem!

Cutting Firedrinker is really interesting, card does a ton of work. Chained to the Rocks main doesn't surprise me, though the move back to 4 Shock disgusts me greatly. :P I'll give the new SB a shot, looks better than the old one vs. non Mono U creature decks.
The Blind Obedience is really good. I actually like it jammed into the old sideboard. I'm not keen on cutting Firedrinker just yet.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

Postby LaZerBurn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:57 pm

Yay burn! Yay Zem!

Cutting Firedrinker is really interesting, card does a ton of work. Chained to the Rocks main doesn't surprise me, though the move back to 4 Shock disgusts me greatly. :P I'll give the new SB a shot, looks better than the old one vs. non Mono U creature decks.
The Blind Obedience is really good. I actually like it jammed into the old sideboard. I'm not keen on cutting Firedrinker just yet.
Agreed, I've worked in Blind Obedience but I'm awaiting Zem's wise words on the
rest on the changes 'cos I win nearly all my games with Firedancer and Sparky :)

In other matters I got my Firstblade stolen by a Lifebane so I'm cutting it for Skullcleaver; until it's 2 toughness upsets me when I will change back :)
Image
Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:13 pm

I beat uwr control 2-1. I boarded like this : -3 firedancer -3 shock -4 searing blood, +4 firedrinker +3 firstblade + 3 spark trooper. All aggro, all the time.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:21 pm

Ugh, there's nothing worse than getting hammered by Double Dragons and you're gripping 2 Chained to the Rocks.

I'm 3-2 now. I doubt I'll drop since I want to get a better feel for the deck.

Plus I'm now addicted to the feeling I get from landing a Blind Obedience and casting Shock as Lightning Strikes and getting in for huge with Spark Troopers.
Last edited by Khaospawn on Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Midnight_v
Regular Member
Posts: 250
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:08 pm
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth (Arligton)

Postby Midnight_v » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Hmm... how are you guys hosting your banners?
"All your passive
aggressive bullshit doesn't make you smart, it makes you an asshole." - Lightning Dolt

Image

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:25 pm

With my penis.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Self Medicated
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1650
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:49 pm
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Postby Self Medicated » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:37 pm

Photobucket...


With some help from Khaos...


And his penis.
Image
SM, you complete me. :love:

User avatar
redthirst
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4346
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:27 pm

Postby redthirst » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:39 pm

If you need it I still have plenty of room left on my penis for banner hosting.
Image
Originally posted by Dechs Kaison on MTGS
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.

Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.

Great guy to have around? Hell yes.
I love the D...

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:13 pm

They looked like KMC on camera, but I'm probably mistaken.
Orange Ultra Pros. Next time ill just use CFB ones.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
zemanjaski
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 11348
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Postby zemanjaski » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Omfg, I just had to play against Rw Devo. Man, Blind Obedience is the fucking nuts. Ahahahahahahahaha
:confused2:

Is this the same Blind Obedience that certain people claimed sucked? ;-)
I've always said it sucks in control but might be good in aggro.

Maybe I can run Imposing Sovereign? Beating in for two is nice but so is not dying.
Image
1 - Drunk, surly zem
2 - Nice, modest zem
3 - Bragpost zem
4 - Confident and funny zem
5 - Condescending jerk zem
6 - Self-aware zem
Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame,
Bona fide hustler making my name

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:22 pm

I got Z a present. Lol I can't wait to send it.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:22 pm

Hint : it is not sleeves.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:25 pm

Also, I name dropped Z to a guy next to me playing the CFB list card for card. I explained the tournament changes and hinted at the proposed list from earlier today after the guy complained about the RG matchup. He also saw me do great things with the Blind Obedience. Hopefully this chap will join our little outfit here.
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:34 pm

I did the same thing at the PTQ, Khaos. Someone I've known for awhile was running a similar list and admitted he based it off Zem's article.
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
Khaospawn
Khaospawn's beautiful and unique title
Posts: 9529
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Largo, Florida

Postby Khaospawn » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:38 pm

I keep getting asked if I'm running Brad Nelson's list. I just say, "no, I'm running the Thunder from Down Under list. " And then I namedrop James to make myself look awesome. (Because I'm nowhere near as awesome as James and everyone else here)
Image
In a pinch, Khaos' beard can help turn this around.
I rarely skip a Khaospawn wall of text because I know there is always piss at the end of the rainbow.


Return to “Fires of Salvation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests